I've never owned a fast 300 of any flavor but would like to hear opinions. Some say their flatter trajectory is the main benefit, but once hit, game doesn't know the difference between being hit with a 300 or an '06. Others swear the extra velocity is telling. I'd be interested in experiences and opinions. Please be repectful with each other.

I had a brief fling with a 300 Winchester magnum. I used it on 4 elk and several mule deer. Well it shot pretty darn flat and killed quick. On the other side of the scale, it kicked a bit more than I like to deal with in field position shooting and it was preety darn destructive of meat. It was also a bit longer than I like to carry around or get in and out of trucks with. It was also loud and a bit heavy. I went back to my 30-06 happily.

I have a long throated 26 inch barreled 3oo and for me it's easier to hit with. Where I live and hunt the area is very open and usually windy so that added velocity just makes it easier. If you use 180 grain Partitions it's not so distructive on the meat and to tame the recoil get a good pad.
I for sure did not mean to say in any way however that the 30/06 will not do the job. Both of this caliber rifles are first class.
Regards, Keith

I think that if it is "for you" or not depends on the usual distance you take your game at.

If it is from a high seat or stand at under seventy-five yards then I can't see what advantage any fast 300 would give you over any 30-06 or 308 or, even at seventy-five yards 30-30!

In fact for game from a stand at under seventy five yards not only is 30-30 probably all you need but I think the carcase will be less shot up!

But if you wanting a "dual purpose" rifle then I would consider a fast 300 but that can be loaded down (like the Remington "Lite" Loads) for short range OR loaded to full throttle for two hundred and fifty yard shots or bear with a heavyweight bullet.

The fast 300 cartridges give not only potential velocity advantage but in a standard velocity the ability to "go up a calibre" by using say 220 or even 250 grain weight bullets but yet without the lowering of velocity if you used that weight in a 30-06 or worse 308.

If the above last paragraph isn't what you need for your shooting then maybe the loss of one round in the magazine and the extra powder plus the cost of fast 300 versus 30-06 components rules it out.

For shooting at long range where you can't exactly be certain if the distance is three hundred or three hundred and fifty yards then it does have an advantage as it keeps the "point blank" or distance where the bullet is more than 3" above or below your zero point much longer.

I own two of them The 300 Win. Mag. and the 300 RUM It goes a little faster then the Win Mag.
Well I guess I must really like the 300's. I weight about 185.

With heavier bullets go with the 300 Mag....same goes for a 7 Mag. They out-perform their smaller brothers with bigger bullets but with lighter weight bullets they tend to be hard on two things....meat and bullet construction.

As far as flat? Sure they can shoot flatter than the smaller stuff...
I am shooting my 7 Mag this very day with 139 grn Horn. Interbonds at 3215 fps. This is a load I am working on for this falls Antelope hunt.

Out to 350yds, not much diff in trajectory, but the 300wm can carry a lot more horsepower w/ heavier bullets. IMO, that is where all magnums shine, being able to push heavier bullets faster than non magnums.

quote:

As far as flat? Sure they can shoot flatter than the smaller stuff...
I am shooting my 7 Mag this very day with 139 grn Horn. Interbonds at 3215 fps. This is a load I am working on for this falls Antelope hunt.

Using this as an example, my 280 will push the same bullet @ 3000fps. The diff @ 400yds w/ a 250yd zero is -2". That is not going to make or break the shot. Switching to 160gr bullets, the 7rm is still over 3000fps while my 280 can barely make 2800fps. Again, not much diff to 400yds in drop, but it is carrying a bit more thump at all ranges than the 280.
I don't own a 30mag, but have a 7mmDakota. It has never seen a bullet lighter than 154gr for the rasons already outlined. It's at it's best pushing 160gr-175gr bullets fast. If I want light & fast, I go 280. If I were substituting 30cal, I would make the same decsion; 06 for bullets to 165gr & 300wm for 180-200gr bullets.

The -06 will kill fine out to 250-300 yards. After that, the big magnums like the RUM will simplify hold over and retain more energy stretching your range to 450 yards or more. The disadvantage of the mags is usually a heavier rifle with longer barrel, the possibility of more meat spoilage at the closer ranges because of that high velocity and muzzle blast. You can load them down but you still have a longer heavier rifle. I have a 300 RUM but I don't shoot it for fun.

The original purpose of the magnums was to launch a heavier bullet at the same velocity of the lesser cartridges.
With that in mind, I have never fired any bullet lighter than 200grs thru mine. Taking a light for calibre bullet and seeing if I can melt the jacket off it isn't my cup of tea and IMO serves little purpose except to do all this meat damage that non magnum shooters like to chortly about. 200gr Grand Slam or NP @ 2900+ fps will get the job done without all of this meat damage I read about.
I don't shoot long range so I can't address that but I have never felt challenged by the 2 extra inches of barrel nor the extra pound of weight.

Both or neither, depending on who pulls the trigger.

I have shot deer and igs with a 30/30, a 308, 300Weatherby, and a 300 Win Mag.

With similar bullet placement;

Every deer and pig shot with the 30/30, has beeen able to run after the shot.

Several of the deer and pigs hit with the 308 have been DRT.

Most, but not all of the deer and igs shot with one of the 300 Magnums have been DRT.

So I do think that velocity does play a role in "killing" power.

However, I usually only use the 300 Mag when its trajectory might be needed for a longer range shot, along with its higher velocity at longer range.

I appreciate all the responces. And nobody got mean spirited!

Yeah I was waiting for that too.

all of the 300 mags are nice rounds .. from the 300HH to the 30-378 .. i have a nice springfield in 300 win that shots better, with the 30-06 barrel, than it did as a 30-06

i have a different concept .. 180s at 300fps, with mildish pressure and recoil ...

if a .308 180 won't kill a deer or a pig, well, you just plain MISSED

quote:

300 mag velocity a killing tool or aid to long range?

IMO the only real advantage of the magnums over the traditional standards is a bit of extended range.

Seems like when I shoot a deer behind the shoulder with my Contender pistol in 30-30 the deer just runs a semi-circle about 20yds and falls over. Shoot em with the 300 RUM same place and they run wide open till they pile up. Sometimes close to 100yds. I still like my RUM for the longer ranges I encounter.

If you are never going to be shooting past 300yds I would be just as happy with my old 308.

To answer the question it IS an extended range killing tool.

God Bless, Louis

They will all kill, but there is a place for the .300 mags IMHO. I have a .300 Wthby mag that was my Dad's ( Ruger 1). He killed an elk at 450yds, and the following year, his guide finished an elk at 500yds. I think that's where they shine. More energy way down range. I can't imagine having confidence in anything smaller at that range.

Charlie Sisk reportedly said that inside 300 yards, there was no difference between the .308 and .300 Bee. I tend to agree. Velocity gets you range, not killing effect.

I shot an Eland with my 300 win mag last year, one of my friends shot one with a 30-06.
Both Eland got killed just as dead..
Only difference is I was alot more confident, and even at 300yds I'll still take the shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
Both or neither, depending on who pulls the trigger.

The above sums it up.

The extra Power is devistating up close when the proper Bullet is selected. And at l-o-n-g distance, all the 300Mags step away from the lesser Cartridges.

If you can see a difference between a G-Hog(any Varmint) Killed with a 22LR and a 22-250, it should be easy to understand how more Power with a proper Bullet makes a HUGE difference.

And if you prefer a Heavier Bullet for tough or mean Game, the various 300Mags simply allow you to send them Faster.

Today, with a proper stock, current generation Recoil Pad and a bit of practice, the various 300Mags felt recoil is less than the old rag pre-64 M70 Holy Grail 30-06s with the poorly shaped stocks and phenolic or metal butt plates.

300Mags = outstanding Game rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i have a nice springfield in 300 win that shots better, with the 30-06 barrel, than it did as a 30-06

I am a bit confused by this statement.....

I also had a fling with the 300 Win Mag. Out to my self set max range on deer and elk it offered no improvement over my '06 (I use 24" barrels with 180 or preferred 190 gr bullets). I found sporter weight 300 mags was generally not quite as accurate as the '06 and certainly beats you up a lot more. Practice with the '06 is much more pleasant so one does more of it. As to "flatness of trajectory" out to 300 yards there's not enough difference to get excited about. I use a range finder and adjust the zero for longer shots so the flatter shooting mag makes little difference in that application. I found, at my self imposed max range of 500 yards, that with the '06 I could, under reasonable shooting conditions, always keep the bullet in the heart lung area of a mule deer. I could not do that with a sporter weight 300 mag.

I went back to the '06 for most all of my big game hunting of deer and elk.

Larry Gibson

I switched to a .300WM from a .280 because they "hit" harder and come in a wider variety of bullet types. I could use a .30-06 and do nearly as well, but the .300WM, again, seems to hit harder.

I recently sold several guns in an effort to bring myself to one rifle for the majority of my big game hunting. I settled on the 300 Win Mag after debating between 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, and 300 Win. I have owned and hunted with the 30-06 and 7 Rem mag quite a bit and did not find them lacking. I also hunted quite a bit with a 300 Wby which is another good choice. I settled on the 300 Win because I like the idea of having one gun set up to hunt whatever I go after, and as such have a great deal of comfort with it as well as confindence. I built mine with a 24 inch barrel because 26 in tubes are a little cumbersome to me, the gun has a heavy barrel as well as custom stock and pad, thanks to Lex Webernick at Rifles Inc, so recoil is not too bad. To date I have tried 8 loads in it and all of them shot one inch or better with 3 shots at 100 yards, and will put accubonds in at 1/2 inch. I have only used 180's but plan to play with some 200 as well, I don't see the need to go with lighter bullets in this type of gun. I could have easily choosen a smaller caliber and I am sure it would have been just fine, I like the magnum for a combination of power and trajectory with heavy bullets. I rarely hunt for meat so damage is not a issue, if I do a behind the should lung shot does not mess things up too bad.

quote:

If you can see a difference between a G-Hog(any Varmint) Killed with a 22LR and a 22-250, it should be easy to understand how more Power with a proper Bullet makes a HUGE difference.

There is a heck of a lot more difference between a 22LR and a 22-250 than there is between a 30-06 and a 300 win

What is interesting in the .300WM area is the recent move by the US Army to move on with the rechambering of the M24 from 308 to 300WM in 2009. Apparently this was a talked about change for about the last 10 years but now seems to be starting to come about.

I always thought that the 300WM was an inherent accurate cartridge. It's not always a favorite of the handloaders due to the short neck but that seems to be a easy work around.

I do like its accuracy and when coupled with a high velocity load that is taylored for your particular shooter, you have a winner. It can be very effective at the longer distances and I like it with the 180 grainers at those long distances. Velocity can reach up to 3050-3100 fps safely in most rifles and the payload it delivers downrange can make for some spectacular kills. It's my go to long distance shooter.

I think the 300 mags really shine with 200 grain bullets.

The High Energy 30/06 loads chronograph at 2800fps from my 22" bbl Winchester M-70.

The 300 mags will start the 200 grain bullets at 2800 to 2900fps. In my opinion, a 200 grain bullet will kill any thin skinned animal from just about any angle.

Both!!! I've used 30-30, 308, 30-06 and like them all but when I got my 300 WM I could really tell the difference. The extra range was impressive and the hitting power was great. I have never had a problem with the recoil but that's me. As alway I say use what you like that's what I'm doing.

In 30 caliber heavy for caliber starts at 200 grains. I'm workong on a 30-06 project that will shoot 200s and 220s exclusively.

I like both the extra penetration and range of the 300 Win. Hands down no discussion betweem the two.

But I am biased and think the 30-06 is absolutely useless for my hunting puropses. I don't believe in compromise and would rather use a rifle appropriate for it's intended game. The 30-06 is a tweener, and while woopie it is a jack of all trades, it is at the expense of being the master of none. Besides I'd rather have more guns than just one.

The 130gr .270 Win is the ideal deer cartridge. The .300 Win is better for elk as it allows better penetration and range over the 30-06 given same bullet weights. I know and have heard all the rants about how many billions of elk have been killed by the 30-06. Fine, great, just not for me. Still just worthless. The same holds true of the 7mm Rem, a fun cartridge to shoot, even less well suited for elk and not any better for deer. Bottom line is the 270/300 are better suited for the respective game. (I regret having used a Pre War mod 70 action and a nice piece of wood to have built a 7mm Rem as it'll never be hunted with.)

As far as recoil is concerned, never felt it in the field, my 270 feels the same as my 340 Wby when shooting at game.

Again, this is for me. Some people subscribe to (or can only afford, etc) the one gun philosophy and recoil does matter. But even in this case I would take the 300 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

300 mag velocity a killing tool or aid to long range?

IMO the only real advantage of the magnums over the traditional standards is a bit of extended range.

Killed a few deer with a 30 30 swithched to a 300 ultra because a friend said everything he ever shot dropped like 14 in a row.The first deer i shoot with it was through very thick brush at 50 yds.It ran about 30 yards before it fell,and I was confused.When i looked at the deer I had only nicked its sternum,only taking a little hair off.Its heart and lungs where mush.A 30 30 30 06 or even a 600ne wouldn t have done the job.Velocity baby kills,period.That was the last time i fired into brush that thick and the only deer that didn t drop like hit by lightning.

quote:

.Velocity baby kills,period

Several years ago, a study was conducted using data from many, many, deer at the Cedar Knoll Hunt Club in South Carolina. It was a peer-reviewed professional study, with enough data to be statistically significant. IIRC, one of the conclusions was that velocity was NOT a determining factor in how far the deer travelled after being shot.

When I worked at a gun store in Tucson 20 years ago, I met a man, a doctor of some sort, who was well known in the store. He was a popular fellow and a successful hunter in many states and in Africa.

His only rifle was a custom 300 Win Mag. The only thing I knew about the rifle was that wore a Hart barrel, which was the first time I had ever heard of a custom rifle or bbl.

He used one bullet for everything: a 150 Nosler partition. He stated that he like that bullet weight for its trajectory, that it killed everything he shot with it, and he never found a difference on elk with that bullet or the recommended 180.

He showed me a few pics of his trophy room and he had at least 11 or 12 bull elk mounted among many other game heads, including a bison.

I was taught that the 180 was a better choice and told him that this is what I was hearing from other more experienced hunters at the store (I was and still am primarily a bowhunter, so I was in the infancy of my rifle/bullet learning curve).

He looked at me, then showed me more pics from his album he brought in, and said, "tell that to these guys."

Whether or not a 30.06 would have done just as well in his hunts is anyones best guess. I'm just relating to you his story and his "one gun, one bullet for all" position.

After taking lots of hogs (well into 3 figures) and a good bit of other game with mild-mannered cartridges such as the 6.5x30-30 AI, 6.5 JDJ, 7mm Bullberry, 6.5x55, 7mm BR, 7mm-08 and .308 WCF, I am here to tell you that proper bullet selection and precise shot placement are what puts game down quickly and efficiently.

The big magnums may add range, but they are of no benefit to me as I rarely shoot beyond 300 yards and do so only under absolutely perfect conditions, which are rare in the field. And, if the truth be known, there's only one degree of dead...

Over the years, this is what I have experienced: A 25-06 AI was no more effective than the little .250 Savage and .257 JDJ. A 6.5-06 rifle killed no quicker than a 6.5 JDJ
in a 14" Contender barrel. A 7mm Rem Mag was no more spectacular than an XP in 7BR. And a 30-06 did no better than a 10" .30 Herrett. As long as I did my part and put a proper bullet into the prescribed spot, the game died, pure and simple.

The bullets/ velocity ranges which has shown to put game down the quickest for me has been a 140 grain 6.5 at 2400-2700 fps MV and a 30 caliber, 150 grain Ballistic Tip at 2600-2780 fps MV. Inside of 300 yards, these work exceptionally well for me, and game usually drops in its tracks. In fact, the largest hog I have ever taken dropped in its tracks to a single 140 grain Hornady SP from a 6.5x55 at 252 yards. My best whitetail was taken with a .308 WCF at 165 yards and dropped immediately, even though no bones larger than a rib were impacted.

For years, the .308 WCF was my "big gun," but at the present I no longer shoot that caliber. But I did recently movc up to another "big" .30. It's the 30-30 Ackley Improved in a 24" Contender barrel...

One thing I meant to mention in my previous reply is that I've noticed a growing trend towards ultra-premium bullets for use on smaller big game such as deer and pronghorn. Yes, these bullets will kill this type of game, but more times than not, they are actually LESS effective than a plain Jane cup-and-core bullet at moderate velocity.

Some may argue that a once-in-a-life chance at a buck running all-out in the brush at a couple hundred yards would spell failure for a conventional bullet, and they are undoubtedly correct.

But it would not matter to me as that's a shot I would not take no matter what cartridge or bullet sat in my chamber.

I look at the 300 WM as a sort of tweener. I use my STW for southern Deer hunting and when I go north its 338 or bigger. I have however over the years shot Deer with many catriges and a lot with the 300s both Wm and WBY. If anyone says there's no difference in the way they kill form standard rounds they need to shoot a few more animals. They're way overkill on Deer but contrary to what some have said I've seen very little movement after a hit other than some twitching possibly. I normally shot 200 Noslers in my 300 Mags. Still have one but it never gets out.

Have 2 300 Roys and swear by them. I've killed cleanly with '06 too. I feel confident with the 300 so I shoot it most often. Other then to check a zero, I really don't shoot off the bench and don't think the recoil is that bad. As Bobby said earlier, shot placement is the true killer. Even though I love my 300s, 300 vs '06 really seems to be splitting hairs in 95% of situations.

I picked a 300wm because I wanted to have an exit at any angle I might shoot a deer. Right angle or wrong angle, I didn't want the rifle/caliber making the call on what shots I could or could not take.

I have found that using 180grn @2960+fps, up close shots out to 100-150yrds, cartridge/speed etc. doesn't seem to matter in how game reacts. But over 150yrds, I've yet to have a deer take one step after taking a hit.

Increased velocity increases the the temporary wound channel<blood shot meat>Translates into more tissue damage which leads to less distance traveled after impact.If the temporary wound channel is anywhere near their spine or shoulder, instant death,shot by lightning.Scientist are some of the dumbest people sometimes, 30 years ago science said steriods didn t work.Common sense is still common sense.

Gosh, don't you think bullet construction might have just a teney weeny impact (pun intended) on the outcome? Or is is just 100% velocity and nothing else matters?