The Accurate Reloading Forums
Stainless, CRF, .35cal build questions
13 April 2013, 19:10
Brandon.GleasonStainless, CRF, .35cal build questions
I'd like to get a stainless, CRF rifle into my safe. I'm very much a 375 fan, but have had my interest piqued by the 358STA. My question is where do I get started? Is it as simple as finding an appropriate doner rifle, ordering a barrel, and then sending out for feeding work? If so, what would be the appropriate action/caliber doner? Winchester vs Ruger? Might I be better off just contacting a rifle builder and sourcing out the entire job? I'm assuming it might be more cost effective to gather materials myself and have the finish work completed by a smith, as I'm on a bit of a budget (let's say $2000-2500 before optics).
My quick fix to the desire for a stainless, CRF rifle is to find a Ruger Alaskan 375R, but I think I'd rather have something a bit more unique.
As to the 358STA, I've read a bit here about poor performance of 358cal bullets at the velocities offered by this cartridge. These threads were from '05-06. Do these worries still hold true? I see partitions, TSX, and TTSX available for the 358 cal. The rifle would mostly see whitetail hunting for the foreseeable future, but I'd eventually like to put some larger critters in front of her.
13 April 2013, 20:37
thecanadianor
http://www.montanarifleco.com/barreled%20actions.htmlI can tell you that the 358 STA will take anything in NA. Shoot premium north fork or woodleigh and they will penetrate A$$ to mouth.
"though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."
---Thomas Jefferson
13 April 2013, 20:40
Nordic2Save your money buy a ruger .308w or similar for whitetail. Use your .375 if you need something bigger.
13 April 2013, 20:49
Brandon.Gleasonquote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti...x?Item=336322452#PIChttp://www.gunauction.com/buy/...uild-358-sta-cliaberor
http://www.montanarifleco.com/barreled%20actions.htmlI can tell you that the 358 STA will take anything in NA. Shoot premium north fork or woodleigh and they will penetrate A$$ to mouth.
I saw the gunbroker auction earlier today. Really liking the look of the Montana production rifles and the price seems really right. Anyone have any experience with their rifles?
13 April 2013, 20:51
Brandon.Gleasonquote:
Originally posted by Nordic2:
Save your money buy a ruger .308w or similar for whitetail. Use your .375 if you need something bigger.
While undeniably fiscally responsible and utilitarian, it's just a bit boring for me. Odd calibers always make for great conversation pieces.
13 April 2013, 23:11
phurley5Ffemt5287 ----- Don't let anyone talk you out of building an STA. I shoot two, one the Winchester you see on the auction, the other another Custom build on a Model 70 post 64 action. Both rifle are tack drivers and hunt with anything you could put in your hands. The bullet selection is no problem. My son and I have shot every bullet manufactured in this country and have settled on North Forks of 225, 250 and 270 grains as our go to bullets, and have taken many Elk and Deer with them. We have shot Swift A-Frame of 280 grains and Nosler Partition or Barnes X, Kodiak of 225 and 250 grains, all were accurate and performed well on penetration test boxs, the North Forks doing all best. As to the .375 H@H my loads are superior at all bullets weights. Your choice of 185 grains up to 310 grain give you a wide range of choices you don't get with the .375. We have hunted Alaska, Alberta and Africa and have found it awesome indeed. A flat shooting large bullet that will offer excellent penetration. Good luck and good shooting.
phurley
13 April 2013, 23:30
michael458Hey guys, I have two of those Winchester M70 stainless/wood rifles from the Custom Shop, some years ago, I believe those were done in 1999, but not 100% sure. I used one as my medium caliber for many years, and it was SUPERB in every way. Both rifles are well under MOA at a 100 with nearly any load you wanted to use. Back in the day, I had 280 Swifts as the heavy weight, shot eland, wildebeasts, zebras and lots of other things, with a 250 Hornady as a light bullet it smashed lesser critters. There are even better bullets out there now, and someone mentioned North Fork, for sure worth a look.
Anything under $3000 for those rifles is a deal today, I see the one on gunbroker at $2700 or so, the other I think was $2300? At $2300 that is a steal on that gun...... You won't build one, of that quality, for that price.......
Thats my two cents....
Michael
http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.htmlThe New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"
I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
14 April 2013, 00:09
Brandon.GleasonThank you both for the insight and experiences. What's weight run on the Winchester rifles? They're H&H length actions, correct? Could one expect a more svelt rifle with an '06 length action/cartridge? I've been reading a bit about the 358 Norma Mag and the 35-375 Ruger.
14 April 2013, 07:36
MileHighShooterWith a Win 70, 30-06 length IS 375 length. Change the bolt stop, extractor and magazine, same same.
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
14 April 2013, 08:07
ramrod340I had a 358STA built it along with the STW. For the gain I got I sold it and replaced it with the 358 Norma. I had a 24" and pressure limited me to less than 100fps gain. So didn't need the recoil blast etc. The Norma would kill just as dead.
As usual just my $.02
Paul K
14 April 2013, 08:52
wolfhunter 2When you get down to what realy works the minimal amount of extra velocity gain from a 35 stw over a 35 whelen ackley imp. is not much with a 35 whelen model 70 you can get 5 rounds in magazine and one in pipe thats a lot of firepower 225gr going close to 2900 fps and I can tell you that will kick a alaskan moose ass right over. 3 hunts same results. Kevin
14 April 2013, 09:02
Brandon.Gleasonquote:
Originally posted by wolfhunter 2:
When you get down to what realy works the minimal amount of extra velocity gain from a 35 stw over a 35 whelen ackley imp. is not much with a 35 whelen model 70 you can get 5 rounds in magazine and one in pipe thats a lot of firepower 225gr going close to 2900 fps and I can tell you that will kick a alaskan moose ass right over. 3 hunts same results. Kevin
Would a Whelen chamber clean up to an STA with a reamer if one desired? Or would it require a whole new barrel.
14 April 2013, 09:34
ramrod340quote:
Would a Whelen chamber clean up to an STA with a reamer
yes the 358STA cleans up a whelen chamber
For the record a 358 Norma would as well. Same box length as the whelen so only bolt face changes.
As usual just my $.02
Paul K
14 April 2013, 17:37
Woodrow SYou can buy a model 70 in 7STW and just rebarrel it to the 358STA. That is probably the simplest and least expensive way to get there.
I really wish Cooper would add this chambering. I'd just hafta have one.
17 April 2013, 22:41
DuaneinNDI have a removable pilot JGS reamer that has chambered 1 barrel I would sell for $100 delivered.
06 June 2013, 11:25
Brandon.GleasonSo the more I've thought about this, the less I'm looking to burn 80+gr of powder with a single trigger pull. Still looking towards a .35cal rifle to fill the void in my safe, but now looking hard at the .35 Whelen, .358 Win, and .358 WSM (.35 Sambar). My options seem to be finding a used Ruger Hawkeye in .35 Whelen or .358 Win, or getting a Winchester 70 or Kimber 8400 in .325WSM or .30-06 and reboring to .35cal. Thoughts on these?
Find a cheap Ruger stainless in 338WinMag, replace the barrel with a like contour 1:12" twist stainless 35cal and chamber to 358Norma. Easy conversion, easy to source components, brass can be legitimate or 300WinMag reformed, speeds from a trickle to very useable with bullet weights upto the 310gr pills ... what's not to like? If you run it like a hot loaded 35Whelen, your brass will last virtually forever.
Cheers...
Con
06 June 2013, 15:35
HondoLaneWhat about taking a Winchester Model 70 WSM-chambered rifle and rebarreling for 350 Remington Magnum? You could get a stainless donor. I would think that the action would require no extra work and the 350 Remington Mag. can do a lot in a very trim package. In my opinion, it would not be overkill on whitetails, but would still have enough of power for larger game. The 350 Remington Magnum, while still a factory round, still has a uniqueness that certainly keeps me interested in it. I actually thought about building one in stainless to match the Winchester Extreme Weather SS in 264 Win. Mag. I have on order. I think they would make a nice combo.
06 June 2013, 16:04
p dog shooterquote:
Originally posted by Nordic2:
Save your money buy a ruger .308w or similar for whitetail. Use your .375 if you need something bigger.
Need went away with your first 06 or 308 WANT is still there.
Shooting small stuff with my 416 is just fun.
07 June 2013, 08:32
boom stickquote:
Originally posted by ramrod340:
quote:
Would a Whelen chamber clean up to an STA with a reamer
yes the 358STA cleans up a whelen chamber
For the record a 358 Norma would as well. Same box length as the whelen so only bolt face changes.
You want a 1 in 12 twist at least if not a 1 in 10. Remington ruined the 35 Whelen with its slow twist rifles.
07 June 2013, 08:33
boom stick350 G&H?
35 Newton?
I bought a NIB Ruger Hawkeye LH in 300 WM and sent it off to McGowan. Got it back as a 358 Norma with Ruger sights and barrel band swivel stud (Ruger parts) added to their barrel. Unless you lood very closely it looks like a Ruger African but is VERY light and trim with the factory stock opened slightly for the new barrel. Now I just need to convince Uncle Sam that I need enough time off to complete my Honey-do lists and get some time to go shooting and hunting.
Oh yeah, total cost was less than $1200.
Mat
I just bought a 35 Whelen but one of my plans was to find a Sako model 75 in stainles synthetic based on an 06 case and have JES rebore it to 35 Whelen. They specialize in 35 caliber reboring. I took a 30/06 Sako and had it rebarreled to 9.3x62 and it worked like a charm. I like the high capacity removable magazine (5+1) that this combo offered.
09 June 2013, 08:22
DB BillJust a stray thought to consider - if you ever want to take it out of the USA to hunt you will have a problem with brass where the head-tamp doesn't match the caliber on the barrel.
Wildcats can be fun but like a mistress with a bad temper
- they can have a downside too.
DB Bill aka Bill George
09 June 2013, 09:22
DoublessAwfully hard to beat the 358 Norma. And brass might be hard to come by, but it is available, at least at times.
10 June 2013, 05:06
Woodrow SI use a lot of wildcats and never had a single encounter whereas the proper head-stamp mattered...nobody ever check in South Africa or Canada and I know lots of others that did the same in many different countries without incident, so I am pretty sure it's a non-issue.
11 June 2013, 10:02
cobradI had one, built on a Remmy 700 long action that started life as an '06. I had a custom built on the action and we installed a Wyatt magazine box. I was just shooting elk with it, so I used the 250 gr. Hornday Interlocks with fine success. At the time I was contemplating it, Phurley was very helpful with his experiences and sent some load data as well. It's an ass kicking round on game. I had a brake on mine, so it wasn't too hard on me. I got bored and sold it. Wish I still had that one now.
If you want to find out how you like the 358 STA before you build one, I have a blued model 70 push feed 358STA with a super grade stock for sale. I've got dies and a bunch of brass plus ammo for it. I have a stainless model 70 CRF in 338 win mag for your donor rifle too. I might make you a package deal. PM me if interested.
Sam
11 June 2013, 20:00
phurley5quote:
Originally posted by phurley5:
Ffemt5287 ----- Don't let anyone talk you out of building an STA. I shoot two, one the Winchester you see on the auction, the other another Custom build on a Model 70 post 64 action. Both rifle are tack drivers and hunt with anything you could put in your hands. The bullet selection is no problem. My son and I have shot every bullet manufactured in this country and have settled on North Forks of 225, 240 and 270 grains as our go to bullets, and have taken many Elk and Deer with them. We have shot Swift A-Frame of 280 grains and Nosler Partition or Barnes X, Kodiak of 225 and 250 grains, all were accurate and performed well on penetration test boxs, the North Forks doing all best. As to the .375 H@H my loads are superior at all bullets weights. Your choice of 185 grains up to 310 grain give you a wide range of choices you don't get with the .375. We have hunted Alaska, Alberta and Africa and have found it awesome indeed. A flat shooting large bullet that will offer excellent penetration. Good luck and good shooting.
phurley
quote:
Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I use a lot of wildcats and never had a single encounter whereas the proper head-stamp mattered...nobody ever check in South Africa or Canada and I know lots of others that did the same in many different countries without incident, so I am pretty sure it's a non-issue.
If push comes to shove, you can get brass with the correct head stamp for 358 STA. I think Quality Cartridge makes it.
To the OP: if I were building a rifle for mostly whitetails and maybe something bigger in the future, I'd probably go for a Whelen. Short of dangerous game, there's not much on earth that you can't reliably kill with a .35 Whelen, as long as you keep your shots inside of 250-300 yards. I built my Whelen on a 98 Mauser for just that purpose; I hunt deer most of the time, and black bears every few years, but I have plans to hunt elk and moose at some point in the future. For me, the Whelen seemed like a perfect fit. The .358 STA is basically a duplicate of a .375 H&H in terms of the game it's suitable for, etc.
11 June 2013, 21:53
Brandon.Gleasonquote:
Originally posted by kjjm4:
To the OP: if I were building a rifle for mostly whitetails and maybe something bigger in the future, I'd probably go for a Whelen. Short of dangerous game, there's not much on earth that you can't reliably kill with a .35 Whelen, as long as you keep your shots inside of 250-300 yards. I built my Whelen on a 98 Mauser for just that purpose; I hunt deer most of the time, and black bears every few years, but I have plans to hunt elk and moose at some point in the future. For me, the Whelen seemed like a perfect fit. The .358 STA is basically a duplicate of a .375 H&H in terms of the game it's suitable for, etc.
I've stepped back my wants away from the level of the STA. I'm going to make the local rounds this weekend to see what I might see in a stainless, CRF (probably Ruger) in either 358 win, 350 rem mag, or 35 Whelen.
12 June 2013, 03:47
packrattusnongratusI like the 358 Win. But have owned a Whelen. I still look at the left over Whelen loads and dream. 280 gr cast flatpoint just look like stopping loads.
While not stainless, it is CRF.........
Here's my version of a 35 Whelen....
1949 Model 70 action,23" Shilen with 14" twist, McMillan Hunter's Edge.....weighs 7lbs 11 ounces with 3.5-10 Leupold in Dual Dovetails
14 June 2013, 14:34
ApprenticeThe Whelen is definitely my pick. You won't feel under-gunned. Just be mindful of twist rates if you plan on using heavies(300+). I would go with nothing slower than 1-14". I have a 35 Whelen improved on an FN Mauser that P.O. Ackley put together. 24" barrel, .610" @ the muzzle. A real joy to carry and shoot. 225gr Sierra GK's backed by some IMR 8208 XBR is some serious medicine for white tails. I would not go with the improved version though, not enough velocity gain to amount to anything and fire forming gets old.
I would think you could take a Remington 700 in 35 Whelen and have it rechambered and bolt face adjusted and be into a 358 STA pretty reasonably. I see Remingtons around and in fact my local dealer has a CDL in 35 Whelen for about $650 right now. Island Firearms Inc 412 264 4867.
The problem with doing an STA by re chambering a remington 700 is that it's a 1:16 twist barrel, which is a little slow even for some of the longer 250 grain bullets, and way too slow for anything heavier. IMO, there's no point in building a 358 STA just to feed it a steady diet of 200 grain bullets.
16 June 2013, 03:33
drm-hpI built my 35 Whelen on a pre-64 Model 70, w/Krieger 1:10 barrel. I would not only do this again, I would keep this as my one big game rifle if I was forced to, for many reasons.
Good luck with yours,
Doug
