Doubless, I remember my last 338/06 hit deer with 200 Btip, 25 yds through the last ribs diagonally through off shoulder and stopped, weighed 120 grains, nice size buck, jumped 3x after hit and down.

I think he 'absorbed all of the 3500ft lbs or so that bullet had at 2900 MV.

None the less, Seafire, I appreciate your feedback, the hunter was using factory loads, likely 2800/2900 or so, no premium stuff, and likely it did less damage than a 'better bullet' would have done.

The deer did die, I wonder if blood trails on lung shot deer depend on how high or low as well as the entrance/exit diameter for the blood to flow?

It would seem the lower the hit, all else equal, the lungs would fill up with blood in the lower part of the lung first, but I may be completely off base.

Any opinions on this?

Guys I appreciate all the comments, good/bad/indifferent.

I believe I will stay with my plan of future evening hunts using a caliber that is 338/358 with a bullet sure to exit, and go for the shoulder to break down the animal faster and initiate more expansion and shock as most people say they can 'eat up to the bullet hole' with the larger bores unlike high speed smaller bores.

Chuck-did you mean aim 6-8inches from top of back, or shoulder?

Thanks.

By the way guys, I shot a deer a couple of years ago in the neck with 70gr TNT in a 243 #1 Ruger mannlicher, and it about decapitated it, and yes dropped it right there, also spine shot one at 200 DRT and the 2nd at 400yds double lunged with 6BR 105Amax-it went 25 yds or so, both lungs mush. SO I can place my shots and those last 2 were from my custom #1 single shot and both were 1 shot a piece (oh, they were in the evening, in a field, with somewhat better light, 20 minutes or so of last light). Just so you know I 'ain't promoting overkill or a sloppy marksman'

None the less, those perfect placed shots rarely are possible in the last of shooting light that usually happens here in the thick south.

I disagree with those saying the shot placement was the issue. With the right bullet they'll drop.

In my experience the "new" trend toward ultra tough bullets, and the attitude that they are needed, has resulted in lots more tracking. Deer are small, fragile animals and the rapidly opening bullets do drop them more often. The tough bullets pass through but don't seem to drop them. The "softer" quick opening bullets do so much damage internally, and so quickly, that they have a higher rate of dropping them. I like the round nose, SST, BT, Sierra, ect. for heart lung shots. The Sierra is almost to tough in heavy for caliber weights. The .257 Roberts with 100gr Nosler BT into the lungs resulted in DRT type reactions for me.

I think the tough bullets don't work very consistantly on deer for bang-flop type shots. I don't shoot shoulders as there isn't enough meat on a deer to waste any.

A slighty miss-placed shoulder shot will result in a far worse tracking job. Also,I have never had a deer fail to drop from a neck shot, either at the shot or within a few steps if it takes the jugulars instead of spine. Placement is always key, but bullet construction needs to match with the velocities and game for the choice of placement. Why use a monometal premium for a shot choice best served by an SST?

On another note, I tried the 200gr Nosler BT in my .338 WM. It shoots very well in mine but they were so explosive in milk jugs that I never used them on game. They would have been a grenade in a deer! They were an older batch of bullets, and I've heard they are thicker jacketed now so test some before you try them. I was looking for a little more distance but have since decided it wasn't worth it in that rifle at least for elk. Nate

6.5BR...I have tracked around 1000 wounded BG in 20 years - range from roe and red deer to boars and brown bears all sizes, shot with many different calibers and bullets hit in all possible organs under different angles...in my beginnings I was a "wise guy" - predicting and discussing where the animal is hit and where we will found it...but as time went on and experience grow I was getting quieter and stop with forecasting completely...I believe that anything can happen when you pull the trigger (Mr. Murphy is there all the time) so today, when I come to help a fellow hunter with my dog all I say is: "we will see"...to put it simply - there are no guaranties and no "magic bullets" tho the possibilities are better with bigger calibers and imho heavy slow bullets (above 2200 fps)...but as someone mentioned before - some animals just wont die - if you hunt and shoot those things will happen sooner or later - I would not bother about it (just take it as a fact) and expect to happen...

My 338/06 200 btip bullets were used around '95-97 so they may have had a softer jacket, worked great on deer, pass through on 2 others.

I agree many bullets used on deer would do better if they expanded faster, but I simply have a goal in mind to use something that will punch clear thru everytime no matter what, but I would like expansion and the more the better, again as long as it punches an exit for a generous blood trail.

The 180 btip likely is lighter jacketed I presume than the current 200's and may perform better say on a lung shot deer. The 200 is better downrange and certainly if used on an elk, but I would go 210 or better on elk in 338, just because I would likely p/u more penetration needed on some angles.

I think the 200gr Hornady in any 338 bore is a great choice on deer as it carries alot of mass and should expand plenty, and I would believe give an exit on most all shots. SD is .250 and that should be enough for deer.

I have seen through the years many tests showing penetration/wound channel, bullet frontal expansion/wt. retention tests in HANDGUNS used in ballistic gel.

The industry REALLY does us a disservice NOT having more comparison tests/reports on RIFLE bullet performance in a consistent medium.

Mouse93, what you say is largely true, I just want to hedge my DRT ratio as best I can within reason.

Trust me, I really enjoy the BR and '08 ctgs much more than getting beat up by larger cases, but for the occasional shot on a hunting only rifle, I am willing, can tolerate and accept a certain amount of recoil, etc for that one shot you take when hunting game.

I have wanted to relay the same thought you stated to a friend/the landowner who hates tracking/losing deer.

His 280 replaced his 243 and hit drop ratio went way up, last year drt with 139 SST factory ammo, and then it was stolen this year, so he has had to do some tracking again.

I PICK my shots with small ctgs and do pretty good, but the last one I helped him trail was shot at dusk, complete pass through double lung, NO BLOOD trail, his lab found it the next morning, ran about 150yds.

I HAVE to believe if a larger caliber i.e. 338 or 358 bore, that a decent blood trail would have been there to find the deer that night, it was raining lightly (ground very wet) and any small drops of blood in pine needles in a thicket were easily missed or washed away.

Just wanting to PLAN for murphy's law.

Thanks to all who posted replies. The feedback was very informative.

...shots with no visible blood are usually high, with bullet sometimes penetrating "clean" between the ribs - I remember a small calf (15 pounds) that I shot with 7x57R behind the shoulder - it jumped and went for 150 yds then lay down with head up, all i could see was that it was licking the blood that was trickleing from its nose and after 1 min it just slowly put the head down and died, I also whitnessed small red deer (25 pounds) being shot through lungs with 7 mm rem mag that made exit wound 5 inch across that was visible from 150 yds and still manage to go for 100 yds, also seen a roe deer doe (about 30 pounds) hit quartering with 300 WM on the shoulder with exit on paunch - the bullet draged the intestines out and those were still hanging on when doe took off and made another 300 yds... ...I started my hunting with fathers 7x57R and 7x64 and continued with 7,62x54R just to end with 8x68S (similar to .338) and 9,3x62 I have also reduced my shooting distances to max 250 yrds and start to avoid taking risky running shots...I may be superstitious and dull but I dont pick any gun that has not at least .32 caliber for my hunting - since then I sleep well...

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
...I wonder if blood trails on lung shot deer depend on how high or low as well as the entrance/exit diameter for the blood to flow?

Hey 6.5BR, Absolutely. If it is in the Lower 1/3, and the Deer decides it must run, then your chances of finding Blood are WAY BETTER than having a hole higher.

quote:

It would seem the lower the hit, all else equal, the lungs would fill up with blood in the lower part of the lung first, but I may be completely off base.

Only if the Deer is running Upside-Down will the Blood fill in the upper portion first!

Normallly the basic "shock" of a fairly fast Bullet will destroy the Lungs if you keep the bullet through the Lower 1/3 of the Shoulder. No doubt there will be some Blood-shot meat, but I've found that better than tracking one that someone shot High for 5-8 hours or loosing it all together.

quote:

I believe I will stay with my plan of future evening hunts using a caliber that is 338/358 with a bullet sure to exit, and go for the shoulder to break down the animal faster and initiate more expansion and shock as most people say they can 'eat up to the bullet hole' with the larger bores unlike high speed smaller bores...

Good plan.

It is thick where I hunt also, just like you described in your original post 6.5BR, so chances are your shots are not too far away. More than likely less than 100 yards. I use a 12 gauge slug gun loaded with Lightfield Hybred slugs sighted in at 75 yards. Every deer shot with this combo has been a bang flop. Its hard to beat a slug gun in thick cover. My 2 cents of course.

I have shot deer with .243, 7mm-08, .308, .300 Savage, 30-06, 20 ga slugs, 16 ga slugs, 12 ga slugs, and 45-70 using modern firearms. I have also shot deer using muzzleloaders with a .440 round ball from a .45 cal rifle and a 300 grain Barnes X for muzzleloaders from a .50 cal inline with a 100 grain charge.

IF the deer wants to run the deer will run period. One deer I shot with the .50 using the Barnes had a very impressive exit splatter at the point of hit. That doe still went over 100 yards after being double lunged and spraying blood everywhere.

A low hit in the vitals makes for more blood and easier tracking. A high hit in the vitals makes for less blood and harder tracking.

If the .338 or the .358 bore gives you more confidence go for it. But I have also tracked deer for weel over 200 yards even when double lunged with a 12 ga slug. Other just fall over.

The deer I shoot with my 338 win mag none of which were gut shot all fell very close to or flipped in there tracks.I have never lost over 2 pounds of meat when I shot them with my 338.My nephews uncle shot some with 270 for me and I had to throw away the front half of the deer it was so bloodshot from 270 balistic tips.

Dthfrmbv =thanks for the posts, 12 guage is deadly no doubt, problem is sometimes the stands can have lanes that extend beyond its range,

In the past, I usually center punched the lungs for the least margin of error, but it sounds like I need to aim a little lower, at least on closer shots where drop is not an issue.


Thanks for all the replies/advice.

If your hunting distances are short, like under 75 yards, there is nothing that hits deer harder than a shotgun slug. That is about the biggest projectile that you can hurl out of any hunting firearm.

I agree, where I hunt, the landowner has different stands, some have shots over 400 potentially, others in the woods have lanes cut that extend 125-200 yards. Personally, I like to find where the deer are, and set up a climber and be within 50 yards, and often you see where they fall after you hit them being very high up. None the less, I HATE losing, or having to track an animal while worrying it may be lost, so whether they drop right there, I want to have as reliable a blood trail as possible to find them if needed.

I have heard the accubonds and other bonded bullets have been raved about in smaller calibers i.e. 7mm's, etc.

Perhaps in those smaller bores they offer a lot in terms of expansion WITH weight retention.

I would guess they combine the best of say a ballistic tip expansion with controlled weight retention like previous premiums.

Any feedback on them guys?

I don't know when "double lung shots" came into vogue. I guess it gives the box a year guys a lot of latitude. A "double lung shot" deer will die, but rarely right away. And they can cover a lot of ground in that not right away period. AND, if its a high "double lung shot", they can go a long ways without leaving a blood trail of significance because the blood is puddling inside the chest cavity and lungs. Also, folks that use the "double lung shot" and say they're meat hunting are kinda clueless. The longer the deer is on his feet, the hotter, stronger, and tougher the meat is gonna be. Given a choice, its better to lose a little shoulder meat than end up with venison that ain't fit to feed to the dogs. A shoulder shot is more of a bang-flop shot not because of the shoulder but whats behind the shoulder. Heart, aorta and such. And a bullet thru the shoulder sends bone shards throughout the chest cavity. To put a deer on the ground at the shot, you've got to disrupt the nervous system. And a "double lung shot" doesn't do that.
Aim for the exit hole.

Just because a hunter chooses to take double lung shots does not mean that he does not diligently practice with serveral boxes of ammo a year. It does not make him less of a hunter or a marksman.

I would hazard a guess that the double lung shot came into vogue around the time primitive man first made the bow. Archers prefer this shot actually their best shot if if the deer is slightly quartering away. Broad side and slightly quartering away were also the best shot angles for the early snaphans and flintlock muzzleloaders. Round balls and arrows do not always penetrate bone real well so a double lung shot is best.

Modern rifles have much more power and ofer many more options. Perhaps my tracking skills are better. I have always been able to take the shot, wait 15-20 minutes, get out of the stand, track, and field dress my deer, and clean my knife and hands in less than 1 hour regardless of whether I shot through the shoulder or went for a double lung shot. I always wait even if they bang flop. I chamber another round and am ready in case the animal get back up.

I have also seen several deer run with shoulder shots as well.

Personally, I have done a fair amount of shooting, hunting, and killing game in my life and continue shooting many rounds a year. I always hated to ruin meat but perhaps deer do taste 'stronger' if they run after a hit, so many variables.

I have no doubt a lung shot deer hit with any reasonable caliber is a dead deer. It is simply a matter of finding them in dense brush w/o a blood trail that has been in issue with me hunting evening hunts where I do the past few years. The landowner has seen many hunters on his property lose animals shot at, or hit and has no tolerance and I cannot blame him, even though murphy's law is a reality.

I can think of 3 deer out of 30 or more killed and retrieved that I KNOW I hit but never recovered. One was a neck shot 100 yds dead center hold with a 260 on a NICE buck, swore he was DRT, hair flew everywhere and I later realized I forgot to consider my sight in and likely went OVER his spine and just hit hide/hair.

One deer hit, ran a long ways until out of site, 2 others hit, dropped in tracks, got up never to be seen again and no blood/hair or anything after they left the spot where hit.

Those times when you KNOW you hit one, ever dropped them in their tracks, and then do not recover them, well they are not fun days.

I am trying to MINIMIZE losing any deer by choosing best shot placement, bullet and cartridge choice.

I know how to shoot and usually do a good job before and during trigger squeeze.

I am going to suggest to my landowner friend when guys shoot deer and they run off, with or w/o a blood trail to go get his lab if possible and try seeing if that will do it. He said his dog did help find 2 deer this year.

One deer was a HIGH lung shot, so perhaps we all need to aim a little lower for quicker results and better blood trails when needed.

Thanks.

"double lung shots": "archers prefer this shot." Wow, hottentots used to run underneath elephants and ram a spear into their guts. Days later the elephant would succumb to infection. Let's forgo any advances that modern technology has give us.
And while I think a tracking dog is a wonderful assest to modern hunting (box a year hunters), I have a problem with "spray and pray" shooters that can't find their game.

Just my 2 cents.

I can't tell ya a thing about shooting elk, african animals, or much about pigs. I have, however, been lucky enough to live in a state the allows a rather genorus season limit on deer and I've hunted deer in a lot of different states. I've killed deer with all kinds of firearms from a 22cf to a 375 H&H and more than quite a few with a bow. In the places I have done the majority of my hunting the average deer runs about 120-180lbs and the types of places I hunt are usually one of the two extremes, really large fields and clear cuts or stuff so thick you litteraly can not walk through it. Throw in a good dose of poisionous snakes and seasonal surface water and it makes you REALLY strive for as little tracking as possible.

Bottom line is this- Central nervous system hits give more bang flops, some deer are just going to run, and some deer are just not going to be found. You shoot enough of them and it happens. Make the best effort you can to find your game and then you'll rest a little easier knowing you did what you could.

That being said, I tend to prefer a rather fast expanding bullet and try to stay away from the failsafe/xbullet type of loads. If I were hunting deer at or above the 200lbs mark I might lean a little more toward the other direction.

All the comments prove what the "Gun writers"
have been telling us for years. The 30/06 is not powerful enough for deer. Some sort of magnum is required. If a "big ' gun is used accuracy is not as essential. A man with a "big" gun can get by with just a little skill.
An aquaintance shot a medium sized deer four times with a 7mm Magnum and it walked off, more gun seems to be indicated.
When I was a kid many old timers fed their families on venison using 25/20's. Then the deer started toread the gun magazines.
Good luck!

quote:

By the way guys, I shot a deer a couple of years ago in the neck with 70gr TNT in a 243 #1 Ruger mannlicher, and it about decapitated it, and yes dropped it right there, also spine shot one at 200 DRT and the 2nd at 400yds double lunged with 6BR 105Amax-it went 25 yds or so, both lungs mush. SO I can place my shots and those last 2 were from my custom #1 single shot and both were 1 shot a piece (oh, they were in the evening, in a field, with somewhat better light, 20 minutes or so of last light). Just so you know I 'ain't promoting overkill or a sloppy marksman'

None the less, those perfect placed shots rarely are possible in the last of shooting light that usually happens here in the thick south.

Guys, I hope you read my comments above and are not referring to me as a sloppy marksman in favor or 'magnum' rounds to make up for lack of shooting skill.

I am ONLY referring to issues related to hunting in very dense areas or where the deer can go into them after the shot, in the EVENING
where shooting light may affect the opportunity to cherry pick shot placement to say spine/neck.

I agree with above poster, you shoot enough deer and sometimes things happen that we do not want, but I want to avoid losing any animal.

Hope you all can appreciate what my objective is, NOT to talk bad about small bores/ctg but to look at benefits Medium bores have in terms of blood trails and maximizing chance of recovery in difficult conditions.

Have a great day gentleman and I hope you all have a 100% ratio of deer dropped in their tracks. Nothing makes me happier than when I see that happen after a shot.

I never said a thing about discounting advances in modern technology. I simply answered the question on when hunters started to prefer a double lung shot. Like it or not it has been used for centuries.

Perhaps I am mistaken but you make it sound as if anyone who then uses a bow or otherwise chooses to take a double lung shot rather than a shoulder shot is an unethical hunter or a slob. That is simply not true. I have taken deer with bow as well. Yes they run. But I have found the distance to typically be between 30 and 100 yards as well. Again tracking has not been a problem.

Have I lost a deer? Yes. If you hunt long enough and shoot enough deer eventually a bad shot will happen. The deer that I lost was not do to not recovering a double lung hit. It was simply do to a bad shot with a bow that hit the fore leg and failed to penetrate due to the bone strcture. I tracked that deer for hours and over probalby 5 miles trying to get another shot. I eventually lost the trail.

The simple fact is that as a group we hunters have many seaons that allow many forms of weapons. Some of these weapons are best used on dougle lung or heart type shots. To say this makes the weapon or the hunter unethical because it can not break down the shoulder is the same as saying the weapon or the season that allows that weapon should be eliminated.

A double lung shot is fatal and it does not take hours for the animal to exipre. It takes minutes. Now a gut shot animal is entirely different. They too will die but that will take hours to days to happen. As always shot placement is key. A double lung shot is an ethical shot. You may not like it and that is fine. Others do not like neck shots and that is fine too.

Seems to me Jack O'Conner was a big advocate of lung shots. Maybe he only shot a box of shells a year

Jeff

I double lunged a 8-pointer in Wisconsin back in 1978 and I used a .375 H&H and the damn thing ran 200 yards.....yes I found it but by luck of the fact there was snow to track the deer.

It has been my experience so far that if one wants a bang/flop he's better off with a smaller caliber than a larger caliber compared to the .30-06.....but it's still where ya hit em.....not how much energy you hit em with.

I used a .30-06 this year to get my bang/flop.....and at a dead run as well...luck ya say?

Not shoot a deer in the evening huh. Heck you might as well stay home then. You say there are other things you had rather be doing. Well if those things are that important you probably shouldnt of been out hunting in the first place.
The majority of the deer i've killed here around home have either been at the break of dawn or almost dark.

As was previously mentioned by another poster. The hunting here is either wide open , or very very thick.
When the day comes that I cant follow a blood trail for 100 yds no matter how thick the growth is the day that I stop hunting deer.
I've killed or witnessed deer killed with cartridges from 220swift, 243, 270, 300wm, 300rum, 338, 45-70 etc.
I've seen them fall dead just as fast with the little cartridges like the 243 etc as with a 338 win mag.
Give me a 243 with a good constructed bullet like say a nosler partition and I would not be afraid to shoot any deer that walks with it and wouldnt think twice about it.
Maybe i'm just a dumb Kentucky hillbilly that doesnt know any better, but that is my opinion on it.

Deer are strange animals. I've killed 40 or more with my '06. I've hit large bucks in the back of the chest and had them drop like hit with a canon the next one will run 200 yards or more. I still will stick if the rifle I shoot the best and track the ones a have to. I do believe in 180 gr over 150gr. Just have not experienced a large change in range but hitting power is effected. Just my thoughts.

#1, my want for a mid bore has NOTHING to do with maximizing energy, bullet mass/frontal diameter is what I have wanted in a mid-bore, NOT increasing ft. lbs.

#2, everyone has different experiences, I have successfully used 6BR and 243 with 70gr and up, one deer with 243 dro
pped in tracks, then left with NO blood trail-100gr BTSP, fact is yes, even 22LR kill deer. Read a post where someone shot many in lungs, said they would run about 100 yds stop, feed, then fall over dead.

Is that what some of you want? To use a 22 to prove shot placement is everything?

I believe their is a balance of having a 'safety margin' of the old adage, 'use enough gun' so that IF you CHOOSE to take a less than ideal shot i.e. angling or rear end, in less than ideal conditions-bad light, lots of brush, daylight rapidly deteriorating, then there is good justification for using a mid bore.

I have read many reports of deer bang flop with 338's and many reports of lost deer with 243's.

Yes, I also read opposing views contrary to the above-murphy's law.

Use whatever you are confident in using where you hunt under your conditions and I will use what I decide and will report on my results.

I believe experience will bear out 338 and 358 bores will give me a more reliable blood trail should I need it where I hunt.

To Jarrod, appreciate your posts, but when a 243 100gr partition loses half its weight should you run into a limb BEFORE the deer, how much bullet is making it to target?

Now on the other extreme, if one uses a 200-300 gr out of a 338/358 or larger bore, how much mass is left SHOULD you at dusk 'accidently' hit something and lose part of that bullet?

I think the facts would be that the larger initial mass of a larger bullet would deliver more lead on target in the above scenario. Even if one uses a Barnes x and still has 100 gr of copper left.

Just more to chew on.

Thanks guys, all in good taste.

quote:

I gut shot a deer once, it was at 300yds, and right at dark, the 7mm Rem mag killed the buck instantly, just like it allways does

I think there is something to this. Deer are not tough animals and I believe if you want to kill them on the spot you need light and fast bullets. I have a 358 win, a 338-06, a 358 STA, and a 376 Stery, and have only shot an elk with the 376...so my large caliber kills are very much lacking (thanks to the 30-06 and 270). I had planned on using my 358 win to shoot a deer with this year but I still hadn't killed a deer by the last day of the late season doe hunt so I took my 284 win cause of better optics and range capability, as well as accuracy. I doubled from a tree stand at about 100 yards shooting 120 grain ballistic tips at 3100 fps. The first deer was hit at the front of the onside shoulder and exited behing the offside shoulder and went about 4 feet. the second was facing directly almost directly away and I broke her femer on the way to the heart. the bullet never made it to the hear. just barely made it to the liver and only seemed to bruise it at that. That deer hit the ground and never moved. I would not take that shot again (unless I was using a better bullet ie:tsx or saf etc.) but there is no doublt that impact velocity is responsible for quick kills on these animals.

I don't think having to track an animal a 100 or so yards is a big deal, especially on a double lunged animal that will bleed, but if you must kill on the spot then do it with speed!

This all pertains to deer or antelope. ELK are a much different story! Their size would necessitate 10,000 foot lbs of energy for the same effect. (crude math but you get the point)

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
150 gr I believe, under 50 yards, both lungs, found adequate blood, ran about 100-125 yards, and darned if the 5 of us got turned around in the dark and spent 45 minutes or so getting back out.

Perhaps none of that would have happened if the deer was dumped on the spot with a shoulder shot.

I get your frustration, but to think that a 338+ diameter bullet is going to perform any better than a 30 cal or even 277 is nothing more than total misconception. I've never owned a rifle larger than a 30 caliber other than a ML.

Most every deer I've ever dumped was with a 270 and a 150 grain bullet WITH A PLASTIC TIP going about 2700 fps. In almost 20 years of hunting with a rifle, I've had 1 run more than a few yards, and it was my fault. 7mag, about 40 yards, 150 btip, quartering to me, and I still aimed behind the shoulder. (green horn hunter, and poor decision).

I'll admit I don't know anything about USA deer shooting, but I've read that some of the shooting areas are thick with shooters. So what's with all these bullets going through the animal?
I would have thought a medium cal. with lightish bullets, ie shooter can handle the recoil with out flinching = accurate shot, and hopefully the bullet staying in and expending all its energy where it counts???

Shoot at the SHOULDER and forget it running away.

I have had more "instant kills" by shooting at the shoulder than even a heart shot. When the shockwave hits the shoulder blade, it tends to snap the spine as well.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsracer:
Shoot at the SHOULDER and forget it running away.

I have had more "instant kills" by shooting at the shoulder than even a heart shot. When the shockwave hits the shoulder blade, it tends to snap the spine as well.

OK, heres an interesting question. if you do go for only shoulder shots, which bullet would tear up more meat? A "partition" bullet, or a polymer tipped bonded core? My guess would be the partition would mess up less meat, but what do you guys think.

Time for a little reading

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/mechanics.html

Shouldn't take too long

Great info, I guess a lung shot with high impact speed and fast expanding bullet kills faster, and if you hit the shoulder vs lungs the animals seem to 'go down' more reliable with nervous system shock, of course a shoulder is likely ruined with high speed small bores, I guess I need to use fast expanding high speed bullet on lung shots for quick kills if I wanted to avoid shoulder shots.

I have made few shoulder shots, but they have killed quickly-used to always shoot behind the shoulder.

I guess it all depends on what you are shooting and range/impact speed to determine if you go for lungs or rather break them down in the shoulder. I have seen double lung shots where there is an exit with small bores and little blood came out.

So many variables.

I started this thread because of last minute evening shots where you cannot always place your shot perfect or wait for a better shot and you either take what you can get, or pass.

I don't spray and pray, nor shoot indiscriminately, just wished on occasion a good blood trail was there to follow when it was needed.

Have any of you had good or better responses with bonded bullets in say 6mm-7mm? Accubond, Swift Scirroco, Trophy bonded bear claw?

I would assume more reliable exits but do you get as much internal damage or is the wound channel often smaller like a barnes x?

Thanks for all the experience you all contribute.

I have found that the 150 grain bullet out of an 06 in inadequate too.Where I hunt in Pennsylvania, there is a lot of pressure, and if you don't drop the deer on the spot, someone else will be tagging it.
I use the sierra 180 spbt behind 58 grains of 4831. I never aim for the vitals, but rather the point of the front shoulder. I have taken a dozen or so deer with this load, and can attest that it produces grapefruit sized exit wounds, and they drop on the spot. Deer weights over the years ranged from 110 to 165 pounds dressed.
Before you go out and buy a bazooka for deer, try a heavier bullet, and "shoot for the tires".

Glad to see I'm not alone on dumping game with shoulder/spine shots.

On the meat loss thing, well, I could care less. I want the animal down where it stands. So if I happen to ruin a couple or even 3-4 oz. of meat, well, boo hoo. I'll just have to fill another tag to make myself feel better.

Knock his Transfer case out and you can forget having to track him.

Breakin' the spine drops them EVERY time! But, it has also been my experience that a high velocity rapid expanding bullet will liquify the contnents of the chest cavity.

I guess I'll just have to stick to being one of the the affore mentioned "annie oakley wanna bees".

I don't see anything wrong with the double lung shot. If you punch a good sized hole through both lungs that deer is not long for this world. If you can't find a deer that is shot through both lungs with an exit hole then you need to brush up on your tracking skills. Lung blood if some of the brightest, reddest, blood there is.

quote:

Lung blood if some of the brightest, reddest, blood there is.

Did I happen to mention to you all that I am color blind?

That is true, I see colors, but it does not stand out like it does to some. Never like the red ramp on S&W handguns, preferring other colors that stand out for me.

None the less, If I must follow a blood trail, I want to see it as easily as possible.

Thanks. Will start shooting more in the shoulder, at least in the evenings.

quote:

Originally posted by gixxer:

OK, heres an interesting question. if you do go for only shoulder shots, which bullet would tear up more meat? A "partition" bullet, or a polymer tipped bonded core? My guess would be the partition would mess up less meat, but what do you guys think.

A Barnes TSX will tear up less meat, and you don't have to worry about lead poisoning.