I was out shooting with several of my buddies on Saturday, and I took along my 35 Whelen, which I built with a 24" 12 twist barrel. I haden't shot it in a while, and just thought I'd shoot it for practice. I had a box of Remington #R35WH2 250 Grain Soft Points, which was given to me a few years ago, and I thought I'd shoot a few to see what they would do. I expected velocites around 2500fps, but the 1st shot chronographed at 2706 FPS the next 4 averaged 2694 FPS/ with an Extreme Spread of only 27fps. This is not the 1st time I have seen a 35 Whelen shoot a 250 grain bullet @ over 2700fps, as my friends custom mauser sends a 250 Accubond downrange at over 2700fps, but this was factory stuff. Pretty spectacular!!

I gotta tell you though, this particular rifle, might be the most satisfying rifle to shoot, that I own. BTW, this one shoots 225 Ballistic tips into under an inch.

Jerry

Guys, I have to post a correction here! The ammo mentioned above, while marked 250 grain, and sold to us as a box of factory 250's, turns out to be 225'S. When they chronographed at 2700fps, we decided to pull a bullet and check out all the components. That's when we discovered they were 225's. Sorry for the confusion!!

Jerry

That's still pretty darn good though!!

You were about to make my 35 AI jealous!

That's very interesting. I have three boxes with that catalog number and the bullets are 250 gr. round noses that Remington discontinued quite a while back.
The only 225 gr. bullet I shoot in my Whelen is the 225 gr. barnes TSX and I get 2700 FPS and .50 to .75" groups on average.
For some reason Whelen ammo is a bit scarce around here and most shops, big and small just don't carry it. I've scrounged up enough factory ammo, plus enough new brass that I won't worry too much about having ammo.
The more I shoot that thing the more I like it.
Paul B.

I was not aware that Remington made anything but 200 gr and 250 gr Whelen ammo? My go to load is the 225 gr TSX over 60 Re 15 which goes 2700 fps in my 22" barrel. Varget supposed to work very well too.

You guys are getting the almost exact performance as I am. Oh the bullet brand may be different, but 2700fps+ seems to be the norm for most of us with 225's. Same groups as Paul. Also, it looks like the bullets in the supposed factory 250's may be Partitions. They do shoot pretty well, and I have decided to just shoot them up and then reload um! This morning after a fouling shot, three guys shot a 7 shot group that went under 1.5", with the offending cartridges. I got 8 left and will shoot them up tomorrow.

Jerry

A 225 gr TSX after two moose shoulders at 150 yards.

A 225 grain .35 Whelen at 2,700 FPS isn't at all unreasonable.....it's not a chicken**** load either....possibly at the 65,000 PSI level....

Mine runs very close to that....not quite there but close

A Monument to Performance...

quote:

Originally posted by akrange:
A Monument to Performance...

+1 Yet not exactly a big pool of interest. Once I got mine I knew I would have a 35Whelen in my arsenal for good!

Still surprises me more do not shoot em.

With many of the newer powders and even some of the old ones, 2700 fps is doable in the Whelen at under 60,000 psi, especially in a 24" barrel.

The last time I chronied mine I was getting 2800 + fs from hornady 200 grainers. It has a 24" tube.

Vapo: I don't know about 65000psi. I have never seen a pressure sign in either of the 2 Whelens I shoot. One of the guys gets 2700, with a book load and RL15, with a 250 grainer. With the data I use, I could go up another full 2 grains of powder. I have been there, but the groups weren't as good. I agree about a Whelen in the arsenal, couldn't imagine being without one, until the Good Lord calls me home.

Jerry

Is it easy to rebore a 30-06 to 35 Whelen and
at a nominal price; or just buy a 35 to start
with?

Highseat: It's easy to build a Whelen, a rebore or rebarrel is easy enough, and probobly more satisfying thna buying one. Depends on your screwing around gene, lol!

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:

One of the guys gets 2700, with a book load and RL15, with a 250 grainer.

Jerry

2700 fps with a 250 grain bullet out of a .35 Whelen I am sorry Jerry but I am going to have to throw a flag on that. Your friend must have an awfully optimistic chrony. 2450-2500 fps is more like it. A 225 grain bullet at that velocity, yes, but not a 250 grainer.

Dave: Do you have any experience with the 35 Whelen? Why po po something you have no knowledge of the procedures and methods used by the writer, me! The Pact Cronograph we use is dependable, verified and checked. Many shooters shoot over this system, and we have compared the velocties they have gotten with their cronographs, to ours. Right on!! I know you 9.3 boys all have problems, and I haven't figured out what they are but this is a fact. This rifle sends a 250 grain Nosler Partition down range at over 2700fps. I am getting over 2700fps with a 225, so I find this not so surprising. Besides a 150fps or so more or less out of any given rifle is not very significant, and happens all the time. Keep reading the loading manuals, they will keep you in a Superior frame of mind.

Regards

Jerry

Jerry:

I had a Remington Classic .35 Whelen with a 22 inch barrel for many years. I have loaded for it, shot it, and killed two elk with it. With a 225 grain bullet I had not trouble getting +2700 fps with it but with a 250 grain bullet, I could barely get it to 2500 fps. I think my Reloder 15 loads were running about 2440-2460 fps with a 250 grain Speer. Now, with a longer barrel, maybe 2550 is possible but I don't believe the 2700 fps. If, as you say, this particular rifle will push a 250 grain Partition at 2700 fps, then I wouldn't stand to close to the guy when he is shooting it because it is WAY overpressure.

You're right, I do have a 9.3xX62 as well. In fact, I have two of them, a CZ and a Blaser. In those rifles a load of 60 grains of Varget will push a 250 grain TSX at around 2500 fps. You can get slightly more velocity with Ramshot Big Game but not 2700 fps my friend.

Believe it! Not only was it one chronograph session, but 3. After noting all the data, and we were surprised the 1st time. But when it repeated 2 more times, we figured it was correct. I have one Whelen that shoots a 250 grain Speer Hot Core, at over 2600fps, so another 100fps, while fast was not that suprising. Between the 2 Whelen shooters in our group, we have over 1,000 rounds of load developement. Not that this makes us experts, but it does give us a lot of confidence with this cartridge. Plus I have been loading and shooting the 35 Whelen since the early 1970's, and I have seen speeds much higher than listed in the load manuals, although these are the fastest with a 250 grain bullet. All the barrel lengths are 24" and they are all twisted 12".

On a buffalo hunt in Kansas a couple years ago, this rifle bullet combo was used to shoot a cow buffalo. The range was right at 80 yds. The sounds of the shot were like this, bang, fawap, and zing ,as the 250 grain Partition skipped across the prairie after exiting the buffalo.

It's all I can offer on the subject, it is true and correct.

Jerry

Jerry, I just pulled out my data from the RealGuns web site. Shooting a 9.3X62 Ruger Hawkeye with a 23 inch barrel they managed to get a bit over 2600 fps with a 250 grain TSX and 59 grains of Reloder.

Dave: That's my experience with the 250 as well. With a little longer barrel, one can see the possibilities. Oh and by the way, please let us know the next time you come to Arizona, we'll make sure you don't get next to the guy shooting these loads, and thus prevent you from getting hurt!! LOL!

Regards

Jerry

I shoot three rifles chambered to the .35 Whelen and while a 250 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS sounds a little far out, I won't discount the probabilty of it's happening.
Case in point. I have four rifles chambered to the .270 Win. and my preferred loads use 150 gr. bullets. Discounting the Ruger #1 which has a 22' barrel, the other rifles all have 24" barrels. Two rifles will shoot the 150 gr. Sierra Game King to 2930 and 2950 FPS. The last one does an honest 2999 FPS and has been checked out over three different chronographs.
It might be interesting to check out that fast shooting .35 Whelen. maybe it has a bit longer throat. Maybe the bore is slightly on the larger side allowing the bullet to slip though faster.
I once had a Ruger M77 in 7x57 that not only had a fairly long throat but the groove diameter was .286" rather than the nominal .286". kind of loose for a 7MM bullet and matching .280 Rem. velocity was a piece of cake with no apparent signs of high pressure.
I think it's OK to be skeptical but calling it outright BS when your weren't there?
I've only played with the 225 gr. Barnes TSX in my Whelen other that one short trial with Speer and Hornady 250 gr. bullets at IIRC about 2550 FPS with H335. After the results I got on a cow elk back in 2010, I see no real need for the 250 gr. bullets. Ain't no big bad bears in my neck of the woods anyway.
I would be interested in the load data for that very fast load though. Might be something I'd look into for comparison with loads I'm using.
Paul B.

quote:

I see no real need for the 250 gr. bullets.

Nor do I.....a 225 partition will do for me any day.....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I see no real need for the 250 gr. bullets.

Nor do I.....a 225 partition will do for me any day.....

225 Accubond for me which is six on one side and a half a dozen on the other when compared to the 225 partition. Just wondering though when Ray is going to jump in here and tell us that the 35 just ain't what we think it is. SAMMI lists the old girl at 52,000 cup which is pretty good pressure for moving a 225 out with some smack.

I have a 35W on a M-98 action with a 24 inch barrel that happened to have the chamber cut with a very long throat

My regular load with RL15 runs a Speer or Hornaday 250 gr at 2600+ with ease , and I am satisfied with that

once for the hell of it though I seated the Hornadays out at more than 3.5 inch overall length , still clearing the lands with my long throat , although such rounds will not work thru the magazine .........at any rate worked up cautiously with a chronograh and reached 2705 fps....no sign of pressure at all and the cases would fall right oughta the gun

of course , I can't prove what the pressures were , but I highly doubt they exceeded 65000 psi.......

The late Finn AAgaard: 2600 fps from his 22" custom 35 Whelen and 250gr Nosler Partitions + RL-15.

My Remington 22": 2600+ fps from 250gr Speers and Hornadys using RL-15; 2550 from the Nosler Partition. 2700 fps from the 225 Nosler Partition; 2800 fps from a 200gr Barnes X. Got still better MV's from my 22" 350 Rem Mag using same bullets and Rl-15.

As to the 9.3 X 62: The .35 Whelen will NOT quite keep pace because of 70grs water volume versus 77 in the 9.3, plus better expansion ratio in the 9.3. The mentioned 2600+ fps on Real Guns from a 250gr was a TSX which chewed up too much powder room. That's not a apples to apples comparison at all.

Yet, I'm a great fan of the Whelen AND the 9.3 X 62. The 9.3 is slightly better overall, and easily as good as a .338 Win Mag.

You can read about it on my blogs.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

2700 fps out of a 35 whelen, 250 grn. bullet kind of walks all over the 338 WM! Has this been brought to the attention of the 338 shooters?

quote:

Originally posted by eny:
2700 fps out of a 35 whelen, 250 grn. bullet kind of walks all over the 338 WM! Has this been brought to the attention of the 338 shooters?

It's close... but no cigar! That 2700 fps is doable in SOME .35 Whelens with long 24 - 26" tubes and long (magnum-length)actions, like Remington's, where bullets can be seated "long", and where freebore and barrel allows it, but it's still rare.

On the other hand, it's fairly common today with powders like RL-22 and 19 to achieve 2800 fps from 250's in a 24" .338 Win Mag. From my 26" I easily attained 2840 fps from 250's. So, no, a .35 Whelen, with equal length barrels and same bullet weights from the same company will NOT attain the velocities of a .338 Win Mag, let alone "walk all over the 338 WM".

But for hunting the largest game North America has to offer, what one will do so will the other, minus 50 yards for the Whelen, all else equal.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

The offending, or over acheiving 35 Whelen how ever you want to look at it, is a Mauser 98 Action with a Douglas Barrel. Nothing special about the magazine or throat that I know of, and this rifle sports a full Mannlicher, that's pronounced mann lisher stock, not manlicker, lol.

100 fps is not a real big deal, as I have said before many rifles will be + or - 100fps.

Jerry

GUN BBL Bullet Velocity (f/s) Powder Charge Primer Case CUP/PSI OAL
Springfield 1903 Crietz Custom 25.5 250 Hor Spt 2601 AA-2015BR 53 CCI 200 REM 3.346
Springfield 1903 Crietz Custom 25.5 225 BARNES X 2806 AA-2015 56.5 CCI 200 REM 65K psi 3.344

I don't run the old girl that hard anymore though.
The old Barnes 225X loads came out of the Barnes manual #1 and were warm...but they shot very well and killed like the hammer of Thor. I don't know if I ever heard a load hit harder on live game. They gave a giant "Thwack" and game went down!

Fury01: I haven't loaded any Barnes Bullets in my whelen, but my experience with Nosler Partitions, Ballistic Tips, and Accubonds, are exactly as you describe with yours.

BTW guys, the original box of supposed Remington factory Ammo, I have discarded all the brass, as an unknown.

Jerry

It's a fairly simple matter to get 2,600+ fps with RL15 in the 35 Whelen.

Yeah Brad: that's a fact the 9.3 boys don't want to hear!

Jerry

My 35 Whlen is an AI, 24" Shilen barrel, VZ24 action, 61.5grs RL15, average velocities are 2700fps. With 225gr averages 2800 and 200gr 2850. I run out of room for powder at those velocities, could switch powders, but just haven't seen the need, everything I shoot dies.

RL-15 and the 35 Whelen are great together. The one I had reached 2700 fps with a 225 TSX and with 250 grand slams I was right at 2600 I believe. I almost had the same amount of powder for each load, within 1 grain of each other. My next lot of powder I had to back off a .5 grain so pay attention to that.

Good advice Ray. I'll tell you a 225 or 250 grain bullet @ 2600-2700fps, for North America what else does one need?
BTW, my particular loads are with IMR 4064, and I haven't changed the powder charge since the 1970'S. Performance with this powder has been virtually unchanged since then. I suppose though, once I am finished with the current 8 pounder I have, I will have to check my loads because of the changes that may have taken place since Hodgdon took over.

Jerry

I never tried anything but RL-15 that I can remember but I have heard many times 4064 was a good powder in the Whelen. Varget also. I think the you are right, you would be hard pressed to need another cartridge besides the 35 Whelen in North America.

I have been working with Alliant's 2000-MR in my Whelen AI @ 24" barrel with impressive results. It's a touch slower than RL-15, but denser, so you can get more in the case without compressing it. 2625 fps with 250 NP and only .018 case head expansion.