These two rifles are quickly becoming my two favorites for African hunting. I used this pair on my safari last year with Andrew on Royal Kafue. The previous year I used a 338 WM & 404 Jeffery that worked well for me also.

In the past, I have used a 458 Lott and 375 H&H, a classic pair. As I get older, the reduced recoil of the 358W and 404J appeals to me more and more.

Anyway, my question concerns the myth I heard a long time ago concerning the headspace of the 35 Whelen, which said the shoulder angle was too small, and therefore the 'problem'.

I had asked a couple of gunsmiths about this situation years ago, and they reassured me that the shoulder angle was fine. I haven't thought about this more for many years. Well, today I looked up the shoulder angle of my 404 Jeffery and I see it is about an 8 degree angle. The 35 Whelen is about 17 degrees, about twice as big. I have never heard or read about the 404 Jeffery having this problem. It has served many hunters and government scouts successfully for over a century, since about 1904.

So, question: does anyone know where this headspace 'problem' with the 35 Whelen began? What am I not understanding? I'm sure there must be some history here.

Thanks for any enlightenment!

I too have read about the Whelen having too little shoulder to headspace properly. I have no idea who started it or when but, I'll just say I've built a least six rifles in that caliber and not one has had a problem. If it were a problem would Remington have standardized it? No.

Quit worrying, go shoot it.
Doug

It started when it was a "wildcat" and as such there were a number of chamber reamers and people cutting different length sloppy chambers. Never a shoulder issue, just a sloppy chamber issue.

I've reloaded for three different 35 Whelens. Two custom jobs and a Rem 700, never had any headspace issues. After the first firing I set the die to barely touch the shoulder, and have shot many head (maybe 25) of african plains game with 225 gr TSX and Reloader 15 at 2625fps Duiker to eland, it was a good load. Today I've settled on 250gr partitions out of a custom 338/06 at 2450fps. Results are pretty close to the Whelen. Though if I was honest, I think the Whelen hit just a touch harder.

Like previously mentioned, the headspace issue happened in its early life and the concern is still being spoken about.

This issue was thoroughly put to bed by the late, great, Michael Petrov. It basically stems from Griffin and Howe not broadcasting their "secret sauce" and what, exactly they were doing.

You can read the whole saga here:
400 Whelen

I think that applied more to the 400 Whelen, which has almost a ghost shoulder.

Thanks everybody for the great information!

As was stated earlier it's a sloppy chamber issue, not a shoulder issue. I have both the 35 and the 400 Whelen and played with the 375 Whelen for a time. None have ever had a headspace issue. I firmly believe the only real "headspace" problem with any small shouldered cartridge exists between the ears of some shooters.

35 whelen never had an intrinsic headpsace design issue, . though some reamers/implementations may have had errors ---

excellent round, and factory stuff is way under potential

I figured out many years ago that a 404 and a .338 Win couldn't be beat, no way, no how..

The 35 Whelen is a fine round, but its not as good as a .338, not on paper and not in the field, but it'll do, same for the 9.3x62 and the .375 H&H. match any one of them with a 404 and your good to go..

Me? I stick with the 404 and 338 Win., even though I have a 35 Whelen, a .375 H&H, and a 9.3x62, but when push comes to shove and at the last minute and I'm off to Tanzania to hunt buffalo et al. its that combo that lets say "usually" goes with me and I keep a few solids for my .338 handy, just in case. Its actually a decent buffalo rifle.

Ray,

Not saying a .338 wouldn't kill a buffalo, it would. Not legally.

A .416 would be much better. A .404 would be good as well.

Lavaca,
In the real world, the game scouts allow women, kids, and old men the use of the .338 and the 9.3s or whatever for buffalo, and they are the ones that make those decisions..Sometimes they expect a tip..Any Tanzania outfit will allow that practice..Its not the USA, folks over there are more practical..this applies to most of Africa.

An instance is we were looking at a fine bull in some thick stuff, and the PH took my 404 and gave me the scoped .338 and said thread a shot thru that hole in the bush..I did and he ran 50 yards and piled up. African PH use the 30-06 in some cases when they cull or hunt for themselves, some carry 30-06 as backup. Spent a lot of my life over there..They have laws but they also allow a lot of room for judgment. The 9.3x62 is technically illegal, but a hell of a lot of buffalo have been shot with it and the 9.3x64s in double rifles...I know of no cases wherein anybody has been incarcerated, but if they were it was probably an extreme case.

My post may be politically incorrect, but its the truth.