I usually try accuracy loads just because I enjoy shooting with quality match bullets. And also have hunting loads like yourself. I think most people do it this way. Your not alone.

Unless I was working off a crop permit and clearing out loads of doe, I have really not felt the recoil of any gun while in the field. I am usually too excited and concentrating on the animal. I can't imagine why some people would flinch in the field.

As to the other posts, my great grandfather used to tell me: "Son, have you ever looked down and wondered what ants was thinking of you." I said no, and he said "because they are ants and ain't worth your time."

I shoot a 338 Ultra (as well as an 8 Mag, 375H&H, and 416 Rem.) and use only the full power loads.

No, I don't enjoy pain.

My reasoning is that (A), I don't want to bother with two or more loads for the same gun, and (B), I want the rifle to shoot the same wheather I'm shooting at a distant elk or a distant paper target or a distant cow chip. One trajectory for any one gun is enough.

If you get up from the bench, and shoot from field positions, the recoil really isn't an issue.

Joe.

[ 06-07-2002, 18:27: Message edited by: JMac ]

Funny "BigCountry", I never attacked you, just pointed out your original self-serving BS statement. Couldn't handlle being called on it, could you? You went on the offensive attacking me.

You've never answered the question either... what's the weight of your 338 UM and is it braked? There's absolutely no way you can make that statement and have much experience with anything that goes bang. I've owned and loaded for over forty different centerfire rifles from the 223 to the 416 Rem, and, unlike you, am over forty years old. Regarding the 338 Ultra, if you can't shoot something to near perfection off the bench, it'll show up in the field... unconcious "flinch" etc. But with all your experience I'm sure you know that. And, BTW, I never said you couldn't shoot your's well... however, still waiting to hear about weight and muzzle-brakes.

Send all the offensive, crude e-mails you want... you're still over-compensating for something...

Like my original statement, I'm all for anyone shooting whatever makes them happy, just don't make ridiculous statemnts and not expect to get called on it.

Boy, where to start. Let see, I own both of these offerings. I think they both have there disadvantages and advantages. One as a long range Elk rifle and the other as an excellent black timber rifle. Long range meaning past 450 yards, for the Ultra. Should that kind of shooting be done? To each his own. Recoil. Now that is another matter.My ultra has significantly greater recoil shooting from the bench. I can't say that after 15 rounds with 225 bullets and 90 Grs of RL22 that I just want to keep shooting. I do like the accuracy of the ultra. It is far more accurate as a factory rifle than my winnies. Someone mentioned that you don't have to load this to the max and you can load it to 338 Win velocities. Good point. So it is really a matter of want,not need. Both are great cartridges. Now a couple of other points, B.C., if I come down there, can you show me where I can find some of those simple deer that you mentioned in your post, as opposed to the real smart ones. Also I don't know where you get your info Mister, But I didn't even know Brad liked womens panties. Steve Hanson

Steve, LittleCountry is fixated with pricks, panties and the like... I'm telling you, there's a compensation thing going on here! I logged on hoping to glean more of grandad's pearls O' wisdom... man, am I disappointed!

Also, I appreciate your candor regarding the Ultra's recoil. We both love the 33's and have talked quite a bit on the phone about them. You're a big son-of-a-gun and if that thing slaps you around, imagine what it does to a 5'10" squirt like me!

October is coming my friend... there's a big 6x6 with your name on it down in CO!

Brad

LittleCuntry, didn't think I'd hear back with an honest answer... I'll assume 10.5 lbs, 26" barrel and a brake. Second thought, maybe no brake.

This is becoming a very interesting post. Now let me throw a little more fuel on the fire. I was talking to a friend earlier about the 338 ultra, and he seems to think that compared to his 338-378 weatherby,it is a waste of time. By the way I have shot his weatherby once, didn't much care for it my self, it did have the brake on, he offered to take it off to let me see what a "real gun" was like , I declined. At what point do we reach a point of diminished returns?? I like big guns but what is the point??

Zedman and Mike 375...
It is many years since I quit using "plinking loads" or practicing loads with light bullets in my rifles. I train and hunt with full house loads, usually Hornady bullets for traing and Nosler PT or Swift A frames for hunting.

One of the reasons is that I�m a bit lazy and hate the thought of making an assortement of different loads in every caliber.
For me two loads in each caliber ( one for training and one for hunting ) is enough to fuss around with.
And as a rule, I prefer heavy for caliber bullets.

Brad, lets take this offline when I am able to come to bozeman or your able to come to appalacha. Either way, this is going to happen. This is no place to keep this up and ruin this board and I tried to make private by email but you insist on keeping this here. Hell, I even gave you my address. To the rest of you on this board, sorry to waste your time with this garbage. It was a simple question this man asked, and I just gave my experience. The man pointed out that recoil don't bother him. I mean look at these clips of these guys shooting these monsters on this board. They ain't know bruisers either, but you don't see them complaining. Hell, you even see Saeed coming back for two more shots without hesitation. There is people that likes the feel of a big gun. Instead of sending a reply that you disagree with bigcountry, you had to use phrases like utter nonsense, and hogwash. Little tip that a 40 year old should know: If you give replies like that you will always get people on the defensive, guaranteed everytime. And from the emails sent by other members to me, you have a history of these offensive aggressive posts. There is a huge difference in calling someone on it and blasting them. I said "if you can shoot he 338WM, you can shoot the Ultra". Yes, it is a step up, no doubt about it. But I am very antibelt on rounds below the 338 range. So duh, what am I going to pick.

Steve, you need to come down to North Carolina and get in on these crop damage permits. Simple deer are everwhere. I eat tenderloin almost every night. Last year, me and 6l friends went down there for a farmer and I got 6 deer in two days. If you don't mind long range shooting. Only problem is you can't be picky, if the farmer sees that people are passing on does, he won't let you hunt. So after putting all these rascals on the trailer (12 foot trailer), the next morning, we looked out the field and saw 20 more deer just standing there. We didn't put a dent in them. I would invite you but I am the stranger here being invited by a friend. And no there is no shortage for volunteers. As far as the panties is concerned, is a decently common phrase here in Eastern KY, which translated, means you got to quit being a girl about an issure. No, nomore wisdom from my gramps. I think I will start to follow his advise about wasting my time.

As to your answer, which I wasn't aware I was required had to anwser all your questions which I don't cause I don't have to over compensate by using a gun to kill elk. And I don't have nothing to prove to a bunch of people that I have never met anyway and probably never will. I am very antibrake but don't put down someone for using them. I think they got there place for somepeople, just not me. Just makes it difficult at the range to get into that consentration mode with someone beside you firing off a 7mmSTW with a KDF brake. (This happens to me every week at the range by the same joker). He gets a kick out of it. The weight you guessed is about right, with a 700reciever and #6 contour 26" barrel. I feel steadier in the field off hand with a heavier gun. I like the feel of a heavier gun and I don't like junk synthetic stocks or wood. But my guns makes it a pain in Newfoundland after a 10 mile day. I ain't the best shot in the world but demand any gun under the 35 zone get subMOA and unfortunately pay out the wazoo to get this accuracy and sometimes still don't succeed. I am 10 times more of a bowhunter than a shooter and spend 10 times the time practicing that instead. Just appeals to me better and I don't like alot of people in the woods.

[ 06-11-2002, 00:23: Message edited by: bigcountry ]

Brad - I don't think Hanson can find his way out of Minnesota let alone find a 6x6 bull in Colorado! Besides, he only has a skin-head tag, maybe he will measure the distance between her ears - if we let him out of the tent! His elk huntin' buddies tell me that they call him Cookie and he is seldom far from the tent! Not a good thing..........and don't get him going on panties either! I think he mumbled something about the color pink this morning on the phone. He also confided to me the fact that his Red Rider BB gun punishes him, even with a sissy pad on it.

All funnyness aside, I think his Ultra's have knocked a few screws loose.

Excuse me, EXCUSE ME, Stand back everybody, I will handle this one. Are you the Guy who offered to sell me his ultra"it just kicks too hard" mag last week? And you want to poke fun at a guy with a Red Rider BB gun. At least I can handle the recoil. Are you the same Guy who wanted to know if I slept on my stomach or back when I go hunting? And then you send me that video with the cow elk on it, I don't think it is legal to have sexual contact with animals like that, even if you were standing on a stool. So much for a loose screw. So listen up Mister, get a muzzle brake on that gun of yours and leave me alone. Steve Hanson

See, whad' I say! Mention the word panties and the subject matter just falls with Hanson......... Send a guy an elk hunting video and he wants to be the star! Ok Steve, we'll let you stand on the stool this year . Just make sure you can shoot straight when she comes in to your call, you never know what she might want if you miss! Oh and Cookie, I like my eggs easy over in the morning !

Hey, I have a question! Can you shoot those Ultra's accurately with your dishpan hands ?

As everyone knows, these forums are not moderated, in fact I asked Saeed to change the title from forum moderator to forum leader, and I take that title very loosely, heck I just happen to be fond of medium bores and suggested the forum, that's how I was nominated to head it.

Sticking with AR policy, if you wish to make a fool of yourself, you are free to do it , and for all the world to see. All I ask is that folks try to stay on the topic of medium bores, more or less. I see no need or benefit of personal attacks or name calling.

One of the interesting things for me about this thread, and there have been a few 338 Win Vs 338 Ultra threads on different forums, is that we do not see the counterpart with a 375 H&H Vs 375 Ultra. Yet the case capacity and velocity comparisons are almost identical.

Mike

Paul: It may also be that the .338WM users use their .338's to kill game within those typical 300 yards, while the .338RUM hunters may take long-range shots. I could be wrong, of course, but I hear that in some western states a great number of elk hunters take long shots, and the .338RUM can wallop game at quite a long distance. But in here (Alaska), such shots are very rare. In fact, it is not a bad idea to have a low-power scope for up-close work, too.

Mike: An argument can be made about the .375 H&H and the .375 RUM, but you must take into account that the .338's are very popular when compared to .375's. The bigger the .338 crowd, the more arguments.

I agree with you that there is no need for the insults above, but I will disagree with you about the "BC and SD" view of the .338 users. The BC and SD of .33 bullets is just data that can be useful during reloading and ammo testing at the range, and useful for long-range shooting (BC). Those facts alone are not enough to create the arguments we see above. The insults are more of a lack of maturity. Perhaps some of us are much older than one or two from the rest, and there is where the problem is.

[ 06-12-2002, 07:01: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

Paul - I'm going to make the assumption here that you are refering to my two posts to Steve Hanson as being personal attacks upon him. So that you and the rest of the world know, Steve and I are friends who talk on the phone a few times a week about hunting and shooting. We became friends through this forum because of our mutual interest in elk hunting and .338 caliber rifles. Also, Steve and a few of his friends will be joining me this fall to hunt elk together here in Colorado. I can't imagine that chidding a friend about being the camp cook called "Cookie" or "being someone who does not stray far from the tent" would offend too many people or be considered immature. Especially in light of the funny faces in the second post. We seen that some people were having a little "tussel", so we tried to lighten this thread a little. I know Steve and I laughed about the posts and I hope everyone else now understands the "inside" jokes between friends .

Guy,

I hope you won't be offended by the following comments from my previous post: "The insults are more of a lack of maturity. Perhaps some of us are much older than one or two from the rest, and there is where the problem is."

I am old fart, and long ago I learned that young and old don't agree all the time, in part because in difference in life experiences. I think of the numerous times that I would not agree with my Father, but long ago I had no idea why I had to disagree.

You sounded much older in your last post!

Ray,

I think there might be some truth in what Paul sys about BCs etc. and 338 bore and possibly because 338 is seen as the end of the smaller bore. It is certainly marketed in the same rifles as the 270 Win/300 Win etc.

In Australia there are heaps of blokes using 338 and up for blasting pigs and roos and so on. I have noticed people with 338s, and this applies to me when I tried them, tend to me more concerend about BCs etc. But with a 375 a few round nose 270 Hornadies etc. are fired off at the range and it is cup of tea and a smoke time.

The Hornady agent out here sells piles of the 220 grain Hornady Flat nose bullet (and I can assure you they are not going in 375 Winchesters) and 270 grain round noses but the 200 grain Flat Nose 338 and 250 Hornady round noses don't move. So it is a mental thing or "cartridge personality"

Mike

Paul, my apologies to you and the board members. I shouldn't post late at night when I'm worn out from work as I'm entirely too blunt.

However, I never attacked "bigcountry", just commented on his comments. He started the name calling on the board and via e-mail. To be sure, I could have been "softer" in my initial remarks regarding his post. I owe no apolgy to him however, as I stand my my contention (and am more convinced) that his remarks were not meant to bring any honest clarity to the subject, but rather toot his own horn, etc. Hell, anyone can shoot an eleven pound rifle accurately no matter what it's chambered for (nearly).

Regarding the 375's, I think Ray is spot-on... more of us shoot them here than the 375's. The average 375 owner has it in his collection as a "nostalgic/novelty item" or for the "Big Trip To Africa." The 338's actually get used. I'm under no delusion however, I think the 375 has a game-killing edge. But, for the game these rounds are actually used for in the US (primarily elk and moose) this "edge" is useless, wasted or unapparent. Also, as Mike and I have discussed, the average 375 is considerably heavier than the 338 WM's. Why this should be I don't know as I find the 375 very shootable even when light. My personal love for the 338 WM comes from my use of it on elk. It just seems to put them down a bit faster and with more authority. I'm personally not in love with ballistic charts, SD's, BC's, etal. I just like stuff that works and the 338 WM does. For its power, it's a mild-mannerd and efficient cartridge that was (seemingly) heaven-sent for dead-serious elk hunting. Especially in the grizzly country I usually chase elk in!

BA

Is the the character of a .338 cartridge that causes many of it's owners to be concerned with b.c. s and sectional density ; or is it the character of many of the shooters who select a .33 bore to be concerned with b.c.s and sectional density ?

[ 06-12-2002, 18:24: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

SD, that's a a good question. I think most .338 shooters fundamentally believe in bigger, heavier bullets for big animals, pure and simple. These guys (and I'm one of them, only not as fanatical as some) are likely to want all of the SD & BC that they can get.

Even amoung diehard .338 (all versions) fans, however there isn't exactly a uniform philosophy about what sort of bullet weight is best for all-around use. For example, Bob Hagle was a staunch .340 WBY. fan, and he was big on the 210 gr. Nosler. Jim Carmichel has used, almost exclusively, the 250 gr. Nosler Partition in the .338 Winchester for just about everything. I'm not sure which bullet weight Jack Atcheson prefers, but I've heard him talk about 250s and 210s on more than one occasion.

Maybe, just maybe, the best .338 bullet of all might prove to be the 230 gr. Winchester Fail-Safe........

AD

sdgunslinger,

Are you trying to get banned

I am not sure of the car situation in America so I have to use the Australian situation.

In Australia 375 shooters drive V8s and 338 shooters make a calculated decision for one of the warmed up 6 cyclinders

An interesting question would be "If Ruger in their Express rifle chambered 338, would anyone buy it". Another question, if the Model 70 in blue/walnut cost the same in 338 as 375, would anyone buy the 338.

Mike

sdgunslinger,

Just had a thought. When you come down to Australia and we take you out shooting, will you be choosing the high sectional density 250 grain 338 or the 300 and 400 grain 458s

I am not sure what you will choose for the first day but I am certain of what you will choose from the 2nd day Can you drink scotch from a moving vehichle and are you happy to use the reloading gear on the vehichle. If so, make your plans to come down.

Mike

I guess the question now is "Why pick the .338WinMag ? "I believe fatter bullets upset better,.338WinMag is an efficent cartridge,the 10grs over a .338.06 gains about 200fps,the next 10grs for a .340Weatherby gains only about 100fps,it doesn't have the minimum distance problems on moose of the high velocity 300 magnums and with the 225gr it has the same trajectory as a 180gr 30.06,flat enough.

Allen

Bob Hagle praised the 210 gr Nosler to the skies but I never saw him knock the 250 either . He did seem to prefer the flattest possible trajectory.

Lot's of people seem to love that 210 Nosler .

Mike

Being a mid western , working class sort of person , I would pass on the scotch for my moving vehicle drinking and take bourbon or Bush Lite if available . But I am not at all picky .

As for using the reloading gear at hand , my present setup probably looks like it's already been in a moving vehicle . Ha

For your control shooting , I would likely try out my .35 Whelen . My theory is the .35 cal. represents a threshold of bore size that gets you most of the killing power of the .375 and betters that of the .33 calibers . Maybe we could put that to the test . For a second weapon , if it were possible and legal , I would take my scoped FNFAL loaded with ballistic tips . It should be the berries for multiple moving targets .

[ 06-12-2002, 20:18: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

Paul, I probably should let this die its own death, but what the hell.I know you weren't talking explicitly about Guy and myself in reference to your comments about name calling on the thread, but come on. Did you notice Big Country's last post to Brad." Let's take this offline when I come to Bozeman or you come to Appl. either way this is going to happen." Gee, I wonder what that meant? In my world, that is kind of a veiled threat. Then BC hints that a some guys are e-mailing him off line saying things about Brad. Golly, what will Brad do if some people don't like him? As Guy said, we posted to lighten things up, I have read a lot worse on this board. I think the measure of someone is when you can disagree about an issue and still not call names. When the insinuation that you might come almost all the way country to settle this, get a life. BC, if you don't like this, tough shit, you wrote it. Steve Hanson

[ 06-12-2002, 22:27: Message edited by: Steve Hanson ]

sdgunslinger,

The 35 Whelen would be excellent. Blowup bullets are the best as we are not interested in blood trails etc. In fact I suspect with blow up bullets the 35 Whelen will give the best combination of squat down power and recoil.

Out where we will be shooting a semi auto and legality will not be an issue but you can't use it to shoot the black fellas.

Only reload ammo with day shooting. Night time you have the ammo ready. In the spotlight ranges look much greater than they are. 99% of shots will be less than 200 yards with most at under 150 yards.

Mike

OK Mike , how many thousand rounds of Whelen should I bring , or maybe the question should be , how many rounds would the Aussie govt. LET me bring ? Maybe a .44 mag hand gun in the duffle bag too ?

I can see why you would like the softer bullets for your shooting . But such bullets could fail miserably for our elk hunters here , It is a different ball game ........

[ 06-13-2002, 00:47: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

sdgunslinger,

If were coming down, you would work up your load with one of the Hodgdon Extreme powders or Wichester powders since they are both here and then load them up out here.

I agree with your statement on Elk. The biggest difference here is that you don't have everything tied up around a single animal. I would say that in general Australian shooters prefer as many drop downs as possible out of 10 rather than a degree of success on all 10 when using larger calibers, say 270 and up.

Actually, the average Australian shooter uses a much smaller caliber for the same size game than the American. For example, if we take pigs and goats which we both shoot in both our countries, it is very common for Australians to use the 223 or 22/250 and even 22 magnum. If he uses the 308 then 130 grain Speer hollow points will be used a lot. In fact the company that makes the Hodgdon Extreme powder, Australian Defence Industries, makes a copy of the 130 Speer and loads it for culling ammo.

The closest thing we probably have to your Elk hunting is for Sambar deer, which might weigh 600 pound or more and are shot in very heavy scrub country and you have to be a true hunter to even see one. Shots are frequently taken at the arse end and calibers like 338 with 250s, 375 with 300s and 458 with 500s are commony used. Also used a lot is your favourite, the 35 Whelen.

Mike

Mike,

Do you reload while shooting??

I just make sure I load heaps and heaps before I go away. I also take 2-3 cases of AAA's we do a lot of shotgunning from the back of the ute. I would hate to have to load while out shooting. How do you keep everthing (dies and stuff organised setup etc.)

My theory on .338's is they belong in tactical/longrange heavy barreled stuff. I have ordered a .338 Lapua Mag which should be here by the year end to try my hand at the long range stuff. But for regular shooting I would take the .375 any day, that is why I must get one when the cash supply increases.

PC,

I take maybe a 100 loaded rounds with me and lots of cases. These will likey be some load that works acuracy wise and with some load or bullet I want to try. For example, next time I am away the new 225 Hornady Spire 375 will probably be the bullet loaded and to perhaps about 2700 or so.

When I or we arrive, after a cup of tea with property owner etc. I set up my presses in one of their big sheds which is about 6 mile from teh homestead. I have two presses mounted on a bord and powder measure. I use one press to resize and one to seat. I also also set up targets at 100, 300 and 500 yards. In short the paddock is about like a rife range. If we drive out a fair bit by day I take another press and a couple of seating dies and powder measure and primed cases. In variably this will be to try different bullets.

By the way, when I go to the range I load there and almost never have loaded ammo, not even resized cases.

Mike

PC, What sort of gun is the 338 Lapua.

Mike

Finland? I believe uses it as a long range sniper round. There are a number of rifles chambered for it, the Sako TRG-42, the AR-30 (I forget the manufacture), etc. Here's a link to the sako site, just click on the TRG link.

http://www.sako.fi/

E-gads, too many posts for me to respond to. As Mike knows, I'd be the last one to ban anyone. I also have no problem with friendly jabs, and certainly didn't see the posts as such, but since I don't know the posters, didn't realize that.

The point I'd tried to make about what I percieve about 338 shooters, and this isn't meant as an insult, is that they really wish they were shooting a bigger bore, like a 35 or a 375, but since they aren't, they have to compensate by sighting bc's, sd's and drop charts. I don't want to get into the argument, as this will become a matchking thread

I wouldn't say that most 375's are kept in the rack, and only taken on special hunts. They may not be as plentiful as the 338's in the US, but I know many of them are used frequently and hard. I also believe that most of the serious 375 users don't get hung up by the #'s, they know what they have works, and see no benefit to a bigger case.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike375:
(sic)

In Australia 375 shooters drive V8s and 338 shooters make a calculated decision for one of the warmed up 6 cyclinders

(sic)

---

Agreed!

Mike375: Even here in the US .338 round-nose bullets don't sell. For some reason American shooters feel that round- nose bullets are not very accurate past 300 yards (the usual hunting range), or that they shed velocity at a faster rate than spitzer. Once those ideas grow in buyers minds, bullets sale drops and manufacturers stop producing them. But since the game we hunt can be easily dropped with a spitzer (or semi-spitzer such as an A-Frame), most of us end-up using these. Besides, we feel that a pointed bullet can be delivered way out there should the need arrive, so at least to a great number of shooters that's a plus.

I would be perfectly happy with a 200 or 250-grain round-nose bullet for my .338, but it is rare to see any of them in the stores around town.

Americans are very interested in ballistics, and I don't think the trend is going to stop. Long range hunting and shooting is here to stay regardless of how a feel about that. As soon as one gets interested in long range shooting, shooting matches, etc., hunters and shooters will take BC and SD into account. It just happens that .33 bullets have high BC and SD. The high BC is because a great number of long range shooters want as much of it as possible -for all calibers (there is a whole bunch of them using Match King bullets during competitions).

Of two "hunting" bullets of the same weight, the one with the greater BC can travel faster and flatter if shot out of the same barrel. To me that's not important at all, but SD is. With a little case the size of a .30-06's, my .338WM can push a 225 to 300-grain bullet through moose and other game I hunt with great ease. That's very important to me for my type of hunting, because I know very well that of two similarly constructed bullets the one with a higher SD has the potential of penetrating deeper. I want bullets that are capable to create two holes, one on the way in and the other on the way out.

Summary: Most (not all) American hunters (hunting in the US) prefer bullets that can be used within those 300 hunting yards, but at the same time like the added advantage of being able to take a much longer shot should the need arrive. Also, some shooters often want to shoot even farther than the average hunter and shooter, and there is where the .338RUM, .338-378, .338 Lapua, .33 Lazzeroni, .330 Dakota, and a few other .33's come into play. The high BC of .33 bullets is even more useful to long range shooters.

[ 06-13-2002, 07:53: Message edited by: Ray, Alaska ]

Ray,

I am not convinced that mid weight spitzers fired from quick twists for the caliber always demonstrate a higher ballistic coefficent.

I have shot 375 270 grain Hornady Spire Point and Round Noses side by side in the field.

Sometimes I feel the spitzer gets a bit of a wobble up and that would wipe a lot of BC off the bullet. Several years ago in avery accurate 308 with 1 in 10 twist I was shooting both 125 Sierra and 130 Speer Hollow points. The Sierra has a far higher BC the bucket point Speer. At 100 yards both bullets would group on top of each other and form a composite group of around 1/2" Both were loaded with 52 grins of 748 which did a bit under 3000 f/s

Both bullets were fired at a cliff face about 400 yards out and the Sierras fell more than the Speers. W put the rifle back on the 100 yard target to check there had been no change in point of impact and there had been no change.

Perhaps another reason you see more people load blunter bullets in 375 is that they look good and also look "right". But they look kind of silly and wrong in a parallel necked down case like 7m Rem or 338 etc.

Mike

Paul - I have to disagree with you regarding your idea that 338 shooters wish they were shooting a larger 35 or 375. I know your comment was a harmless poke and I take it as such. We live in an era of excellent 35 and 375 caliber bullets being manufactured by almost all the major bullet companies in many new weights. But it wasn't always this way. Back in the 70's (yeah, I'm old!), I wanted to shoot a big 35 with a good 250 grain bullet, based upon the 8 mag case. I thought a 250 grain 35 caliber driven at 2900 fps would be the best elk medicine ever invented. But there just weren't many good 35 caliber bullets around back then, that could stand up to that kind of velocity and make good penetration on the big stuff. It didn't take a rocket scientist to see the 338 caliber had by far the best selection of bullet weights and styles. It also helped that Elmer Keith and Bob Hagel were singing the praises of the 340 Wby and the 338 Win too. These factors were the primary drivers in my selecting the 338 bore for thumping big bulls in the timber, way back then. I will say that, had I started this hunting stuff in this day and age, with all the good calibers and bullets currently available, I probably would be carrying around a 358 STA and knocking off elk right now.
But, I'm a loyal old dog and my 338's have never let me down. Old habits are hard to change.

Mike the Rifle will be an AR-30M made by Armalite, it is a bolt repeater with a scaled down AR-50 break and a skeletal metal stock.

My best mate and I have both ordered one, it is supposed to be shipped by spetember. That is why I can not get my .375 H&H yet. The .585 and the .338 LM will keep me fairly cash strapped.

Mike I could not stand having to load in the field I just like to shoot. I just try and take double what I wil need to ensure I do not run out. I sought of choose one load for each of my guns and just stick to it for simplicity. I just like to have different guns instead of different loads.

I liken shooting to golf, different guns/clubs needed for different shots I can't wait to use my new .585 pitching wedge

The ultimate off the back of the ute gun for me would be that Drum fed shotguns you Americans are allowed to have called the "Street Sweeper" I would love one of those baby's for the type of shotgunning we do. Tweleve rounds of AAA's would be awsome of the back of the truck.

Are you still allowed to have them there?? who makes them are they good quality??