Newbie here. I'm going to rebarrel my Sako that's currently a .270. My goal is a Mule Deer rifle and a maximum shot of 500 yards. Can you convince me to change from .270 to a .280AI?
Thanks. Stu

No, I can't convince you. Going from the .270 to .280AI is purely a matter of personal taste. It's mostly whether you want a wildcat and everything that entails. If so, have fun with it. If not, don't feel undergunned because there isn't a mule deer on earth that can tell the difference between the .270 and the .280AI....even at the 500 yards you mention.

I have to agree with Duckboat, .270/.280AI is not significant. 500 yds is a long shot, not unheard of, but seldom done. I would probably choose a .300 mag if I really thought I was going to make 500 yard shots, JMO.

IMO, you already have a rifle in a cartridge that is capable of meeting your goal. Rebarreling it to 280AI will not help you attain your goal.

IMO, PRACTICE AT 500 yds (from field positions) is the most important thing you could do to reach your goal.

Take the $$ you would have spent to rebarrel(and buy dies, and fireform, etc.) and instead by ammo, or reload ammo, for your 270 and practice at the ranges that you want to shoot deer.

If you are dead set on rebarreling, why not just go with an available caliber like the 7mag? the 280AI was developed to compete with the 7mag., but just doesn't quite get there. Close, though.

You will definitely have a down range advantage with this over the 270. The 160gr. out of the 7mag, will do better than the 150gr. out of the 270, and a lot flatter trajectory and energy.

Thanks men, I think I should stick with the .270. New brass, dies etc for the same performance. I bought this rifle when I was in high school (30 years ago). She doesn't group like it used to and the smith says there's throat erosion-so a new barrel is in order. I don't want to redo the bolt face so I was going to stick with a 30-06 based cartridge for the barrel change.
I have a .300 WSM that can do the deed with either deer or elk.
Another option would be a 338-06 or 35 Whelen-just thinking outloud here.

Thanks again. Stu

quote:

You will definitely have a down range advantage with this over the 270. The 160gr. out of the 7mag, will do better than the 150gr. out of the 270, and a lot flatter trajectory and energy.

Let's look at the data regarding trajectory and energy. From the Federal website:

1)Federal 270 150gr partition
2)Federal 7Mag 160gr partition

500yd drop from 200yd zero: the 7Mag has a 4" advantage (-40" vs -44")

500 yd energy is 1479 vs 1238

I doubt that any deer will know the difference in 241 ft-lbs of energy. And if 40" versus 44" at 500yds is significant, you have better eyes (and steadier hands) than I.

Oh, and for the same weight rifle, the recoil is 40% more.

If you are considering other -06 based cartridges and have to rebarrel anyway, you might consider the 6.5-06. For open country deer hunting it is superb. It is similar to the 270, but if you want something different, it would be a great choice.

quote:

Originally posted by Buff:
She doesn't group like it used to and the smith says there's throat erosion-so a new barrel is in order.

I have a brand new Lilja stainless #3 contour .277 3 groove, 1-10" twist barrel sitting in my safe ready to go to a smith. I bought it just about a month ago.

I was considering a 270 WSM, but have decided to wait.

$320 shipped. I paid $315 plus $8 shipping.

First off, I am the origianal 270 nut, so I would never talk you out of one. Having said that, I recently did a couple of the 280 AI rigs, and they have a little more thump, a little more PITA factor (genuine wildcat) and a little more cool factor IMO. They are a stone hammer on deer of whatever kind, and just give you a little something different. I like some of the bullets available, the 160 AB is doing the trick for me.

you can get either brass from federal, any "difference" is in the eyes of the owner

Doc--If that was a chrome molly barrel, I'd be all over it. Thanks for the offer. I'm going to stick with blue on this one.
Thanks again. Stu

I've never been a 270 fan, but unless you just want something diff. there is little to no advantage in rebarreling to 280AI IMO, & I love my 280.

quote:

Originally posted by Buff:
Doc--If that was a chrome molly barrel, I'd be all over it. Thanks for the offer. I'm going to stick with blue on this one.
Thanks again. Stu

mmmm mmmm mmmm, big mistake. chrome moly won't shoot better than 5" groups at 50 yards.

If it needs rebarreling, I'd rebarrel it to a standard .280 just to get the superior cartridge and better bullet choice.
I agree, 500 yards is a loooong ways.

I would say just offhand that as good as the .270 is, and it is plenty good, that any 7mm using the same amount or more of powder is slightly better. Why? Because the bullet selection in .284" size is much broader than the bullet selection in .277".........

Keep your 270win

My advice is stick with a 270.

If you just want something different, go with the regular 280 Remington, instead of the 280 Ackley Improved.

I just made a heck of a deal on a 280AI on a Springfield action. I would have been just as happy were it a 270, 280 or 7RM. I got dies and lots of bullets but it will be a while before I wring it out at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
you can get either brass from federal, any "difference" is in the eyes of the owner

You can also buy brass or loaded ammo for the 280AI from Nosler...

A waste of your money...A good .270 is hard to beat and you will not be able to tell any difference in the field in trajectory or killing power.

I've got a 270 with a Hart barrel and a 280AI with a Kreiger barrel. With Nosler making 280AI brass plus if it's chamber right you can shoot factory 280 loads so you have afew more choices going with the 280AI IMHO.

I try and stay away from this caliber vs that otherwise might never try something new. I build the 280AI for long shots on deer here in Co maybe elk using 150gr TSX bullet. My wife shots a factory 270 last year she decided to try "my" 280AI and now it's "her" rifle so I'm going to build me another 280AI.

Wish you luck.

Hey buff

When I rebarreled my Sako 270, I went with a 280AI with a 26" Hart barrel. It's great and easily shoots a 160 gr Accubond at 3000 fps with 4 or 5 grains less powder than the 7 mag takes to do the same thing. To me the 280AI is more gun than the 270 because of the 160 gr or even 175 gr bullets, or shoot the 140 gr bullets if you like light ones.

One caution though, I don't know if your Sako is a 3 lug bolt like mine is, but if it is you might have a problem with the lug hitting the shoulder of the case on the 280AI. Mine did but there is a solution.

Brass and dies are no problem with the 280AI and you can just shoot factory 280 remington in a pinch.

500 yds isn't really that long of a shot, shoot what you want.
If you want a 270, stay with a 270. I would consider the 6.5/06 though. You can get better selection of long range bullets in 6.5, than .277. 6.5 is a little more stable and little less wind drift. The one real advantage of the 6.5/06, is the cool factor. Not really that much different than .270, but how many 270s out there, same as the 280ai.
As soon as I finish shooting out my 06, I'm going to the 6.5/06. Easy to make brass, either 25/06 or 270 donor brass.
RC

Thanks for your opinions. Stu

quote:

Originally posted by Buff:
Doc--If that was a chrome molly barrel, I'd be all over it. Thanks for the offer. I'm going to stick with blue on this one.
Thanks again. Stu

you can always have it teflon coated, and I have a Lilja barrel on my 338 fed and it is easy to clean and shoots awesome.

I've heard of Teflon coating but never seen one upclose. Who does it and how does it look?

Stu

get a straight 284win! I rebarrel a 25-06 to 280AI, i was going to have 284win but decided for a little more power and since i had the long action alreaddy.

proud 270 owners who have never owned anything but a 270 were surprised with i shota few animals infront of them that they actually died instantly.

I would go with the plain .280 Rem. because it is inherently more accurate than the .270 Win. and simpler to reload(brass) than the Ackley.

Still, if you want to step up in performance, the Ackley can be loaded up to basically a 7mm mag. and will certainly outperform the .270 Win.

Gentlemen ----- My .270 WSM out performs all mentioned thus far in the discussion. Good shooting

Stu, why we need to convince you???
.270 is a very good caliber, if you need to rebarrel your gun, you have shot a lot ammo with it, so you know the qualities from this caliber.
.280 is the same caliber with a heavier bullet. A.I. will give you a bit more speed but nothing to do with a 7mm Rem Mag or other 7 Mag.
If you'll change, then change seriously, buy a new gun!!!

Faina

quote:

Originally posted by Faina:

.280 is the same caliber with a heavier bullet. A.I. will give you a bit more speed but nothing to do with a 7mm Rem Mag or other 7 Mag.

Actually the .280 Ackley is right at the heels of the 7mm magnum. An average of 70-80 fps slower, with less powder, less recoil, sturdier brass life, and greater magazine capacity. I also much prefer the non-belted cases and the 40 degree shoulder ensures reduced case stretch and tight expansion tolerances which equate to consistent bore expansion/contraction. The .280AI is an extremely accurate round.

buff,
stay 270 wcf,you have the dies,heck its neck and neck with the also Famous 30-06 ,that alone puts you in Great company....can you shoot 1/2 moa at 500 yds? regards

I have used a 270 all my shooting life and really like them. When I got bored I chambered 5 of the 270's to 270AI's. Reguardless of what MR A says, I did see a realistic velosity change and now I can spend more time in the reloading bench and the range playing with my new toys. I have shot a Rocky Mt Bighorn, Desert Bighorn, Dall sheep, Thar, Mule deer and Elk with in the last few years and have really enjoyed the rifles. My hunting partner took his to Africa 3x and has shot so many plains game I would not know where to start with the list.. Just another idea for you..John

quote:

Can you convince me to change from .270 to a .280AI?

NO!!!, stick with the 270 or go with a regular 280. On paper and in theory the 280 is a "little better", but no one would ever be able to tell the difference in the field.

If you like the 270 stick with it.

Hey Colmacivor--What is the real world difference between the .270 & the .270AI in velocity?

Thanks. Stu

quote:

Originally posted by Buff:
Newbie here. I'm going to rebarrel my Sako that's currently a .270. My goal is a Mule Deer rifle and a maximum shot of 500 yards. Can you convince me to change from .270 to a .280AI?
Thanks. Stu

[QUOTE]Originally posted by duckboat :
No, I can't convince you. Going from the .270 to .280AI is purely a matter of personal taste. It's mostly whether you want a wildcat and everything that entails. If so, have fun with it. If not, don't feel undergunned because there isn't a mule deer on earth that can tell the difference between the .270 and the .280AI....even at the 500 yards you mention. duckboat/QUOTE]

If I was considered about a 500 yard shot I d go with a .270 or a 7mm Weatherby.

Personally, I wouldn't go to the .270AI based on velocity improvment which is probably around 100 fps., I would go with the .270 AI based on improved case technology. The nice thing about the Ackley Improved cases is they are straight walled and the sharp degree angle slope of the neck allows great chamber adherence of the brass. This allows for very little bolt thrust and case stretch. This is simply for convenience because this means much less case trimming. When you factor in the $100.00 odd dollars more you pay for the AI dies, it takes a fair amount of shooting to recoupe that back in purchasing brass in a regular .270 Win. that can itself be load 5-8 times of each brass.

In all honesty, if I had the cash, I would shoot an Ackley caliber (probably 280AI or 30/06AI) simply because they look so good! The 280AI cartridge looks so high tech and precise. It looks like a 300 Weatherby without the weakly looking radiused shoulders:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/280ai.html

I seem to get better than 100ft/sec but I have 26" bbls (krieger, pac-nor, and hart). I have killed 26 of my 29 North American sheep with the old 270 Winchester so I'm not saying that you need the AI for anything extra, I just like it. I have never tried to put a value on my pleasures but as I get older I find that I have more time and really enjoy the simple fact that my bullets are going faster cuz I'm not..JM

quote:

Originally posted by Buff:
I've heard of Teflon coating but never seen one upclose. Who does it and how does it look?

Stu

It looks like a blued barrel with a matte finish. H-S Presicion does a lot of stainless barrels on their rifles but teflon coating. But, you get the benefits of a stainless barrel!

Take a look at this one and you can see what a stainless bbl looks like with Teflon coat:

1/2 moa H-S rifle