HP Shooter

You must have nerves of steal to be able to shoot the Sako with out flinching. I would be afraid that piece of crap might blow up!! How can you make such a recommendation for someone to buy a gun that could blow up????

I can’t remember another gun maker having such a problems. That being said I shoot my Dads older Sako and have had no problems with it nice gun but it’s no better than the Weatherby that I own and not as accurate as the Weatherby’s either.

jorge, remember, I did say I owned a Howa. I also said that the only reason I sold it was because I wanted to free up some room and cash for a different rifle. The thing (30-06) shot like a house afire.

My issue has never been with the technical merits of the Howa 1500 design, or the Mark V design. It has always been with Weatherby's marketing.

quote:

Originally posted by joecool544:
HP Shooter

You must have nerves of steal to be able to shoot the Sako with out flinching. I would be afraid that piece of crap might blow up!! How can you make such a recommendation for someone to buy a gun that could blow up????

I can’t remember another gun maker having such a problems. That being said I shoot my Dads older Sako and have had no problems with it nice gun but it’s no better than the Weatherby that I own and not as accurate as the Weatherby’s either.

You are joking, right?

HP Shooter

It’s no joke when people get hurt!!!

HP Shooter

What is wrong with Weatherbys marketing as compared to other gun companies.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by joecool544:
HP Shooter

It’s no joke when people get hurt!!!

I've offered some opinions, based on over a decade of manufacturing experience, to explain why I would not hesitate to buy another Sako.

All you offer is emotionalism. I'm done here.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:
HP Shooter

What is wrong with Weatherbys marketing as compared to other gun companies.

Mike

I'm not going to argue that with you or anybody else.

HP shooter,

The problems with the Sakos is not the barrels but the fact that the actions fell apart, split in half.

As I previously mentioned there were full length splits from two of Australia's main barrel makers with steel/stainless being the problem and they did just what the Sakos did but it stopped at the action.

In reasonable assessment would be that the current Sako actions are very suspect and especially when one considers te cheapening of the action.

Mike

How is staing your opinion an argument. I assume by not liking their marketing you are indicating that what they say about thei rifle does not coincide with the truth.

Educate us.

Mike

Hp Shooter

All you offer is an opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter: “pyledriver, what happenned to Sako could happen to anyone, at any time. All it takes is your barrel blank supplier (or his bar stock supplier, or the mill) making a mistake to have that happen to Remington, Savage, Howa, Winchester, CZ, Sauer, you name it.

In fact, based on my over ten years in manufacturing, I can tell you that the chances of this happening to Sako again are far less than they would to another company where this hasn't hapenned.â€

Hypothetically yes, this could happen but the fact is that is has not. This kind of catastrophic failure where not only the barrel but also the whole action itself has had such a complete failure has never made it to market at this level. Another issue is how Sako handled this very dangerous problem. It took months before they would acknowledge there even was a problem and issue a recall. When the Vanguard had a small issue they immediately put out a recall and continued for at least 10 years.

quote:

Originally posted by joecool544:
HP Shooter

It’s no joke when people get hurt!!!

quote:

Originally HP Shooter: I've offered some opinions, based on over a decade of manufacturing experience, to explain why I would not hesitate to buy another Sako.

All you offer is emotionalism. I'm done here.

This is a little more than emotionalism. Here is some hard proof. How can you possibly endorse what could possibly disfigure someone for life???? Would you buy one of these for your niece? Would you let me buy one for you?

WOW! I've never seen ANYTHING like THAT! I've seen barrels split from obstructions and even bad reloads, but dang!

How many people were hurt and how many incidences were there?

I would buy a Sako if I could afford on.
Hell, I own a Tikka and they use the same barrels.

They know which rifles were affected and they will replace them.

I wouldn't hold Sako at fault for Beretta's crappy handling of the situation.

I think everyone should buy a Sako or Tikka, just check the serial numbers if they are stainless.

quote:

Originally posted by pyledriver:
WOW! I've never seen ANYTHING like THAT! I've seen barrels split from obstructions and even bad reloads, but dang!

How many people were hurt and how many incidences were there?

I have seen three reported blowups online. Calibers were 243, 7mm mag, and 300 winmag.
I believe they were all Finnlights, but might be wrong. The recall is for Tikka T3s also because the barrels in both brands are made by Sako.
Supposedly about 80 rifles were affected, but I have also heard that 3000 rifles were recalled.
The affected barrels were stainless. They switched the lube they use during the hammer forging process. The new lube caused hairline cracks along the entire barrel. You can't expect any reciever to hold up to the pressure of a centerfire rifle if the barrel has almost no strength.

Hey I would run right out and buy one of those pieces of crap not. This is totally un acceptable to me but if you what to blow your self-up go for it.

One of them is much worse than that picture...the action is split length ways into two separate pieces. The pictures are on a thread in this forum.

Mike

HP Shooter

With proof like those pictures I would think you were done too. Stick a fork in you man you are done.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
Weatherby has to charge more for a sub-MOA rifle, but Sako gives it to you standard.

Guess which one I've had and which one I won't.......

Perfectly said!

nevermind...not worth my time...

quote:

Originally posted by joecool544:
HP Shooter

With proof like those pictures I would think you were done too. Stick a fork in you man you are done.

Proof of what? Can you tell from those pictures WHAT caused that rifle to blow up?

Your argument is STILL a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by Fumbler:
nevermind...not worth my time...

Agree. I'm outta here.

quote:

Originally posted by Hired Gun:
Would you let me buy one for you?

PM me for the name and address of my FFL. I'll take their 80th Anniversary Model 75 if you feel particularly generous.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
Proof of what? Can you tell from those pictures WHAT caused that rifle to blow up?

HP, that’s just the stink about it. There was, NO REASON, for these failures. The majority of the blowups were with factory ammo. This is a modern firearm with advanced engineering and materials.

quote:

Originally posted by Fumbler: You can't expect any reciever to hold up to the pressure of a centerfire rifle if the barrel has almost no strength.

I do believe I can expect an action to hold up. They do all the time. I remember reading one time a test where every commercial action made was proof tested for the article to see if they were safe. All the rifles were loaded progressively hotter until they failed. Not one action at the time failed. Not even the slightest crack. Every single one blew the barrels eventually. Some took repeated firings with full cases of Bullseye loaded behind the heaviest bullet for the caliber fired into plugged and welded shut barrels. Ackley conducted similar tests with the actions available in his time and if I remember right none of them split the actions either.

On the boards, we all read of blown up guns from time to time including Mark V’s. All from plugged barrels and most of the time a new barrel and stock and they are back in action. One of those stories was of a Vanguard shooter that bought 300 WBY ammo for his 300 Winchester chambered Weatherby Vanguard. He had to beat the bolt shut with a piece of 2x4. On the 4th shot it finally locked the bolt shut and I believe it said it might have blown the magazine floor plate open. I forget most of the story but I’m sure some else here read it also and can quote it better. Long story short. The action held and saved the shooter. Point is; there is no excuse to split an action and release the bolt to come back on a shooter. I believe it is the duty of the factories to test the strength of their designs to see that they will stand up to a plugged muzzle. The cars we drive are all crash tested. Why not our guns?

For the record I have a Belgium built Sako Finnbear in 7Mag. My dad bought it new for $150 with a new Leupold Vari-X II 3x9 for $99. It has a unique 3 lug bolt that is of very solid design. It is a fair Sub Moa shooter with hunting loads and I have no question of my safety when shooting it.

HP, as far as sending you a new Sako, surely you recognized that it was a rhetorical question. If you truly have a death wish, I suggest you buy your own Sako and a couple boxes of factory ammo and go into the woods by yourself so you won't hurt anyone else that may be standing nearby.

quote:

Originally posted by Hired Gun:

I do believe I can expect an action to hold up. They do all the time. I remember reading one time a test where every commercial action made was proof tested for the article to see if they were safe. All the rifles were loaded progressively hotter until they failed. Not one action at the time failed. Not even the slightest crack. Every single one blew the barrels eventually. Some took repeated firings with full cases of Bullseye loaded behind the heaviest bullet for the caliber fired into plugged and welded shut barrels. Ackley conducted similar tests with the actions available in his time and if I remember right none of them split the actions either.

You're not getting what I am saying. If you had no barrel, or a barrel with no structural integrity (which was the case with Sako), then I don't think many actions (the actions themselves, take the barrel out of the picture) can withstand the pressures of a modern centerfire cartridge as big as a 243win or bigger. Rifle actions hold together because the majority of the pressure is contained by the barrel's chamber.

Okay. Chamber and thread up a barrel of balsa wood. Screw it into any commercially made action and fire at will. Sure the barrel would/may explode but I still beleive every commercially made action would be unscathed. The chamber is only into the front of the action 3/4 of an inch or so. I really doubt it would split the action. Once the barrel splits the pressure is immediatly released forward and away from the action. I agree the splitting barrel started the chain of events but I have seen other guns with blown barrels and the split never gets into the action. I agree that the weak barrel led to the split but the action should be designed to distort and stretch a bit before just giving it up. Just my thoughts. If I were a gun maker I would test every lot of weapons with a plugged barrel test. Blind, dismembered and dead customers are not repeat customers.

I do see your point. The new Reminton 710's with their pressed in barrels and the Stole aluminum actions prove that the action itself is a small factor in containing the pressure.

I forget now. Where were we going with this?

Oh yeah. Are Weatherby Vanguards Sub-Moa's any good? I think they are a bargain.

quote:

Originally posted by Hired Gun:

I forget now. Where were we going with this?

haha, we're going nowhere.
This thread went to the crapper a long time ago.

Just wanted to say though, other guns that have blown up because of bore obstructions obviously didn't have the defective Sako barrels in them. There's a big difference between a good barrel and those defective Sakos. Those Sako barrels had hairline cracks along the entrie length because of the manufacturing process. If you plug up a good Sako and fired it I believe the only messed up part would be the barrel. The actions themselves are just as strong as other modern actions on the market.