Just got back from the range with my Sako Finnlight 7/08 to zero in a scope and fireform some brass. Federal 140grain Ballistic Tips shot 11 out of 12 (one called flier) into 1.125" at 100yds. I have been leery of the Ballistic Tips, but was wondering what the performance has been at 7/08 velocities? I have 140, 150, and 120 gr Ballistic Tips to play with.

The 140gr. Ballistic Tips worked fine in my 7x57.

Joe A.

Ballistic tips are perfect for cartridges with moderate velocities such as the 7MM08 or 7 X 57..

They perform very well in my M700 Mountain Rifle in 7MM08..

I think much of the bad press that BTs have recieved is a result of people pushing them to max velocities in magnum cartridges.. The 7MM 140 BT has worked flawlessly for me in my 7MM08 and.280 for game up through the size of caribou..

Since you have 120's to play with, try them out. If they are not real old they have a thicker jacket than the 140's.

About 3 years ago, I took 2 doe and a good sized boar javelina with them shooting the deer behind the shoulder and javelina in the shoulder. All three dropped dead in their tracks with exit wounds. I have shot the 120's only in the 7-08 with a mild 42 gr. load of Varget. I use the 140 - 150 BT's in my 7x57 and .280.

With BT's, I load to about 2700 - 2800 fps and have no trouble with them not holding together. The 150 out of the .280 leaves GOOD blood trail..... if they run. Merg

270 win:

150 btip @ 2700 fps= 100% dead deer for years
140 btip @ 2850 fps= 100% dead deer for years
130 btip @ 2900 fps= 100% dead deer for years

300 win mag:

180 btip @ 2900 fps= 100% dead deer

7mm Rem Mag:

140, 150 Btips at slower velocities = dead whitetails and mule deer since 1990.

Suggestion: just don't make the bullet go as fast as possible and have fun. The bullet works just fine.

I use some 130gr Nosler BT's out of my 270 the last two years. I had some loaded from a rifle that went down the road

100% on deer and antelope. They sure make a louder thwack than the Barnes TSX, at least to my ears. Great penetration and nice wound channels.

I just loaded some 7mm 140gr BT's for a friends daughter who happens to shoot a 7mm-08. I don't foresee any problems as long as she does her part.

I think the newer ones are better. The last time I tried them was in high school in the middle 80's.

I had to try them because of the cool tip. Just like the bullets Chuck Norris used in the opening scene of Lone Wolf McQuade.

I got explosive results out of 270. I went back to old tried and true Hornday 130gr Spire points.

I have shot quite a few WT deer and a couple Caribou bulls with the 140 gr BT from a 280 Rem. I recovered one from a WT doe at 150 yds, all others have been pass throughs.This includes quartering on and away shots.

The 120 gr BT is very robust, it is made with a 140 gr BT jacket and cut down to a 120 gr profile. This gives it a thicker jacket and it holds together well, even at 280 AI velocities. It will be a dynamite bullet for WT deer in your 7mm08.

JD338

Have to agree with everyone else that the BTs in 7mm08 is a deadly combination. For that matter, between my dad and I, we've killed deer and hogs with at least 8 different bullets in our 7mm08s, and none have gone more than 10 ft. yet.

I was shooting the 150 BT in my 7mm mag, and it did kill deer, but most ran 50-8- yds. and the meat damage was severe. FWIW.

Like they said, the BT problems come when they are going well beyond 7mm08 velocities.

To digress slightly from the thread if I may, my question is what then is the difference between the BT and the Accubond in the same weight at the same velocity?

use Accubond bullets for edible game.. i'll pass on starting a jihad on BT's . just lets all ask ourselves why nosler made a visually identical bullet, and designate it as a hunting bullet,that lists as a feature, a bondig feature to prevent bullet failure? (jacket seperation in a hunting bullet is ALWAYS a bullet failure, regardless of death of the target) ...

quote:

Originally posted by Westernmassman:
...I have been leery of the Ballistic Tips, but was wondering what the performance has been at 7/08 velocities?

That was a somewhat valid concern when they came in 100-count boxes. They were much more fragile back then and resulted in Varmint Bullet style performance on Big Game. But, there are smart, dedicated Hunters working at Nosler who recognized the problems and implemented Design Changes to correct the problem. Now the Bullets which are labeled for Varmints really should be used on Varmints, and the others are excellent for Big Game.

quote:

I have 140, 150, and 120 gr Ballistic Tips to play with.

I prefer to max-out at 140gr in my 7mm-08 and use 145gr and heavier weights in my 7mmRemMag.

The 140gr provides nearly an ideal balance of achievable velocity, retained energy and flat trajectory. With the 50-count generation of B-Tips, you should be able to get Shoulder-to-Shoulder Exits on Whitetail, just as I have.

Even the older 120gr B-Tips surprised me with how well they worked. I always got Exits when going in just aft of the leg/shoulder and on through the off-side leg/shoulder making a nice Exit. I'd expected them to remain inside, but that was the exception.

The Big Game B-Tips are fine Bullets for Deer when placed so you utilize the best advantages of their specific Designs.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

270 win. 7MM-08 A 7MM-08 is a very good deer round, and with it being a short action makes it better. i have not, but i have read where elk has been taken with this round..

140 gr. bil.tip. 44 grs of RL-15 shot at 2920 with 1.00" groups. but,I get better accurace out of my sierra spbt 140s. I also use 43 grs. of IMR-4064. not as fast, but accutate.

There is probably no better bullet for your 7/08.

A number of years ago I was having trouble getting the kind of accuracy I wanted from a 7mm STW. I finally tried some 120 grain B. Tips "just to see" and found them outstandingly accurate at something approaching 3700 fps. Wondered what they would do on whitetails, so well, why not, I took the rifle with those loads deer hunting. Bottom line: The deer died, pretty much on the spot as I recall. Can't say what the bullet looked like after impact, because for all I know it is still going; at least it didn't stop inside the deer. For the record, this was a fairly average north Texas whitetail of 150 lbs or so, not a diminuative Hill Country deer 2/3rds that size.

I use 130 gr ballistic tips in my 270 Redding (270-08 improved). I've shot pigs as close as 40 yards and as far as 250 yards and the bullet performs well. I think ballistic tips are great as long as they aren't put to magnum velocities. I used BTs in my 264 WM and they were too explosive in my opinion, so I now only use BTs for moderate calibers.

I may be in the minority but I'm not a big fan of ballistic tipped bullets. I shot them one season exclusively in a remington model 7 7mm08 and with the liberal doe harvests available in Alabama, I shot 12 does that season from 10-200 yards. My experience with them is they frag and I was scooping guts on every deer. I always take a point of the shoulder shot or right behind the shoulder. After this I don't use them anymore. It kills them dead enough but every one was messy.

quote:

Originally posted by gunsrgood:
My experience with them is they frag and I was scooping guts on every deer. I always take a point of the shoulder shot or right behind the shoulder. After this I don't use them anymore. It kills them dead enough but every one was messy.

That's pretty much been my experience as well and the reason I'm going to 140gr accubonds.

quote:

270 win. 7MM-08 A 7MM-08 is a very good deer round, and with it being a short action makes it better. i have not, but i have read where elk has been taken with this round..

As far as elk, I am pretty sure a 7mm-08 will work. I have loaded up some 140gr Partitons for the previous mentioned friend's daughter. She drew a cow elk this year. Once again, if she does her part, I am sure the bullet and cartridge will do their job.

Par for the course, I could not get the Partitions to shoot tiny bug hole groups, but more than adequate to hunt with.

I won't even touch the 270 vs 7mm-08 topic. Just waste too much time and resolve absolutely nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe A.:
The 140gr. Ballistic Tips worked fine in my 7x57.

Joe A.

same thing here in Oregon...I use the same combo...2800 fps MV...

and I don't find "the mess" quoted by a few folks below..

one more time .. Nosler thinks accubonds are great HUNTING bullets .. that's why they spent MILLIONS to offer something visually, other than tip color, indentical to the BT, but BONDED ..

listen, i know most won't GET it .. every BT into game is a bullet failure .. yes, the animal died .. the bullet still failed.. and now some bubba will say "what's deader than dead" or "gimme some more bullet failure"

60% MINIMUM weight retention, 80% preferred ... anyone seen a bt leave anything heavier than 30% in one piece? and that piece being a seperated jacket ...

do what you will though

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
one more time .. Nosler thinks accubonds are great HUNTING bullets .. that's why they spent MILLIONS to offer something visually, other than tip color, indentical to the BT, but BONDED ..

listen, i know most won't GET it .. every BT into game is a bullet failure .. yes, the animal died .. the bullet still failed.. and now some bubba will say "what's deader than dead" or "gimme some more bullet failure"

60% MINIMUM weight retention, 80% preferred ... anyone seen a bt leave anything heavier than 30% in one piece? and that piece being a seperated jacket ...

do what you will though

Do you hunt much? Seriously.

For the love of Pete, a Deer is a small animal. The 120 BT in a 7mm-08 is deadly at all kinds of distances.

I couldn't give you a retained weight for any BTs that I've shot. They've all made two holes you see. Two holes BTW, not five or seven, just two, so I'd feel fairly safe saying that I've never had one not retain most of its weight.
As I stated before, I do think that at higher velocities, they are very destructive of meat. I've personally not yet seen them lack for penetration in a deer/hog sized animal. I'd just aim for behind the shoulder and avoid bone as much as possible if you are interested in meat, but I pretty well try for that scenario with any bullet, for deer anyway, hogs are a bit different.

For larger game, or more all around performance, I'd go with an accubond, or any of the other fine bullets made for larger game. For the 7mm08 and similar calibers, you'd be hard pressed to find any "decent" bullet that won't work well on deer and hog sized game.
FWIW, the military uses FMJs for "hunting", and they don't fail by your definition, but they don't work very well either. So, what would you rather have, a bullet that doesn't frag, or one that kills?

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
one more time .. Nosler thinks accubonds are great HUNTING bullets .

Do you hunt much? Seriously.

About once every 4-5 weeks,feb-september, then about once every 2 weeks after that, sometimes every 3 weeks and shot lots of pigs, exotics, and varmits ... i also shoot lots of big bores and have more occasion than most to take animals under interesting circumstances. it is my measured and studied opinion that *I* will NOT use BT bullets on game i wish to eat.

as for you, how often are you in the field, trying to improve your hunting methods?

you are certainly correct, deer are smallish animals .. even smaller in texas... and the lead flying around from failed bullets is pretty high on my list of things-not-to-feed-my-family.

quote:

Originally posted by daniel77:
FWIW, the military uses FMJs for "hunting", and they don't fail by your definition, but they don't work very well either. So, what would you rather have, a bullet that doesn't frag, or one that kills?

odd -- solids tend to work very well with well placed shots, have for, oh, centuries, in africa. Non-expanding bullets not killing MEN didn't start until the 223, as the 8x57 did a fine job of it, 110 or so years ago, and continues to do so today. The 223 is not an effective "stopping" rounds, expecially if "spray and pray" is used.

Let's see, a .510 solid, and a "trivial" 2000fps impact speed kills EVERYTHING it hits, with a well placed shot .. 6000fps in the dirt is a miss.


Daniel, how many heads of game, in the last 2 years, of YOU taken with a solid? I am probably between 4 and 6, all one shot kills

want to know how solids perform?
start here
http://forums.accuratereloadin...861098911#2861098911

and 7mm solids kill like magic .. always have, with proper shot placement

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Nelson:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
one more time .. Nosler thinks accubonds are great HUNTING bullets .

Do you hunt much? Seriously.

About once every 4-5 weeks,feb-september, then about once every 2 weeks after that, sometimes every 3 weeks and shot lots of pigs, exotics, and varmits ... i also shoot lots of big bores and have more occasion than most to take animals under interesting circumstances. it is my measured and studied opinion that *I* will NOT use BT bullets on game i wish to eat.

as for you, how often are you in the field, trying to improve your hunting methods?

you are certainly correct, deer are smallish animals .. even smaller in texas... and the lead flying around from failed bullets is pretty high on my list of things-not-to-feed-my-family.

Thank you for proving my point. You don't hunt with ballistic tips cause you don't want to eat them and I hunt sheep alone more in September and October than you hunt all year. I've killed more game with the 7mm 120 and 140 BT than probably any other single manufacturers bullet and have probably killed more than 25 head of game (no piggies or ranched exotics here) with Barnes X bullets of one form or another so I know the other end of the spectrum. I could care less what you prefer, but your assessment of the BT is a bit overweighted in ignorance.

I agree with the underpowered .223, and that is what I was referring to. "Solids" haven't been around for "centuries" unless you're talking about the soft pure lead bullets that were used, and that's really a whole nother fruit, but nice try. Still, the FMJ is the product of treaties, armor, and trying to be humane in war.
Nobody who is knowledgeable about bullets would make FMJs their first choice for hunting, any more than making a .223 their first pick elk rifle.
BTW zero big game taken with a "solid" in my entire life. Hint: That number has no misses factored in either. It's called bullet selection. Same thing the OP is asking about. I happen to believe that at 7mm08 velocities, it's hard to go wrong on bullet choice, and that is indeed one of the wonderful things about that great lil round. I'm not saying that I wouldn't take a shot at a nuisance animal, even if it were a hog in some instances, with a FMJ, but I wouldn't take it hunting on purpose for damn sure.

Nobody said that BTs are the end all for a hunting bullet, and, in fact, I did state that I didn't like them at all if pushed too fast, but if you're telling me that you think FMJs are fine for deer, and BTs aren't, you've just lost a bunch of credibility as far as I'm concerned...
Kinda like your bullet failure theory. It's all BS and opinion. Or the heavy and slow vs light and fast. Both will kill, and anyone who says that the other camp is just plain wrong is pigheaded or worse. I'd even go so far as to say that the "I want two holes" theory is pretty well banking on an ineffective shot, unless we're talking bowhunting. I'm highly accustomed to my kills being right where they were when I squeezed the trigger. I consider DRT to be a "good kill", and a running animal to be a "failure". It doesn't always work out that way, but a deer that runs 1/2 mile with two holes in it is a problem IMO.
I'll bet if there was a poll taken among hunters, most would say that the mushroom under the far hide is the "perfect" bullet performance. Here, you could go into the KE BS. Do you see how there's a contrary argument for every point out there? I'll also bet that bullet placement trumps all else as far as killing ability. For most of us, killing ability is what really matters. Put it where it should be, and most any bullet will work. Put it where it shouldn't be, and you're in trouble, no matter what bullet you used.
Oh well. No skin off me.

jeffeoso,
You are confusing emotion with physics.

I completely understand your point of view, but do not confuse what works, with what you prefer.

I am unabashedly biased towards monometal bullets, but I know the other designs will work and am not afraid to use them.

In fact I used BT's the last couple of years because that is what I had loaded. This is a very small sample, but 7 animals(deer/antelope) in the last two years, and I have not recovered a single 130gr BT out of my 270. I can't imagine the 140gr 7mm is any different.

Chuck,
you obviously have a preference, great for you. I doubt either of us are ignorant in hunting experence.


Daniel, the "for centuries" was meant for africa ... mercury hardened lead is a solid, and has been used basically since invention. I fully understand the reason militaries use FMJs .. bullet placement is 90% of it, we agree



SD - i don't agree, but i'll look back .. i don't think i've confused emotion with results .. BT's kill game DEAD, most of the time .. not arguing results, never once said that they don't work, or are bad on game, or any of those things. I state that i prefer higher weight retention of bullets, not fragments and a jacket .. Nosler themselves agrees this is a good thing

quote:

Nosler’s proprietary bonding process eliminates all possibility of component separation resulting in 60-70% weight retention.

here's the link
http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Accubond.aspx

So, my question is, WHY did nosler spend all the product developement dollars and marketing money to make a product that LOOKS nearly identical, and has to market the difference? They wanted a bonded bullet with higher weight retention -- they say it right on the product's website ..

Thanks guys, in my studied opinion, using the various different bullets, ****I will not shoot animals I intend to EAT with a BT****

Chuck,
I mean this as a question, and not to be rude -- In your 10-14 day sheep hunting trips, How many shots at Sheep do you take? I ask to clarify something in my mind, as on a pig hunting trip, i generally see quite a few hogs, and shoot 2 or 3. My lease is 4400 acres of pine tree farm .. no ranch raised anything there, and pigs are a huge nusance in Texas. Weights from nil (20-30# "footballs"_ to huge.. over 300 is my best .. here's a pic of the big one


when put on a 300# game scale, he bottomed it out


here's another, little over 150, taken with a 416


we tend to shoot a bunch at a time ..
here's 4 i took one morning ... the 2 hanging (not in picture) where taken by a hunting buddy ... these were on a 12,000 acre farm, nusance pigs



while i may not spend as much IN the field as you do.. and bless you for being able to, i do shoot a good deal of game

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by gunsrgood:
My experience with them is they frag and I was scooping guts on every deer. I always take a point of the shoulder shot or right behind the shoulder. After this I don't use them anymore. It kills them dead enough but every one was messy.

That's pretty much been my experience as well and the reason I'm going to 140gr accubonds.

I don't recommend the Ballistic Tip to folks who intend to use it to put down livestock for purposes of slaughter. However, if you are HUNTING wild animals, the primary purpose of your weapon is to inflict sufficient trauma to reduce the wild animal to your possession (translation: kill it). The design of the Ballistic Tip makes it very effective for HUNTING purposes when the quarry is in the 100-250 lb range. Most people assume that the rapid expansiveness of the Ballistic Tip's front section make it a poor penetrator. Not so. The solid base of jacket material supports the rear portion so that the bullet actually penetrates deeper than most conventional cup-and-core bullets. And if a Ballistic Tip (or any other bullet) only makes it to the muscel of the animal's off side, so what? It's already done its damage to the internal organs. No deer ever died from a half-inch hole in its ribcage.

When the heart and lungs look like they have been put through a Cuisinart and the game is dead virtually in its tracks, I'm not particularly concerned about a bit of bloodshot on the offside ribcage. If you are fond of shooting your game in the rear quarters or the backstrap, then choose any bullet you wish; I'm unable to help you at that point.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Chuck,
I mean this as a question, and not to be rude -- In your 10-14 day sheep hunting trips, How many shots at Sheep do you take? I ask to clarify something in my mind, as on a pig hunting trip, i generally see quite a few hogs, and shoot 2 or 3. My lease is 4400 acres of pine tree farm .. no ranch raised anything there, and pigs are a huge nusance in Texas. Weights from nil (20-30# "footballs"_ to huge.. over 300 is my best .. here's a pic of the big one


when put on a 300# game scale, he bottomed it out


here's another, little over 150, taken with a 416


we tend to shoot a bunch at a time ..
here's 4 i took one morning ... the 2 hanging (not in picture) where taken by a hunting buddy ... these were on a 12,000 acre farm, nusance pigs



while i may not spend as much IN the field as you do.. and bless you for being able to, i do shoot a good deal of game

At 33 I've killed, very conservatively, over 75 head of fair chase big game. I also never said anywhere that I prefer the BT, but I've enough experience with it to know it works.

Silly me, and I thought they were just chasing Swift bullets with the whole bonded bullet craze.

I used some Hornady Interbonds when they first came out. I could not tell the difference vs the Interlocks. Therefore I saw no need to try any more of the bonded bullets. Just not that big of a performance difference IMO.

To truly step up in performance, I prefer a monometal bullet.

The late Allen Day took Accubonds (Accubombs as he stated) to Africa and said he would not use them again. I think he liked NP's, SAF's & Northforks?

FWIW, I used 140 NBTs exclusively in my two 7-08 Kimber 84Ms. I used them to successfully take deer and antelope from 50-400 yards. However, the older NBTs have a tendency to fragment where impact velocity approach 3000 fps, but the end result was dead critter without much meat loss.

I hunted with BT's for years with the impression when i cut open my animal and his internal organs was liquid it was doing its job.

WELL once you bit into a 25 grain chunk of copper jacket you start thinking about your bullet choice. So I started researching something that would not break up at much...

I eventually came across the Federal trophy bonded tips....Well, it held its weight retention so well after the pass thru that I weighed the bullet and it started at 165gr and after the shot and a perfect mushroom it wegihed 147gr. I will stick with bonded bullet till the day I die for hunting animals I plan on eating. I have yet to use the Accubond on animals but i will report once hunting season arrives...

BTW, for my 500AR the Hornady 570gr Solids are going to be used and also the 570gr expanding.

Lots to think about in this thread. I also have some NPs, and Sierra 140's to run along with the NBTs and will see which the rifle likes. Most of my experience has been with cupand core bullets which work great on deer, but so far haven't shot that well from this 7/08.

I've only lost two deer in 61 years of hunting them. Both time I was shooting a rifle chambered to the 7x57. The first time I was shooting 175 gr. round nose Fwderal brand ammo. About all you could find way back then was Federal, Winchester and rarely Remington 175 gr. loads. My preference was for the Winchester, but the local hardware store in the small Nevada town only had the Federals. My wife and I looked for that der until sunset and I'd shot it about 8 AM.
Years later, a different rifle and handloads with the early Nosler BT's in the 100 count box at 2800 FPS, I shot a nice Arizona Desert Mule Deer. I heard that bullet hit with a loud crack as it hit bone and the deer turned downhill into a gully. As I headed up the hill to get to where the deer disappeared, some loose rock rolled and my right knee gave out. My ex-son- in-law and his son looked for that deer for several hours but they found little blood on the ground and that deer was lost. Did that bullet fail by only making a superficial wound or was it just damned bad luck we could not recover it? I dunno. All I do know is I don't think I'll use those bullets on game again. I don't trust them, and from what I've been seeing here on this thread, maybe that mistrust is justified.
They sure are accurate though. They make that Winchester M70 Featherweight act like a target rifle.
Paul B.