"Are you going to buy a new or used rifle? I would go for used good quality rifle rather than cheap new one."

I tend to agree with Johan, most I buy are "used" guns. There are some good guns being made now but often very fine quality, vintage rifles can be had for less than the cost of current models. Commercial FN Mausers in particular come to mind.

When I was fifteen years old, I bought my first big game rifle. It was a Remington 700 ADL in .30-06, and I still have that rifle in my collection to this day. It was a very important rifle in my life, maybe the most important of them all, and I used it to take my first blacktail deer, mule deer, and elk.

Looking back on it, I'd still strongly consider the .30-06 as a first-rifle, but the .270 Win. and .280 Rem. seem to kill just as well as the '06, plus they kick a little less and shoot slightly flatter. If you're interested in a 7mm, the .280 Remington would be my choice hands down.

On today's market, I'd likely buy a Ruger 77 MK II in .280 Rem., plus a Leupold 2.5-8 VX III scope. Have a good gunsmith install the scope, adjust trigger, adjust the length of pull, and install a 1" Pachmayer Decererator recoil pad and you'll be set to go for many years to come.

AD

Critter, Many calibers, including all the ones you've mentioned, will work fine for whitetail. The real question is not how much recoil it takes to scare you, but how much recoil will affect your accuracy. I've hunted deer with rifles from .338 mag to .243 and I've learned that all other things being equal, you'll shoot better with less recoil. After 20+ years of doing most deer hunting with a 30'06, I switched to a stainless Win. 70 in .270 with a Boss muzzle brake/compensator. My recoil probably went down 2/3rds and my effective range actually went up because I shoot better. I would never hesitate inside 350 yards with 130 gr factory ammo for any North American whitetail. I only use my 7mm Mag in soybean fields where I know most shots will be beyond 300. If you're sure you'll shoot regularly beyond 300 or you might want to consider a 25'06, .284 or 7mm Mag. Otherwise I'd recommend a lighter recoil...260, 6.5x55, 7mm 08, or 270. This year I bought an ultra-lt. mt. gun in 7mm 08. I even put a muzzle brake on that. One more though, over the years I've switched to stainless steel and composite for everything but my varmint gun. They keep aimpoint better wet. They're lighter and way easier to care for. You don't need to use so much stinky stuff (Sheath et al) on them. I've kept records on the last @60 deer I've killed. After shot placement nothing matters as much as controling your scent. Hey, this is America! There are lot of great options. Let us know which way you go.

7-08, 280Rem, 7Rem mag would all be good choices for deer, with the 7mag being easier to find ammo for. The 308Win and 30-06 are also excelant choices, and much easier (and less expensive) to find ammo for.
Blue and wood requires a little more effort to keep nice than tupperware and stainless do, but neither is totaly impervious to the elements.
Barrel length rule of thumb, the more powder the cartridge uses, the longer the barrel it needs. 7-08/308 20-22" works well, 280/ 30-06 22-24", 7mag/300mag 24-26". You can get them shorter, but a 20" 7mag is no more powerful than a 20" 7-08 but with a much louder blast.
Barrel length affects trajectory only by the change in MV (trajectory is determined by the bullets BC and MV only, dosn't matter what cartridge it's launched from)

Well

280 rem or 7 rem mag is to me the most pratical. 24-25 inches of barrel is fine for standard cartridge and 26 inches would do for 7mm rem mag/7mm wby.

Are you going to buy a new or used rifle? I would go for used good quality rifle rather than cheap new one.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

I second Terry's views. The only modification I would make is to save up some extra nickles and go hunting for a custom Mauser or pre-64 someone else has spent big bucks customizing. It will cost you more than a new factory job, even with necessary tuning by a good gunsmith (and you should always have a new factory rifle tuned up by a good gunsmith) but a whale of a lot less than having the custom gun built yourself. Then you will really have a gun-for-life that will keep you happy for as many decades as you will hunt the local hills. Eventually you will have the income to hunt the local planet as well. Then get a .375!

How about a stainless 260? Don't know the size of your critters or the range you plan to shoot, but, the 120gr and 140gr bullets they shoot work well.

I need a bolt action that will take the elements i often squirrel hunt in. I was thinkin bout a Ruger or Remington, in a 280. or somthin in the 7mm family. And i need some info on barrel length how short is too short? And how long is too long? How does the legnth affect trajectory? I am not affected by recoil so magnums dont scare me. Any advice from anyone will surely help me out thnx. oh im around 250lbs. so magnums dont scare me.

thank you but for now i wont be able to buy any reloading tools. i will be shooting factory loads (gotta save that money for a x-box game hehheheheheh)

z1r, He's looking for a deer rifle. I trust he has another for the squirrel hunting.

Remington model 7 (with the 20" barrel) in 7-08 and the best 3x9x40 scope you can afford. Avoid see-thru mounts and big objective lenses.

Also, if you're 15 and weigh 250, you need to be giving some serious thought to which school is gonna offer you the best football scholarship. And, by all means, take it.

I second Johan's suggestion about a used gun. They're almost always a better buy no matter what gun you choose. At least in the northeastern US stainless steel guns with synthetic stocks are usually an even better buy used than blued steel and wood. Most gun buyers are extreme traditionalists regarding the appearence of a gun. I suspect it's because most deer rifles spend more time in the gun safe or at the range than in the field. In the US northeast the field would mean in the snow, rain, sleet, fog, mist, and misc. slop, where stainless steel guns with synthetic stocks are at their best. I for one, would prefer to worry no more about scratching a rifle stock when hunting than a hatchet handle when using that tool.

Well, went to some local shops today, thought really hard and decided. I'm getting a new savage with a synthetic stock, stainless steel 24'' barrel, with the new accutrigger. Its chambered in the new 270.WSM caliber. its a package deal,I get a sling, a case, and a scope to boot!And reasonably priced (around $500), and no i dont hunt squirrels with a large caliber, i use my grandfathers 22. marlin m60. Hate to see wut a 270.WSM would do to a tree rat. thnx for all ur help. i will be getting my rifle around wensday scince they have to order it. if u got anything on this rifle i might need to know about then plz tell me. Its a model 16fxp3.

Good work young man,
I can't begin to tell you how much happiness and satisfaction you will find in the hunting fields in the next 60 years. The two best weapons you will have for hunting are patience, and your mind.
JCN

That should do nicely. .270WSM is gaining a reputation for game-taking ability without too much recoil, Savage makes a good gun, stainless/synthetic should last you a long time with proper care. The only thing you may want to change eventually might be the scope, package deals normally skimp on a good scope, but it should be fine for 90% of the hunting and shooting you might do. Good Luck!

My first HP rifle was a brand-new M721 Remington in .30/'06. It cost me 82.50 in 1953, when I was your age. The .30/'06 is as good tyoday as in 1909, when President T.Roosevelt took one to Africa. I recommend you get one of these, in whatever bolt action rifle strikes your fancy. Then you can add other calibers later, if you are into amassing a large number of shootin' irons. SAs Captain Crossman said back in the '30's in his book about the Springfield rifle: "It is every freeborn American citizen's rtight to purchase a rifle cham,bered for a cartridge other than the .30/'06 Springfield. BUT, it is no great tribute to his intelligence if he does so!" This is just as true today as it was then! With the modern bullets now available for it, the .30/'06 is even better today than it has ever been previously.

Critter,
Yah done good! I'm looking forward to a range report.

The scope is a simmons 8-point 3-9x40 i think, any way i plan to replace it a lil later on. BUT on teh more seriouse side. I hear new rifle have to go thru a "breaking in the barrel" ritual, is this true? And just how do i do that? i got a cleaning kit that would work with the rifle if needed. most of my shots r gonna be within 150 yards, but i do have one shooting lane ( i already pick a hunting spot) that would be about 350 yards give or take. is this a reasonable distance to cleanly take a white-tale deer. An how could i where should i zero my rifle to hit all these distances? lots of questions but u r doing alot of good helping me along.

CK, a couple things I might mention.
First of all be sure and save all of your brass. You may not reload now but as much fun as you are going to have shooting your Savage you're going to want to later.
I like to sight in at 200yds dead on. With a 200 yd dead on site in you will only be about a inch and a half or so high at 100yds. At 300 to 350 yds you can hold just below the top of the back of a deer and never have to hold off hair.
Some hunters like to sight dead on at something like 275yd so that they will never be more than 3" high to 3" low all the way out to 350yds, but since I hunt with a laser and usually know the exact distance I'm shooting to I'd rather have it be a little more exact.
Some people recommend that you fire the first 20 shots cleaning after each shot. Personally I don't have the patience to do this on all my rifle and some experienced hunters wonder about how important that really is. If I were you I would clean the rifle when accuracy starts to fall of and not worry too much about break in. Just be sure you always clean the bore from the rear!
Good luck and let us know how you are doing.........DJ

I would think that a cz 550 in 6.5x55 with 140 gr bullets would be good. Mount a leupold 2-7 or 3-9 Vari X 1 in warne or talley mounts and you would be set. If you do not like 6.5x55 then I would suggest the 30/06 in the same combination.

I suggest a CZ Full Stocked 308 or a Sako Full stocked 308. They look cool, they are fun to shoot and they are accurate. At 15 you want something fun. The 308 is fun, GI ball ammo is cheap and you have great versatility in the cartridge. I have a few of those calibers you mentioned but I seem to wind up shooting the 308 the most.

I killed my first deer with a .270 when I was 15. One blast killed it deader than hell... The .270 WSM will surely get the job done for you.

Simmons Scopes:

I had a Simmons 8-Point on top of my .22. When I got my first 8x57 up and running, I took the scope off the marlin and put it on the mauser. After a about a 100 rds. of shooting and load development, the Simmons lost its ability to hold a zero. It was replaced with a Nikon Buckmaster which has held its zero through several hundred rounds, plus the normal wear and tear of hunting. It has been my experience that to a point, the more you spend on your scope the first time, the smaller the chance that you will have to spend some more later when you replace the scope after it "wears out." Therefore, buy the absolute best scope you can now and keep it as long as you keep your rifle.

Good Luck!

You will be wanting to upgrade the scope as soon as you can. My Model 70 Super Shadow in .270WSM also came with very cheap aluminum mounts and a Simmons 8 Point 3x9 scope. I will probably buy another Ruger 10/22 and mount the Simmons on that. I replaced it with a Burris Fullfield II and Leupold STD mounts, and am very happy with it for my "do it all" rig. With the 140 gr Nosler Accubond bullet, pushed by 65.0 gr of Vihtavuori N-165 and a Federal 210 primer, it should be getting just over 3000 fps out the muzzle. The identical load with a Nosler Ballistic Tip is great for practice and varmints. Enjoy your new Savage, I would be quite surprised if it isn't very accurate in .270WSM.
As for barrel break in, some folks recommend one shot, then clean, for 10 shots. Then 3 shot groups, followed by cleaning for another 10 groups. I don't know what is best, but breaking in a barrel is probably a good idea to help smooth it so excessive fouling won't be a problem later.
If you zero factory .270WSM ammo to hit 1 and 1/2 inches high at 100 yards, you should be dead on at 200 and only about 6 inches low at 300. If you want it dead on at 300 yards, sight in around 3 1/2 inches high at 100, you would still be aroiund 4 inches high at 200, but dead on at 300 and around 10 inches low at 400. Hopefully you can use the dead on at 200 sight setting and get within 300 yards of your target. Have fun.

What kind of scope would be best staying at about a $100? i will have very limited funds after getting the rifle and ammo. i really want a 4-12 or a 3-9.

Critter,
If your really going to shoot 350 yrd.s I'd recommend a 200 yrd. zero.
Your gun will shoot flat enough to gestimate anything reasonable. If you plan to shoot that far very much you'll need a rangefinder. Range becomes very important beyond 300 yrd.s and estimating it accurately in the field is very difficult. Deer, trees and brush don't come in a standard sizes. On your budjet I'd keep the scope you've got until you can afford a better one used. If you hunt where it's wet (I still don't know what kind of country you hunt) a good used Leupold would be a good value and the things are just about bulletproof. I have never seen on fog. A very important consideration where I hunt. The Bushnell 4200's seem a good value too. I really doubt if you need x-14. 2-8 or 3.5-10 max is plenty for most deer hunting inside 400 yrd.s for a guy with youthful eyes. Such scopes are lighter and all other things being equal they're less prone to damage. Good luck.

i hunt in varying weather one month very dry, the next u wish for sun. i live in the very deer filled south western part of Georgia.Also i was thinking more along the lines of a leupold, but nikon is wut i really want. my uncle uses one and swears by them. 3-9x40 would be plenty enough scope for my country i guess i have bad eyes and need better glasses. i should be using a lever action 30-30 but i really liked the way a long range rifle sounded and i still do.large bean fields and peanut patches prevent my use of a 30-30 or larger caliber (u wouldnt believe teh 1/2 mile wide peanut patch 3 miles from my house).

Id pick the 30-06, that mundane old caliber will kill anything that walks, talks, breaths or crawls and the more I use it them more I'm convinced it is the best caliber in the world..It just does it all...

I went through all the calibers at one time or another and ended up with what I started with, the great Spingfield 30-06...

My 15 year old son uses a Ruger M77 in 7x57. Sweet rifle.

i read some stuff that peaked my intrest for handloading. how would i go about doing so? how much is a regular cost of supplies? where can i get these supplies?

I just got a call from the guy at teh gun shop. The rifle is a 270wsm 24'' stainless steel barrel, black synthetic stock, carry case, cheap simmons scope (3-9x40), nylon sling, and he also noted that this piticular (dont mind my spelling) model also has an adjustable muzzle break!!!!!!! im reall exited about that.

Critter if you want to do this only once here is my recommendation. Get a 30-06 Remington 700 or if you can afford it a Winchester Model 70 Classic Super Grade. Put a Leupold 3.5x10x40 VXIII on it in Talley mounts or the best scope and mounts you can afford. Go hunting. Either of the above rigs will let you take just about anything that walks if you use the right bullet for the job and there is a greater variety of ammunition and bullet types for the old '06 than anything else out there. Shoot a lot, try to wear the thing out. That will get you better results than any other single thing you can do. Good luck.

Critter,
Get a used Leupold scope to go on your 06...A used Leupold has a lifetime guarentee and you can get it checked, repaired if needed, and returned in 7 working days at no charge..best bargin going....

Sounds like your choice of caliber is ideal for the wide open spaces and if you protect your ears I think you'll like the muzzle brake. You'll want a rangefinder eventually. You can use the Savage muzzle brake at the range USING EAR PROTECTION and turn it off when you hunt or hunt with it USING EAR PROTECTION. The brake will make the noise at your end much more damaging to your hearing. Take that from someone who lost some high feq.s in my right ear during the folly of my youth to M-16's. When it's gone it's gone.

UH, i said i was excited about muzzle break. didnt say i knew much about it. the guy said it was similar to the BOSS muzzle break. but i dont know how to turn them on or off. (i would like to know as much about the rifle im getting before i get it) and about internal mags, r tehy detatchable do i load from the top? i know my calibers i know most rifles but a savage i know very lil about. my uncle who has many rifle (but wont let me shoot any) says he has some scopes i could choose from including a khales with a TDS plex. but i think ima stick with wut i got from now.

can ya tell im trying to get my number of posts up? when do i get a ONE OF US status?