quote:

The slickest feeding action and cartridge ever is the 30-40 Krag in a Krag rifle. It is so smooth I sometimes have to open the action just to convince myself it chambered a round.

Jerry Liles

This

Any pre War Mannlicher Schoenauer in any caliber!

I have not tried them buit the post war Magnum MS / Syres may also fit that label.

I would say the 6,5x55 in a Krag&Jørgensen is hard to beat. Nothing I know of is smoother than the Krag.

One last try......


Question was CARTRIDGE !

NOT CARTRIDGE/RIFLE combo.

If that WERE the question, try to beat a Winchester 63, a Browning Semi_Auto 22, any number of match grade 1911s or S&W/Colt/High Standard 22RF match pistols.

You put it wrong. Cycle a "streamlined" cartidge through a rough action and it will hang up here and there. Try a short magnum aberration in a smooth and/or straight line action and it will feed butter slick.

If I were concentrated I would define it more precisely… I really meant the CARTRIDGE/RIFLE combo! However based on your reactions there is something common - the British cartridges with tapered cases are still the first choice for reliable smooth feeding.

CZ

quote:

Originally posted by CZ:
If I were concentrated I would define it more precisely… I really meant the CARTRIDGE/RIFLE combo! However based on your reactions there is something common - the British cartridges with tapered cases are still the first choice for reliable smooth feeding.

CZ

Actually not in my opinion . The 6.5 X 55 in the Krag rifle makes it at "least" a dead even proposition. roger

7.62x39 in an AK-47

Anything in a GEW88/05.
Straightline feed with a rimless round using a Mannlicher type bolt.

I rarely get to my computer these days, but let me ask you this:

What is the slickest feeding cartridge with no action to feed it through (As the Q was modified by Shaw)? With no action involved, is it even being fed at all? I don't think so...

That is essentially what is being asked by the original poster when reference to the action it is fed through is eliminated from consideration.

If the action IS considered, along with the cartridge, as it must be to get a meaningful response (IMO), then I would say it still depends on whether the combo is restricted to factory-built rifles or one which has been slicked up by a skilled and knowledgeable craftsman/mechanic.

The slickest factory-built rifle/cartridge combos I have experened have been rotary magazine rifles such as the Mannlicher Schoenauers chambered for the cartridges they were originally built for. (And they WERE built to fit specific cartridges).

Close behind have been the single column mag Mannlicher/Steyrs, and the various Krags.

Among slicked up actions are a pre-war Model 70 .30-06 which was done by a customer named Fred Ulderik (SP?) of the Custom Gun Shop (Edmonton, Alta) in Erv Heiman's late '60s ownership days.

I have owned a bunch of factory .300 H&H and .375 H&H rifles and none of them fed as well, let alone better than those listed above without also first being slicked up.

(The big name English rifles , Rigby, etc., were all slicked up firearms of one sort or another.)

Hey, how are ya'll feeling?

It's great to see you making a post again A.C.
Hang in there!

Phil has it right. AK 47s ALWAYS work !

Hi, Biebs and Rae.

Sorry I didn't say anything personal to you yesterday, but didn't have the breath, energy, or stamina to write again.

I miss you guys, and almost evewryone else here at AR, but though things don't seem much worse, they don't seem any better either.

Some days I do get to lurk for 10-15 minutes but won't be posting very often.

You guys take care of yourselves, and don't forget to stop and amell the gunpowder. Life is too short even for the luckiest among us.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
One last try......


Question was CARTRIDGE !

NOT CARTRIDGE/RIFLE combo.

If that WERE the question, try to beat a Winchester 63, a Browning Semi_Auto 22, any number of match grade 1911s or S&W/Colt/High Standard 22RF match pistols.

And I will make one last try also. Without the action, no cartridge feeds at all!!

So the question has inherent in it both the cartridge and the action through which it is fed. Almost everyone here undertstood that.

So, I gather your vote is actually for the .22 LR in a semi-auo action over both the .300 and .375 H&Hs.

Thank you for making that clear.

Well Albert, if you wish to talk ACTION and CARTRIDGE, a 63 or Browning will put more lead down range faster with less "bobbles" any hand operated rifle.
Among centerfire, Phil, who does have a "bit" of rifle experience voted for the 7.62x39 in an AK 47 as it has a "work anytime" operating system (semi-auto) with a smooth feeding cartridge designed for an assault rifle.
When it comes to a hand operated rifle, I'll stick with a Holland & Holland magazine rifle chambered for the 300 H&H with the 375 and 400 H&H coming in close behind.

Insofar as cartridge alone goes, the 300 H&H wins hands down even in a rough old Interarms magnum Mauser action or a push feed 721.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
Well Albert, if you wish to talk ACTION and CARTRIDGE, a 63 or Browning will put more lead down range faster with less "bobbles" any hand operated rifle.
Among centerfire, Phil, who does have a "bit" of rifle experience voted for the 7.62x39 in an AK 47 as it has a "work anytime" operating system (semi-auto) with a smooth feeding cartridge designed for an assault rifle.
When it comes to a hand operated rifle, I'll stick with a Holland & Holland magazine rifle chambered for the 300 H&H with the 375 and 400 H&H coming in close behind.

Insofar as cartridge alone goes, the 300 H&H wins hands down even in a rough old Interarms magnum Mauser action or a push feed 721.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

WELL ART, if YOU Want to talk about rough Mauser actions, the .300 Magnum may feed best IF THE ACTION IS LONG ENOUGH FOR IT (many unaltered rough Mauser actions are not), and if the rails don't allow the front of the cartridge to pop up too soon (which may allow the bullet to jam up against the rear of the barrel, etc., etc.).

That is why Mauser originally Made its commercial sporter actions to fit the cartridges for which they were chambered. With a little hand fitting at the factory, they were all very smooth (for a box-fed type of action).

It is also why H&H and all the others originally chambering the .300 H&H and .375 H&H had to lengthen the space inside most of the Mauser actions they built their rifles on.

Doesn't matter. When you wrote that "rough Mauser" bit,you were specifying AN ACTION. Same with your Model 721 bit.

Fact is, the .300 H&H doesn't feed the smoothest from any and all unspecified and/or unmodified actions. Nor does the .375 H&H. And certainly not from actions such as the Austro-Hungarian 8x56R actions, or the Krags, or many others.

So to know which is the smoothest, you have to talk which combos of action and cartridge are the smoothest. Without the action, just specifying the cartrridge alone is meaningless.

And I hope that clears up YOUR confusion.

OK, I'll take another stab at this from a sporting view
For a bolt rifle it would be hard to argue with a well honed M-70 in .300 H&H
Or for ultimate in smooth reliability how about a Farqharson in the same chambering?

However I have used quite a few rifles over the past half century and don't remember anything smoother feeding than my well worn Mauser 458 Win. You literally do not feel them slither up from the magazine and slide into the chamber.

Having had the privilege to fondle Phil’s 458 Win, known affectionately as "Ole Ugly", I can attest to the smoothness of its action

quote:

Originally posted by DuaneinND:
I find it interesting that so many responded with the 300 H&H, I guess nobody has heard all the demon speak about belted magnums! It was one of the first cartridges that popped into mind when I saw the question. The 7x57 is another cartridge that seems to always feed very smooth.

I just love the response. Heaven forbid it has a belt .

Ken....

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:


and don't forget to stop and amell the gunpowder. Life is too short even for the luckiest among us.

Smelled a lot of gun powder today. A good bit of it was coming from my smooth feeding CZ 527 American varmint in .223 that is used as a single shot. Been thinking about you AC. roger

Albert I assume you have never been to an H&H gun room and had the opportunity to fondle several of their "magazine rifles" built on Magnum Mauser actions, not hacked out 98s. As with most things, you get what you pay for and they cost a great deal of our worthless paper money.

Sorry you failed to catch up with the change in the thread to "an action with a cartridge".
Phil may well be correct about his 458 but I don't own one so am unqualified to speak to that combination. It's too bad that others who have no experience with the 300 H&H in a bolt gun (or single shot) are not humble enough to admit as much. I own/have owned 13 300 H&Hs over the years
from 721s to 700s to 70s to P14s to Magnum Mausers, to Browning Safaris to stretched 03s to Highwalls to Ruger No.1s. NEVER a failure to feed, go bang or extract/eject.
It is pointless to debate a subject with those who don't understand why H&H invented the belt and why the 300/375/400 H&H carry the shape they do. There is, simply, no valid critique of the 300 H&H as the best designed cartridge for faultless feeding. When you can find one from an experienced PH, big game hunter (100+ kills) or expert gunsmith you be sure to let us dunderheads know.
Maybe if you bought a quality one and put a few 1000 rounds downrange, you would see the light.

One trip to WB for checkeering, two trips to Camp Perry, never any excuses.




CZ makes this one in 300 H&H, might be a good starter for you.

you are all wrong, the slickest is the .280 Ross in a 1910 Ross sporter, next is the same rifle in .303 British.

I know this is not going to be a popular answer. But to be honest, my slickest action has got to be my rack and pinion BLR.. And I would also throw out a plug for the 1903 Springfield/06 for smooth.

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
... Sauer 202 are among the smoothest in my opinion.

My 30-06 in a Sauer 202 TD.
But I've not tried a 300 H&H!

quote:

Originally posted by buckbrush:
you are all wrong, the slickest is the .280 Ross in a 1910 Ross sporter, next is the same rifle in .303 British.

Yes it is right up there, but the correct size bullets are hard to find. I had to have a "bump up" die built to get .287 bullets for my Red Stag rifle that came out of Scotland after the big UK gun grab. The super skinny 28" barrel is also not too good for more than 2 shots.

It would probably have been much more accurate to title this thread:
"Which cartridge lends itself to be the slickest feeding one of all times".

I currently have a .375 H&H in a CZ 550 rifle. The rifle/cartridge combo is anything BUT smooth feeding. To say that I couldn't tell if the case was chambered after cycling the bolt would be an out in out lie. With each cycling of the bolt, the action leaves a big ugly scratch on each and every case. And you can hear the cartridge grinding it's way into the chamber.

By contrast, just yesterday, I was cycling live, loaded 270 WSM ammo through my Winchester Mod. 70 CRF with out a single hitch. (Never had any feeding issues either)
Now, as we all know, from several experts, the WSM line of cartridges are the worst feeding, over-pressured, over-priced, magazine capacity eating, sorriest line of soon-to-be-extinct cartridges ever developed. Unfortunately this news never made it to either of my two Winchester M-70 WSM rifles and from what I have read, some other WSM manufacturers as well. Both feed flawlessly with out ever a issue.
(p.s.- I've never regretted buying either WSM, the 270 or the 300)

None of this means that I think the H&H is poor feeding cartridge and the WSM is not. I am merely pointing out that it is the action design and construction quality ALONG WITH the case design that makes it a good feeder.
One aspect can easily over shadow the other aspect.
Just like Alberta Canuck was pointing out.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rae59:
It would probably have been much more accurate to title this thread:
"Which cartridge lends itself to be the slickest feeding one of all times".

I currently have a .375 H&H in a CZ 550 rifle. The rifle/cartridge combo is anything BUT smooth feeding. To say that I couldn't tell if the case was chambered after cycling the bolt would be an out in out lie. With each cycling of the bolt, the action leaves a big ugly scratch on each and every case. And you can hear the cartridge grinding it's way into the chamber.

QUOTE]

THE ABOVE APPLIES TO MY CZ 550 RIFLE .375 H&H.

CZ if you are representative of CZ firearms company (and not just an individual that chose the name "CZ") your guns could be great GIVEN MORE CARE IN THEIR BUILD. As pointed out above my CZ 550 leaves that same nasty scratch on each & every case. What's up with that?

If you are using this site for marketing research you're in the right place but do something with the info you garner from the users of your products.

I guess they have improved the WSMs feeding issues as I have seen several M 70s eject the whole magazine out the top when the bolt was cycled rapidily. Doubt they will be obsolete soon as a ton of "gotta have the latest" shooters have bought them. The 300 H&H will be 100 years old in 2020, won't see it, but will be interesting to see if the WSMs are around (or if we even have guns) on the 100th birthday of the WSM.
Gently tapered longer cartridges always feed the best, all other things being equal. Always have, always will. That's why the 338 Lapua has more taper than the 338 RUM as the Lapua had to work in full auto weapons where feeding is always tougher than the slow cycling of a bolt action.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
Gently tapered longer cartridges always feed the best, all other things being equal. Always have, always will.

Slick and best feeding are not exactly the same. For flawless feeding I would have to vote fot the Mauser 7X57.. But it isnt going to win the slickest action contest. I have to admit, in the slick category those old Krags could teach teflon a thing or two.

A 7x57 feeds no differently than any of the medium length cartridges that resemble it.
(257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 7.5 Swiss, 7.65 Argentine, 8x57 Mauser, 9x57 mauser etc.)

The 30-40 Krag has a lot of body taper.

Rather difficult to find any Krag with 300 H&H ballistics.

Then there are the cracked bolt lug issue and glacial reloading time.

Did I mention ugly ?

If you are happy with sub 308 ballistics, a 303 smelly is just as smooth, faster to cycle, reloads quickly, holds more rounds and is no less beautiful.

300 H&H rules.

Youve gone off on about 6 or 8 tangents. The OP was about slickest feeding.. I never said the Krag was pretty, powerfull or solid.. Just slick. But since you mentioned it, the H&H doesnt rule squat, unless you like getting 64mm worth of performance from a 72mm case..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhMW_bodQVo

A 6,5 Krag reloading glacially.

That youtube video is great!
Thanks for posting that 900 SS.

577 nitro in a searcy double rifle... hands down, the slickest feeding rifle i have ever handled..

900 SS

That "ugly" old Krag sure is slow!

Where can I get the clips he's using to load the magazine and can they work with my slow, ugly old 30-40?

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
900 SS

That "ugly" old Krag sure is slow!

Where can I get the clips he's using to load the magazine and can they work with my slow, ugly old 30-40?

Jerry Liles

A Lee-Enfield shooter that used the same bolt manipulation technique once fired 37 rounds in a minute.

quote:

Originally posted by CZ:
For medium game...
For big game...
What is your experience?

CZ

I thought it was the 308, but likely it's not.

quote:

Originally posted by artshaw:
300 H&H

This

My 6.5 x 55 feeds like a train on rails, smooth as, just the way it came from the Sako factory and the easiest mag I have ever had to load.