Here in Australia in the local "Australian Shooter" magazine this month is a rather interesting article on the 7mm Rem Mag.
The author goes on to extole the various virtues of the caliber and the disadvantages but the last paragraph caught my eye. To quote :
"The 7mm Rem Mag is no longer the ultimate factory 7mm and with both Winchester and Remington promoting their new offerings, it is surely only a matter of time before it declines in popularity to become a battered curio around a campfire of ageing hunters."
What do you guys think??
Posts: 789 | Location: Australia | Registered: 24 May 2002
The 7mm Rem.Mag. will be here long after the others have fallen by the way side. The short mags are a fix of a non existant problem in my opinion.The weigh saved is just not enough to justify. The Ultras,STWs,ect have purposes but I can't see for what??? To me it all boils down to a what you want thing and surely not what you need. If your going to need to shoot farther than a 7mm Rem.Mag. is capable of in my opinion you are shooting too far,get closer.Thats hunting.
In my opinion the 7mm, 300 and 338 Remington Ultras will have a very long run because they represent the maximum that can easily be done on a Remington 700 or Model 70.
Those 3 must be causing Weatherby to have chest pains. I also think that the 375 Ultra would be doing much better than is indicated by this forum.
I do think that both the 7mm Remington and 300 Winchester will be overtaken and replaced by the 270, 7mm and 300 WSM. One reason being that most Americans use factory ammo and the loads will be downgraded for the 7mm Rem and 300 Win and upgraded for the Short magnums.
But in the 270 to 30 calibre range the 270 Winchester and 30/06 will remain the main event and the others will fight out the preliminary bouts
Mike
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
The 7 Rem Mag will be around longer than anyone posting on this board. I hunt with one and like it although the 7WSM makes more sense to me, I'm not gonna run out and buy one because what I've got works. What a lot of gun enthusiast/hunters don't understand about most nonenthusiast hunters who make up the majority of all hunters is they just don't care. A rifle is nothing more than a tool to get a job done. At camp this year, the subject of guns and cartridges came up. I was telling them about my new wildcat 25WSM that I'm building. They were all looking at me like I was speaking Japanese! And then one of them say's "I've heard about those short magnum cartridges." They know I reload ammo and think I'm an alchemist. These guy's know their sport well and the rifle is just the part that finishes a successful hunt. I can see the death of one of the 7mm short mags in the near future, either the Remington or the Winchester and I can see one of them surviving to have a very bright future, but I don't see the 7mm Rem Mag going anyplace in my life time.
[ 12-18-2002, 17:48: Message edited by: TC1 ]
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002
I don�t think the 7RM will disappear, or even become less popular. It still has more capacity and can obtain higher velocities than the short magnums, it gives you one more round in the magazine than the short fat ones and fit a regular action better than a shorter round. Besides there was never anything wrong with the 7RM, so I think many people will prefer the "tried and tested". Where I live components and reloading equipment for 7RM is still a lot more available and a lott cheaper than for the short magnums, wich i think will act to reinforce its popularity over the competition. We�ll see in ten years maybe? I would be very suprised if the long ultra magnums ever achieves significant popularity. Tron
I don't consider the fastest 7mm available to be the "ultimate 7mm" cartridge any more than I'd consider the fastest car on the road to be the 'ultimate' automobile. Speed counts, but there are other considerations when it comes to cartridge evaluation, including availability, barrel life, barrel length requirements, shootability, etc.
I'm not a betting man, but I say the 7mm Remington Magnum will be here long after most of the "ultimate" 7mm cartridges have fallen by the wayside.
Way too many rifles chambered in this great cartridge and more being made. When the newest fad of short and fat starts to fade, the 7 mag will still be here. The rifle and ammo companies had to do something to stir the pot and increase business. We rifle nuts like "new" but seem to head back to the old standards eventually.
Bob257
Posts: 434 | Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 22 November 2002
30-30, 30-06, 270, and now 7mm Remington Mag all have been put out to pasture at one time or another. The shooting public knows a good thing when they see it and they will keep shooting their 7MM Remington Mags long after the ShortFatUltraMag fad goes away.
quote:Originally posted by Zeke: 30-30, 30-06, 270, and now 7mm Remington Mag all have been put out to pasture at one time or another. The shooting public knows a good thing when they see it and they will keep shooting their 7MM Remington Mags long after the ShortFatUltraMag fad goes away.
ZM
Add the 300 Winchester Magnum to the list of cartridges that will be here long after the latest fad is but a distant memory.
Last Saturday I shot a nice big doe at 350 yards with my 300WM: bam-flop. I hand the rifle to the kid I took hunting (he jammed his .243) and he takes another, smaller doe at the same range: bam-run for 40 yds-flop.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
None of these new rounds are going to replace the old standbys. I expect some will die off (most of the SAUM's will be the first to go) but some will--and already have--become quite popular. According to RCBS's sales list of dies from last year, the 300 RUM was next on the list in popularity right behind the 300 Win Mag. That's pretty high on the list.
Posts: 920 | Location: Mukilteo, WA | Registered: 29 November 2001
I think the 300 WSM and 300 Ultra mags will stick. But so will the old standards, you can still find some 7x57's around here and there are way too many people shooting 7mm rem mags for them to ever toss em out. People still have 30-30's and they rate pretty high up there on Ammo sales I believe.
Posts: 968 | Location: British Columbia | Registered: 29 May 2002
Agreed. I will take the 7rm and 300wm over the new WSM or ultra mags any day. Why mess with what works? I still cant see any real advantage with the short mags, and why in the world would i want more velocity? Ill take the proven cartridges that spit bullets at the velocities bullets work best at.
Posts: 107 | Location: Tigard, Oregon USA | Registered: 02 May 2001
dingo, I'm sure it will die out and disappear, just like the .45/70, .30/30, and .30/06 did after the newer, better cartridges arrived!!! But it will take a year or two....
Remington will lose the "Short" magnum war. That occured to me just last week when I saw the first Remington chambered for the new round on the shelf of my sporting goods store. (Not a small store.) That was the first time I saw a Remington in the new calibur. Winchester has had their new product on the shelf from almost the day they hit the market.
The Ultra magnums will fall as well, pushed out of the market by the short mags. My dealer tells me he sells a ultra, then takes it back in trade a short time later. That fits with what I noticed on the used rife rack.
The trusty old work horses like the 7mm Rem, the 30 06, 270 Win, will always be here mostly bcause the average hunter isn't a gun nut like shows up here to plaver. He buys what his grandfather, father and uncle used and actually shoots factory loads!
The Ultra mags are over-loaded and over-rated, the new shorts are under-rated. That's where this new marketing war will be fought.
Posts: 631 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 14 March 2002
Think about this one boys, the .30-06 has been with us since 1906, actually 1903 if you want to get technical, and it's still one of THE most popular cartridges almost 100 years later. I don't like the 7RM, I like my .30-06 cause it will do anything the 7RM will do, but the 7RM will be here a lllllllooooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggg time to come, probably longer than the short mags. Yardbird
I was amazed at the first 30 RUM case I saw. WAY too much for the average guy to shoot well ... and probably way too much for close range shots. I think the RUMs will be like the Weatherbys ... some folks will have to have them. Most of us will see them fired and ask ourselves if we REALLY need that abuse! They really do represent the extrapolation to absurdity of magnum fever.
The basic cadre of all 'round performance cartridges (270, 7mm, 7 RM, 308, 30-06, 30 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, and 375 H&H) all have a continuing place in the field. They have good balance and power. They are all relatively easy to shoot (if you have the experience with the larger calibers) and they don't beat you to death.
Winchester did a good job with the WSMs in getting them to market and in getting ammo out for them. Pretty good balance all in all.
The WSMs in 7 mm, 30 cal, and maybe a 338 may allow a new generation of good short actions to appear. They are not over dramatically powered for their intended purposes. They are pleasant to shoot. They'll have a good run.
Will the grand old calibers disappear ... Nawh! They've proven their worth in tens of thousands of hunts. They are treasured companions that will be passed to the next generation along with the love of the field.
What are my two hunting kids getting for Christmas? A 300 Win Mag for one, and a 338 Win Mag for the other who has a 7 Rem Mag already.
Battered curios around a campfire of aging hunters...hmmm. Most of the aging hunters I know who carry battered curios are deadly with them! Just try to buy one of those battered curios--good luck! My 270 and 300 WM are on their way to becoming battered--the more I hunt with them the more I love them. So if the shortultralongboomerbangers take over I don't care--my old standbys will still be deadly!
Good Hunting,
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
I laughed when I read what the Aussy wrote. I can tell you the 7mm Rem Mag will be here a long time. I've seen plenty of 300 WSM, 270 WSM, and 300 RSAUM, but none of the 7mm Short mags any where! So what's that got to say for them?
If the WSM line continue to produce great accuracy like my .300 WSM does, then we'll be seeing a lot more WSM's in the near future! I don't even need to reload for that gun. BUT, I really don't see any way how the 7mm Rem. Mag. or the .300 Win. Mag. can ever be replaced. Challeneged, maybe. Overcome? Never. My first bull moose dropped to a .300 Win. Mag.
Posts: 1005 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 23 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by dingo: "The 7mm Rem Mag ..., it is surely only a matter of time before it declines in popularity to become a battered curio around a campfire of ageing hunters."...
Well, (feel free to quote me) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Write that fellow a short note and recommend he stay "OFF" the Foster's cold-ones when he's writing.
Posts: 9920 | Location: Carolinas, USA | Registered: 22 April 2001
Face it guys, the new rounds aren't that much better (or worse, for that matter) than the old standybys. We all know that. What matters most to Rem and Win is the bottom line. They want to sell more rifles! And that's exactly what they are doing. DUH!
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002
quote:Originally posted by RogerK: The Ultra mags are over-loaded and over-rated, the new shorts are under-rated. That's where this new marketing war will be fought.
You've got that backwards. The shorts are over-rated (advertisements and articles claiming they are the equal of the standards) because they are over-loaded in factory ammo compared to the standards (look at the loads posted here by people that own them and they usually don't beat factory velocities by much, if any). Handloads in the RUM's can outpace factory loads by quite a bit. They actually offer a level of performance that can't be had by the standards for those who want it--not the same bullet at the same speed fired from a different round.
Posts: 920 | Location: Mukilteo, WA | Registered: 29 November 2001
quote:Originally posted by RogerK: The Ultra mags are over-loaded and over-rated, the new shorts are under-rated. That's where this new marketing war will be fought.
You've got that backwards. The shorts are over-rated (advertisements and articles claiming they are the equal of the standards) because they are over-loaded in factory ammo compared to the standards (look at the loads posted here by people that own them and they usually don't beat factory velocities by much, if any). Handloads in the RUM's can outpace factory loads by quite a bit. They actually offer a level of performance that can't be had by the standards for those who want it--not the same bullet at the same speed fired from a different round.
Well stated, I like the 300 RUM. It offers some previously only avalible from Weatherby. I think it's a winner and will be here for a long time. I also think all the new 7's are going to have a harder time of it. Just too many good 7's around that aren't that old.
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002
Will all of the rifles that shoot the belted mags disappear in a cloud of smoke as of Jan 1st, 2003? Nope. Will the companies still produce ammo for them? Yep.
What I see in this particular new development of cartridges is part hype and part practicality. The marketers have to have something that is "different" in order to show a "benefit" to the consumer. On the other hand, those that handload will have an easier case to work with. All other things being equal, a beltless case is better to deal with.
I bet you that in the short time the RUM's and WSM's have been out, they have sold 10X the number of rifles that thier older cousins did when they first came out. Being the 300Win Mag, and 7mmRem Mag. I mean, I have been going around Bass Pro Shop, and 10 other guns stores looking for a certain .308Win I want, and I can't find one. All I see on the shelves is WSM, and RUM. Two years ago, all senderos I seen was 300Win Mags, and 300Weatherbys, now, I rarely see a sendero in those offerings. All they are now is RUM. Companies have marketing departments that have sharpened their skills to a fine edge. I looked at the guy from Bass Pro, and said, "What do you mean, you can't get a .308 in a medallion", and he said all everyone wants is the WSM. Obviously not everyone, but they sure are pushing that pitch everyone.
Now I got RUM, and think its an outstanding round, but its not the only one out there.
quote:Originally posted by bigcountry: I bet you that in the short time the RUM's and WSM's have been out, they have sold 10X the number of rifles that thier older cousins did when they first came out. Being the 300Win Mag, and 7mmRem Mag. I mean, I have been going around Bass Pro Shop, and 10 other guns stores looking for a certain .308Win I want, and I can't find one. All I see on the shelves is WSM, and RUM. Two years ago, all senderos I seen was 300Win Mags, and 300Weatherbys, now, I rarely see a sendero in those offerings. All they are now is RUM. Companies have marketing departments that have sharpened their skills to a fine edge. I looked at the guy from Bass Pro, and said, "What do you mean, you can't get a .308 in a medallion", and he said all everyone wants is the WSM. Obviously not everyone, but they sure are pushing that pitch everyone.
Now I got RUM, and think its an outstanding round, but its not the only one out there.
Marketing cuts both ways. This will go on for about another year, if that. What you describe will go away when:
a) people get over the newness of the WSM/RSAUM
or
b) the gun companies introduce the "next big thing".
One of your problems is buying from the BIG retailers. Patronize the smaller gunshops and you will find a whole other level of service and variety.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
Thanks but I don't have any real problems. Not being able to buy a gun I want is a luxury, not one of my hugest prioritys.
I doubt there will be any "next big things" for quite some time in the .277 or .308 markets. From a marketing perspective, I couldn't see how it would make sense to topple your good earnings sales you created with another. I mean everyone is very emotional over these new offerings for some reason. Not really sure why, but if you think about it, it was time for some new stuff to come out. It went for years without any major new offerings (besides the occasional rare wildcat) in the medium bore market. Only time will tell and the rest is just forum BS. In two years, email me and we will discuss what took place in these markets. Other than that, its all opinion.
As far as local dealers. I have had it with them. It is so difficult to find one in this area (Maryland) to give you a fair price on a gun and work with you on orders like with this 308 I want. And by the way, I did go to them first. Before Bass Pro was here, they were arrogant, and very unhelpful. They knew they were the only game in town. At least Bass Pro offered to order the gun for me. Now, these old sporting goods shops are shocked to find there sales 50% down. I wonder why. Thanks for the tip, but I got it covered KS.
bigcountry, I guess your experiences and mine with local gunshops are different. I'm lucky I live in a place where local dealers will mostly deal fairly and bend over backwards to earn your business.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
I can't see the 7Mag giving up the ghost in such a short time, although they might take a dig in sales from the new stuff. Either way, there'll always be nuts like me who have to have everything and that'll keep something going.
Posts: 1723 | Location: wyo | Registered: 03 March 2001
Ks, yes you are. Come to Northeast sometime and see what I am talking about. I have two extremes. I go to Eastern Ky sometimes and have very little to no gun shops around for a 50 mile radius or here in MD, where customer service is dead. I often think about opening a gun shop in the Westminster, MD area and really trying to earn peoples trust. Then I see the statistics on failing business, and think I am not a business man.
I read that article too. When I had finished it my conclusion was that the magazine really ought to get them selves some decent authors (and a new editor). That article, like most in "The Journal" nowadays, was just padding with very little technical detail. In fact if it weren't for the fact that the mag comes free with membership I wouldn't even bother reading it - certainly wouldn't go out and buy it!
GG
ps in 50 years the 7RM will be regarded as a classic just as the .270, .30 06 etc are now.
Posts: 500 | Location: Queensland, Australia | Registered: 07 August 2001
I didn't read the article, but the new issue of Rifle Magazine did a piece on the current crop of 7mm's and judged the 7mm Remington Magnum the best 7mm of them all...
How many times over the years has the 30-06's swan song been sung by some "guru?" That ditty is really getting old these days! And RCBS again confirmed for 2002 that the "thirty caliber ball cartridge of 1906" is still the number one rifle chambering.
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