Dear Sirs:

I am planning to build a custom made non magnum 8 mm in a Prechtl action (new made M-98). I cannot decide between 8x60 S and 8x64 S. What increase of speed can I expect from 8x60 compared with 8X64, loaded both at the same pressure (around 60.000 PSI).

There is very little difference in performance, as they both have about the same case capacity. The 64mm is obviously longer, but it is more taperered thru the body and shoulder. The OAL is also nearly the same in a standard 98, so the bullets are taking up any additional powder space offered by the 64mm.

When making the same decision, I opted for the 60mm because it has enjoyed more popularity and has a richer history.

6,5X57,

I would go for the 8X64S Brenneke, one of my ZG-47's is chambered for this cartridge

8X64S( 87,48 mm OAL) got 69,50 grains capacity before overflow while 8X60S( 83,59 mm OAL) got 64 grains capacity.

Cheers
/JOHAN

I went through the same thought process a couple of years ago with my Persian 98/29. Got good advice from the AR guys, gave a lot of thought to the game sought, range of shots, etc.; know what? I ended up with the 8X57 using 200 grain original Barnes. Everyone says, " Damn, what's that you are shooting?" One shot, One kill, no chasing wounded, trying-to-die-later deer or hogs.

The 8x64 is still offered by Sellier & Bellot and Brenneker, I don't think the 8x60 is still loaded. But then, I know I have been wrong before, my wife tells me so.

RWS still loads the 8x60S.

180 gr bullet at 2740 fps (11.7 gram bullet at 835 ms)

http://www.rws-munition.de/en/rws_ruag/rws_ruag.htm

-Bob F.

I heartely agree with Kurt, go with the '60. If you want somthing with more punch, the 8-06 is the way to go.

But as Ole Miss Guy says, the 8x57 will do the same with a lot less truoble. If you handload, get your smith to make longer freebore for longer COL on the 57.


Here are 8x57 with extended free-bore, regular 8x57IS, 8x60S, 8mm-06, 8x64S.
Even though the two '57's do not look alike, they are. I guess it is the light.

Given there is no practical difference in performance between an 8x60S and an 8x64S, I would consider the options for getting factory ammo (if you rely on that), and/or components and tools (if you reload).

Neither caliber is all that easy to find either ammo, cases or dies for. RWS makes cases for the 8x60S, and they are quite expensive if good quality. S&B makes cases for the 8x64S at semi-decent prices, Brenneke also sells 8x64S brass, but some maintain it is simply S&B brass with a different headstamp and double the price. Dies are possible, but certainly not inexpensive nor easily available compared to dies for more popular calibers.

I don't know if you are allowed to own an 8x57IS in Spain?? I seem to recall something about "no military calibers, except for the .30-06"?? If you are allowed to own an 8x57IS, it does indeed not lag a whole bunch behind the 8x60S/8x64S. It would certainly have the advantage in terms of ammo, components and dies.

I'm not going to argue with Bent about the suitability of having a chamber long throated. If he likes doing that, fine. I took similar advice when I had one of my first custom rifles built. Hey, "extend the throat a bit, and a .280 Rem becomes a 7mm Rem Mag" - sort of thing. Well, yes and no. The problem is that you can't actually KNOW in advance which bullets will shoot in your rifle. Let's assume you plan on shooting heavy bullets, but the rifle turns out to shoot lighter bullets better. Happens all the time. Having had your freebore set up extra long to be able to push in a few extra grains of powder may not seem such a good idea then. Now when I have the option of specifying a throat, I try to hit a compromise between being able to seat bullets close to the lands in the entire weight range I imagine shooting, yet make sure I have good seating depth in the case, and seated deep enough to function through the magazine and allow me to load out the bullet when the throat recedes. To set up your throat just based on one single bullet, and one single option is kind of risky, or at least I think it is.

Quite apart from that, the 8x57S (like a bunch of other European calibers) is often delivered with very long freebores. I don't know what options you have in your smithing in Spain, but it is kind of rare we have as many options in Europe as they do in the US - e.g. specify (and pay for) a special reamer that you want to be used for your chamber. I'd venture a guess that more than 90% of all custom guns in Europe are done with whatever reamer is avilable. Most likely, your smith's reamer wil have a pretty long freebore as it is (to safely adhere to CIP standards), in fact your smith may not even know or remember.

Anyway, lots of options to think about.

Just as a final comment, I actually chose an 8x64S, but I'm sure not going to tell you it would be the better choice for YOU, only you can really tell.

- mike

I just completed my 8x60S and while I like it a lot, in practical terms, the 8x57 will do damn near as much without all the added effort. I think Bent advised correctly. Were I to only have one 8mm it would be the 8x57. Luckily I can have many, and do.

I agree that most 8x57's as delivered have generous freebore and I have had no problems seating long bullets way out there. If not, it is easily corrected.

quote:

Originally posted by 6_5X57:
Dear Sirs:

I am planning to build a custom made non magnum 8 mm in a Prechtl action (new made M-98). I cannot decide between 8x60 S and 8x64 S. What increase of speed can I expect from 8x60 compared with 8X64, loaded both at the same pressure (around 60.000 PSI).

It seems to me that the difference between an 8X64S and the 8X60S would be about the same as the difference between an 8X60S and the 8X57JS.... in other words, at least 100 FPS more from the 8X64S with 200-grain bullets. More with heavier ones.

If you are looking for the most power from such a case, use the 8mm/'06 Improved or better yet, the 8mm Gibbs, a super-improved .30/'06 case necked up to shoot 8mm bullets. The Gibbs will produce 2900 FPS with the 200-grain bullet.....

quote:

Originally posted by KurtC:
There is very little difference in performance, as they both have about the same case capacity.

There is a significant paper difference in performance, as the data tables show. This is mainly due to the difference in case capacity. The shooter should be aware of this; the game often will not.

quote:

When making the same decision, I opted for the 60mm because it has enjoyed more popularity and has a richer history.

I would opt for the 8x64 because it is more classic, is older, has a richer history, and has not been born out of a purely legal distress. There are also more factory loads available for it.
(Notwithstanding all this, I do own a 8x60 - it just happened so).

Carcano

quote:

Originally posted by BFaucett:
RWS still loads the 8x60S.

180 gr bullet at 2740 fps (11.7 gram bullet at 835 ms)

http://www.rws-munition.de/en/rws_ruag/rws_ruag.htm

-Bob F.

Thanks for that I wasn't sure of the x60s' factory status.

8x60 v 8x64?
Given the choice like Carcano I too would have the x64.
However it's more likely I'd opt for the x57.

I happen to think that the 8x60s is a perfect fit for an Argentine 09 length magbox.

It seemed a great way to get good punch with reasonable recoil until I obtained a 30-06 ZG47 that shot well......