Do you like the 06 because its so common? Maybe you like the 338-06 because it's middle of the road. Or the Whelen because the Col. is your cousin twice removed?????

Probably able to exclude the big bears for now, but just about everything else in NA could be in the sights. For shooting at 300 yds and under for now as well, untill a lot more practice anyways.

Lets hear what you think.

Redrider.

I don't remember who said it, but I read it in a gun magazine a while back. Says it all.
Whereas the 30-06 is probably not the ideal caliber for any north American big game, it will do the job on anything except the BIG bears. If you keep ranges to a reasonable level, you won't ever regret having an '06.
Not an exact quote, but I think you get the point.

The only .30-06 I own is a nice M1 Match Garand. It's just always struck me as .....boring. Same w/ the .270. Nothing wrong w/ either, just not me. I have been hunting w/ a .338-06 for 9 or so years & love it. With 210gr bullets, it's flat enough to take deer size game out to 350yds or so & it just hammers them. I use the same bullet for everything including elk, except in thick timber, then I go to the 250gr Speer GS bullet for a bit better penetration. If I hunted bear that would also be my bullet of choice. There are no flys on the .35Whelen either or the 9.3x62 for that matter. I just grew up reading Keith & his affection for the .33 bore. He may have just been right. The .338 in an 06 or Win mag is just about the perfect one gun for anything on this continent (obviously you must handload).

[ 10-28-2003, 04:19: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

Having recently built a 338-06, my vote goes to it. I love mine!

Of course, for all practical purposes, it is a reloaders caliber, at least for now.

If you want ease of everything (buying factory ammo, reloading choices, etc), go with the 30-06. Yeah, it may be "boring", but you can't deny that it will do just about anything you'd ever ask of it. (Having said that, I've never hunted with a 30-06! )

As for the 35 Whelen, I don't know why, but it has never lit my fire. Nothing wrong with it if you get right down to it, but it just doesn't do it for me, for whatever reason...

The quote I like, (and it is attributed to everyone that knows how to spell rifle, including Jesus and A. Lincoln) "you never make a mistake choosing a 06" Boring, mundane, ordinary, blue collar, yes, all of that but it is still THE rifle that others are compared to.

I avoided the .30-06 for much of my life because it's "boring" and everybody's got one. But there are good reasons for that. As was said above, it's a good choice for just about anything you might want to hunt outside of Africa, and it has a very distinguished history in the target field as well. It's hard to go wrong in handloading it, and has a huge variety of components made for it. Pretty much every rifle with a long enough action is made for it, and there's a wide variety of factory ammo. The .338-06 and .35 Whelen are good old classic wildcats for big game hunting, but they'll never have the versatility of the .30-06. The problem with the '06 is that it was the original that the others in the family were based on. Familiarity breeds contempt. If somebody today instead took the old well established .25-06 or .35 Whelen and necked it up or down to .308, it would be widely hailed as a stroke of genius and the best all-around cartridge to ever come down the pike.

30/06 is boring? What's "boring" about success? The only thing wrong with the /06 is that we may not be the only kids on the block to own one. It's like saying Sophia Loren is "too Italian" or something.

What do I think of the three rifles discussed? I don't think a guy could go wrong with ANY of the three. They are all mighty good cartridges and plenty effective for most anything.

The 338 & Whelen loose some versatility IMHO because of available bullets. Looks to me like the "tilt" just really depends on what you hunt. If your menu sprinkles in a fair amount of varmits and lighter game where extra velocity and flatter trajectory would help...go with the /06. If your hunting amounts to a steady diet of mule deer on up, you might be better served to go with one of the other.

Clearly this is a win, win, win choice. No wrong answers here.

I guess I'll be the first to say I've got one of each!
A Win 95 lever gun in .30-'06 with 24" barrel and iron sights. It's the fancy 100th anniversary model, but I have hunted with it.

A Rem 700 with Hart stainless 24" barrel set in H-S Precision stock in .338-'06 Ackley Improved. It's going to Namibia next year for plains game.

A Rem 7600 with 20" magnaported barrel in .35 Whelen. Just got it two months ago. I'm working up a cast bullet load for the upcoming deer season.

I love the basic '06 case so much I even have a .25-'06

You know what they say? Variety is the spice of life. Who could ask for anything more?

There is a reason everything is still compared to the '06, it works for just about everything. And there is nothing wrong with being able to find ammo anywhere in the world to fit your rifle.

DO NOT TELL MY WIFE I SAID THAT!!!

I had a Whelan for a while but didn't handload back then, the choice of ammo was miserable so I traded it off. I also have a 270, 7x57, 300 Savage, 308, 300 Winnie, 7.65x53, 8x57 and 338 Winnie in big game calibers so I'm not lacking in choices. While I normally take the Ruger as my backup on every hunt I'm equally comfortable with the BAR in '06.

For most of the human race, if a cartridge can't be built on an /06 case, they don't really need it.

I've stuck with this philosophy for the majority of my rifles over the years and have been well served by it.

I'd have to stop and think a bit to recall just how many different cartridges I've made up using /06 brass. It's the gold standard of cartridges IMHO.

Limited bullet selection in the .35 Whelan?

Can't you use .357 pistol bullets in that barrel size?

That's my idea of an ideal caliber. Something that has both pistol, and rifle bullets, the same diameter.

.510 Wells and 500 Linebaugh, or 500 JRH comes to mind...

gs

[ 10-28-2003, 06:51: Message edited by: Cold Bore ]

I like them all, too, from .264" through .375".
The three you mention will all throw bullets of about .25 SD around 2750-2800 fps, which covers a good deal of all possible hunting in NA, and an even greater deal of actual hunting. It works great with an 8lb rifle with 24" bbl, which suits.
To my mind, the 280 R is the best use of this case, and this case is right around the best use of a 7mm bore.
The '06 is not and never will be the sort of comfortable extra that is in vogue, but the 100-year vote count says it is plenty enough.
If you're looking for opinions because you want to build one, I'd have the rifle designed around a bit of a niche, and that would determine which bore. A 280 for all-around deer/goat/elk, an '06 for the "one-man gun" thing (poor sucker!), a 338, 358 or 375 for elk.
Another thing to keep in mind, the bigger bores are great platforms for launching heavy cast bullets, say a 300g .375" @ 2150 fps....

I'm a 338-06 fan. I can launch a 180 gr NBT at 3000fps for a flat deer load or a 250/270 gr for any of the big stuff.

I like th 30/06 round and it has served me well when I have used it.

The oothers you mention have not ever really interested me for some unknown reason, especially the 35 whelen it does nothing for me.

Now the 9.3x62 there is a round that gets me interested like K.Minouges ass

The 9.3x62 is on a par with the other two you mentioned but it has a little charm attached with it IMHO

The use of pistol bullets is one of the reasons I love my .35 Whelen 7600, I can load 158 gr rn plated bullets for cheap snap shooting practice. I have a couple thousand from when I was shooting revolver heavily and they feed find in the pump.
Jason

Socrates
posted 10-28-2003 06:45
Limited bullet selection in the .35 Whelan?
Can't you use .357 pistol bullets in that barrel size?
That's my idea of an ideal caliber. Something that has both pistol, and rifle bullets, the same diameter.
.510 Wells and 500 Linebaugh, or 500 JRH comes to mind...

Love my new 35 Whelen Rem 7600! Below group is 225 BT's at 2550 fps. 100 yard group!

I am guy number 2 with all three.

The versatility thing, is not a point of discussion for a man who owns more than one rifle, as is bullet weight selection, so lets put those one the back burner.

30-06. I have killed everything from ground squirrels to elk with it, and it has never let me down. 5 Elk all shot within 200 yds with 180 nosler partitions, and all were pass thrus. If a guy had to choose one of these three, as his ONLY rifle I would go with the 30-06. Although for just one gun I would choose a 270 Winchester.

338-06 and 35 Whelen both are good cartridges, but the 338-06 performance leaves it far behind the 35 Whelen with equal barrel lenghts. With 250 grain bullets I am able to get about 2450-2500 fps out of the 338, while the 35 Whelen shoots the 250 grainer at 2600-2650. Another factor between the 2 rifles I own, the 35 shoots better groups by about a 1/2" or so, and seems to foul less easily.

Good Luck

Jerry

I like the 30-06 as an all round gun but the 350 Remmington Magnum as a back up. The 06 will handle most north american game but, the 350 will cover them all. The 350 is not a ground hog gun because it's bullet weights start at 180.

The .350 Remington Magnum basically gives .35 Whelen ballistics in a short action, short barrelled carbine.

Guys:

The only problem with the 350 Remington Magnum is, most are in actions to short to allow the bullets to be seated out far enough to utilize the powder capacity. Therefore, 35 Whelen velocities cannot be reached.

Jerry

If I could have just one, it would be the .30-06, because it is the most versatile. My favorite of the 3 happens to be the .35 Whelen. In my opinion, the 06 case doesn't have the horsepower to make the .338-06/.35 Whelen truly versatile with the 250 grain bullets, so I'd just as soon have the frontal area of the .35 (Part of my definition of versatile means flat shooting, might not be that important to everybody ) The .338-06 may have an edge in sectional density, but I've never heard of anybody having penetration problems w/ the 250 gr / .35 Whelen combo.

-Lou

Jerry E. in my opinion you are comparing apples to oranges with 250 gr both in 338 and 35. The SD of the 225 in 338 is close to the 250 in 35.I'm sure if you could find a 275 gr in 35 their Vel would be the same. Also 338 comes in 270 gr from Swift.Then again this is just my opinion which only amounts to anything in my mind.

Rob1SG

Apples to Oranges, I am not sure what you mean by that. They both have 250 grain bullet offerings. The SD may be higher in the 338, but that dosen't amount to a hill of beans, as neither one of these cartridges are a long range proposition. Should we compare 225 grain bullets? I shoot those as well. IMO the Whelen still comes out on top as it shoots um faster, if trajectory is your argument.

Jerry

I'm with Rob on this one.
Sort of.
There really is no easy way to compare two bore sizes across the board.
The 250g .338" gives a significantly higher SD, which is about penetration, NOT trajectory, (as you said, these aren't long-range numbers) so you would need to push it faster in the .358" to make up for it. How much faster? Can't say.
On the other side, the .358" makes a bigger hole, so if it penetrates "enough," (e.g., all the way thru) it will fair better than the .338" penetrating "enough."
Comparing the 225g .338" with the 250g .358" gives me reason to choose the Whelen, but it's all just a matter of where you want to side.
This goes for all cartridges, doesn't it?
One of the big reasons for choosing this case in the first place is siding with "less recoil" over "faster bullet."
TINSTAAFL, baby.

Lets see since I am not the most experienced with all these I try and rely on some of the people who are. In Handloader#184 Dec 1996 Finn Aagaard did some testing his 338-06 Nosler Part 250 gr at 2535 penetrated 16.3" expanded .60". The 35 Whelan 250 gr Nosler Part.at 2603 penetrated 13.6 expanded .64". The 30-06 220 at 2560 penetrated 16.5" and expanded to .52". These are his avg on the test he ran. You can draw your own conclusions from this. I'll take the 338-06

I hate the 30-06!!! When I was 14 I inherited my dads pre-64 Model 70. For better than 30 years now I have never been able to come up with a reason to buy another rifle. For better than 30 years it has served me without fail. My son is 12 now and he likes shooting it. The old girl is headed to Idaho with me in a week and then it may be time to pass it down to him. Nothing flashy about the 30-06 but it just works.

Jeff

Guys:

I appreciate all your replies. It seems, and this is just my opinion, we have some folks who are really dedicated to one or the other of these cartridges. I used to be that way as well, until I started to acquire many different calibers. My question then is, how many of you own and shoot all three? How many of you have taken the time to work up loads, shoot them on paper, cronograph all those loads, and then shoot game with them?
Since I have done all that, I won't make anymore comments except to say: All the writings in the world, will not make up for your own personal experience. Just because someone publishes load data, or writes about a particular cartridge, bullet combination, dosen't mean it is fact for all rifles. I don't accept any of that, until I have done it myself.

Jerry

Jerry E. A lot of truth in what you say BUT there are some writers/shooters that are worthy of your consideration. Otherwise, you spend too much time re-inventing the wheel. Finn Aagard comes quickly to mind. If he said a certain bullet would penetrate 16" of wet paper or a certain calibre was superior to another, you could damn well write it in ink and take it to the bank. As I recall, he felt very highly toward the 338-06 and less so toward the .35Whelan. Again working with a memory that is less than pristine, it seems his problem with the .35 Whelan was the small shoulders. He felt the round would have been much better if Remington had brought it out with AI contours to the shoulders. Thus, if I were going to buy one or the other, I would be predisposed toward the .338-06. Neither would impel me to trade my 30-06 however. A hundred years of history and my own experiences tell me that a 220gr ball out of a 30-06 is still big medicine.

Of these three, I'll take the .30-06 any day of the week for all-around use.

If I want more bullet weight and more power than the '06 provides, I'll select either the .338 Win. Mag. or .375 H&H.

To me, the .338-06 and .35 Whelen are neither fish nor foul, and I wouldn't hunt with either one of them.

I'll put it this way: Anything you'd hunt with a .338-06 or .35 Whelen, I'd gladly hunt with the .30-06, and said animals will go down in the same manner across the board. Make book on it...

AD

The 06' gets my vote....even though I really like my 35 Wheelen. Before I went bear hunting last month, I read up on recommended calibers for black bear in the eastern woods, where you hunt over bait and the ranges are short. ( keeping in mind that a 225gr 35 Wheelen only drops 3 inches less than a 180gr 06 at 300 yards) In Boddington's book, he's pretty convinced that a 35 cal bullet definetly puts bears down better than a 30 cal. I shot a nice bear ( about 320 lbs) with the 35 Wheelen and he dropped deader than honesty in the democratic party. But, with the possible exception of moose in Maine, I'd feel out of place with the Wheelen or any of the other two "specialized" cartridges. I used a Wheelen cause I'm a rifle nut plain and simple. You just can't beat the 06 if that's your primary rifle for hunting. jorbe

I have to agree with Allen here. After owning all three at one time or another, plus an 8mm-06, I have to think the only reason to own other than the 30-06 is simply because you want to. This by the way is a good enough reason but on the other hand not very scientific.

Some have quoted Finn Aagaard above and one of his favorite rounds was the 30-06. In one article he remarks what a marvelously efficient tool the 30-06 is with a 200 grain Nosler Partition. Finn had it right on as far as I am concerned for from my experience it is foolish to step over the 200 grain Nosler in the 30-06 for a 210 338-06 or even a 225 Nosler in a 35 Whelen. A 180 or 200 grain Nosler in a 30-06 is an awesome tool. I too, will step up to the 338 Win Mag or 375 if I want more horsepower.

I actually think like some others have stated if you want more than a 30-06 nowdays the 9.3X62 makes the most sense. A 338-06 or 35 Whelen is basically a custom rifle of some sort nowdays because of few factory offerings so a 9.3X62 would involve about the same cost. While I have never owned a 9.3X62 there is enough on record here at AR to show it is a pretty efficient round. The biggest thing against it is, it will probably be just like the 30-06, it will become boring because it works so well.

I have owned, hunted with, and shot targets with all three calibers and they are all fine calibers but the bottom line is the 30-06 will simply do anything the 338-06 or 35 Whelen will do with a simulair hit on game.

A 200 or 220 gr. 06 at 2600 and 2500 respectively will do all a 250 gr. will at the same velocity and it has the advantage of SD and probably penitration but not a lot...The 06 will shoot flater with a 150 gr. bullet, it will shoot as flat with a 180 or 220s as any of the above..All in all to beat the 06 in killing power and range one must take a big jump and that would be the 338 Win and up...The 06 is very competitive with the 300s...

You non believers can shout all you want on this but the truth is your nose is burried in a gun book or your reading to many hunting magazines because in the field their is NO difference what so ever....

My 9.3x62 is a fine wonderfull caliber but its not much over the 06 in the real world...My 375 might be and my 416 definately is...but only if we are talking killing power on big ugly animals.

You guys are getting your panties in a wad over nothing. So what if one person like a different rifle its not a personal attack on you.Redrider wanted opinions so we gave them. It doesn't mean we trying to say its the only caliber worth a damn its just an opinion.Anyone of them will do in all the animals in N.A. at under 300 yds. With the proper bullet and shot placement.

Lotsa good commentary here.....I do have an '06 and a 9.3 x 62, and in one of the few times I'll politely agree to disagree with Mr. Atkinson--I think the 9.3 x 62 with a 286 grain Partition or like bullets can potentially surpass the 30-06 in stopping power on highly motivated toothed and clawed critters at closer ranges. Mostly, this is a matter of shot placement--but I want every potential edge (within the bounds of reasonableness) that I can get in such a situation. Most bolt rifle/belted magnum systems are 3 down/1 up....the CZ-550 has two more rounds on board in 9.3 x 62.

Beyond that--the 30-06 makes most of the other calibers I reload for superfluous. A 223 is cheaper to run for zapping rats, but of the three calibers given in this thread all will do fine work on North American game.

The only blemish I see in the three is with the 35 Whelen--most rifles in this caliber use a 1-16" twist, and this limits bullet weights to about 250 grains--a thing which really limits the caliber's capabilities. This is the telling--and only--difference between the 35 Whelen and the 9.3 x 62.

If you don't want to shoot varmints then the 338-06 makes the most sense. The 160 to 300 gr bullet selection is the key, especially since the middle weight 180 Nosler BT has the same sectional density and BC as a 150 gr 30-06 and does the same velocity - 3000 fps. This is a great long range round in the 338 and just a good one in the '06.

HOWEVER, if you just want to walk into your local gun shop and lay down less than $400, the '06 wins hands down, especially in a Rem 7600. Not enough is made of the effectiveness and raw killing power of 220 gr bullets in the '06, but these have a sectional density of .331and can be driven 2600 fps with R22 in a 24 inch bbl at safe pressures.

Rob1SG:

You sure have that right, why get your panties wet. I have to take some of the blame, for I made the UNFORGIVABLE statement that my, 35 Whelen, shot better than my 338-06. I never said anybody else's, just mine. Also for you 30-06 live or die-ers, I said of the 3 if I could choose only one it would be the 30-06. But since I can have a bunch of differnt calibers, well- I choose them all.

Allen Day:

I suppose you wouldn't hunt with a 270 Win or a 280 Remington either, your choice.

Jerry

It wouldn't make one iota of difference to me if I was facing a charging Lion or bear at close range if I had a 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets at 2400 fps or a 9.3x62 with 286 gr. bullets at 2400 FPS, as I believe the result would be the same, with either I would shoot for the brain and wonder where my double rifle was...

I have shot a lot of game with both,and the 9.3x62 does have the edge, but it is not as much as many think it is, nor is the 375 for that matter...The shot must still be in the exact right spot or it will not stop a Lion, only tick him off worse, end of story...but on the other hand either a 06 220 gr. or a 286 9.3 will do the job with a heart or brain shot and do it in about the same time enfrance...This is where the 40 calibers and larger bring their milk, they normally stop them cold with the well placed shots in the heart...