ONE OR who has used one and what do/did you think?
I have had one in varying forms since 1970. Model 88, Grendel bolt gun, custom Mauser, and now in a BLR, early production.
Have cleany taken deer out to 300 with it. the Speer 250gr bullet just seems made for that cartridge. It WILL shoot through the full length of a deer. Easy to load for. Can work up neat plinking loads with .357 110gr handgun bullets that can really be moved out the bbl.
just a very nice extremely efficient cartridge that never go it's due.
Posts: 624 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 07 April 2003
I have one that I made up on a Model 70 action. It has a stainless Shilen barrel. Shoots great! I've only used it to kill two deer but that's because I have a lot of deer rifles and like to use different ones each year. One of my weaknesses I guess. Mine likes the 225 grain Nosler ballistic tip. It's a long bullet and takes some case space, but I still get 2400 fps and it shoots in an inch if I do my job.
Bob257
Posts: 434 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 22 November 2002
You got it. A superb deer (and a bunch of other stuff) caliber, along with some of the others (like 350 RMag) in the mid-range. Don't know why those numbers never really caught on like they should have.
My 22" Shaw barreled M700 likes 200 Hornady Spire Points ahead of 48 I4895 for around 2500 FPS. Just devastates whitetails.
R-WEST
Posts: 1483 | Location: Windber, PA | Registered: 24 January 2001
Well, I think you said it all. I have had every factory rifle chambered for the .358 win at one time or another and have taken game from mice to moose with it. I especially like it for Blackbear and have taken some really good ones with it.(31 bear to date) My favorite bear load is 44 grns of AA2015br and .250 speer but have used .225 sierras and noslers. Every animinal I've shot has been DOA and no tracking required ! I'm down to one BLR81 now as I'm weak and my friends keep trading me out of them. My favorite of all was an 88 Win. rebored to .358 and I may start that process all over again oif I can find a smith who will rebore without costing an arm and a leg.
Posts: 367 | Location: Farmington, Mo | Registered: 07 July 2002
quote:Originally posted by .358: Well, I think you said it all. I have had every factory rifle chambered for the .358 win at one time or another and have taken game from mice to moose with it. I especially like it for Blackbear and have taken some really good ones with it.(31 bear to date) My favorite bear load is 44 grns of AA2015br and .250 speer but have used .225 sierras and noslers. Every animinal I've shot has been DOA and no tracking required ! I'm down to one BLR81 now as I'm weak and my friends keep trading me out of them. My favorite of all was an 88 Win. rebored to .358 and I may start that process all over again oif I can find a smith who will rebore without costing an arm and a leg.
quote:Originally posted by .358: ! I'm down to one BLR81 now as I'm weak and my friends keep trading me out of them. My favorite of all was an 88 Win. rebored to .358 and I may start that process all over again oif I can find a smith who will rebore without costing an arm and a leg.
THAT has been my problem. I had a very clean Model 88 for the first one and a friend of mine knew an 88 collector and told him about it. He "made me an offer I couldn't refuse". Had a dealer friend who got in one of the Grendels in .358. For those not familiar with the Grendel bolt guns, they were built on Sako actions and had Douglas premium bbls on them. Finally wound up with a Grendel fluted in .243 & 308 and then the standard bbl in .358. Shot great but the folder plastic stocks were too fragile for woods beating. Up pops another guy who is collecting Grendels and he offers me 3 times more for them then I paid for them. Next was a passing with a little custom Mauser made up with a 20" Douglas bbl, but one of the guys I hang with wanted it much more then I wanted to keep it. Now have a rather battered first run BLR I picked up for next to nothing in the greater scheme of things. ("well, the stock has scratches on it and the bluing has worn spots so that is why I am selling it at that price.") If anyone ever knew what I did to their rifles when I get them, they would never sell them to me. I have a real affinity for Brownell's black krinkle paint. They may look ugly when I am done, but they are protected from elements and impervious to further wear. 20 years later the paint is just now chipping off of my Model 70 .375H&H and the blue under the paint looks like it just came from the factory and THAT rifle has been in the elements.
I think the only factory .358s I haven't tried yet is the Ruger 77 and the Savage 99. I'm always looking.
Posts: 624 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 07 April 2003
OK, I have a question for all of you who have had a 358winnie built.
If you were to build a 358win on a SA bolt action and plan on having a 22" barrel, what contour of barrel and what twist would you use for 225 gr bullets?
This is the only thing holding me up from sending my action off to be built and with all of you singing the praises of the 358 win. I can't hardly wait any longer.
Posts: 452 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 15 November 2002
I have a .358 Win that is put together on a Ruger Mark ll SS laminated stocked rifle and a 22” # 4 Shilen barrel (1 in 14” twist). If I had it to do again, I would have PAC-NOR install a 22” barrel with a muzzle diameter of around .600”. CP.
I have a Sako AII with a 23" Shilen SS barrel, #4 contour, and 1-14 twist that I built last year - I think it's the cat's meow. I often wonder if I should have it trimmed to 22" or perhaps even 20"; however, it feels good the way it is.
Even though all my rifles are my favorite, I find myself grabbing the 358 more frequently these days. I think the others are getting jealous.
[ 05-01-2003, 02:27: Message edited by: DOCTOR LOU ]
Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001
quote:Originally posted by .358: My favorite of all was an 88 Win. rebored to .358 and I may start that process all over again oif I can find a smith who will rebore without costing an arm and a leg.
It so happens that I found one like that recently. Haven't taken it out against game yet, just shot it at the range. Decent enough groups, but I haven't done any load development for it yet.
I also have a Mex Mauser "Scout" in .358 Win.
Posts: 1079 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 26 May 2002
I bought a used 99F in .358 Win in 1966. I think I paid $71 for it which is fair. About that time I learned how to woods hunt as I had bought my own hunting camp up north a couple of years before. I have shot most of my game with that cartidge. All of them were reloads even though they were the 200 gr Silver Tip at 2460 fps. I can't get these anymore. So now I use 180 Speers at 2700.
My son heard all about the .358's so I had to get him one. A really fine M 70 came my way before that so now we have three of them.
I would like to get a consensis on what the best barrel profile is also for a bolt rifle. The Featherweight 22" barrels that I have are very thin. I suggest a 20" length as the expansion ratio is so favorable. Now we must debate a profile, muzzle diameter etc.
My .358 is a M78 Remington with a 23" #4 contour Douglas barrel. I used flat earth tone Krylon spray paint to camo it and it is one of my favorite deer stompers. I like woods hunting and would like to see Remington bring out the 7400 in .358 Winchester. The .358 is just a great, comfortable, and effective caliber. I like the Speer 220g flatpoint bullets over Win748. Plateau Hunter
I have John King putting a .358 barrel on a VZ24 action for me at the time. Wally Bator designed some bullet molds this winter, one dropping a 233, the other 277gr. from my alloy. Nice flat points, oughta be real killers. I can hardly wait!
My Shilen barrel is 22" and I used the Winchester short action because it's a little longer than the Remington so I can have the bullets a little farther out. It shoots the 225 grain Nosler ballistic tip in front of 47.5 grains of AA2520 for a velocity of 2400.
Bob257
Posts: 434 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 22 November 2002
Bob257 - What contour is your Shilen and what does your rifle weigh?
Plateau Hunter - what does your rifle weigh including scope?
Several of the people I have spoken to at the various barrel mfgs have mentioned that a #3 contour (usually a #3 has a .625 muzzle dia.) is pretty light and thin for a 358. I was at a gunsmith's shop the other day and looked at a Douglas #3 in .375 I thought it looked fine.
I am aiming for a rifle which will weigh around 8 pounds with a 22" barrel. It is the weight of a #4 that concerns me.
My 358 is a pre 64 M70 fwt and its the first rifle I go for when I'm hunting woods or heavy swamps as in Michigans Upper Penisula. If Colorado graces me with an Elk tag the 358 will make the trip.
FWIW, I have a 358STA on a 700ADL. Used a 24" Douglas #3 and a McMillan mountain hunter stock. With Leupold DD and 2.5-8x36,it weighs 7.75# empty. Should help with your comparison.
Posts: 136 | Location: PA | Registered: 16 January 2003
Well KK to answer you question about the bears. I'm not too well off and I sold the rugs and tanned hides and skulls to make more hunting trips. I do have a few mounted in my modest house(cracker box) Two standing, one on all fours a half bear mt. two bear head mounts and 17 skulls all l8" or up. Now as to the best bbl contour and twist. Get a slender contour like that on a stock Ruger 77 or Rem or win. 88 in .308. You may have to get the maker to contour it for you. I just traded off my Ruger 77 with a Shilen bbl 22" because the bbl.looked like a stove pipe and was a little heavy for me. As to the fellow with the Win 88 rebored, if you don't like it Let's try to make a deal. Twist in most Factory guns is 1/12 but the Shilen twist is 1/14 I think the 1/12 is best. Three shot groups with any load in my rifles would punch one raagged hole. the bench rest boys cried at the range. But my rifles are for hunting, not target shooting. The guy who paints his rifles, save some money and use flat black rustoleum, works great. I've done many rifles and shotguns with them.
Posts: 367 | Location: Farmington, Mo | Registered: 07 July 2002
quote:Originally posted by .358: As to the fellow with the Win 88 rebored, if you don't like it Let's try to make a deal.
You talkin' to me? My intentions for it are to use it against the local feral swine here in CA, so I probably won't consider selling or trading it until I've at least given it a field trial against the porkers.
Posts: 1079 | Location: San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 26 May 2002
Elkslayer-Just weighed my .358 and it weighs right at 7.9# unloaded with scope(Bushnell 3x9x40mm). Remember the M78 Rem has no bottom metal(adl type) and a cheap and light birch stock. The muzzle diameter is .690 and I believe the contour is a #4. I had it rebarrelled from a .308 several years ago by Ray Montgomery in Grand Junction, CO.
A .358 could be made lighter easily enough but mine doesn't seem 'heavy' in the woods. The Model 7 synthetic would make up into a real light .358 woods carbine. But I wouldn't want a barrel shorter than 20" even in a minimum type carbine. Plateau Hunter
Had one in the BLR. It was a 1 MOA gun with the 250 Speer @ 2450 FPS! Many say it's a short-range, woods round. It is more than that. It shoots as flat as a .303 British, which has killed a lot of enemy troops at ranges beyond 500 yards.
No, but I want one. I will probably have to have one built if/when I find a good used short action. I would have to decide on a 20 or 22 inch barrel...maybe I'd go with a 21-inch one just to be different.
Calif Hunter - FWIW still time to get in on the charter issue of the M1999 MRC actions at $350, stainless or CM, left or right handed. From what I remember, the magazine length is more than 3" which allows for longer bullets in the 358win.
Posts: 452 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 15 November 2002
i got one .it started life as a remington 760 carbine in 308. had labounty rebore it. add a leupold old straight 3x and it makes a neat gun for hunting deer here in pa.
i have 3, and shoot a 4th blr 81 (not mine) sav 99 1903a3, that I made mex mauser ultralight... 7.25 loaded and scope.
i've use 1x10, 1x12, 1x14, 1x16... the 1x10 is the most accurate, then the 1x12... both douglas barrels.. both launch 225 sierras at 2525+/-. both are under an inch... the mexican is a DREAM to carry with a 20" barrel
The muzzle diameters of both the 99F's and M70 F's are about .570". That leaves less than an 1/8" wall thickness and I feel that the entire barrel is too thin for good accuracy. I would much rather trade 2" of length and have some more barrel diameter.
quote:Originally posted by Savage99: I bought a used 99F in .358 Win in 1966. I think I paid $71 for it which is fair. About that time I learned how to woods hunt as I had bought my own hunting camp up north a couple of years before. I have shot most of my game with that cartidge. All of them were reloads even though they were the 200 gr Silver Tip at 2460 fps. I can't get these anymore. So now I use 180 Speers at 2700.
My son heard all about the .358's so I had to get him one. A really fine M 70 came my way before that so now we have three of them.
I would like to get a consensis on what the best barrel profile is also for a bolt rifle. The Featherweight 22" barrels that I have are very thin. I suggest a 20" length as the expansion ratio is so favorable. Now we must debate a profile, muzzle diameter etc.
UHH, I'll give you $100 for it and that way you get rid of a beat up old rifle at a profit.
How about the 70 at the Kesselring shop for $3995! Good grief what a price. And it has a low comb? I am not impressed by odd ball stuff that may or may not be "orginial". A late club memeber worked at Winchester most of his life as a toolmaker/smith. He told me that they just put stuff together if they had the parts. In other words if some parts were left over they put them on a rifle to ship it out. So what, whats the big deal about that and yet some anal collector will go nuts because he has a M 70 that has the rear sight that belonged on a 94 or something.
Savage99-I've been reading your dribble for awhile now and I've just got to ask you a question? Are you for real or just a douche-bag? Man you are a self styled expert on everything there is about guns! A real legend in your own mind huh? From what I've read of your posts, you don't know shit!
Posts: 50 | Location: michigan | Registered: 16 February 2003
I have a suggestion for you. If you want to discuss stuff with me then don't try to win by insulting me. I have a lot of self confidence and I know what I am talking about. Now a lot of this is my opinion and some of it is for fun. When I rile up someone like you I get the biggest kick out of it and chalk it up as a win.
So stick to the facts or even opinion.
But to use "swears" is not going to impress or move me. I take this topic too seriously to be impressed by your lack of tact.
The muzzle diameter of my Ruger Special Edition Whelen is around .560,� and I�ll bet the new Browning 81 .358 Win is less than .600.� My Whelen is certainly not the most accurate rifle that I own, but it is more than adequate for its intended purpose.
In the places that I use .35 calibers, a bayonet fixture would probably make more sense than a larger diameter barrel. No, using .35s is not about having some ill-conceived notion about brush busting, but rather my view that this caliber provides some real game anchoring dynamics. In the fir jungle environment, I am hunting them out of their mid day beds and I want a rifle that is light, short, quick to point and has some thumping power.
The fir jungle (they can be hemlock as well) hunting experience is more a kin to still hunting Whitetails than perhaps what is generally associated with elk hunting techniques. Not unlike Whitetails, many times they explode out of their beds and all you may see is a few brown flashes, crashing of hoves, brush breaking (that sounds like the derailing of a freight train) and then silence. Trust me, the very last thing on my mind, when I am in the bottom of a hell hole and have managed to push a herd hard enough to have them blow out of the country without getting a shot, is any consideration that I have enough barrel that I can shoot a 5 shot group under 1.� I realize that some folks feel that heaver barrels provide for steadier off hand aiming, but it just does not work that way for me.
As a footnote, Winchester still manufactures factory 200 gr. .358 Win. Silvertips. You can go to the Sportsman�s Warehouse in Spokane or Missoula and buy all you want. CP.
WHEN WINCHESTER was making the 250gr silvertips, I never dreamed of handloading for it. They just worked on everything really well. When they settled on just the 200 gr I found they did just not perform the way I was used to the heaviers doing. I settled on shooting nothing but Speer 250s when I had a jump shot at a nice sized Mich whitetail 4 point as I was walking out one evening. As it cleared a blowdown I snapped off a shot. I saw the ass end drop and a couple seconds later I heard the resounding crash of something fast and dead hitting brush.
I got to the deer and did the autopsy. The bullet entered the right rear leg smashing the large femur bone and continued on. It ranged through the entire stomach paunch and continued on. It ranged through the diaphram picked a piece of the heart and a lung and continued on. It blew into a front rib and continued on. It continued through the skin out the front and continued on. It could still be continuing on for all I know. What ever game I have shot with one, it has always taken only one shot. I have NEVER recovered a Speer 250gr bullet in any game I have shot. How did the bullet perform, expand, retain weight????who knows???? Is that "good" bullet performance or "bad" bullet performance? How can you tell if you never recover one?
Posts: 624 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 07 April 2003
I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would sell anything in .358 WIN, particularly a model 88. I have a harder time understanding why the caliber is DOA with every reintroduction. It reafirms my thought that way too many men think with the wrong head when they are young.
Mine is a Ruger 77. First shot was on paper at 25 yds with factory 200 gr Silvertips. Next three cut a .85" triangle at 100 yds. Chamber is oversized, the bore undersize and fouls badly. It will shoot MOA or less with the 5 different bullets and 6 different powders I've tried. Boring gun. Thinking about trying paper patch lead for hogs.
I have a BLR in .358. One of the newer ones. Gold trigger and all. I shoot nothing but 250 gr Hornaday RN's in mine. If I was inclined, I would get me a M-70 action and have one built. For some reason it never caught on. I shoot a 338 Winchester Mag for the most part these days. And I can shoot just about any kind of rifle I want, hell I own plenty of them. The 358 is a pure hunting cartridge with out a doubt. Its also pretty much a handloaders deal too.
Posts: 1070 | Location: East Haddam, CT | Registered: 16 July 2000
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