Just returned form the range. Loaded up some RL17 with Hornady 225 SST, New Lapua brass and Fed210M primers. Chrono's with a Prochrono about 10' from the muzzle. 59gr-2777 Fps,60gr-2811 Fps, 60.5gr-2834 Fps, and last 61gr-2876 Fps. No signs of pressure in my Rifle but it may be different in yours. start low and work up. CORRECTION new data 59.5gr equals 2704fps the above speeds were early in the morning and I guess the sun angle caused it to read the vel. wrong

i dont know to much about the 338/06, but i think your way over pressure....would be intresting to get one or two cases and just fire and reload them and see how many shots you get out of a case before the primer pocket loosend with that 61 gn loading.....but then with R17 you may just have hit the sweet spot....i really like R17in my 06

quote:

but i think your way over pressure.

Looks to me that way as well. I shoot a 340PDK (a 280 case minimal taper shoulder forward) Looking at QL volumes my case is about 14% larger than the 338-06. I'm hard pressed to reach those velocties in a 24"

Assuming a 24" I had to slow RL17 down a touch to match your velocity per gr of powder. Your 59 gr load calculates 70753psi the 61 gr load calculates 80368psi not to memtion a 113% fill rate.

Rl 17 has a burn rate the same as 4350 at least thats what Aliant says. I'm using 61gr as a max load which is what is listed in my Speer #13 manual for a 225 bt.I have loaded 61gr of H4350 with the Hornady and Accubond in the past without problems. Hornady does not list any of the 4350. I have a 24" barrel. Thanks for the advise maybe I should back off

I just started trying RL 17 in a 284 Win. According to Ben the head technican at Alliant powder RL17 is a bit slower than IMR 4350 & use that data as a guide. Pressures will be a bit lower. This powder behave differently from other powder that you have used. I'm loading 55.5 gr behind a Nosler 140 BT. No pressure signs but a much stouter recoil than my go to load of 47.5 gr RL15 with the 140 Nosler.

Unfortunatly I don't have a chrony. Yet.

Rob I am going to try your loads with 200 Nosler BTs.

Velocity is the result of pressure. Your 61 gr load is 1.5 grains more than the max 62,700 psi load that the Data Center shows for the SLOWER H4350. Also, your starting load of 59 grains gives over 100 fps more velocity than the max 59.5 gr load of H4350.

It seems obvious to me that you are running high pressures, probably over 65,000 psi even with the 59 grain load. The nearly double velocity jump from 60-61 grains over the velocity gained from going from 59-60 grains also is typical of over-pressure. You probably have minimum chamber dimensions and possibly even a tight bore to develop so much pressure and velocity from those loads.

If it were me, I would consider the 59 grain load at 2777 as max. With a quality bullet, nothing short of African buffalo and elephant would stand up to even that load.

quote:

I have a 24" barrel. Thanks for the advise maybe I should back off

The numbers I gave were only QLs calculations. As M98 said I would be curious to see how many loading you get out of your brass.

Just out of curiosity I ran a couple Alliant max loads through QL to see if it was in the ball park.
280 Rem with a 145gr speer 2965 fps QL calls it 57252psi and 3020fps

338Wmag 225speer 67.5grs 2831 QL calls it 57786psi and 2798fps.

So I would say the burn rate in QL is at least in the ball park. The 2876 velocity is getting up there for the 338Wmag staying under 63,000.

If M 98 and Ramrod340 both suggest a load might be overpressure, one might want to listen closely.....these two are among the "sharpest knives in the drawer"

Ramrod340, I would be curious what QL has to say about the Speer load of 62.0gr of H4350 and 61.0 for IMR4350 with a 225 Speer BT which they say is under 53,000 cup. The Sierra load of 62.0gr for a 215 SBT w/IMR4350 in a 338-06.The Nosler 210gr which is a very hard bullet lists 60gr of IMR4350. Hodgdon lists the 225gr with 59.5 H4350 at 62,700 PSI. I checked my references before I loaded these and I don't think I'm way over the top with these. Whelenite, Alliant says RL 17 doesn't pressure spike like other powders and they just came out with a new one using the same manufac. process called RL 33 designed like Rl17 for lower pressure and higher Velocity. I doubt I'll use any of these loads just wanted to see if what Alliant was saying was true my 6mm Rem loves this powder.

Rob,

As I said only QL calculations. But when you look at Hornady 338Wmag Superperformance loads for the 225 are listed at 2840fps. A 338-06 load giving 36fps more makes one pause.

As to your Hodgdon load of 59.5 of H4250 QL calls it 61053 I left everything at 3.34" shorter OAL could vary it a touch. I would say QL is calculating in the same ballpark as the Hodgdon data.

Your speer 225BT are H4350 70640, Imr 71168.

Siera 66024psi
Nosler 60gr 55763psi.

Again I'm only running on gut feel, factory Wmag loads and experience with my 340PDK. I "feel" your loads are too hot. If I was loading it I would say I started above the max.

If your brass holds up and you want to load them that way it is your choice. I simply would have serious second thoughts.

Thanks for the info and good advise Paul. Like I said my 6mm Rem loves this powder and is getting 100 fps more than my standard load of IMR4350. So I wanted to try it in the 338-06

quote:

So I wanted to try it in the 338-06

You do realize that 2785fps is a normal 225gr Wmag load. Even at your starting load you are above that if your Chrono is correct. No one is saying give up on RL17. As M98 stated. Take a load ( I would error to the lower side ) load a couple of cases several times. If your cases hold up and you have no other issues them maybe it works in your rifle.

Now I hate to put this in writing but in my younger days I shot some loads that would total my primer pocket on the third firing. After I got into my 60s I like my cases to last a touch longer.

I too am in my 60's. I don't feel the need for a 225gr for the deer, hogs and elk that I hunt. Most of the elk I have taken have been with a 200gr Accubond/Northfork at about 2800fps and I have always gotten full penetration/exit. If I hunted the black timber maybe but not where I hunt. I may play around some more with the 59gr load and see how the primer pockets hold up but I would have to buy another canister and start over again. Thanks for the data from QL

quote:

200gr Accubond

That is all I load in my 340 anymore. It has yet to fail me.

I have been loading for my 338-06 for 17 years and have tried about every suitable powder (except Re17) and 225 gr bullet out there and cannot safely (measured by case life with 7 tight loadings being the requirement) get to 2700 fps in with my 22" barreled rifle. I get to 2670 with the 225 gr AB, 2800 with the 210 gr Partition and 2925 with the 185 TSX. Same with other similar weight bullets.

Boxhead, Alliant says gains of 50 to 150 are possible with RL 17. I had the same experience with my rifle until I tried this powder. 2700 was absolute max for me with a 225gr in a 24" barrel but this powder is "different" at least in my very limited experience with it. I would be cautious working up loads for it but I would try it.

RL 17 is proving to act very differently from all powders that I have ever used. It does remind me somewhat of the old Norma 205. If you remember that powder you are telling your age.

Doug and all, Here is some very interesting info for you on several cart. including the 284 Win which also talks about Vel and Pressure testing. http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

quote:

Doug and all, Here is some very interesting info for you on several cart. including the 284 Win which also talks about Vel and Pressure testing. http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

Just a couple thoughts. Make sure notice the 31"+ barrels. Doing a spot check against QL the 308 fall in line. The 6.5x284 velocities calculated abount 50fps across the board. What he called sticky at 51 calculated 63217psi.

The 284 data was another issue. Pressure calculated HIGH.

If you find your load and you can get 7-8 loadings out of case then your pressure is probably acceptable.

ROB
if you get the chance get a new case fire it a few times with a soft load to harden the case head and then hit it 10 times with that 59 gn or 60 gn load and see how the primer pocket holds out....
would be intresting to hear what happens

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
ROB
if you get the chance get a new case fire it a few times with a soft load to harden the case head and then hit it 10 times with that 59 gn or 60 gn load and see how the primer pocket holds out....
would be intresting to hear what happens

+1

M98, I never load my brass past 5-6 times even with soft loads in any cart. I shoot which means I get new brass at least once a year for all of them. Just my thing I like new brass.I noted the bbl lengths but also noted a 150 to 200 increase with the same bbl using RL17 over the other perfered powder.Expansion ratio of the 338-06 is very similar to the 308. I think I would be very happy with the 59 to 59.5 load in my rifle. If I ever had a need or want for a 225gr load

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Rob,

...when you look at Hornady 338Wmag Superperformance loads for the 225 are listed at 2840fps. A 338-06 load giving 36fps more makes one pause.

Maybe Rob just has one of those "fast barrels".

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Doug and all, Here is some very interesting info for you on several cart. including the 284 Win which also talks about Vel and Pressure testing. http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

Just a couple thoughts. Make sure notice the 31"+ barrels. Doing a spot check against QL the 308 fall in line. The 6.5x284 velocities calculated abount 50fps across the board. What he called sticky at 51 calculated 63217psi.

The 284 data was another issue. Pressure calculated HIGH.

If you find your load and you can get 7-8 loadings out of case then your pressure is probably acceptable.

I read that data Paul. I wish they had hunting data with 140 gr pills & 24" barrels. All their data is for the l o n g range paper punchers with 31" barrels & 180 gr burgers VLDs.

Rob---Where did you find the load data for your 338-06 with RL17? I have seen several articles about RL17 and calibers not on the Alliant website. I have tried it in all of my short mags and my 25-06. I picked up an average of 75fps over other powders.

Maybe a little off topic but I am getting 2619 fps from my .338 Ruger Compact Magnum with a 20 inch barrel with a 225 grain Hornady Spire Point and 61 grains of Ramshot Big Game. That is half a grain over Ramshot's max load of 60.5 grains of Big Game for which they show a max pressure for that load at 60,170 psi. The RCM has just a bit more case capacity than the .336-06. I'm thinking with 2-4 inches more barrel, I could nudge 2700 fps with a 225 grain bullet but Rob's loads seem awfully hot to me.

Ed S. Alliant says RL17 has a burn rate similar (slower than) IMR 4350.They suggest using starting data from than and working up. My Speer #13 Manual lists a 225gr BT bullet with loads from 57gr-61gr with IMR 4350.Hodgdon lists 59.tgr with H4350. I have also shot 2 different 225gr bullets with up to 61 gr of H4350 in my rifle without pressure signs. I have never been over 2700 with either of those loads. I started with 59gr and worked up to 61 shooting over my chrono and reported what I got. If anyone wants to start lower thats more than fine with me. These loads are only OK for me not anyone else with another rifle.
Dave Bush, I used a load of 58gr of Big Game in my rifle with 2683 fps across the chrono which is a max load for me.

Rob--I called Alliant and got the same answer (use IMR4350 data) for another caliber I was working on at the time. I was just curious if there was some printed data you used to start with other than the IMR data. In my 300WSM, I was pushing a 180gr TSX at 3150mv and loading 1.5gr less than the max RL17 data using a speer bullet. Even at that velocity, I had no apparent signs of high pressure--primers rounded and extraction easy. Using a max load of RL22, I was only getting 2950mv in that rifle with the same bullet. In one caliber I asked the Alliant tech about, he advised staying with RL22 instead of RL17.

Ed, from what I"ve read on the link I provided results can vary depending even on bullet weight. I don't think it would work in lighter bullets but with the heavier ones it seems true.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
In one caliber I asked the Alliant tech about, he advised staying with RL22 instead of RL17.

Ed, can you say which cartridge that was? Thanks!

friar

I've been using R-17 in a 284,280AI,30-06,270WSM and (2)300WSM and I'm working up some loads for a 243 using 85/87 gr bullets.

I use H-4350 and little IMR-4350 and I find I'm closer to H-4350 in velocity with the bullets I like to use.

I tried R-17 in one of my 30-06 accuracy was good but real slow velocity then the other 30-06 had good accuracy and velocity.

I haven't check velocity yet in the 243 need to do more @ 100yd then move it out to 200/300 yds.

I have been using rl17 for a while in various calibers and have seen the same results as Rob with published data. It gives 100 fps more velocity with no pressure signs and the brass holds up fine. I have not tried it in my 338/06, but will. It is fantastic in the short mags and 284 win. The biggest problem is there is not much data for rl17. It is fast becoming one of my favorite powders and I don't think Rob is too out of line on pressure. rl17 is supposed to have an increase in velocity without pressure spikes over similar burn rate powders.

For what it's worth, I think it is not a good idea to try and assemble load data based on "comparative burn rates".

Ramrod, I was reviewing what you had said. On your QL you said RL17 at 61gr was 80368 PSI and IMR4350 at 61gr was 71168 PSI. Seems QL has the wrong burn rate for RL17. Your QL data has 62gr of H4350 at 70640 PSI. If RL17 falls in between those how is the pressure so different???

quote:

Seems QL has the wrong burn rate for RL17

Anything is possible. Key thing to remember about QL is that it is simply a CALCULATION and should be treated as such. Just like a rifle will not normally match a loading manual. Each rifle, loading manual and QL are all different. It is simply data.

Ignoring RL17 for a moment I've found QL to be close once I "fine Tune" the burn rate to match my powder lott and rifle. That meaning I I take my powder work up a load and measure the velocity. Then tweek the burn rate so that QL calculates my velocity then the calculations match very well for different loads of the same powder in that rifle and normal others.

RL 17 might in fact be the second coming. As I said most of it is simply "my feeling" After 40+ years of loading when a load suddenly gives a higher velocity than a case 25% large it give me pause. Most normal 338Wmag factory loads are in the mid 2700 for the 225 with Hornady's superperformance still being 40fps lower than your load. My best handloads in my 22" 338wmag are still lower than your load. Looking at a lot of posted handloads for the 338 many other have trouble reaching that velocity. Only manual I had close was Nosler. The max it lists for a 338Wmag and 225s is only 2882.

As I stated my feeling, QL etc don't really mean anything. If your rifle and brass can handle your 5-6 loading and still have a tight pocket go shooting. Make sure you don't have a safe winter load and a blown primer summer load. (been there done that ) Since H4350 and Imr4350 both calculate in the 70,000+ range I think I would get a second velocity reading from another Chrono.

I loaded the last of my RL17 today. I started at 58gr-59.5gr and changed the Primer to CCI200. Hopefully someone else will be at the range with a different chrono tomorrow. If not I'll do it with mine and report the Vel.

friar---I was working on my 270Wby loads at the time. The tech at Alliant said I could try it but he thought that RL22 was the more appropriate powder in that case. My 270Wby has a slow barrel based on all the loads I have tried in it. I finally settled on 150gr TSX's and h4831.

I would be curious what that QL software would say about my loads in my 30-378Wby if someone can run it. I started loading my first Accumark in 30-378Wby in about 1998 and settled on a load of 101gr of RL22 with a 180gr Swift A-Frame. That gives about 3450mv. Some of the more current loading manuals seem to show the max load of RL22 to be several grains less than what I have used for over 14 years. I currently own 4 rifles in 30-378 and shoot 180gr Sierra's in a couple of them, 180gr TSX's in one and Swift A-Frames in the original rifle. All f these shoot 100-101gr of RL22 behind a 180gr bullet.

Ed, thanks! I was curious because I've just bought a pound of RL17 for my friend to work up in my .270 WCF. He'll work it up for 140 gr. Accubonds & 150 gr. Partitions.

In the past, I've used RL22 for the above bullet weights (though the 150 being an A-frame) and had good accuracy & velocity. So, I'm going to see if the grass is any greener with RL 17.

Who knows?

friar

I too have a 338/06 on a Rem 700 frame. I tried 61 grs of RL15 with pressures WAY too high. One shot-blown out primer pocket. Couldn't get a primer to stay in on first reload. I've tried Varget but I think it spikes pressure way too fast I've got some RL19 that I'd like to try Anyone tried it in the 338/06? RL17 might be something I'll try when I get near a supply store (I live in the boonies).
I've been using 225 Partitions but recently have been on to Barnes TSX. Can't get any 210 gr bullets to shoot well. Only 225s will group.