anyone have a varment load and bullet combo.

Spray and Pray is about as good as it gets , what are you shooting it from and at what ?.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I shoot two different 7.62 x 39's, One a Bill Wiseman small action Sako, the other a Colt 16" flat top. The best all around load is 125 Speer TNT HP and AA 1680 powder, to what amount depends upon your rifle. I much prefer R-P brass for the small primer pockets. Second place is the Hornady 110 grain V-Max with more of the same powder mentioned. Velocity for the Speer in the Sako is 2400+, and 2550 for the Hornady.

Forgot to mention the Sierra 110 HP with the same Accurate Arms 1680... shot this load the other day in the Sako, pulled one but 4 in one hole at 100 yards.

Hope it helps and good shooting

Several years ago I killed 2 deer with an "AK-47" [Norinco semi-auto] using Hansen 123 gr [or 124gr can't remember]factory soft points. It worked great.

For serious shooting or for varmints I shoot the 7.62x39 out of two rifles; a Mini MKX Mauser and a accurzed Russian SKS. The Mini Mauser is capable of MOA with good bullets and the SKS is capable of 2 - 3 MOA. I find either the Hornady, Sierra or Speer 123-125 gr .310/.311 bullets to be the most accurate. I prefer H4227 powder as it has proven more accurate and achieves 2400 fps over 1680. I use R-P cases with SR primers in the Mini Mauser and W-W cases with LR primers in the SKS.

A sleeper bullet for the SKS for jack rabbits and called in coyotes is the 100 gr Remington 32-20 bullet when you can find them. At 2450 fps it explodes rabbits and drops coyotes in their tracks.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Spray and Pray is about as good as it gets , what are you shooting it from and at what ?.

Really! Nobody told my targets that.

So Crochus,
do we believe DrK or our own lying eyes"

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

do we believe DrK or our own lying eyes"

Let your heart guide you!

123 is a light for caliber .311/.312 bullet... and it depends on what you call varmits

i want a tiny bolt action in x39, but expect a good barrel in it...

i've scoped sks types and got 2MOA out of them, slightly better from time to time, and nearly always better than a 30 carb, with double the power

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
123 is a light for caliber .311/.312 bullet... and it depends on what you call varmits

i want a tiny bolt action in x39, but expect a good barrel in it...

Then you want a CZ 527. I've stayed out of this thread because my interest is primarily cast bullets. Haven't done much with jacketed bullets and most of that has been done with 150s.

There's no doubt that the CZ's have good barrels, though. My cast bullet loads would be accurate enough for woodchuck and coyote out as far as the trajectory will allow, say 175-200 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
Spray and Pray is about as good as it gets , what are you shooting it from and at what ?.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

..yep...and since we all know Ruger rifles don't shoot worth a crap when you combine an inaccurate commie round with a junk American rifle one can't even hit a paister at 100 yards...





Bob

lesee - this is the parent case of the 6PPC and 22PPC and we all know how inaccurate they are

I got the same kind of accuracy from my 527 with both Remington factory loads, and some of my handloads using Speer 150 gr .311 bullets. I was pleasantly surprised.

However, I'm still thinking it is a pea shooter, although accurate. I tried mine on a recent hog and deer hunt in Texas with mixed success. Two does, neck and head shot - DRT. One hog neck shot DRT. Another shot bout 125 yards, dropped, spun around, got up and ran off. Couldn't find it.

I feel more comfortable using a 308, and hope for less follow up searching the bush, but I'll probably try the 527 again - most likely with 150 gr bullets loaded hot. I think it's a precision shooter, pick your shots, 100 yard limit kind of rifle, but it sure is fun to shoot.
KB

Back to the topic.
Has anyone tried the AA 1680, which the books show produces the highest velocity?

I haven't tried any because I can't find it, but I did try AA2460 and H335, and AA2230. I think I could find a good load with any of those three powders, and I'm sure there are others suitable - just haven't had time to try them yet. I settled on 2460 for the handloads I took to Texas, and they proved very accurate at the range. I was using Speer 150 gr .311 bullets. I confess that the charge was more than the max per the book, but everything was OK, with no signs of excess pressure. The powder was compressed, but not much. The brass was Lapua, but I want to try some of the Remington with the small primers.

While at the range, I tried my handloads, and the Remington factory 125 soft point loads. They hit the target at the same place, at 100 yards, and within an inch of each other at 150 yards. I didn't get to shoot anything but paper with my handloads, because I chose to try the factory ammo first, then didn't get another chance. I shot the deer with some Cor Bon factory ammo which uses 150 gr .308 bullets, and once I got a steady rest, this ammo was not as accurate as the .311 stuff.

After having the one hog drop, then run off, using the Remington factory ammo, I'm pretty sure that I'll be trying to develop a good load with one of the 150 gr .311 bullets. The problem with this rifle is the temptation to take shots over 100 yards, which is no problem with most deer rifles. If sighted in dead on at 100 yards, it seems that the drop is about 4" at 150 yards. I suspect that the bullets won't even open up at the velocity retained at 150 yards, and maybe suspect at 100 yds.

IMO the 125 gr bullet is just a little too light for deer or pigs, unless the shot is just right. I know some guys who say they have killed lots of pigs with a 22 magnum, and certainly if that's true, the 7.62x39 is better in comparison. But I'm still skeptical.

Yet, I have no intention of selling the rifle, or leaving it on the shelf, so I'll probably try it again, but be very careful with my shot placement and range.
KB

Hey don't shoot the messenger fellas !. it was a Joke !. I see a lot of you are humorless or my jokes stink . Surplus ammo worn AK's or SKS !.

I myself don't own a bolt action in that caliber as I never considered it a viable cartridge ! JMO .
What I stated earlier about Spray & Pray is actually HOW that cartridge is Used through out the World !.
I'm trying to figure out what accurate cartridge ?, I'm going to turn 2880 Lapua Brass boxer primed Cartridges into after I empty them in those afore mentioned worthless relics I own !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Hey Kabluewy, I have tried AA 1680 along with dozens of other powders in my Ruger. In my rifle, 1680 produced good velocities in the lighter bullets, but with the 150's velocity was kinda slow. I tried a lot of powders with the 150's and found N-130, AA 2015, H322 and R-7 to produce the most velocity. R-7 was the fastest along with the least compression, but it was also the least accurate.

I could not find a .310-.311 150gr bullet that would expand and penatrate at the velocities of the 7.62x39. They are just to hard. I gave up on the larger dia. bullets and consentrated on the .308 bullets. I found that my Ruger did pretty well with the Speer 130 and 150gr FN, Nosler 150gr BT, Hornady 150gr RN and my favorite Barnes 150gr 30-30 FN. If you are looking for a bullet that will work out to about 150-175 yards, check out the Nosler BT and see if it shoots.

Well, I've got a CZ 527 in 7.62x39. For varmints I like 123gr. Hornady bullets over AA1680, accourding to the books the load I use is rather HOT, just shading 2500 fps, so I'll just say I've had no problems with it. Kills coyotes and gophers well enough out to 200yds. I use it for calling or plinking gophers. Accuracy is around 1" plus. For serious work I have a CZ527 Varmint in 223.

As for heavier stuff, mixed results. My load was 150gr Sierra .311 at about 2200 fps, chronographed. Shot a kudu cow at about 30 yds with it and she staggered about 20 yds and fell dead. Complete penitration with some expantion. The next Kudu cow got one through the heart, literally, at 100+yds and lived for about a half an hour. That was the last of trying to kill kudu with that load. Frankly, the 123gr Horn load has proved to be a much better killer on deer etc than the 150gr.

It might be worth a try to see if 170gr Nosler Partitions at say 2000fps will shoot well in your rifle. That's about what a 18" bbl 30-30 will produce and I suppose the NP is designed to function at that velocity.

hornaday110 gr.hollow point with25.0gr.of 4227gives about 2558fpsin a Ruger mini-30

Sometimes I wish the 527 simply had a .308 groove barrel. But it doesn't, so we deal with it. If my factory barrel was not so accurate, I would have that thing replaced with a stainless .308 barrel, but I can't yet justify such an expenditure, no matter that I want to. Pac Nor has a chamber they call the 7.62x39 Lapua, which is exactly what I would be looking for.

However, neverthless, and-so-forth, it would be far more practicle to find a workable .310 or .311 bullet, since there is only so much that can be obtained out of this cartridge anyway. A .308 barrel would not be a significant gain ballistically, only the availability of bullets is greater for handloading.

I'm going to try some of the Barnes .310 TSX bullets 123 gr, which are made especially for the 7.62x39. I'm sure they are designed to open up at the velocities obtainable. If they are accurate, it would be difficult to get more out of any bullet with the limits of this cartridge, whatever weight, or whether .308 or .311.

KB

Have you tried 308 bullets in your CZ527?

I did a test awhile back and found NO measurable accuracy difference between .308 and .311 diameter bullets. I attribute this to the CZ's .300 BORE diameter

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=598101434#598101434

The only .308 bullets I tried were the Cor Bon 150gr factory loads. Those were not as accurate as my handloads or the Remington 125 gr factory loads, but the Cor Bons were not bad - just slightly less accurate. So, that may not be because of the bullet diameter.

There are others who have said they get good accuracy form .308 bullets in the 527, so you've convinced me to give it a try with handloads.

I had my 527 barreled action professionally glass bedded, and most of the barrel is free floated, but the receiver is bedded, lug and tang. I didn't try the rifle for accuracy before bedding, so I can't compare the results before and after. I do know that the rifle will shoot as accurately as I can hold it properly. My handloads using Speer .311 150gr bullets and the Remington factory bullets were equally accurate, and shot to the same place at 100 yards. I shot several three shot groups with the holes touching each other, and several more spread out a little, but still about an inch. I'm very happy with the accuracy and consistancy. If the .308 bullets will do the same - WOW - yippikyaye.

KB

Sounds like you need to swap out expanders on your dies and get to work

Keep us posted.

Try the Nosler 125 BT and the Speer 125 TNT or the Sierra 125 SP and AA 1680, Remington brass and Fed or Rem Sm Rifle primers. Note 150 BT or 150 Sierra MK's are awesome accurate as well.

quote:

Originally posted by 308Sako:
The best all around load is 125 Speer TNT HP and AA 1680 powder, to what amount depends upon your rifle. I much prefer R-P brass for the small primer pockets. Second place is the Hornady 110 grain V-Max with more of the same powder mentioned. Velocity for the Speer in the Sako is 2400+, and 2550 for the Hornady.

I've been interested in these two bullets. Could you tell me about the on game performance? Especially the TNT.

I'm hoping to shoot 100-150 lb. blacktail deer with behind the shoulder shots. It's ok if the bullets come apart as long as they penetrate enough. Tracking is difficult in thick cover and heavy rain so I need to drop them where they stand. I was thinking that with the reduced velocity of the 7.62x39 these varmint bullets might work.

I think I've got a handle on that 125 BT, it should work as well.

Thanks
Bigfoot

Bigfoot,
I think you are in for some disappointment if you expect to drop a blacktail where he stands with a behind the shoulder shot from the 7.62x39. I'm sure it's possible, but more likely the deer will run a ways. Heck, they often run when shot with a 308 Win.

Keep us posted on how that works out for you.

Meanwhile, I'm going forth with my experiment using the Barnes 123 gr TSX, which should be designed properly to open up and penetrate, since the bullet is made especially for the 7.62x39, according to Barnes. I think using a bullet designed to come apart is going the wrong direction, and more likely to wound a deer sufficiently to kill it, but far away from where it was standing when shot. Heck, I would trust Remington factory core lokt ammo before any varmint bullet. I'm pretty sure it won't explode, like the TNT's and such. Save the TNTs for coyotes.

I'm going to try some handloads too, using 150 gr 30-30 bullets.

These are just opinions, since I have limited experience with this cartridge, but I think this cartridge is actually below the minimum necessary for sure and clean kills on deer and hogs. This is a cartridge which will more often than not result in following a shot animal into the bush for recovery, and requires a high degree of prudence in selecting the shot, and placement. This cartridge needs all the help it can get when used on deer size game.

KB

The 300 Whisper shooters say that they get good expansion and penetration on deer with the 125 Sierra SP and 125 Nosler BT at 2200-2300 fps. I'm trying to find out how the 125 Speer TNT bullet reacts at these velocities as well. I have a hunch that it's a bit more explosive. But thats just a hunch which is why I asked someone who has experience shooting it.

Cor-Bon has a 7.62x39 and 308 loading that uses a HP bullet that appears to be the TNT, not sure about that though. In the 7.62x39 load the bullet doesn't expand very well, interesting. If 308SAKO comes back and tells us how fast the TNT expands and how deep that it penetrates then I'll know if Cor-Bon loads some other bullet instead.

Bigfoot

That is interesting that the Cor-Bon 125 gr loads don't expand very well. They also show 150 gr loads, which were the ones I took to Texas on the hunt, and the shots I took didn't seem to expand either, but they were not good tests.

I noticed about the Cor-Bon loaded ammo is that they use Winchester brass, and it appears Sierra 150 gr .308 bullets. The necks of the brass were wrinkled. I don't know if that affected the accuracy, but I suspect it did.

Cor-Bon also shows on their site ammo loaded with the Barnes TSX 123 gr bullet, but apparently it's not yet available. These are .310 bullets.

I ordered two boxes (50 bullets each) of the Barnes from Midway. Darn expensive bullets - close to 90 cents each, but if they work as they should, they will be worth it. I also bought a box of 125 gr Sierra SP Pro Hunter in .311, which cost 1/4 the price of the Barnes. I expect the Sierras to be very accurate, as have all the Sierras I have ever used. So for plinking, target shooting, small game, coyotes, etc., the Sierras should be great. They will probably work on deer or pigs too, but I want to save the Barnes for that purpose, if they prove to be accurate.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Big-foot:
The 300 Whisper shooters say that they get good expansion and penetration on deer with the 125 Sierra SP and 125 Nosler BT at 2200-2300 fps. .

Bigfoot

I contacted Sierra a few years ago and asked if the 125gr Pro Hunter would expand properly on Whitetails at 7.62x39 velocities out to about 150 yards. One tech told me flat out, NO, it will just pencil through. I called again and talked to a different tech and was told that the 125gr Pro Hunter will expand "some" and get the job done. Not a lot of expansion, "some". They both recommended the Sierra 125gr 30-30 Pro Hunter instead.
Two of my favorite .308 7.62x39 bullets that were specifically designed for low velocity expansion and penetration. The Sierra 135gr SSP and the Hornady 130gr SSP. These bullets were the cat's ass when it came to the 7.62x39, accuracy, penetration and expansion all in a SP bullet. Unfortunately they are now "discontinued".
I tried the Barnes 150gr 30-30 FN in my Ruger. This bullet was extremely accurate. The only problem was that it wouldn't feed properly in my semi-auto. If I could get this bullet to feed, it would be my choice for Whitetails.

Bigfoot[/QUOTE] I contacted Sierra a few years ago and asked if the 125gr Pro Hunter would expand properly on Whitetails at 7.62x39 velocities out to about 150 yards. One tech told me flat out, NO, it will just pencil through. I called again and talked to a different tech and was told that the 125gr Pro Hunter will expand "some" and get the job done. Not a lot of expansion, "some". They both recommended the Sierra 125gr 30-30 Pro Hunter instead.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that info, which is going to save me some time and aggravation, since my goal is to reduce the probability of lengthy follow-up in the bush. In the end, I may conclude that taking my .308 Winchester instead is the proper choice. But the darn 527 sure is fun to shoot and mess with. I like the accuracy and low recoil.

The thing that keeps me thinking about it, and willing to stay with it, is the potential of it being the equal of the 30-30, with the right load. When I was young, and deer hunting in Georgia, I used a Remington 788 in 30-30 to take several deer, and I never did feel like the rifle was inadequate. Somehow, I imagine this CZ 527 as being the replacement for that long gone 30-30 Rem 788.
KB

After much research I determined that the 125grn Nosler b-tip is THE 7.62x39 bolt action game bullet. Nosler clamims that these will expand reliably all the way down to an impact velocity of 1600 fps also making them the ideal 30-30 handgun bullet as well.

My pet load using this bullet in my CZ527 doesn't drop below this velocity threshold until it passes the 400yard mark, so inside 250yds you should be golden

If I had a 527 bolt action I would try the 150gr 30-30 Barnes FN or the Nosler 150gr BT.
Barnes FN
Muzzle Velocity 2150fps, 1549fpe
100 Yards MV 1875fps, 1170fpe
150 Yards MV 1747fps, 1016fpe

Nosler BT
Muzzle Velocity 2150fps, 1539fpe
100 Yards MV 1978fps, 1302fpe
150 Yards MV 1894fps, 1194fpe

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
After much research I determined that the 125grn Nosler b-tip is THE 7.62x39 bolt action game bullet. Nosler clamims that these will expand reliably all the way down to an impact velocity of 1600 fps also making them the ideal 30-30 handgun bullet as well.

Let us know how they shoot. I just finished loading about 100 125gr BTs to try in my ASI rebarreled Mini 30. I loaded, IMR 4198, H 4198, IMR 4227, AA 1680, R-7, N-130, H 322, 10X, AA 2015 and Ramshot XT. Hopefully one of these combos will shoot?

It's going to be awhile before I can test them out though. 15 below and 25 mile/hour winds kinda put a damper on the range time.

MY cz shoots the 125g Noslers to the tune of about 1.5 MOA using a stiff charge of AA1680

I hunted deer with my mini thirty for years in Wisconsin. After I added a "flash supressor" as a joke and found that the barrel harmonics improved as well as refined the hand loads that I achieved the accuracy. I still regard the rifle as a "100 yard" deer gun. If you hunt squirrels with a 10-22 and snipe them, you will do well with the mini thirty. Shot placement is the key.

I have a trio of CZ 527s in 7.62x39mm. The first one is close to a MOA shooter with handloads and a dandy lightweight woods rifle.

The R-P 150 grain 30-30 bullet is a dandy deer bullet. 26.0 grains of IMR 4198 in a R-P case clocks 2300 fps in my rifle.

Long ago I purchase a 500 piece box of .311 130 grain Norma bullets, and that with 26.7 IMR 4198 is a fine load developing 2350 fps.

26.7 grains of Rl-7 and the Sierra 150 grain .311 bullet delivers 2208 fps and sub-moa accuracy.

What about the others? One is destined to become a 6.5 Grendel, the other a fast-twist 22 PPC.

Many years ago the Sth Australian big bore association (I think) ran a few Omark actions chambered to 7.62x39 as "cheap" target rifes. Built "right" the issue with them was different headspace dimensions between the various ex-mil rounds selling cheap at the time. Set up for one particular ammunition ... they shot close to possibles in fullbore competition. Trajectory limited them to 300m competition.

Take out the variations by using quality components and reloading your own ... there's no reason it shouldn't be a well and truely sub-MOA capable cartridge.
Cheers...
Con

I've just ordered a shilen select match barrel for my savage chambered for 7.62x39 that features a 1/15" twist and a 26" bull profile and a .308 bore. Shooting 110grn Bergers and v-maxes I intend to find out what this cartridge can do out to 300m

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
I've just ordered a shilen select match barrel for my savage chambered for 7.62x39 that features a 1/15" twist and a 26" bull profile and a .308 bore. Shooting 110grn Bergers and v-maxes I intend to find out what this cartridge can do out to 300m

What reamer are you going to use?

I've got a Kiff 7.62x39 "Match" reamer that's sized about right for Lapua brass, and has a .3085 throat diameter, was thinking of doing about the same thing as you are.

quote:

Originally posted by fireball168:

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
I've just ordered a shilen select match barrel for my savage chambered for 7.62x39 that features a 1/15" twist and a 26" bull profile and a .308 bore. Shooting 110grn Bergers and v-maxes I intend to find out what this cartridge can do out to 300m

What reamer are you going to use?

I've got a Kiff 7.62x39 "Match" reamer that's sized about right for Lapua brass, and has a .3085 throat diameter, was thinking of doing about the same thing as you are.

According to shilen the reamer they use doesn't have a throat so I've had to mail them a dummy round

I'm a caster. Know from experience that you can get dramatic expansion from a .30-30 by casting the nose of lead and the body of the bullet of a harder alloy. My CZ 527 is shooting really well with Lee C312-155-2R at 2200 fps.

That looks like the best current option. 60 grains of lead at the nose will give Nosler Partion type performance, and terminal velocities will exceed anything you can get from a round or flat nosed bullet.