I have a 7MM08 Remington 700 Mountian rifle that throws a flyer the first shot from a cold clean barrel.
Does it with the standard factory 140gr. bullet and also with anything I have handloaded.
Shoots great groops once that first shot dirtys the barrel, even if it is a cold barrel.


Al

Many rifles do that. How far out is the flyer?
Are you getting the bbl and chamber completely dry after cleaning.
If the bbl is cold but dirty is the first shot a flyer as well?
Try dry patching the bbl a few more times and again after the clean rifle sets a day or two.

The cold barrel most likely isn't the problem, the clean barrel probably is. I've seen some barrels, usually the better ones that would shoot 150 fps slower when really clean and take 5 shots to gradually get up to full speed and then stay there.

I've gotten so used to a few of my rifles doing that that I don't even bother pointing those rifles at a target for the first three shots, I just put them into the backstop
and only then pointing the rifle at paper.

AllanD

I have a few rifles that do this as well. As was mentioned above the clean barrel is the problem. Most people fire a "fouling" shot before firing groups anyway. At least those that I know.

I have a 30/06 barrel that does this. I've tested it with a clean and unclean barrel and it still does it though it's much worse with a clean barrel. From a clean cold barrel the first shot is 6 to 8 inches high and then the shots come progressively down until by about shots 4 or 5, they're going where they're supposed to go.

With a fouled barrel, the first shot from a cold barrel is about 2.5 inches high and then the rest are right on. The main problem I see is in a hunting situation where you would like the first and subsequent shots to go the same place.

I'll bet that a lot of riflemen don't know where the first shots go relative to the subsequent ones. It's my suspecion that the problem described above is a fairly common occurance.

Prior to a hunt in S. Africa were were sighting in our guns and a PH remarked that clients guns usually shot high. I think it's likely, that said clients clean their guns well prior to the trip. I hadn't cleaned my barrel prior to the trip and my gun (a 375 H&H Magnum) was right on with even the first shot.

My theorey is that the first shot warms the barrel slightly thus making the bore slightly smaller. I don't think one shot sould be enough to warp a barrel sufficiently for the flyer to occur but this is another possibility.

The moral, it's possible to have too clean a gun barrel.

My first shot out of a clean barrel is always low. I figured it was because the lack of copper and powder in the barrel provided less resistance making the pressure lower and hence the velocity lower as well. Never seen the first shot shoot high, at least out of my rifles.

In my experience, really accurate rifles group their first shot from a clean barrel no differently than the others. When I practice, I used to shoot a fouling shot into the dirt. Then, when I started to shoot at painted rocks and could see individual bullet hits at 700 or 800 yards, I started aiming that first shot. That is when I concluded that with a really accurate rifle it makes little difference.

The most inaccuracy is created from lack of liniar straightness, and lack of symetri.

Bacicaly what hapenes when firing a rifle is
1: the cartridge is pushed foreward in the chamber by plunger and firingpinn
2: primer ignites, trying to pop backwards out of the case, until is stopped by bolt
3: powder ignites, creating preasure, first expanding brass enough to stick to chamberwalls
4: preasure rises further starting the bullet.
5: preasure rises further exceeding the strength of the casewalls(apx 0.7-1.5 ton depending on wallthickness and casediameter about 1/4" in front of extractorgrowe) now the case stretges untill stopped by bolt and reciever.
6: peek preasure compresses bolt and stretges reciever in its elasticyrange, also trying to make all luckinglugs carry, thereby creating warping an finaly starting the barrel to whip or vibrate.
7: bullet trawels down the barrel, while preasuer gradualy drops, taking load of the lockingsystem.

Now to the issue.
when the camber and case is dry, the case sticks heavily to chamberwalls and caries op to 50% of the internal backthrust (apx 2,5 ton sdt caliber). Leaving only the remaining to effect on luckingsystem
When there is oil or water on case or in chamber, the case is prevented from sticking to chamberwall,and the case cant carry anny backthrust, leaving all apx 2,5 ton (standardcaliber as 30.06or like casedia) of backpreasure to effect lockingsystem.

Keeping the basic in minds, oil in chamber is the main issue of the first few rounds beeing "flyers", so make sure that the chamber is dried totally out before relying on POI.

This problem is almost nonexisting in stiff and symetrik luckingsystems with all luckinglugs carrying from beginning, because those actions only stretges symetrically, therby not creating different barrel whiping and vibrations.

If you has an asymetrical lockingsystem. (worse is rearlocking systems) or an system where lugs doesent carry even from beginning, the wariating loads on action, wil make it whip and vibrate the barrel diferently, causing diferent Point of impact.

So the one who noticed, that high quality rifles(accuracywise) has mutch less tendency to flyers is completly right. And they also changes POI much less and more predictably when changing loads. Ideal only in hights (slow bullets at bottom and fast bullets at top of group)

alleyyooper ----- Welcome to the shooting world my friend, this is not news to us old carmudgeons of the ranges. I shoot two safes full of rifles, and for some reason they all do what you have stated here. Some rifles require more than one fouling shot, the coated bullets seem to need more than one fouling shot. After cleaning my barrels, I always shoot a fouling shot, or note that I haven't so that flyer will not supprise me the next time I shoot. Good luck and good shooting.

Hello alleyyooper,
It is critical in LE/MIL applications of rifles that the "first shot/ cold barrel" shot placement be known and recorded for reference purposes in future applications. Items pointed out by jorgen are very important and often times the lubricants/solvents, etc. in the chamber do cause variance and am sure you know that, but couple suggestions would be to dismount barreled action from stock, inspect for any unusual bearing marks, dark areas, shiny areas, etc. suggesting not solid bedding. Correct if found. First shot will often serve only to "settle" action/barrel into stock recesses and be fine afterwards or for following shots. Perhaps you have already checked this out, but as you replace the barreled action in the stock, tighten front action screw first, rear action screw last. Torque is to be equal on both screws/fasteners. If pillar bedded, advise torque in the area of 55 lbs/in. Less if plain wood. Again, forward screw first, rear action screw last. Discard slotted screw fasteners and replace with allenhead type. No torque wrench, use short handle end of allen wrench first and tighten then use long handle, leverage, and tighten 1/4 turn. Apply system to both front and back action screws. Mark heads of screws w/ white paint ball pen to serve as check if they are loosening. It happens.

Is your barrel broken in?? Some reject barrel break in or burnishing of the bore, but again, you may have already done that. Again, just a suggestion. Above steps are quick and easy to do and cost nothing but your time and if you have tried other steps, just may help????? Good Luck

(1. Flyier goes rightabout 3 inches and high about 2 inches.
(2. Can fire one shot and all the rest group fine. I canfire the one shot and carry the rifle around for a week and groups are all fine.
(3. Barrel is well broke in now after a few hundred rounds I would think.
(4. Have had the action and barrel out of the stock looking for any wear marks {pressure signs}.
Only Renington 700 out of the 7 others I own that do this.

Thanks for the replys.
Al

Hello,
Just for curiosity sake, apply a liberal wet patch of Sweet's 7.62 in bore, let remain for some 20-25 minutes, if stainless could leave longer, but then remove and see how much blue is on the patch. Lots of blue, not broken in, minimum light haze of blue, probably polished/burnished OK. Good quick test to see if bore is fouling with copper, residue, etc.
Good Luck

I posted this on the double rifle forum some time ago, but my Searcy .470 would shoot a flyer out of the left barrel when clean, but not the right. After one fouling shot, the left barrel "returned " to join the right in perfect regulation.

Of course, I cleaned the barrels the same way. They just reacted differently for some reason. The right barrel didn't care if it was fouled or not.. go figure.