So what options are available for building a 338 Lapua and keeping costs under $2000?

Magazine or singleshot could work.
Lighter better than heavier.
No muzzle break.
9" twist would be a nice extra.
pushfeed is OK, since this is a non-African "all-around".

What are your goals with it?

Long range shooting?
Off hand hunting?


A CZ 550 in 416 Rigby could be a reasonable starting point.

I've always preferred building them on a ss action. A stiller will take half of your budget but you'll save the cost of bottom metal for the beast. If you can do some work yourself, have the action barreled and find an oversized laminate blank and get busy. Still will run over $2000 by a bit though.

If long range..

https://surgeonrifles.com/shop/1581xl-single-shot/

McMillan A-5

S&B 5-25x56

Atlas bipod

Spuhr mount

Good silencer



But, its a bit north of $2K

just a thought; would you consider a 338 Edge instead? Run a 375 RUM thru the Edge FL sizing die, and Voila! 338 Edge. It is just the FL RUM case. Very, very close to the Lapua as far as MV, and brass is much cheaper.

Any 30-06 length cartridge OM 70 rifle/action, a rebore, and some fit/feed work and you are there. Jim Kobe took an OM 70 action that started life as an '06 and turned it into a 460 G&A (aka 458 RUM) that works flawlessly for me. There is also a 35 Whelen in the classifieds built on a VZ 24. A barrel and some of Jim's magic and it could work as well. My VZ is a 404 J, so we know it is suitable.
Send that 35W to JES, have a barrel fit, chambered and headspaced; along with the feed fit work, and you are in business.

jmho,

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
What are your goals with it?

Long range shooting?
Off hand hunting?


A CZ 550 in 416 Rigby could be a reasonable starting point.

The idea of a 338 Lapua would be a hunting rifle for shoulder carry.
The cartridge would be able to cross a canyon should the need arise.

The problem with many donor rifles is the initial expense, especially if only to get an action. Are Weatherby Mark V actions ever up for auction on Gunbroker? I've never tracked them.

The Lapua, of course, wants the 'super-magnum' boltface (.590"). A new CZ will run about $1200, then needing rebarreling, chambering, and maybe some trigger work. Of course, I already have a CZ 416 Rigby in the US for load development and shooting fun, but I think I'll just keep it a 416. Nice caliber, too. The Lapua would be a new rifle.

quote:

just a thought; would you consider a 338 Edge instead?

Yes, I have considered the 338 Edge. But the Lapua comes with headstamped brass over the counter, and you can get Lapua-brand brass, too.

The 338 Lapua is such an excellent round, why bother wildcatting a longer, thinner cartridge? I suppose that I am expecting that the 338 Lapua is going to be a keeper into the future. I've noticed that even Weatherby offers their Mark V's in 338 Lapua, though the MSRP prices start around $2500. Weatherby adds $300 to the Accumark sticker for a round with a .590" boltface.

understood.

Option B: just buy a CZ 550 Magnum action from Brownells and build exactly to suit. Bolt face is already correct, and the frame rails, etc need not rework. Contact AHR and get a take off stock from wayne.

I think you could come in for well under your $2K budget.

Rich

the 338 RUM will be within 50 FPS of the Lapua. If you really want to run one out there a long throated 338 Lapua AI on a single shot action will get you very close to 3000fps if not a hair over with the 300gr bergers. The sierras will still be in the upper 2900's.

For my 495a^2, I got the Cz action from brownells ( before price increase) for $750,
McGowan barrel blank for $200 delivered,
And this stock from Cz
19922 fancy American stock 550 safari magnum. EA. 450.00

Wood nicely figured, double cross bolts, reasonable pad, etc
So, when gets finished, maybe $2200.

I've seen a couple new complete Savage rifles available for under $1000. The have a muzzle brake but I'm sure that would come off. Can't imagine the recoil without a brake, even at 11-12 pounds.

shortly try find used Sako TRG-S 338 lapua. Sako not make those anymore but there should be somewhere used gun. New stock from McMilland and you have really great gun by this marvellous caliber.

The cheapest would be to get an off the shelf savage. Personally, I think the cartridge is overrated. The .338 edge or even the 338 Rum will give up very little performance to the Lapua. I have a heavy .338 edge built on a savage action. I can push 300 grain pills to 3000ft/sec at the cost of accuracy. My most accurate loads are around 2850 though. The cheapo Remington brass has lasted 5 reloadings at that level. You my want to reconsider the brake, I shot my edge prone without the brake and getting scoped was a concern.

quote:

You my want to reconsider the brake, I shot my edge prone without the brake and getting scoped was a concern.

The Nikon Inline scope 3-9 has 5-inch eye-relief throughout. Find a way to mount it with its 4.73" mounting space and you're good to go. I wouldn't want a brake, myself.

On brass, the 338 Lapua would allow you to get Lapua brass. Pretty nice stuff.

As for the Edge vs. RUM, that's twiddledee and twiddledum in the real world. Yes, both would hold their own with the Lapua, within 25-50fps other things equal, though the Lapua would allow an extra 1/8" inch of bullet projection for long bullets because of the shorter case. The 338 Norma allows an extra 1/3" inch bullet projection but it doesn't have Lapua brass.

Check with Montana Rifle Company for a complete rifle to your specs.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
So what options are available for building a 338 Lapua and keeping costs under $2000?

338/378 Accumark

Brass is easy as you also have 30/378 and 378.

And more case capacity than the Lapua.

Hey Canadian...

I'm working with my Lapua and 300 gr Berger Match in my Savage 111 Long range hunter and so far I'm not getting much over 2600 fs with Retumbo, RL22 and 25 and 7828 without a stiff bolt lift.

QL isn't cooperating with any 300 gr/3000 fs loads either.

WHAT powder are you using?

RL33 which is designed for Lapua doesn't get into those numbers with a 300 gr bullet...

A 250 gr will hit 3000 though with several powders in the Lapua/Edge/Rum/Weatherby size cases, all of which run similar volumes.

A full length Rigby case necked to 338 will give you an additional 10-12 128-130 gr H20 Volume and is just a rechamber with a "338 Rigby" reamer or you could blow it out a bit and get into the near 140 gr range....cheaper than the 378 Weatherby cases I'm guessing.

As usual...there are a ton of way to go depending...on how much money you want to spend and just what you want it for...an off the shelf Savage Lapua will take care of long range and hunting...mine is doing ~3/4" with 300 gr Berger's and 285 Horn's seated to 3.75" longest for the mag...3.83" just touching the lands...and I haven't even began to do the benchrest stuff...just two at a time over the chrono for velo's.

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:

in the Lapua/Edge/Rum/Weatherby size cases, all of which run similar volumes.

338/378 is a fair bit bigger than the others, unless you are referring to the 340 Wby. Over a few 340 Wbys with 26" and both Mark Vs and custom barrels the 250 grainers have topped out around 2950 f/s plus or minus a bit.

Yes...I understand the differences in case volume and design parameters between the 378 W and the 340 W cases.

If you REALLY want to go to the edge you could start with the Gibbs based 338 Xtreme at ~168 Gr H20 and not whizz around with the "small stuff"...But the OP was talking about wanting a 338 Lapua and that was what I was addressing.

MB's are always a bone of contention...My Lapua has a HUGE one and works like a dream...The 300 gr Lapua loads I've been testing of late have LESS recoil than my 338-06 225 gr loads from rifles that weigh 11 and 10 lbs respectively...my 338-06 will rock me back and lift about a foot off the bench rest...the Lapua just whacks me a bit and lifts about 2" and I can't tell much difference between the noise produced by either one.

quote:

Originally posted by NONAGONAGIN:
Hey Canadian...
WHAT powder are you using?

I have been using H1000. I just bought a pound of N570 but I have't got the chance to run it over the chronograph. My savage is a single shot with a longer throat to increase case capacity and has a 30'' tube. I have been getting good accuracy with 92.1 gr of H1000.

Thanks...I have some of that and it's next on my list to try, today hopefully at lest for velo/pressure readings...I've done 22, 25, 7828 and Retumbo. Just bought some Magpro yesterday and I'm trying to find some RL-33...33 seems to be a very popular powder in the Lapua now...50-100 fs more velo at similar pressures.

Yeah...a 30" tube and long throat would help...I found a nice 338 L link on Snipershide with 2 pages of data going back a couple years and Ammoguide has a ton of loads but none hitting the magic 3 large with 300 grainers...most of the tubes were 24-28".

I had planned on doing a 30" 50 cal barrel for my 510 Makatak, 50 cal blown out Rigby, using my Savage 111 LRH and also a 28-30" 338 using the Rigby case...same case design except for the smaller dia neck, but someone already beat me to it...called the 338 Wyatt...number crunching with QL indicates it would get very close if not pass with a 30" tube and a longer throat. I'll probably ffphatt and fall before getting that done.

Very similar to A-Squares 338 Excalibur although cases might be hard comeby...WHERE can you find a 3" Rigby dimension case??? Maybe going to the 505 Gibbs case and doing a bit of chewing on the rim??? Only need to lose ~0.045". Maybe turning a rim/groove on a 50-140 case??? Ahhhhhh...gett'n' crazy here again.

Thanks again

I know the 338/416 Improved is widely used but for me I would be wary of building a gun around one. I would do a 338/378 Imp and simply because dies/reamers are easier without the Wby shoulder plus there is some wasted space with that long neck.

I know for a fact that Norma branded Wby calibres can be softer brass than Wby branded brass.

A mate of mine who posts on AR as Blair 338RUM has a 22/240 Wby. Was using Wby branded brass and decided to buy some Norma branded 240 brass because a fair bit cheaper. I warned him to back off the loads to start with and sure enough the stuff is softer.

And yes, I know Norma make both.

Another thing with Rigby brass they only need to make it suitable for a 400 grain bullet at 2300-2400 or thereabouts.

quote:

Another thing with Rigby brass they only need to make it suitable for a 400 grain bullet at 2300-2400 or thereabouts.

I run the Hornady 416Rigby brass at 6200ftlbs (.416"-350gn-2825fps) in a CZ 416Rigby without pressure problems.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Another thing with Rigby brass they only need to make it suitable for a 400 grain bullet at 2300-2400 or thereabouts.

I run the Hornady 416Rigby brass at 6200ftlbs (.416"-350gn-2825fps) in a CZ 416Rigby without pressure problems.

Yes, realise that.

However, think of using Sierra Matchkings for game as plenty of people do and with good results. However, Sierra say "No go" and for good reason. They could change the design of that bullet and its performance on game is not a consideration. For example, back in the 1970s the Sierra Matchkings were FMJs.

If I wanted 2600-2700 from a 416 I would have a 416 Wby.

I can also tell you that Hornady brass has varied.

quote:

I can also tell you that Hornady brass has varied.

Now that Hornady runs the 375Ruger and 416Ruger I suspect that they will keep their brass formulae up for 60k psi loads.

PS: you're welcome to the 416Weatherby. No flies on it. Costs a bit more is all. When, Lord willing, I pass 70 I might consider a 416Ruger in a short 20" barrel Alaskan, assuming that they resume making those sometime again.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

I can also tell you that Hornady brass has varied.

Now that Hornady runs the 375Ruger and 416Ruger I suspect that they will keep their brass formulae up for 60k psi loads.

Not a guarantee across all their brass.

These days you would not know who made the brass and could be different for different calibres.

As a side note Winchester and Remington brass is much softer today than about 1995 and back. Also looks different on the solid head.

My belief is the brass is made softer because of litigation issue. As you know as you increase the pressure of the load then another grain of powder makes a much bigger difference.

Soft brass is why you see "pressure spikes" mentioned so much these days. That is because the accurate load is often much closer to ejector mark or loose primer pocket than was the case many years ago.

I have both the Edge and Lapua, and I think I prefer the Lapua. Factory brass is much more available. Ironically, I prefer Nosler to Lapua.

I also use Nosler .300 RUM brass to make my Edge brass.

I have three 300 RUMs as well and found out the hard way not load RUM and Edge the same day (more than once i have seated a .338 bullet in the RUM).

One thing is for sure: the 300 Berger is in a league of its own when it comes to the wind.

Now that we have hashed that over, how about for a lefty?

Jim

quote:

Are Weatherby Mark V actions ever up for auction on Gunbroker? I've never tracked them.

Not a .338 but a .30-378 and for sale in UK.

Weatherby .30-378 at Auction

I have never thought much of the cartridge since I shot and chronographed a Sako in the early 1990's. Nicely equalled a 340 Weatherby but kicked harder. I have built a couple but still don't like the cartridge all that much. A rifle which performs well with a thirty inch barrel is no longer a practical hunting rifle if one hunts on foot.
As a long range target round. it works well enough and I can almost accept it for that purpose but don't think it is enough better than 7mm or 30 cal cartridges which do the same thing with less fuss and for less money. Regards, Bill

Yea, I agree. I like the 338s but if it is not scalable to my needs, I don't want it. For example, if I wanted a cross canyon shooter in 338, I would probably do a 340 wby or RUM but keep it at 24". Another consideration is what "cross canyon" shots mean? If it's the front half of 1200 yards then even a 338 win mag can handle that. If it's the back half, then you are looking at a rifle the beyond the scope of what I would be looking for. When I chopped my last 340 down from 26 to 24 I literally lost only 50 fps on average. To me there is no longer an advantage going past a 340 24".

I can't see the point of the Lapua.

The 338/300 RUM or Edge gives about the same capacity and with normal bolt face etc.

For me, if I am going to have the inconvenience/cost associated with the big case then the 338/378 is the answer. Good for brass availability as the distributor in Australia will always have at least brass in either 30/378 and 378 if they don't have any 338/378.

Nice post, McG, I can see your point.

While Lapua brass would be nice to use, we need some inexpensive rifles with .590" boltface to make the 338 Lapua popular.

Without those, I would probably stay with the 338WinMag, a lot of bang for buck (a Yankee idiom). And a rechamber with a 338/375Ruger version comes in second for me--unless an inexpensive 338RUM rifle were to hit the market. I like to see rifles based around $1000 or less.

It's funny what turns people on with guns/calibres and for keen blokes logic is not often a strong point.

A mate of mine who posts on AR as Blair 338RUM had the 338 RUM on two of his African trips. However, the annual African safaris are finished for him and have been replaced the annual trip to Paris

So he sold his 338 RUM, it was an accuracy rifle but hunting configuration and Jewell trigger, Nightforce scope etc. However, before he put it up for sale he had it (and a second 338RUM barrel for it) rechambered to 338 Edge and because the 338 Edge would sell quicker and at a better price than left as a 338 RUM.

Interesting that the wildcat in this case would sell quicker and at a higher price than the standard 338 RUM.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Nice post, McG, I can see your point.

While Lapua brass would be nice to use, we need some inexpensive rifles with .590" boltface to make the 338 Lapua popular.

Without those, I would probably stay with the 338WinMag, a lot of bang for buck (a Yankee idiom). And a rechamber with a 338/375Ruger version comes in second for me--unless an inexpensive 338RUM rifle were to hit the market. I like to see rifles based around $1000 or less.

I saw a 338 RUM on GunBroker for 1k, it still had tags on it/was described as unfired. I'd chop the barrel to 24" on it. Really it's not to hard doing an edge or RUM in a 70 or 700. But the 338 wm is fantastic.

The MSRP is above your limit by a few cases of beer, but it's all there.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-w...-stock-muzzle-brake/

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

just a thought; would you consider a 338 Edge instead?

Yes, I have considered the 338 Edge. But the Lapua comes with headstamped brass over the counter, and you can get Lapua-brand brass, too.

The 338 Lapua is such an excellent round, why bother wildcatting a longer, thinner cartridge? I suppose that I am expecting that the 338 Lapua is going to be a keeper into the future. I've noticed that even Weatherby offers their Mark V's in 338 Lapua, though the MSRP prices start around $2500. Weatherby adds $300 to the Accumark sticker for a round with a .590" boltface.

You can buy brass with 338 EDGE head stamp all day long through Berthram or Defensive Edge and it is hell a lot better than Nosler, Remington and Federal brass.

Forget all the other musing over cartridges, there can be only one ultimate .338, the .338 Lapua Magnum.

Brass is great from Lapua, Norma, Hornady, and last but not least, Captech International.
I would trust all those to 68K psi but load them nearly forever at 60Kpsi.
I have not tried Nosler .338 Lapua Magnum brass.
Cheaper and less reliable: PRVI.

I started off with an Armalite AR-30 .338 lapua Magnum.
I got rid of that because it would fire when the safety was pushed forward with a cocked and loaded chamber, though my finger was nowhere near the trigger.
That split my thumb open once, but never again, hopefully Armalite corrected that weakness.

My next .338 LM was a Sako M995 (IIRC), but I hated the Optilock bases and rings and the lack of a recoil lug on the rifle
... only a slot in the action bottom that mated with a recoil stop in the stock ...
so I got rid of that too.

I still own and approve of a Savage .338 Lapua Magnum Model 111 and the Dakota Model 76, T-76 Longbow.

But the cockles of this riflecrank's heart are best warmed by a light and sporty 23-inch-barreled CZ 550 Magnum put together from "parts"
done to humor my whims, by Rusty McGee Gunsmith:









The barrel is a take-off barrel from a slick-barreled Ruger M77 Mk II stainless/synthetic .338 WinMag that shot sub-MOA in that chambering.
24" barrel cut off and re-threaded at chamber end, then re-crowned, ended up 23" long.
The factory roll-stamping on the Ruger barrel is still there, but is now on the bottom side of the barrel, does not show when in the stock, since it was rotated 90 degrees when re-installed on the CZ. Sneaky, eh?

The action from that Ruger went to build a .416 Taylor.

The CZ 550 Magnum action and the Euro Hogback walnut stock (I love bacon!) came from a used .300 WinMag bought for a song.

The sights and banded sling base came from Dakota.
The rear sight base is reversed from how Dakota usually instals them.

The reamer was from Dave Kiff, PT&G.

The scope was from an old BRNO ZKK 602, Zeiss Jenna rail-mounted 4X with German post reticle. Still works.
But many other sporting or tactical scope mounts on this are easy with CZ hardware.







The 23" barrel:

Norma factory loaded 225-grain pointy FMJ that was advertized at 2950 fps in who-knows-how-long-a-barrel
still chronographs at 2798.6 fps at 5 yards from the muzzle, so that is over 2800 fps, barely, at the muzzle.

Some Alabama Ammo factory loads with 200-grain Nosler Ballistic tip chronographed at 3121.3 fps at 5 yards from muzzle.

The latest Hornady manual shows data for a 24.5" long 1:9" twist barrel using the Hornady 250-grain bullets.
VIHT N-165 charge:
75.9 gr >>> 2300 fps
79.5 gr >>> 2400 fps
83.0 gr >>> 2500 fps
86.6 gr >>> 2600 fps
90.2 gr >>> 2700 fps
93.7 gr >>> 2800 fps

My rifle is faster than that with a 1.5" shorter barrel of 1:10" twist:
83.2 gr starting load of N-165 >>> 2617 fps at 5-yard chronograph.
I will load again for it with that powder and expect to max out at over 2900 fps with the 250-grain Hornady bullet.
H4831 might do the same.

But the rifle is a light and handy one that will do well for varmints using the lighter bullets at mach 3 maybe?

So the 340 Weatherby will do the same with a 26-inch barrel?
So what.
I built this baby for the cheap and cool.

Now if I put it into a CZ Kevlar stock made by B&C (best stock out there, bar none) it might cost more than the Savage Model 111, but will still be more cool.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
What are your goals with it?

Long range shooting?
Off hand hunting?


A CZ 550 in 416 Rigby could be a reasonable starting point.

The idea of a 338 Lapua would be a hunting rifle for shoulder carry.
The cartridge would be able to cross a canyon should the need arise.

The problem with many donor rifles is the initial expense, especially if only to get an action. Are Weatherby Mark V actions ever up for auction on Gunbroker? I've never tracked them.

The Lapua, of course, wants the 'super-magnum' boltface (.590"). A new CZ will run about $1200, then needing rebarreling, chambering, and maybe some trigger work. Of course, I already have a CZ 416 Rigby in the US for load development and shooting fun, but I think I'll just keep it a 416. Nice caliber, too. The Lapua would be a new rifle.

Just noticed a CZ 550 .416 Rigby on Gunbroker for a buy now $1150 price which would cost you about $1350 with and transfer fees. That'd leave you about $650 for re-barrel, chamber, and trigger work.

Love it RIP! I was looking at that rear island and was thinking... WTF! Looks good though. Being a 338 bore fan I never warmed up to the 338 LM. If I went., that route I would prob do a full length rigby case otherwise I'd stick to a RUM or 340 wby. I am doing a new wby now on a M70. All stainless 24" trying to keep it scoped and loaded at ~8lbs