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| One of Us |
Guys, Adding the 8x68S as a candidate to my LH Zastva project as a possibility but don't know too much about it. Any info would be great! Thanks, Jeff | ||
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Jeff, i have one in a Blaser. It's a great round for larger animals, like Elk, Moose, Eland, Kudu, etc. It's about the equivalent of the 8mm Remington Magnum. I heard a rumor that when Weatherby was having his rifles built by Sauer in Germany, he didn't want them made available in 8x68S, as it was a serious challenge to his 300 Wby round, his top seller. | |||
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Very nice round. Developed by Schuler/DWM in Germany in 1938. Only 6 rifles left the Mauser Werke in 1941.. Pushes a 220grs big game bullet in +/- 2800 fps. Very neat for large plains game and moose. Here's a picture of my M98:  M | |||
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metric how does the 8x68 fit in that 98? i thought it would almost be too long without altering the action. just wondering blaming guns for crime is like blaming silverware for rosie o'donnell being fat | |||
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Only a hair longer than the .30-06, 7mm Rem, and other similar catridges. Certainly a lot easier that shoehorning a .375 H&H into a 98 which is done all the time. I had no problems getting mine to fit or feed. If you know what you're doing resolving feeding issues is easy enough.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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The 8x68 S was the invention of Lempel Fuerth at RWS and not Schuler as commonly cited? Is is a stunningly efficient cartridge and equally stunningly difficult to feed if you are outside of Europe. In terms of the US and Canadian market we are subject to having to sit with a single source of ammo and brass in the form of RWS which is then again stunningly expensive. If you have access to components this cartridge is quite a pleasure to shoot ! | |||
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I've lenghtened the mag to accept 89mm cartridges, and moved the bolt a bit back. Also took a couple of mm's of the front feed ramp. Because of it's shape the cartr feeds smoothly. The only disadvantage is 3 rounds down the magazine.. M | |||
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Most of the old 8x68S rifles are made on M-98 actions. I had one on a VZ-24 with a Lothar Walther barrel , now in the hands of a hunting mate. It is a wonderfull cartridge , my favourite for long range shooting . Now I have one on an Blaser and have use it extensively on red deer (trophy hunting and culling operations)and Afrikan plainsgame. It is easy to reload , is more powerfull than a 300 WM and with less percieved (to me )recoil. Pulki. | |||
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As already stated a very effective round. Comparing it to an 8mm Rem is not faint praise. I have two of them. One is a Brno 602 and the other is a custom 98 mauser. No problem getting RWS brass in Canada so far. However you can form useable brass from 300 Win cases. You do need a small lathe to do this.You have to take off most of the belt on a 300 Win case, cut down the case rim using an 8x68 shellholder as a "Go" gauge. Run the case into a 300 H&H size die to reduce the shoulder then resize in the 8x68 die. Load and fireform. The 200 gr partition is a perfect match for this cartridge. | |||
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The magazine box in a ZKK600 (.270/.30-06) should be 3.45" which will accomodate the max length of 3.42" 8x68 round. You will have to measure the Zastava box for length. Great round. Very popular in Africa. | |||
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IMO, there are lots of problems to solve in using the 8x68. I won't list them for two reasons - advocates will ignore them anyway, and if objectivity is desired you'll figure it out for yourself. Of course its ballistic performance is remarkable, but that alone serves only like attracting a bug to light. I started down the path of a custom 8x68 Mauser, and planned of using a LW barrel. I got together brass, and dies, and other stuff. Then I got to thinking about how to actually make it happen, and the glitch was getting a gunsmith to make the modifications to the action to get it to feed right. No guarantees of success any time in the 21st century. So, I ordered a reamer for the 323 Hollis from PTG, and a set of dies from Redding. Meanwhile, I sold all the 8x68 stuff, and bought a CZ 550 in 7mm mag. My first attempt at getting it re-barreled and finished out resulted in disaster, primarily because I sent a stainless LW barrel along with the CZ 550, and the reamer to the gunsmith. I had the choice of the stainless LW barrel or a stainless Douglas barrel, both 8mm, and unfortunately I chose to send the LW barrel. If I had sent the Douglas barrel to the gunsmith instead, the rifle would be finished today. It's a long story, but the short version is the steel galled, and the reamer dulled, and the chambering failed. I finally got all my parts and stuff back, and after a while I sent the action and the reamer (re-sharpened) off again to another gunsmith to chamber it in 323 Hollis, using a different barrel. It's almost finished. The point is that the 8x68 is practically a wildcat, and the brass is difficult to get. The 323 Hollis uses 308 Norma brass which is readily available, and feeds well, requiring no modifications to the action. I chose to ingore the 8x68 once and that's what I would do now, even with knowledge gained in the meantime. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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The 8x68 is quite popular here in South Africa and also in Namibia. The ballistics are impressive (200gr @ 2900 fps) and I would probably look at it over a 300 WM if I started over, but it's great not to buy pricey dies and brass. I'd say it's a great alternative in the gap between a .30 and .33 Magnum. The main factor for me was the relative scarcity of 8mm bullets (particularly high BC stuff), even here where 8mm chamberings are quite popular. There really just isn't as much choice as a .30 or .33. Now a .30 on the 8x68 case would be a plan and it's been done. The RWS brass (experience from other calibers) is great and I like the beltless design. The 8x68 case is the basis for the Boo-Boo line of long range chamberings that have done some good things in recent years. | |||
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A friend of mine has a german wthby in 8x68. The barrel is fairly light and it snaps pretty good. I also used a namibian friends 8x68 on a mauser action. I shot eland,kudu,hartebeast,warthog and gemsbok with it. The brush would look painted with blood after hitting something with it. Some of the most gory bloodtrails I've ever seen. But, animals ran about the same distance as when shot with a 45/70, .375 H&H, 30-06 etc. | |||
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Ihave an 8x68S in a sauer 90 and could not be happier. Brass and ammo are not that hard to come by in the states. All you need is a little patience and keep your eyes open. I took Eland, Bushbuck, Blue Wildebeast, Kudu, Waterbuck, and Zebra with it in June and could not have been happier. Load was a Barnes X 200 gr at 2900 and it worked like a champ. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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I used my PH's 8x68 a couple time in Namibia. I liked it very much. I looked hard at having a Ruger re-barreled/opened up to it. But after looking at the availability of reloading components I decided against it and went with a 338/06 instead. 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
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Forgive me but I just love these posts: 8x68S brass is not hard to come by in the USA! then the funny part, you just have to keep your eyes open and have patience... forgive me but is that not a conttradiction in terms when it comes to the concept of availablity ? When last did you or I for that matter just walk into any gunshop and pick up a pack of 8x68 brass off the shelf. And if you want a healthy dose of sticker shock wait for that single pack of RWS 8x68's that sometimes shows up at that speciality "euro based' gunshop. It does not happen in Canada, it does not happen in the USA and for that matter it did not happen in South Africa either. I have been shooting 8x68's and the 6.6x68 for close on 40 years now and of all my guns this caliber has been of the more expensive habits to feed. | |||
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Alf, You are right. About a month or so after I sent my rilfe off to get rebarreled, Huntingtons started stocking Norma and RWS cases for the 8x68 on a regular basis. When I talked to them before I was told they were always special runs or shipments. Just goes to show my luck goes! 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
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At the time I was making my decision to go with the 8x68S or not, the supply of brass dried up everywhere I searched, including Huntingtons. I was told that RWS was not going to import the brass anymore, and the same for their whole line of brass, including the 9.3x64. There was no clue at the time that Norma would import some. It looked like a dead end. Obviously things change, but at the time there was no indication that it would be for the better, and there is presently not enough reason to convince me that it won't go away again. Component supply is only one issue. Finding a suitable action/rifle is another. Besides, we have a readily available and better alternative, the 338 WM. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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Kalbluewy In my opinion you gunsmith owes you a barrel. He obviously did not know what he was doing & had NO experience machining a quality stainless steel. So when he screwed up he blamed it on the barrel to save face & & money. I have threaded & chambered over 100 LW SS LW50 barrels & had no problems. Feel free to pm me if you wish. Doug  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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While brass is scarce you can buy factory ammo. Norma loads 200 grain a-frames and i have bought them from several of the online big names,natchez,midway,siclair etc. | |||
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If at the time you commission the build you lay in a couple hundred pieces of brass you will be set for a long time. The RWS brass is long lived. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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The 8x68S is one of the cartridges I am very much considering for my next gun. Think it fits perfectly between my 6.5-06 and my 375 Ruger  | |||
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I second what Doug says. Your barrel wrecker likely did not used a pumped oil system, ran the spindle speed too slow, not enough cutting oil, work hardened the barrel, and dulled the reamer. Ya cannot hunt and peck with SS, gotta be a little aggressive and flood it with coolant/oil. I love LW barrels, they machine and chamber beautifully. Just do this: (Coolant flow reduced for the photo to save the camera)  | |||
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I own a HEym Express Light in 8x68S. My favorite rifle for hunting boars in Europe. Great results with 200gr A-Frame and KJGS and Blaser CDP! | |||
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Doug and woodhunter, Now, with hindsight, I think you are both right. It was an unplesant experience. The gunsmith did blame the barrel steel. He sorta made it right, but didn't offer to replace the barrel. Instead, he offered to send everything back to me, with no charge for the other work he had done in trueing the action. Along with that he informed me that he would no longer be doing work for me in the future. The barrel maker made some offers to resolve the matter, which I thought at the time were in good faith. So, I had the action and barrel sent to LW. As it turned out, the terms of resolution became so convoluted and unworkable, that I finally asked for the whole project be returned to me. LW did refund the price of the barrel, and kept the barrel. Dave at PTG resharpened the reamer at no charge. So, I suffered little actual loss in money. But there was dissappointment, and the loss of a good relationship with the gunsmith. It didn't have to be the way it turned out, and appeared to happen that way because of some sort of hard headedness that I didn't understand. The work he had done in the past was plenty satisfactory. I had two other LW stainless blanks, and sold them on GB. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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The 8x68 is a wonderful cartridge, power and precision. Mine is handloaded with 200grain Swift A-Feame. | |||
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| One of Us |
Good on the gunsmith's part, he likely realized he was over his head. Some of us old useless guys spent a lifetime in real machine shops and learned the ins and outs of stainless steel and some nasty stuff like hastelloy. A shame there is not a good seminar type class on serious chambering, there is a lot of stuff we old farts use that makes it real easy. Pumped coolant/oil is a real important item, it lets you run the reamers at the designed speeds and produce a good chamber. I use a mix of 25 per cent water and 75 percent heavy duty soluble oil with extreme pressure additives. Some guys go to a straight premium cutting oil. I like the water/soluble mix as the water aids in cooling. I run around 400 to 500 RPM and can cut a chamber in less than 5 minutes. A couple more tips: Ya gotta havbe a pumped system, rotary union below:  I use screw retained pilot bushing type reamers and modify the screw head, those little file cuts triple the coolant flow. Snap ring retained bushings restrict coolant flow.  | |||
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Some years ago Harald Wolf (Hatari Times) built a 8x68 Cape Rifle using a 98 Mauser action and a 29 inch barrel from a 7x57 Mauser that he rebored and rechambered. I will look up the article and see what he says about feeding modifications. | |||
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The 8x68S was for the longest time a South West Africa ( Namibia) "standard". It was as if every farmer of German descent had a "Acht mal Acht und sestig" and they were for the most built in standard Mauser actions, some were factory guns like the Josef Kettner guns, some were Model 66 Mausers but the customs built in house had one perculiarity, very long slim barrels, Not 26 inches but 28 and even 30 inch barrels, something akin to the Afrika Model Mausers. You could find ammo and guns at all of the old time big name gunstores in South West. From Karasburg "Handelshuis " co-op in Karasburg in the south through Rosenthal in Windhoek up to Umaruru in the Northwest. The Germans of South West loved their 8x68's and used them much like one would a 300 Win Mag. | |||
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To me this is an interesting thread, as we don't see very much on AR about the 8x68 or 8mm Remington magnum. I would like to read the opinions and experiences of those who have used the large 8mm's and the .300 magnums and ask whether the 8mm's are any better than the .300's and is there any notable differnce in the performance on game. Thanks. Joe | |||
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Steve Barnett has a really nice 8x68s for sale made by SABI rifles in south africa | |||
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There is no practical or real difference between the modern 300 and the 8x68S ( I shoot both) and I believe that is why the 8x68S has never taken on in the USA and is practically a proprietary cartridge elsewhere. The reality is simple, with the expense and relative availability of components between the two as well as the availability of factory guns in terms of manufacturers chambering for it the 300's win hands down. Whilst the 8x68 looks and sounds sexy and it's little sister the 6.5x68 even sexier ( just shy in looks to the 300 H&H) looks alone is not enough to warrent manufacturers to suddenly start mass producing this cartridge. | |||
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I'm useing a Mauser 66 in 8x68s. Bullet is Blaser CDP 196 gr. with 3117 feet/m. It's a great munition , the power and the precision are most than convincing. I tried calibers from .22-.500 Nitro Express. YES, I NOW! in Europe i dont need a .500 NE. But the 8x68S is "ower the top" .  Till I have this rifle, I sold all my other rifles, except the 6,5X57. Believe me! If you want a GOOD allrounder, you must have a 8x68S. BUT the bullet MUST be the Blaser CDP!! The other bullets aren't built to the velocity of the 8x68S. Regards: Andy | |||
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If a smith can't manage to get an M98 to feed 8x68s, I wouldn't trust him to try and get an M98 to fedd std.length belted magnum [or H&H rounds] either,....The problem is certainly not with the geometry/dimensions of the 8x68s case.  | |||
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Trax, I can appreciate what you are saying. It is a proven fact that some gunsmiths have the talent and can get the M98 to feed some cartridges it was clearly not designed for. Look at it from the point of view of an inexperienced customer. Many gunsmiths say one thing, and cannot do what they say they can do. I at least have enough experience to have seen that. Therefore, taking the leap of faith, with money and metal, is all on the customer. I have been dissappointed once too many times to do it again, if i can avoid it. i recently made another mistake, of trust, but that's another story. When I decided to go with the 323 Hollis, the action I chose fed flawlessly, with no gunsmith modifications necessary. I've had some setbacks due to gunsmith type problems, but last week I finally received the barreled action back from PacNor. It took six months this time. I immediately packeged it up again, and the stock too, and sent them off for bedding. Once I get it back, I'll send the barreled action and rings off to Birdsong for Black T. Hopefully, before summer is over, I'll give a range report, and cronograph report. I still think it's a clone of the 8x68 ballistically, without all the gunsmith hassle. I have a variety of 220 gr 8mm bullets, which I'm anxious to try. I haven't counted lately, but as I recall, somehow I acquired maybe 1500 - 2000 8mm 220 gr bullets. Most of them are the Hornadys. I think it's gonna be a great combo. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Dont I know that! ...If I was seriously in the market for a no-fuss[HQ] 8x68s rig,I wouldn't screw around, Id order an Echols&Co. LEGEND. | |||
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Well, as I've heard, said by oil executives, re oil extraction from Alaska's north slope, pratically any problem can be solved by throwing enough money at it. Despite several setbacks, I could complete several projects for the price of one Echols Legend. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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I have a 8x68 barrel for my Mauser M03 - still need to shoot it though. Too busy at work. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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This has been an interesting read. I have been shooting an 8x60 magnum bomb for a while making brass from 06 and lucky to have purchased some from Quality Cartridge as well. I was contemplating opening mine to 8x68 but have hesitated because it is so accurate now I don't want to screw it up. If LW has barrels I may switch and go with a new build. /98's seem to be abundant enough and looking at mine there is lots of room to fit. 280 Ross (mythical at best) can be used and 300 HH can be used to make that if required so it seems to be a breeze. The last RWS ammo I saw was running 80 per box. Frank | |||
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