Reading this forum for the last year and a bit I have concluded that Nosler Partitions are very popular and such testimony must be valid.
However, my perception was not always like this as when I attended a lecture/ workshop on handloading at the 1998 Reno SCI show, the presenters (2 or 3 of them) stated very plainly that Nolser's production process had changed recently and the bullets "were not what they once were."
This is ten years ago, but what is the story behind this and what is the quality like now in comparison to the history of the bullet?

Every rifle has its own preference for bullets, but I've been using Partitions since '69 in various cartridges and have never recovered one.

Back in 1998 wasn't it the Barnes group giving the handloading lecture???

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
...at the 1998 Reno SCI show, the presenters (2 or 3 of them) stated very plainly that Nolser's production process had changed recently and the bullets "were not what they once were." ...

Hey Karoo, I believe that would be a true statement every year for Nosler - they are constantly improving them.

The Partitions were originally made a good bit differently than the ones made today. And having shot a good many of the old ones and many boxes of new(er) ones, they never disappoint me and are usually quite accurate.

I was just talking to a buddy yesterday about a specific Lot of 7mm 140gr Partitions that shoot tighter than B-Tips or MatchKings which is my normal Gold Standard for accuracy.

So, they may have selected those specific words to "trick" you. Best of luck to you.

What was once, once was. Today here and now they are one of the finest premium freezer fillers out there and still at a reasonable price compaired to most premium projectiles. Through the years they have probably killed more game than all the other premiums going. Good old Remmy Core-Lokts probably get the overall award.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
Reading this forum for the last year and a bit I have concluded that Nosler Partitions are very popular and such testimony must be valid.
However, my perception was not always like this as when I attended a lecture/ workshop on handloading at the 1998 Reno SCI show, the presenters (2 or 3 of them) stated very plainly that Nolser's production process had changed recently and the bullets "were not what they once were."
This is ten years ago, but what is the story behind this and what is the quality like now in comparison to the history of the bullet?

If it really was 1998, then I was the "presenter". It was my last year doing it, and Barnes started the next year.

Noslers used to be "turned" from a copper rod, and then were now being made by extrusion.

Both bullets were a "love-hate" relationship.

Some folks want to develope a load using a target bullet and then switch to a NP and expect the same sort of accuracy. What is surprising is often the NP will deliver that accuracy.
To me they are THE premium bullet. The old double core Grand Slams ain't bad neither. After that, you spending money and stroking your ego. IMO

Karoo,

Well I'll just add my $0.02 worth to the overall direction of this thread also.

10 year ago reloading seminar....well, everyone's entilted to their own opinion and subsequently they vary somewhat. Perhaps NP's aren't the bullet they once were but I sure haven't noticed any difference.

I've been loading various Nosler Partitions in .243", .270", .284", .308", .366", .375" (obviously the last two alot more recently than 40 years ago).

Both accuracy & terminal performance over the 40 years has been sterling. Yes, I also use BT's for some accuracy testing but when push-comes-to-shove the hunting loads with NP's in them will plunck three into a one hole cluster in every rifle I've got. Then & now.

I've been using the NP in several calibers since 96 & it is my go to bullet for antelope to elk & beyond. The only reason I don;t use them in every caliber, is they don;t make a 423 partition. Accuracy is always good-exc. & I have never experienced anything close to a failure. In fact, I have only recovered a single NP.

A few recovered Partitions

this one lost it's rear core, read more about it here; http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...rch=true#Post1828181





This one ruptured the rear jacket and the lead flowed forward to the point that it is .172 inches below the rear jacket
tthe bullet on the left was recovered from wet news paper and the one one the right from an Asain Buffalo. They are both 400 grain 416 bullets




This is a recovered 400 grain 416 bullet from an American Buffalo Bison



another view

quote:

If it really was 1998, then I was the "presenter". It was my last year doing it, and Barnes started the next year.

Noslers used to be "turned" from a copper rod, and then were now being made by extrusion.

Yes, that's it and now I remember!
I use Partitions in my 270 and 6x45 (but not some other rifles) with success and guide many hunters doing the same.
That said, I am always trying to improve on accuracy that is not always there. Thanks for the posts.
www.graaffreinetsafaris.co.za

Really nice to hear it was not someone trying to hoodoo you.

I think the Noslers are better than ever based on shooting a hell of a lot of game with them..I particularly like the 400 gr. .416 bullets on buffalo...

Knowing how to use a Nosler is one thing some don't have a clue about..It its not performing as you expect then go to the next heavier bullet in that caliber...

It bothers me not if the front lead goes awray inside and animal or if the front portion blows off, it makes mush out of everything and it works on lighter animals...

The new .416 has the partition further forward and it always looses the front lead and the expanded bullets if you can recover them are long in the base expanded to 50 caliber and look like a Barnes X, so go figure.

All bullet manufacturers make both good and bad bullets, I don't particulary like Noslers in calibers below .308, I don't like Swifts on plainsgame, but I do like Noslers over .308 and I like Swifts on Buffalo, same for the Barnes X..

Any bullet can and will fail, its made by man and man is imperfect..

Todays bullets are the best ever produced and its pretty hard to go wrong, kudos for the bullet makers, they have listened and made better and better bullets..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson:
The new .416 has the partition further forward and it always looses the front lead and the expanded bullets if you can recover them are long in the base expanded to 50 caliber and look like a Barnes X, so go figure.
QUOTE]


400 grain 416 Cal. recovered from a Bull Bison it only hit a rib bone and the shank is not long..





Another view




If you look in my post above I have a picture (recovered from an Asain Buffalo) of one that rupture the rear jacket and the lead flowed forward and is 3/16" below the base of the jacket.

If I live long enough to shoot up all the coffee cans full of partitions in my loading room, I will die a happy man.

I started reloading in 1952 and the bullet I began with was the Nosler partition. That was at Trinidad State. I have hunted many states and Africa since then and have killed almost all common game up thru Elephant. I have used Nosler Partitions exclusively as my hunting bullet in every case where it is available for that caliber. I have done very little experimenting with any other brand. Tried Swifts for practice and used Sisk for my 17 when I first built one but with those exceptions I have more or less stayed exclusive to Nosler only using Woodleigh's for solids when required by caliber and game such as the 470NE on Elephant and Woodleigh solids in my 375 for Elephant. In all those 56 years I have as yet to have a failure of a Nosler Partition on game. When I do my part it does it's part. I have not seen or heard any convincing reason to change and this forum has not changed my opinion.

One bullet really tells me nothing, All it tells me is you shot a Bison! I have posted many .416 Noslers in the past that are perfect. I have seen many good bullets of all makes fail. I have seen them all work well.

I have shot more than 20 Cape buffalo and a couple of Bison with the .416 and the 400 gr. Nosler in my hand loaded ammo at about 2350 FPS and it has performed to perfection...BTW I see nothing wrong with the bullet you pictured, it is expanded and it obviously killed the bison, so whats your point?

My point is quite clear, I have hangdguns that will exit with the same shot placement. I watched a gentleman shot completely through (and exit) a Large Bull Bison on angled shot with a 300 and a 180 TSX (and dropped the bull on the spot). Not my idea of the best bullet for a 416 caliber rifle and I am not overly excited about a bullet that ruptures the rear jacket and the bullet only encountered 2 rib bones

I posted pictures of two different 400 grain 416 bullets one from a Bison and one from an Asian Buffalo (the one that ruptured the rear jacket)
Take what you want from the info, but that is what happened and the only one that I have recovered that had a long shank was from wet News Print....

"Todays bullets are the best ever produced" That sez it all Ray. We are indeed blest.

quote:

My point is quite clear, I have hangdguns that will exit with the same shot placement. I watched a gentleman shot completely through (and exit) a Large Bull Bison on angled shot with a 300 and a 180 TSX (and dropped the bull on the spot). Not my idea of the best bullet for a 416 caliber rifle and I am not overly excited about a bullet that ruptures the rear jacket and the bullet only encountered 2 rib bones

You need to take a course in statistics
Shoot 30 of what ever it is you want tested and compare to 30 of everything else you think it should compare to.
Comparison to a handgun is silly. I am sure a solid bullet in your rifle will penetrate deeper.
One bullet is not a reliable statistic.

A good read...


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...rch=true#Post1828181

Originally, Nosler Partition bullets were made of some sort of brass/bronze alloy rather than gilding metal and the jackets were turned to size & length on automatic screw machines before the cores were inserted and the bullets swaged to final shape. Apparently toward the end of production of these bullets using this original fabrication technique, Nosler received a supply of this metal that turned out to be brittle to the point that the jacket petals broke off on expansion rather than folding back along the bullet shank in a classic mushroonm shape, as they had previously done. Many users complained about this, regarding such performance as a "bullet failure" (most of the bullets that acted this way did seem to produce dead game, however).

Shortly thereafter, Nosler indtroduced their "new design" for the Partition bullets, swaging jackets from a gilding metal alloy of some sort, which appears to be the same alloy currently used for the Partition bullet. Partition bullets made this way seem to perform acceptably. ALL of the old-style Nosler Partition bullets I've used personally, and have been able to recove, have shed the front core during penetration but the jackets have NOT lost their petals as they expanded. The petals folded back alongside the shank, and made a mushroom of about 2X the original bullet diameter. I still have a couple boxes of these old Noslers with the relief groove over the partition......

In some magazines you can read statments about one bullet fail because the solid look a little bit bent after recover it, or the Barnes loose the petals. Of course, if someone had recover it, is because THE ANIMAL WAS DEATH.

Advertisment create a fake idea that every bullet need to be like a mushroom after recover it to be "premium".

I don't like them after a few failure to expand episodes under a hundred.
284 hole in and out of the shoulder - upon skinning the deer (228lb SW Ok) was amazed at the exact perfect hole in and out.
Switched to a CT bullet - I know it is about the same - but have never had any more troubles.
Still use the 140gr Noslet bt in 7mm rem. Excellent performer on open country deer.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I started reloading in 1952 and the bullet I began with was the Nosler partition. That was at Trinidad State. I have hunted many states and Africa since then and have killed almost all common game up thru Elephant. I have used Nosler Partitions exclusively as my hunting bullet in every case where it is available for that caliber. I have done very little experimenting with any other brand. Tried Swifts for practice and used Sisk for my 17 when I first built one but with those exceptions I have more or less stayed exclusive to Nosler only using Woodleigh's for solids when required by caliber and game such as the 470NE on Elephant and Woodleigh solids in my 375 for Elephant. In all those 56 years I have as yet to have a failure of a Nosler Partition on game. When I do my part it does it's part. I have not seen or heard any convincing reason to change and this forum has not changed my opinion.

I sincerely doubt that a more resounding tribute could be written for the Partitions. My hat is off to you, Sir.