The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 300 Win Mag vs. 30-06Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 300 Win Mag vs. 30-06 | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Starting to make more sense to get the 300 Win. Mag: - Usually in 24 vs. 22 barrel: This puts the muzzle that much farther out, reducing blast. - Barnes lists 180 TTSX: SPRG: 2510 - 2740 WIN MAG: 2805 - 3010 The SPRG gives 250 fps window of range to find the most accurate charge. The goal being 0.5" @ 100 The Win Mag. gives 200 fps window. However, the chance of getting a 0.5" group in good power range is much better. The SPRG limits the power range to the highest pressure to shoot the 180 TTSX to 300 yards point blank range. 300 Win. Mag just makes more sense. Recoil? http://www.battenfeldtechnolog...ily=past-recoil-pads | ||
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| One of Us |
A very interesting ballistics analysis. On paper anyway. | |||
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One of Us |
will only be felt on the bench, in the field, you'll never know | |||
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One of Us |
We all go thru phases...had I been smart, I would have kept my stock rem 700 in 30-06 that was an honest 3/4 moa gun and never bought another rifle other than my 375hh... I think 5 years from now you are going to be saying: Do I really need this extra recoil? How many shots do I really take beyond 250 yards? Clearly this is hunting rifle becuase not a lot of folks use a 300 Wm as their target gun... So I suspect when you are in the field and you are faced with a 265 yard shot...you are going to say...geez may be I can get 40 yards closer...and before you know it...tha 200 fps is going to be meaningless An Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have had a couple of 300 win mags. Don't have one now. I do have 2 30,06s. Nothing wrong with the 300 win mag. I guess what matters to me is , do I need the extra power ? If you are going to be a 1 rifle hunter, mabye the 300 makes more sence, but in the unlikly event I need more power than the 30,06 I will use a .338 win. The 180 grain TSX is a great bullet, if you put it behind the shoulder of a deer or elk , the elk will go down real quick. I for one would be just as happy to use a 168 grain tsx from a .308. ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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| One of Us |
Do you agree? Paper doesn't cover wind. | |||
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| one of us |
I have hunted with the 308 and the 300 WBY and 300 Win Mag quite a bit. Here is how I choose between them... When I KNOW I will be shooting at 200 yards or less, and most likely at 100 yards or less I use the 308.... WHEN I go on a far away, expensive hunt, and might only get one chance at the animal, and that shot might be at a distance over 200 yards I take the 300 Mag... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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| one of us |
I shoot quite a few deer and hogs with a fairly wide selection of cartridges, but mostly I use the .308 or the .300 Win Mag. My truck gun, daily carry is a custom pre-64 M70 Shilen .300 WM. I've shot dozens and dozens of coyotes, deer, and hogs with it, not to mention a few head of African game, almost all, with the exception of the African game with non-premium factory loads. The gun is well below a MOA shooter with most loads. Frankly I think the dreaded recoil issue of the .300 Win Mag, or the .300 Weatherby Mag, is mostly bullshit and is a product of shooter fears instead of really punishing recoil. Now, if you're going to shoot the rifle for dozens of shots, then the difference between the .308 and the .300s becomes more of an issue, but for normal hunting use, it is, to repeat myself, pure  . Almost any medium heavy hunting 12 ga loads recoils significantly more than even a light wt .300 Mag rifle and some of the heavier loads MUCH more. Most hunters shoot 12 ga shotguns many more times in one day's decent hunting than they will in a season with a .300 mag rifle with little or no complaints or ill effects. With .300 mags, it ain't the recoil of the rifle, it's in the mind of the shooter and this is from someone who doesn't love to have the snot kicked out of him like some of the big bore nuts. I'm not knocking the .30-06, have shot one in Africa with great success, just stating that if you want a bit more, then don't be afraid to go to one of the dreaded magnums, because there isn't much to dread, in reality.xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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| One of Us |
If you handload, and can accept one less in the magazine, then the 300 Win Mag makes sense in that you can always load it down to 30-06 levels. It does, however, even when loaded down to 30-06 levels still use MORE powder! I think that its only advantage is if you regularly need to use top end weight bullets of 220 grains at any range. Or 180 grain bullets at long range. I think that there are, like 357 Magnum revolvers using 38 Special power handloads, a lot of 300 Win Mags using handloaded ammunition that is loaded down to 30-06 levels! Lastly FWIW 300 Win Mag is a worldwide available calibre acceptable in those odd corners where military calibres such as 30-06 are banned. Would I use one in the UK? No the game we get here doesn't require it. And I don't shoot at above 150 yards anyway. Would I use one in France, on wild boar, where 30-06 is banned? Yes, probably,...if I didn't already have my 280! So if you are happy with 150 to 180 grain bullets at under 150 yards I don't think the loss of that fourth cartridge in the magazine of the 300 Win Mag vs the 30-06 makes it worth it. Unless, of course, you fall on a beauty of a custom rifle in 300 Win Mag at a "steal" price at a gun show! | |||
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One of Us |
Agreed. That said, I really can't see the problem with using a 30/06 for 300 or even 400 yard shots. | |||
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| one of us |
I vacillated on this subject prior to my elk hunt this year, the light weight 06 or the heavy long range boomer 300 win. I took the 300 win and scored an elk I don't think I would have gotten with the 06. Shot was through a small hole in the timber at 411 yds, I made it with a 210 Berger and 76 gr of H-1000. I am not saying that the 06 would not have made the same shot, I don't think my confidence level would have been the same. Recoil or handling recoil is part of practice, I don't think anyone likes it, you just teach yourself to deal with it. Like your mother in law. Windage and elevation, Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation... | |||
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One of Us |
3006  1- cheap cases and less powder. 2- universal caliber . you can find ammo everywhere in the world. 3- less muzelle blast. 4-with high energy loads from fedral or light magnum loads from hornady. you can come very close to 300 wm.i get 2850 fps with 180 gr nosler pt from my ruger all weather in 3006. 5- cheap surplus ammo for plinking or smal game. 6. works better in shorter barrel than 300 wm. 7. longer barrel life due to using less powder . Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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| One of Us |
i have to agree with PO ackley on 300 mags, when he said to really any difference you had to be using a 200 gr or heavier bullet, he was referring to the H&H at the time | |||
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| One of Us |
i have 2 '06's right now and have had a .300mag. for my current hunting i don't need the .300,... mostly deer. i know that if i get the chance to go elk hunting the '06 will work just fine, as will one of my 7x57's for that matter. if you find yourself needing bullets on the heavy side allot the 300 might be the better choice. i supose if i lived in elk country i might see justifying one, but here's something else to consider.... some think they need/want the .300 mag for that possible long shot.... i'd think more about whether i was truely capable of taking that long shot. the extra punch from a .300mag doesn't mean much if you aren't sure of yourself in that situation and the extra recoil only adds to the difficulty. for most of us, the maybe once in a life time opportunity to hunt in country where the long distance capabilities of the .300mag is real are just dreaming to justify getting another gun. getting another gun ain't a bad thing by anyone's definition, but i'd rather get one i know i'll have a more frequent, honest use for. | |||
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| one of us |
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| One of Us |
"Do you agree?" ("Paper doesn't cover wind.") You asked for opinoons, I have one. Without looking up the paper velocity data, and disregarding the 1/2" accuracy comments, sure I agree. But in the field hunting skill - or luck - finds and marksmaship kills game, not paper. Anyone who thinks people can shoot 1/2" groups with the recoil of a 12 ga. is mistaken. And precious few can do it with a full power .30-06, never mind a .300. And it has little to do with a "fear" of the recoil, per se, it's just a fact that recoil makes a big difference on target, especially so in the field. No longer have a .300, just don't need it. My "big rifle" is a .30-06 for when I'm not using my .243 or .35 Rem. But then I don't hunt rino, just deer. So, yeah, on paper, anyone can clearly see how superior a .300 is. But, it's difficult to see that advantage over .30-06 speeds transfer to the field. That's why most of us eventually grow out of our paper balliistics infatuation. It's your money and you will have to live with the results, get whatever makes sense to you. | |||
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| One of Us |
Admittedly a 30-06 fanatic, I don't see the advantage of any big 30 at ranges under 350 longish yards. My buddies use the 300 Winchester, and I it shines at the 400+ yard mark. IMHO the cost isn't recoil, it's the weight of bigger barrels and better optics necessary for consistent long range accuracy. | |||
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| One of Us |
.30-06 vs .300. . . . . . . I have both, and have used the 06 a thousand times more then the .300. I like the .300 a LOT! However, for my use I view the .300 as a specialized rig for when I know I will be shooting much longer distances; where I like the 06 better for all around hunting. The .300 needs a longer barrel, burns more powder, and is a little more strenuous to pack all day. Bottom line, If I had neither, I would get an 06 first for all around use, and if I could afford it, I would then get the .300 as a specialized , long range rig. If I could only have ONE; I get the 06! Cheers. | |||
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| One of Us |
30/06 vs 300 Win...? If you want/need more than a 30/06 then get a 375  DRSS & Bolt Action Trash | |||
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| One of Us |
No 300 mags among my hunting buddies these days. Most use 308s and 30-06s, while I have carried a 358 Norma the last few years, appreciating the extra knock down effect on our red deer. One guy had a 300 mag, guess what he did? Rebarreled to 375 H&H, and got himself a light 308 that he uses. My hat is off to those of you who can successfully and with confidence bring down a critter at 400+ yds under field conditions. Your skills enable you to take advantage of the extra flatness of trajectory of a 300 mag. My own skills are nowhere near that. Think I will save a few ounces of carrying and use my '06 the rest of this season. Charlie's listening! | |||
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| one of us |
+1 Best advice yet. All of them will work, but not all of them will satisfy the shooter's particular wants. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have 'em both; like 'em both. Anybody that sez you can't do some good work with both of them accuracy-wise needs to shoot more. You have to shoot both the '06 and the 300 regularly to keep your hand in if you expect to be able to shoot them well. However, all that bullshit aside, as posted, get the one you want. Or, better yet, get both of them.  IMO, bullet weight for the 300 starts at 200grs. | |||
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One of Us |
Exactly right.   | |||
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| One of Us |
If I need something more powerful than a 30-06 I will go to my 9.3X62 or a .35 Whelen or a .375H&H etc. 300 Mags. shoot a little flatter but don't kill any quicker than the boring old 06. | |||
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| One of Us |
Ballistically -- Energy increases at the SQUARE of the velocity. Any distinction I've seen discussed between 300 WM and 30-06, .308 Win. etc. has to do with bullet energy and the size of the game being taken -- not effective range. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes! if that's the SWEET SPOT of the rifle. If the sweet spot on the 30-06 is shooting the 180 TTSX at 2500 fps, that's too slow IMO and limits range to 300 yards. Just too slow to shoot 400 yards. With the 300 Win. Mag. if the low end sweet spot is at 2800 fps that is a perfect velocity. If the sweet spot happens to be around 3000-3100 then wear a PAST on the bench. My goal is a tack driver with either caliber. | |||
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| One of Us |
If one can shoot a 180 TTSX at 3050 with tack driver accuracy, that will certainly extend the 300 Win. Mag to 400 yards with good optics. | |||
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| One of Us |
Accurate mono-metal bullets did not exist in his day: 308" 180 gr Tipped TSX BT .271 SD, .484 BC | |||
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| One of Us |
A modern 180 gr. Barnes TTSX from a 300 Mag. is almost guaranteed to zip completely through any moose or elk. I don't see the point of increasing recoil adding 20 grains to the bullet. A pass through is a pass through. | |||
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| One of Us |
Finding the reloading sweet spot greatly favours the 300 Win Mag. | |||
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| <Mike McGuire> |
I moved in that same direction several years ago. For example, the 270 Winchester and 300 Winchester have been ideal ballistics for my wants. However, with a 270 Wby and 300 Wby I only need to load for accuracy without being concerned about velocity. With just about any powder and bullet combination a 270 Wby will give the accuracy required and no matter what the accurate load is it will be as fast or faster than a maximum 270 Winchester load. | ||
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| One of Us |
if the difference isn't that big, why not go to a 308" Less recoil. Or, maybe, a 300 Savage. Less recoil. Or a 30-30. Less recoil. Or maybe a 300Whisper. No recoil, and a short action to boot. The law of diminishing returns applies just exactly where YOU apply it. I shot a nice mule deer buck last fall with my 416 Rigby. It did kill him; bang, flop, dead. Dismiss all this comparative jive. Buy just exactly what gives you a "Big Johnson" when you pick it out of the rack and work the bolt a couple times. Besides, you can always load down to maximum '06 power levels. You can drop velocity/energy levels much easier than going up. Safer, too... Rich bigger is better. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yup. Also the Savage rifle's are all so accurate now with the better stock's that choosing a 300 Mag. will yield no complaints in velocity and almost guarantee clover leafs within the loading charge window! I simply like those clover leafs! | |||
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| Moderator |
I have rifles chambered to both the 300WM and the '06, hunt with one or the other every year. My 300WM doesn't weigh any more than my '06, in spite of it's 24" barrel, coming in loaded at 8.5 pounds. Recoil in the field goes unnoticed but the 300 does have more blast. Unless I was never going to shoot past 300yds or hunt nothing larger than deer would I go with the '06 over the 300. I've packed my old 300WM all over the globe and shot untold numbers of game with it and it just works. It works up close or far away, works on moose and works on antelope. It makes hitting easier at long ranges...350yds+ and the bullets have more energy when they get there. | |||
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one of us |
I think exactly the same, but instead of a 308 I use a 30-06 for my local/short-medium hunting distances. For expensive red stags hunts in Argentina I have been using a 300 wm with good results. Maybe it's just an ilusion but it seems to hit harder than the 3006, and I have hunted red stags with both of them.. If I have to choose only one I will choose the 3006 due to the fact of being much easier to find ammo and cases in my country. L | |||
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| One of Us |
Sorry, I ain't bought into that "magic" bullet craze yet. I didn't get on the Weatherby band wagon neither. I still believe that aiming, and bullet placement has to count for something. And a big hunk of metal does the job better than a small hunk. | |||
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| One of Us |
When did physics become magic? 180 gr. TTSX w/ 99% weight retention 180 gr. lead w/ 60% weight retention Out of a 30-06 at 300 yards, i'll take a pass through any day. Hit the front shoulder? Not a problem. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have a both (in the exact same rifle) and if you practice with both and know your rifle the only difference you will notice is the 300 shoots a little flatter. Both will get the job done and the animal will not be able to distinguish which one shot it. | |||
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| One of Us |
AR Corey, Anything you can do using a .300 or a 30-06 with your ttsxbr549 or whatever out to 300 yards, I can do with a cup and core bullet! Including the pass through. Granted, for my own peace of mind, it will be a bonded bullet. And I don't have to worry about the hollowpoint clogging up with dirt or hair and not expanding. I do have a question?? If you're getting pass throughs, how are you weighing the bullets? | |||
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