Cliffy, with RL15 your way out on a limb. I'm surprised you have all your fingers and eyes. Nosler has a Max load of 50.5 gr for the 225 part. Varget would be about the same Max 50gr. 225 gr bullets are good with H4350 or Big Game. The Hodgdon website for H4350 they have a max load of 59.5gr. Big Game in my rifle is maxed out at 58gr. Never start with a max load or assume that one you've seen on the net is safe. Drop down 5% and work up 1/2gr at a time even with published data

Dear All,

Thought you might be interested. Below is my data on a 338-06 Ackley Improved with a 26" barrel using Re17. Very good performance, but IMO this is absolute MAX. Going higher significantly shortened case life with early loosening primer pockets.

Also, the maximums shown are "cold weather" Fall hunting loads. Actually, Re17 performance is very much like Norma 204 powder in this cartridge.

Approach these loads from below and work-up carefully, looking for excessive pressure signs. Also, only use a strong, first-rate, and modern bolt-action rifle.

Regards, AIU


225 gr. Speer
RE 17

55 - 2510
58 -2693
59 -2742
60 -2782
61 -2836 ACCURATE!!
62 -2879 Max

225 gr. ACCUBOND
RE 17

61 -2825
61.5 -2835 ACCURATE!!
62 -2859 Max

AIU, those results are very similar to mine in the 35 Ackley Whelen with 2000-MR. Work up to max, back off 1/2 grain and bingo, terrific accuracy and only giving up 20 fps from the absolute max load. My last session with the 250 Hornady SP and 62.2 gr of 2000-MR gave 2625 fps and .475" 3-shot group at 100 yds.

The RL-17 seems to be just slower enough to work well with the slightly more overbore 338-06.

Update from the range today. Started the loads today at 58gr-2682fps 3shots went as high as 59.5-2784fps. At the end of the day best accuracy was at 58.5gr-2732. I also tried some 200gr Accubonds at 59gr-2794 and 59.5gr-2816. The 59.5gr load gave best accuracy but I can do better with a RL15 load of 55gr at 2850. I'm done with all my RL17 and won't get another LB unless going to hunt moose or grizzly with the 225gr bullets. Again these loads are only safe in my rifle.

Rob Thanks I know about starting low and working up. How I got to 61 grs I don't remember Did it over a year ago. Did notice the high pressure signs right away and stopped. Found some old reloads labeled with a much lower amount of powder.
Back at the loading bench next week to work on the
338/06 with 225 gr TSX bullets.

Rob1SG, I have been following this thread and find it very interesting. I did read the article in the link you provided in one of your posts. I have forwarded that link on to my gunsmith who is also a competitive shooter. He was was quite intrigued to say the least. I do have a 338-06AI and will be trying RL17 as soon as I can find some. Will let you know how the results turn out.

Lagerboy, I have used the last of my RL17. I found I only had gains with the heavier 225gr bullets. I have also read a thread at 24 hr campfire by Jon Baroness. He had marginal gains with the Calibers he used. Good luck

quote:

Originally posted by Rob1SG:
Lagerboy, I have used the last of my RL17. I found I only had gains with the heavier 225gr bullets. I have also read a thread at 24 hr campfire by Jon Baroness. He had marginal gains with the Calibers he used. Good luck

Rob can you post the link to Johns thread at 24hr Campfire?

There is also a very knowledgable chap over there, "Dober", that gave RL17 a wringing out in his 338-06 some years ago. Seemed he safely reached 2900 fps with 200's.

ROB
Yes I know I was very hot. That's why I dropped the load and I'm starting over. That wasn't my first load in the 338/06. If I can get 2500 - 2600fps
with 225 gr TSX or Parts I'll be happy, 1 to 1 1/4" groups will be fine too.

Doug,I found several threads on RL17 tonight but not the right one. I'll keep trying to find the one with Jon's comments

Thanks Rob. I appreciate that. I tried to find it but had no luck.

Doug, I have looked through 100 pages of posts and can't find it. I may have mistaken someone posting a excerpt of one of his articles as his post. Rob

Doug found the thread.
Mule Deer
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 24241
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
jwp,

It should be relatively easy to get 2950 out of your 29" barrel with at least some 225-grain bullets. In general just about any bottlenecked centerfire will gain (or lose) at LEAST 20 fps per inch of barrel, and usually it's more like 25-40 fps. Your 29" barrel should get at least 100 fps more than a 24" barrel.

Nosler's manual lists 2882 fps as the top velocity for a 225 from a 24" barrel. Add 100 fps and you're pushing 3000. Hodgdon's data for the 225 Spire Point lists 2832 fps with 72 grains of IMR4350. This might not get 2950 from your long barrel, but it would certainly come very close. Sierra lists 2900 for their 215-grain bullet from the .338--but in a 21-1/2" barrel. Surely some 225's would be able to get 2900 from a 24" barrel.

Nosler's data, by the way, is shot with their bullets, the 225 Partition and AccuBond, both of which develop more pressure than the 225 Hornady. If they can get 2882 fps, some loads with the Hornady could get somewhere in the 2900's.

Part of the problem with the .338 (and other cartridges) is that some manuals develop loads in the pressure barrels, but then shoot the loads for velocity in a sporting rifle. I dunno why they do this (maybe to save wear on expensive pressure barrels) but they do it, and Hornady's manual is one of them.

Generally factory rifles have both chambers and bores that are a little looser than those in SAAMI pressure barrels, so velocities are lower. Hornady lists a Model 70 Winchester for shooting velocities, and thus the 2800 fps they list as top velocity with the 225 is probably a little low.

Back in 1980, they also listed a 24" Model 70 as their .338 test rifle--but back then they listed one load (with H4831) getting 2900 fps. Is this the same Model 70 that they use today, but with a little more wear on the barrel? We don't know, though it's interesting that their latest data lists 73.5 grains H4831 getting only 2700 fps, while the 1980 manual lists 74.0 grains getting 2900. Basically the same powder charge, but 200 fps difference in muzzle velocity.

This is further complicated by the fact that Hornady (and Sierra) generally round their loads down to the next 100 fps. Thus Hornady may have shot some loads for their recent data that got close to 2900 fps. In fact they probably did--but they aren't listed due to the way the manual is set up.

Back when I was using the .338 a lot, one of my main loads was the 225 Partition and 75.0 grains of RL-19. This is a grain over maximum in the latest Nosler manual, but back when I started fooling with the 225 Nosler there wasn't any 225 data in their manual, since it was a new bullet.

So I used Alliant data for the 225 Hornady, and never had any indication that pressures were out of line. This load got around 2850 from a 22" barrel, so would get around 2900 in a 24"--and switching to the Hornady bullet would allow a little more powder and velocity. Certainly 78 grains wouldn't be out of line, all these factors considered--and it's right there in the Alliant manual, along with a muzzle velocity of 2944 fps FROM A 24" BARREL. Did their technician screw up? I doubt it,having visited some of their facilities and used a lot of their data over the years.

I mentioned earlier that much .338-06 data is kind of wimpy because of the many wildcat rifles in that chambering. Some manuals don't list 225 at over 2600 fps or so--but the same manuals sometimes list 220-grain bullets from the .30-06 at 2600. The Nosler manual, for instance, lists a maximum velocity of 2602 from the .30-06 with a 220--but only lists 2595 as a maximum for the 225 out of the .338-06.

The laws of internal ballistics tells us that when a case is necked up, it can push the same weight bullet faster when loaded to the same pressure. In the instance of the .30-06 and .338-06 the advantage should be about 5.1% more velocity in the .338-06, about 2735 fps, figured from their 220-grain .30-06 data. Obviously the Nosler .338-06 data isn't loaded to the same pressure the .30-06 data--and the maximum SAAMI pressure for the .30-06 is 60,000 psi, not all that warm in itself.

The Hornady manual list a bunch of loads that get 2700 out of the 225 in the .338-06, from a 23-1/2" barrel. Again, they round their data down to the nearest 100 fps, so obviously some of their loads got more than 2700. Maybe even 2750!
_________________________
John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#2613467 - 12/02/08 04:37 PM Re: 338-06 225 grain hornady load help [Re: prm]

Thanks Rob. I appreciate the effort you went to to find that thread. I could not find it.

ROB1SG I just got back from the range after trying out some RL-17. Very pleased with the results. Started with 59.0 gr of RL-17. That load clocked in at 2682 avg with 1.5 in group. Next tried 60.0 at 2745 avg with same size group. Lastly was 61.0 clocking in at 2760 avg. Group size was 1.25 in. No signs of pressure whatsoever. All loads were with 225gr Hornady IB. Will try 62.0 gr tomorrow. There were a couple of competitive shooters next to me who were curious as to what I was shooting. When told, they were surprised to see the velocities and groups this thing was shooting. They also checked my primers and just said wow. So these loads are shooting 60 fps higher than my previous loads with H4350. Groups are also slightly tighter with the RL-17. One other big advantage with RL-17 is no flattened primers. Yet. Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by lagerboy:
ROB1SG I just got back from the range after trying out some RL-17. Very pleased with the results. Started with 59.0 gr of RL-17. That load clocked in at 2682 avg with 1.5 in group. Next tried 60.0 at 2745 avg with same size group. Lastly was 61.0 clocking in at 2760 avg. Group size was 1.25 in. No signs of pressure whatsoever. All loads were with 225gr Hornady IB. Will try 62.0 gr tomorrow. There were a couple of competitive shooters next to me who were curious as to what I was shooting. When told, they were surprised to see the velocities and groups this thing was shooting. They also checked my primers and just said wow. So these loads are shooting 60 fps higher than my previous loads with H4350. Groups are also slightly tighter with the RL-17. One other big advantage with RL-17 is no flattened primers. Yet. Cheers.

lagerboy, what's your barrel length? I was out again using 61 grs of Re17 behind 225 Accubonds - got 2843 fps with a 26" barrel attached to my 338-06 AI. Primer pockets were OK and the cases were ready for more. But, IMO this is MAX, I wouldn't push it too much further, especially on a hot day.

Also, you might want to try Norma 204. 62 to 63 grs should duplicate the Re17 performance. Your groups may shrink as well. You never know until you try. N204 is a very accurate powder in my gun.

Regards, AIU

AIU, it's a 24 in barrel. You are getting great velocities. I'm pretty sure I have a "short" throat with this chamber. Also tried 55gr 4320 with Swift Scirocco 210 gr and velocities were identical to 61 gr of the RL-17 with 225gr IB.(2760FPS) Go figure. Groups were better but primers were flattened out somewhat. I honestly think that there is a sweet spot somewhere here with RL17. Thanks for the tip on N204. I don't if it's me but with RL17 the recoil feels longer, more drawn out like a muzzleloader and the shots using 4320 were "sharper". Hence the sharper pressure spike of 4320. Temps were about 15 C.

Lagerboy, I'd be very careful about your powder increases at this point. Since the velocity increase dropped that should be telling you your close to if not at max at 61gr in your rifle. Looks like a sweet spot in accuracy also maybe adjust the seat depth and call it good.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob1SG:
Lagerboy, I'd be very careful about your powder increases at this point. Since the velocity increase dropped that should be telling you your close to if not at max at 61gr in your rifle. Looks like a sweet spot in accuracy also maybe adjust the seat depth and call it good.

EXCELLENT advice Rob. This RL17 is some strange stuff that we have no previous data to serve as a bench mark. I just hope that Alliant gets on the ball & starts putting out more data ESPECIALLY pressure data.

I feel like the canary send down into the cave to test for dangerous gases when I experiment with RL17.

Thanks for the advice ROB. Actually really happy with the results so far and will probably leave it as is. And like you mentioned just toil with seating depth. Again thanks. Yes Humbarger, come on Alliant. Release more info.

Went to the range again yesterday to do more testing with RL-17. Here are some numbers. Tried 62.0gr of RL-17 with 225gr Hornady IB. Velocity was 2805 avg. Group was 1.5 in. Primers were to starting to flatten out a little but not bad. The other load used 210 gr Sciroccos. I had 63.0gr behind that bullet and it measured 2905 avg velocity with a 1.25 in group. No pressure signs on this particular load. Both loads were very uinform and had no extraction problems whatsoever. Primers used were CCI 250 and new 30-06 Winchester brass necked up. That's as far as I'm going with this powder. Very happy with it and will use both these loads to hunt with. Cheers.

Lagerboy et al. Bought a new LB of RL17 loaded up the 225SST with 59.5gr. This produced 2704 fps avg for three shots. I think the orginal readings were off as it was taken early in the morning. Accuracyat 100yds was two in one hole and the 3rd right about an inch. Primers were still rounded.

Now that sounds about right as I get 2650+ with "plain ol'" powders and 225's.