Im no doubt a fan of 7x57 and 300H&H type rounds and the proportioned rifles/actions they slide into.

However recently handling of wssm70 showed that it operated and feed amazingly well,carried and handled like a whiz-dream. If I wanted a real trim lite sheep rifle, id be hard pressed to pass a 25wssm up.

Also LooKn' at m70sawsm receiver for .30/350mag,McEdge (blind bottom?), #1 .570@22+".... I get weight reduction I want through smaller receiver&delete of bottom metal,slight more compact, but retain some barrel beef which I prefer over FW.

With inspiring rifles like we have seen recently,as below, great courtesy of SDH, I would not find myself too dissapointed with something like that in 300saum .570"@23"(I prefer saum shldr over wsm & really have no desire to duplicate a 300winMag. It sure would sure be nice to have an 8lb compact well handling and balanced .30cal thug like that KurzM98 sending 200gn@2650 or even a 9.3mmSaum286gn@2300 version.
Put it this way, I would not feel like I have not hunted Africa or enjoyed it any less if it was with a KurzSaum. I say this cause the dream rifle in mind for some time was Magnummauser 26"intgralfeature,drpbox.300H&H, and in some ways still is. The ones I handled at Reno,were indeed classic beauties, but weighed a ton.
I dont know bout U, but a saumy looking somethin like that below looks like serious fun to me.
If it was all about tradition we would not be using High Mvs',TSXs' rangefinders and telescopes either.
So to me the saumKurz does not seem that abstract in our modern gundom world....or do I need to take a pill and come back to review what I have posted?..

[/QUOTE]

Damn, what an awesome picture.

i handled a win 70 wssm too... i was suprised how much i liked the feel and handling of it.

thats one of the reasons i necked it up to 358 cuz i like a good medium bore...also a 6.5 version would be killer (pun intended)

BEE-U-TEE-FUL!...oh, and so is the kitty..

quote:

Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:
Damn, what an awesome picture.

Yeah but, it seems a little suspicious. There aren't any other rocks around, and that one the cat is resting on is very square...hmmmmm...and besides, how would you get that cat to lay still while you put that rifle on his back and propped it up???

Intriguing....

Really though, ABSOLUTELY beautiful!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Woodjack:
..or do I need to take a pill and come back to review what I have posted?.. QUOTE]

I vote the pill! roger

I see nothing wrong w/ the short mags. I like the SAUM design better than the WSM, wouldn't mind having one in .308 either, but built on a M70 or Ruger MKII. I also like traditional too, who doesn't like the .300h&h? It's more about ehat you like not what is trendy.

I really do not like them. I really do not see what is so grand about them. I lost the short action craze, and think the only thing they do better then the '06 family is to steel magazine capasity.
There is NO evidence that the case design gives better accuracy, so all by all, to me, it is a sales jippo.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
I really do not like them. I really do not see what is so grand about them. I lost the short action craze, and think the only thing they do better then the '06 family is to steel magazine capasity.
There is NO evidence that the case design gives better accuracy, so all by all, to me, it is a sales jippo.

IU roger

remember...the thread title was disease...

bartsche...i have never seen you so happy...

bent...does not the shorter fatter case give lass fps spreads and better burn consistancy that can add to accuracy???

have i become a gun manufacturers propoganda/gospel true believer???


sounds like a good thread for debate and pissing.

Choices Choices and more Choices that's what makes owning rifles worth while.

It is nice to have another reason to buy a differant rifle.

I don't own a short mag but if one comes along at the right price at the right time I'll buy one.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:

quote:

Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:
Damn, what an awesome picture.

Yeah but, it seems a little suspicious. There aren't any other rocks around, and that one the cat is resting on is very square...hmmmmm...and besides, how would you get that cat to lay still while you put that rifle on his back and propped it up???

Intriguing....

Really though, ABSOLUTELY beautiful!

i must say he was pretty brave to prop his gun on a napping cat... i would have liked to have seen the party that cat was at the night before to be passed out like that...he probably woke up next to an ugly kudu

Gidday Guys,

Some men love short fat women. Me I prefer long slim sexy ones. Who's right? To each there own and no one is wrong as long as you get a shot away and are happy with the result. Same with cartridges.

I don't like the 270 win because everyone else does. It doesn't mean that those who do are wrong, just for some silly reason I can't put my finger on I won't own one.

Thats my problem not theirs because I am limiting my own choices however I'm happy and thats all that counts to me.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

bent...does not the shorter fatter case give lass fps spreads and better burn consistancy that can add to accuracy???

Well, the way I see it, is that that kind of cases have some theoretical advances according to burn consistency, yes, but there is no way one can take out that in a heavy recoiling gun, as any hunting rifle is. For a 6mmPPC in a 18 lb gun - MAYBE. But I am not convinced, and I have never read any thing that prooves it. If one made a 6mm on a necked down .30 Remington with a small primer and got a really precisely reamer, I think it would be hard to tell which cartridge produced wich group. I think the small rifle primer have a lot more to do about it than its square shape, as the smaller primer pocket allows higher preassures before expanding, and THIS is what gives the better burn consistency, IMO.

Or does anybody have any proof that shows that the .300 WSSM have better accuracy than the .300 WinMag?

I'm not much on magnums until I get to the big bores. I do have an old 300H&H and a .338 that I dearly love, but I doubt any of them work any better than an 06 or .270 other than in the mind of the hunter with magnumitis. and that's OK its all about fun and games and what makes your heart pump.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I'm not much on magnums until I get to the big bores. I do have an old 300H&H and a .338 that I dearly love, but I doubt any of them work any better than an 06 or .270 other than in the mind of the hunter with magnumitis. and that's OK its all about fun and games and what makes your heart pump.

Well said, if you want one go for it

I like the way that rifle is configured above in the OP, shortened forend, slender proportions, barrel weight/length offset which a 6.5 can take advantage of......can you give us more details? Thanks Woodjack. Nice rifle, and heck, that kitty cat is not bad either, about like my bobcat! Congrats on the trophy.

6.5,
As said earlier, that image is courtesy of SDH.
I have handled that rifle, but I dont know the intimate details. I though posting it again with a different subject would not hurt. Its hard to get too much of that sort of thing.
Below is the post it came from.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=350101846#350101846

Did anyone else notice the article in last months Handloader mag where J. Barnsness took a Remington 700 action (blueprinted if I remember correctly) and a good barrel chambered for the 300 H & H and tested it for accuracy and velocity ? Then they removed the barrel cut it back , rechambered it for the 300WSM , replaced the barrel and ran the same tests with the same loads . The two cartridges apparently have almost exactly the same capacity . The results were too close to call either a winner . The H&H actually came out ahead by a few hundredths in group size , and the two averaged just five or ten feet per second different in velocity . Can't think of a better way to test the short/fat vs standard case concept than to shoot them down the exact same barrel . Can you ? It was enough to convince me that the short/fat concept is just hype .

Having owned and loaded for four WSM's I can emphatically say the Short Mag case creates more problems than it "solves."

Ken , in my book that Barsness test was somewhat skewed (with all due respect to John Barsness who I like alot)

They rechambered to WSM , using the same throat location, AFTER shooting the barrel as an H&H , and in fact shot the WSM in aproximately a half inch shorter barrel , at least as measured by any standard I have ever heard of .

To me this did show a very slight advantage to the WSM case shape , although it is not enough to get excited about.

The half inch shorter barrel had the exact same bore length as the H&H . True , you typically measure barrels from the back of the chamber , not from the throat , but having the bullet travel the same distance down the barrel seems a fairer test than giving the WSM an extra half inch of travel down the tube because the case is shorter .

quote:

having the bullet travel the same distance down the barrel seems a fairer test than giving the WSM an extra half inch of travel down the tube because the case is shorter .

roger

the best wsm is the 458!

actualy the 338-458

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Orlob:
The half inch shorter barrel had the exact same bore length as the H&H . True , you typically measure barrels from the back of the chamber , not from the throat , but having the bullet travel the same distance down the barrel seems a fairer test than giving the WSM an extra half inch of travel down the tube because the case is shorter .

So , if you compare a 30/06 with a 24 inch barrel , measured from the bolt face as usual , to a .308 barrel with identical outer dimentions , do you then have a .308 with a 24.5 inch barrel ?

Actually , the WSM has more than a half inch advantage. OAL cartridge length of around 2.8 inch versus 3.6 for the H&H .

Picking nits... they're essentially the same except the 300 H&H can be made to feed better whereas the 300 WSM fits in a shorter action.

I'd rather have a 300 WM than either...