I'm still wading through the Gun Rags my buddy sent and found another article which caught me by surprise. The Hack was talking about using a Scope with "both eyes open".

Perhaps I need to read it again, but I got the impression this began with our current Military using a small ACOG(?) Red Dot Sight while kicking doors open in Iraq. And apparently they have gone from 1x Red Dots to something like 3x or 4x and still use Both Eyes Open.

Then someone decided it would be the best way to use a regular scope. And the Hack said it took about an hour of "training" for him to use a regular scope the same way. And he got into the Master Eye, Focus Shifting, Eye Switching, etc. explainations, as if that made it clear.

I've NEVER tried this with a Scope. Does shooting with both eyes open while using a scope make any sense at all to anyone? If so, fill me in.

Hot Core
I think some people are more adapatable to this than others depending on how strong your right or left eye dominance is.
I close my left eye when shooting a scope, however I find myself throwing the rifle up and tracking game in (jumpshot situations) with both open and then closing the left eye just before the shot, not practiced it just happpens that way.
I think it would be difficult and impractical to try to use a scope with both eyes open for the type of shooting and hunting I do.
You never know what you'll read in those magazines!

quote:

using a Scope with "both eyes open".

I do all the time.....I'm not sure why....but I have always done it this way.....my right eye is strongly dominant and I'm right handed if this makes a difference!

quote:

I got the impression this began with our current Military using a small ACOG(?) Red Dot Sight

Not really. It has always been common practice, at least since the 1940's, for best accuracy in match shooting.

It has to do with eye fatigue when shooting for long periods. Works too. Even with scopes. Just ignore what the off eye sees.

I have been shooting this way since I can remember, it just come natural for me.

Craven

I can't do it. But I am really odd being right eye dominant and left handed and left footed. I shoot right handed to use my 'good eye' and to be able to find guns that fit much easier.

Sometimes I close the off eye, and other times I don't..
How's that for an evasive reply?

I think the eye fatigue explanation probably makes most sense. When I shot IHMSA matches with pistols I put tape on my glasses to block my non-shooting eye and it really helped as far as eye strain was concerned. But I can't shoot a scope that way and since when do your eyes get fatigued when hunting?

Both eyes open - yes. Regardless of the sight you can do this - iron's, dots, holo's, scopes.

If you've got a red-dot scope on a handgun, try this some time: cover up the exit of the scope with a piece of masking tape or something.

The amazing thing is the way the human brain interprets things. Assuming you're right handed, what happens is that you can still see the dot, but can't see it interposed on top of the target. Your LEFT eye and your brain can make the interpretation automatically and you can still hit the target. Maybe not a 1" group, but 3-4" groups are quite doable.

This is just one of the reasons why the red-dots are so much faster in competitions: the mind uses both eyes to get on target, even if only one "eye" is working right.

It's neat stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Sometimes I close the off eye, and other times I don't..
How's that for an evasive reply?

+1 on this one!

quote:

Not really. It has always been common practice, at least since the 1940's, for best accuracy in match shooting.

It has to do with eye fatigue when shooting for long periods. Works too. Even with scopes. Just ignore what the off eye sees.

Squinting the non-dominant eye while shooting does increase eye fatique. Many competitive shooters place a piece of opaque Scotch tape over the non-dominant eyeglass lense to block out vision of that eye while those that can simply block it out mentally.

In certain hunting situations, both eyes open speeds up target acquisition as well.

Learned to shoot iron sights w/both eyes open and transition to scopes was just natural for me.

Regards,
hm

What JIM C said,Good Luck

Yes, IMO, you should shoot at game with both eyes open. Read "The Hunting Rfile" by the late Jack O'Conner. He wrote about this very subject in one of the chapters. With game at a 100 to 200 yard range, you can actually see them hit or missed, with your other eye. Not always, if there is too much recoil, but usually. The trick is to keep both eyes open. I think one has a natural tendency to close one eye. I know I do naturally and have to make an effort to keep them both open.

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
...If you've got a red-dot scope on a handgun, ...

Must admit I've shot a Ruger 22Mark(something) with a Red Dot and both eyes open at an indoor Range - because the guy who owned it was telling me how he used it. I also shot a buddy's 357Mag S&W that had a Red Dot on it and remembered what the first guy had said. I must not have done real well, cause I don't remember the Groups at all.

I sure appreciate all you folks filling me in about this "Eyes Open with a Scope". I was reluctant to believe the Hack, but have no trouble at all believing you all.

Is there an Upper Limit on the Power you all do this with? And feel free to provide all the details you want about the distances you do this, all or only some Cartridges, anything that you feel is important that you have experienced.
-----

Lots of folks I watch at the Range tend to shoot with both eyes "Closed"!

quote:

Is there an Upper Limit on the Power you all do this with?

I shoot varmints with (up to) 24X and keep both eyes open.....

I have done it up to 14x with no problems. Scopes and irons, no problems. Sometimes one eye open, sometimes two.

Last night, I noticed I was shooting trap with sometimes one, sometimes two. (By score, you would guess I had both eyes closed.) I was hitting more with one eye closed. Now I'm thinking I should train myself to shoot trap with both eyes. Seems I would see the bird better with both eyes.

i shoot with both eyes open, have it that way all my life. nearly 35 yrs of competitive archery has so trained my aiming that i don't even think about.
in truth, scopes were originally designed to be used with both eyes open. if you look into early scopes,there weren't many over 4 power for that reason. as they got more magnification, the trend to close the "off" eye started. done right, the method "superposes" the magnified picture from your dominant eye over the other eye's vision signal and you actually see the larger picure with both eyes at your brain when you get used to it.
if you have trouble "blanking-out" as it's called in archery, just blink your "off" eye and the dominant eye's picture will return. after a while of training your subconcious to see this way it will become natural and the blanking out will go away entirely.

I shoot both ways depending on the situation. Whether its archery, rifle, or shotgun. I never thought about it before until someone asked. I may not sleep much tonite wondering if I breathe in or out when I shoot. I shouldnt have read this. I need a pill.

Henry Hoover thats some funny stuff right there!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I'm still wading through the Gun Rags my buddy sent and found another article which caught me by surprise. The Hack was talking about using a Scope with "both eyes open".

I've NEVER tried this with a Scope. Does shooting with both eyes open while using a scope make any sense at all to anyone? If so, fill me in.

Makes perfect sense to me since that is how I do it. I find that there is less strain on my eyes doing it this way. I shoot every firearm I own scoped or not this way.

Another reason I do this is I'm right eye dominate but lack the muscle control to close my left eye to shoot. However I don't have that problem with my right eye and I can fire a rifle almost equally well with my left hand. Everyone taught me to shoot left handed since I had this little problem, it wasn't until I got in the Army in 92 that I learned to do things different.

Both eyes open whether iron or scope, regardless of power. I was a "one eye" guy until my hunting mentor mentioned that my "scope blindness" on game was due to my use of my one eye through the scope exclusively to "find" the game/target. On one fine mulie buck my mentor decided I needed to either change my "sighting style" or take up a new hobby With my newbie one eyed 8X look at the terrain I wasn't able to find the deer much less get off a shot. I have learned much since.

My mentor, who was brought up as his dads shooter in American Field upland game trials and has hunted big game all his life is a very good game shot. He always uses both eyes open and with a scoped rifle uses his "off eye" to gather information using it to put the reticle on target. For instance we are on horse back and bump a buck. One dismounts, grabs his rifle, chambers a round and gets to a clear shooting position. Finding the buck/bull is tough when one is looking through the scope "one eyed". If you are using both eyes you get a much bigger "picture" and may aquire the game and have a go at it. For me, training to keep both eyes open has alowed me to get a better shot at game and see the shot. When varminting with my Lott at groung squirrels I can see the results (nice!) while keeping both eyes open.

When shooting "one eyed" you are restricting your sight picture and may cost you your game IMO. I know shooting "two eyed" has helped me a lot, in the varmint field and with big game...especially with higher power scopes. YMMV.


John

Sometimes looking at some of my groups, you might think I shoot with both eyes shut.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Sometimes looking at some of my groups, you might think I shoot with both eyes shut.

I have had those days myself!

I shoot pistol both eyes open.

I shoot rifles in competition with both eyes open with non-aiming eye patched with an opaque blinder which lets in light for balanced pupils but blocks vision in that eye. Scope or irons.

I shoot with non-aiming eye shut while hunting with a rifle except:

When in very heavy cover, after wounded game, at very close range when the scope is more of a hindrance than an aid, look through the scope (which is terribly blurry anyhow in this situation) and ignore what I see through the scope and if I am able to see the animal with my non-aiming eye I will then shoot. NOTE: I was taught this by a hunter with lots of African experience after informing him of trouble I had in heavy laurel and tried to aim along the side of the barrel when pursueing a wounded black bear with about 6 ft visibility and many times being within 5 and 10 yards of the bear. I have practiced this on paper and have also added TruGlo sights and QR rings/bases to my bear guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Sometimes looking at some of my groups, you might think I shoot with both eyes shut.

I have had those days myself!

Haven't we all?

quote:

Then someone decided it would be the best way to use a regular scope. And the Hack said it took about an hour of "training" for him to use a regular scope the same way.

Using a scope with both eyes open has always been the fastest way to acquire the target. Once acquired, the off eye can be closed if desired. But starting out with one eye closed as the gun is raised makes it slower to pick up the target. The higher the magnification of the scope, the worse this effect can be.

Back in the late '50 and early '60 when I was learning to shoot and hunt a wise O' Man told me that if I kept both eyes open I would not miss so much, could get on or get back on target faster, and could see the hit or the game fall.

So, when I'm hunting it's both eye open.

I always shoot my scoped rifles with both eyes open!

I'm really shocked shooting with both eyes open is a new concept to any experienced shooters. If you haven't tried it, do so. You'll be doing yourself a big favor.

Both eyes open

After thinking about this a little more I realize the only thing I dont shoot with both eyes open is an open sighted rifle. I cant for the life of me shoot a fine bead, half bead, or full bead with my left eye open.(tried for ten minutes) I would be better off wrapping the rifle around a tree, throwing it like a boomerang and watch for it to come back. Im gonna miss either way.

I believe that there are lots of complex things that go on in our brains when we close one eye. Now, this isn't my field so those with an interest would need to do further research and confirm my thoughts. Perhaps someone working in the field will comment?

However, when you close one eye the image will usually seem less bright to the brain and so it tends to open the remaining pupil somewhat. This can lead to a reduction in resolution/definition/performance of the open eye. I believe it is for this reason that target shooters keep both eyes open but block the non-shooting eye with frosted glass as that way it is still getting light and so you don't get a reduction in performance of the shooting eye.

So, I think that this situation is more complex than might at first appear. It might be argued that in low light closing one eye and so forcing the pupil of the other eye to open further would be an advantage but my understanding is that the brain never sees a one-eyed image as brightly as a 2-eyed image even when the shooting eye is wide open.

I might be wrong on all of this and so would be keen to hear from someone with expertise. For what it's worth I often keep both open but sometimes I close one and I've no explaination for why. I use an 8 times magnification scope usually but this doesn't seem to matter or be a factor.

Hullo HC,

Yes, it makes sense addressing a charge. I can shoot both eyes open to 4x. But, my DGR's have no more tha 2.5x bottom end.

Shooting with both eyes open is pretty common.

Shooting with both eyes closed requires some serious talent.

There's no question it is better to shoot with both eyes open, but quite a few shooters (I've read numbers of about 20%) are like me and shoot on one side and have a dominant eye on the other side. True, it might have been better to "switch" me when I first started shooting a .22 at age 4 but people didn't really know about such things then and closing the off eye was common practice in E Texas, at least.

People who don't have a strong dominant eye on the other side don't understand the problem. It is impossible to shoot a shotgun with any degree of accomplishment with it mounted on the opposite side of the dominant eye, unless the dominant eye is closed or blocked off somehow. All you see is the side of the barrel and kind of a double vision. I managed to make AA-27-AA in trap before they had triple A and I quit shooting competitively, won a couple of state doubles championships but there is no question that closing the off eye handicaps you in certain shooting situations, boxed pigeons comes immediately to mind. It is a bit easier to work around the problem with a scope but since I closed the eye for shotgunning, I just kept doing it for rifle work.

I will be odd man out here, but I shoot everything, rifle-scoped or iron sights, pistol, shotgun, bow with one eye closed.

As I bring whatever it is I am using up to get ready to shoot, I have both eyes open, but as the gun reaches my shoulder/reaches full extension of my arms with pistol/begin my draw with my bow, I automatically close my left eye.

I was gifted with an extremely good set of eyes, and with both eyes open, I have too large a field or vision and can not concentrate on one central point in that field.

My wife, is right hand, simply because she was trained to be that way.

She should have been left handed, but during the 60's when she was a kid, her parents forced her to do things right handed.

She has managed to get by that way, till we married and I started taking her hunting.

We found out early on, that even though she is "Right Handed", she is Left Eye Dominant, so she shoots a right handed rifle, left handed.

She has taught herself how to reload rather quickly, and refuses my offer to buy her a left handed rifle, even though she finally did get to handle a couple of left handed guns at this past DSC show.

She is one of those folks that shoots a gun scope/no scope with both eyes open.

It freaked me out a little the first couple of times I saw her do it.

The few times I tried it, I lost sight of the game and focused on the scope, not thru it, but on it.

I am going to expand my answer a bit.

Actually while hunting, I acquire the target with both eyes open, and then slowly raise the gun to my shoulder and place the scope in front of my shooting eye, and keep both eyes open, and drop and raise the gun until I find the quarry in the scope, then I close my non-aiming eye and shoot.

Both eyes open when shooting is the best option if you can do it. Some people simply can't; whether they get double vision, or as others have posted because they are cross-dominant. I am cross-dominant but shoot with my dominant eye which negates the cross dominance in my case. Specifically, I am left handed but right eye dominant. I shoot right handed. It works for me as there are far more right handed guns available than left.

The body is a complex thing. The brain will compensate for a closed eye. My post addressed the opaque blinder for allowing in light. This is not a rumour or my opinion. I am a Certified Advanced International Rifle Coach and attended many training seminars at Camp Perry and the US Olympic Training Center.

Another important issue is erect head position and looking straight out of your eye sockets. Again the brain will compensate. If you have your head tilted left or right instead of erect, your brain will kick in the old counter-balance to upright you, and induce sway into your shooting position.

quote:

Originally posted by craven:
I have been shooting this way since I can remember, it just come natural for me.

Craven

Yup, same here.

I'm with Crazyhorseconsulting on this one. I too, was gifted with an extremely good set of eyes and I too, cannot concentrate on one central point in my field of vision with both eyes open. I too, shoot everything - rifle, scoped or iron sight, pistol or shotgun with one eye closed. I too bring my rifle into my target field then close one eye to aim. I have no problem aquiring the target in my sights. I was quite astonished to learn that other folks shoot with both eyes open! For me it's a case of no need to fix it since it aint broke!

I always shoot my rifles with my left eye closed
because I always use a scope and with the scope set at a higher power then I could see with out it. So shooting with both eyes open would do me no good.

Every rifle or shotgun should be fired with both eyes open, even when using a scope.

A friend of mine taught the long range class at our gun club and was a military sniper. He stressed the importance of both eyes open when firing a scoped rifle.

Thinking about it, a shotgun gets fired quickly and without actually aiming - I did in fact shoot it with both eyes open! I did also 'aim' it from time to time - that was with one eye closed.

How does one get aroung the tendency for the one eye to see the target while the other eye sees the cross-hair? That's what I do when I try it. But do I need to change? I don't have a problem aquiring my target nor seeing clearly through my scope. I do tend to have 'tunnel vision' but that seems to be due to concentration.