What do you want a hunting bullet to do?

21 October 2011, 11:49

scubapro

First criteria from choosing a bullet, to tesiting it on paper and then on the hunts:

Having good technical data for my needs (BC, weight...)
Beeing accurate on the range
Kill on the spot
Don´t make to much red jelly on the meat
Having exited the games body if possible

last criteria would be the price - for hunting amo, you need only a few rounds, but then it counts. For the range you could take cheaper bullets which are "only accurate"..., but not on hunting...!

21 October 2011, 14:08

Donald Nelson

I shoot what I hunt with year round so being affordable is important to me. That don't mean cheap. I have no problem paying for Nosler BT's to shoot year round. I want an accurate bullet that offers a pass through and lots of terminal damage and I don't care if the insides are jello. I don't eat the innards anyhow. Actually I give most of my deer away as I have grown very tired of it.

Nosler BT's in a medium bore has always done the trick for me.

21 October 2011, 18:18

butchloc

radar guided, heat seeking

21 October 2011, 21:21

kjjm4

-Reliably kill the game it's intended for use on
-Repeatably hit where I'm aiming.
-Not blow the animal to smithereens (assuming I want to eat it).

That's about it.

21 October 2011, 21:29

PatagonHunter

Hi,

Only and all the Nosler Partition do!!!

PH

21 October 2011, 21:57

458Win

While we are wishing, how about a Ted Nugent bullet that Kills it and Grills it.

21 October 2011, 23:23

wasbeeman

Reasonably accurate and dead nuts reliable.
I'm not gonna try some trick pony bullet on a live animal because it gives me a .25" smaller group than a hunting bullet. 'course this will bring screams from the folks that swear Grandpa Pettybone kilt all of his game, up to T-Rex, with a light for calibre, hollow point target bullet. Traveling at warp speed, of course.

22 October 2011, 03:07

Grumulkin

3
All of the above bullets were from loads developed with optimal accuracy as the preferred criteria and were recovered from animals so obviously the animals died. Also, since the bullets were recovered, it's evident they didn't exit the animal.

Tell me, kind sirs, which one(s) failed?

22 October 2011, 04:22

wildcat junkie

After hitting the animal W/1 MOA accuracy I want it to look like this.....(139gr .284 Interbond)

after penetrating 36" of bone, muscle & vital organs.

22 October 2011, 05:46

chuck375

After breaking the shoulder, busting up both lungs and penetrating another 3 feet of bear ending up in the far hide, I want it to look like this ...

22 October 2011, 07:40

mho

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
What do you want a hunting bullet to do?
...
Primarily
1 Kill the animal quickly
2 Be accurate
3 Be high quality with consistent results.
Secondarily
1 High BC if possible to shoot flat and maintain energy
2 have a wide range of functional impact velocity

All of the above really - and possibly in that order - although not all criteria matter for all hunting situations (e.g. high BC is pretty irrelevant at short range).

It sure would also be nice if bullets would always exit and leave a good blood trail! Sadly, just like the bullet that always kills instantly, this seems to be an illusion. I guess this would also stop us from having interesting arguments about what expansion attributes our various bullets display... Quite apart from different attributes being right for different kinds of game.

- mike

22 October 2011, 07:43

mho

quote:
Originally posted by 458Win:
While we are wishing, how about a Ted Nugent bullet that Kills it and Grills it.

- mike

22 October 2011, 12:17

Donald Nelson

quote:
Originally posted by mho:
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
What do you want a hunting bullet to do?
...
Primarily
1 Kill the animal quickly
2 Be accurate
3 Be high quality with consistent results.
Secondarily
1 High BC if possible to shoot flat and maintain energy
2 have a wide range of functional impact velocity

All of the above really - and possibly in that order - although not all criteria matter for all hunting situations (e.g. high BC is pretty irrelevant at short range).

It sure would also be nice if bullets would always exit and leave a good blood trail! Sadly, just like the bullet that always kills instantly, this seems to be an illusion. I guess this would also stop us from having interesting arguments about what expansion attributes our various bullets display... Quite apart from different attributes being right for different kinds of game.

- mike

Not sure I agree 100% here. Use enough gun and pick your shot and bullets exit. Maybe not on very large heavy boned and thick skin game but guys having trouble getting a bullet to exit medium,thin skinned game should look at their caliber, bullet weight, and shot placement. The most I have ever recovered is piece of a jacket stuck near the exit wound of a deer shot at about 350 yards. DRT but closest thing to bullet failure in some folk eyes I have ever had. Switched from 165 grain BT's to 180's after that for hillside to hillside shooting in my .300Win.

30-30, 260 Rem, 8x57, 30-06, .308 .300Win 7.5x55 Never a problem.

.243 first lost deer ever with a centerfire rifle. Lots of blood for several hundred yards till it dried up .257 AI second lost deer with a centerfire rifle found after Yotes found it. No blood, deer got into jaggers so thick I could not see it. Actually bounced another doe when looking for it and thought maybe I had missed it. I am sure if this deer had been shot in more open ground it would have been found as it was found within 20 yards of where it was when I hit it. Again picking your shot. I should not have shot it so close to thick cover with such a small caliber.

22 October 2011, 12:33

Gerard

How about an intelligent bullet that reacts appropriately to the impact speed and the medium it penetrates, to deliver a good result repeatably.

A good result is assured expansion from low impact speed, the assurance that it will not turn to dust at high impact speeds, linear penetration, the ability to break bones and continue penetrating, meat damage confined to the wound channel and the highest probability of an exit hole.

22 October 2011, 13:37

mho

quote:
Originally posted by Donald Nelson:
... Use enough gun and pick your shot and bullets exit. Maybe not on very large heavy boned and thick skin game but guys having trouble getting a bullet to exit medium,thin skinned game should look at their caliber, bullet weight, and shot placement.

One thing about observed bullet performance: it seems to vary so much and so unpredictably, that it is entirely possible that two hunters can cite from totally different experience and thus come to different conclusions.

I hear what you are saying about caliber and bullet weight selection. But I am still not convinced it is a simple as just that.

We shoot a lot of roe deer over here - a pretty small deer with thin skin and flimsy bones. A lot (most?) of these deer are shot with calibers which are really a tad large for the job (you never know when a pig will show up...) like the 7x64 or the .30-06. Even with broadside shots, it still occasionally happens that a bullet does not exit. Here is a Hornady 160 grs Interbond shot broadside on a roe at less than 100 yds from a 7x64, and although that is way more caliber and bullet than required, it still did not manage to exit (the deer died, though).

As far as bullet placement is concerned, I have to plead guilty as charged. It is not my favorite shot, but if a full frontal shot is all that a critter presents before I can expect it to run off, I normally take it. Even on roe with calibers as "over size" as the .30-06, it is extremely rare that I get a bullet to exit on a full frontal shot.

- mike

22 October 2011, 16:55

Grumulkin

quote:
Originally posted by Donald Nelson:
The most I have ever recovered is piece of a jacket stuck near the exit wound of a deer shot at about 350 yards. DRT but closest thing to bullet failure in some folk eyes I have ever had. Switched from 165 grain BT's to 180's after that for hillside to hillside shooting in my .300Win.

The deer was DRT; I wouldn't call that bullet failure and I wouldn't have switched.

I have some Berdan primed Argentine military 308 cartridges with soft nosed bullets I bought cheap many years ago. I've taken 3 deer using them at ranges from about 6 yards to 80 yards. All were chest shots, none of the bullets exited and in each case the deer was DRT. I'm quite happy with such performance.

22 October 2011, 18:13

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by mho:
quote:
Originally posted by Donald Nelson:
... Use enough gun and pick your shot and bullets exit. Maybe not on very large heavy boned and thick skin game but guys having trouble getting a bullet to exit medium,thin skinned game should look at their caliber, bullet weight, and shot placement.

One thing about observed bullet performance: it seems to vary so much and so unpredictably, that it is entirely possible that two hunters can cite from totally different experience and thus come to different conclusions.

I hear what you are saying about caliber and bullet weight selection. But I am still not convinced it is a simple as just that.

We shoot a lot of roe deer over here - a pretty small deer with thin skin and flimsy bones. A lot (most?) of these deer are shot with calibers which are really a tad large for the job (you never know when a pig will show up...) like the 7x64 or the .30-06. Even with broadside shots, it still occasionally happens that a bullet does not exit. Here is a Hornady 160 grs Interbond shot broadside on a roe at less than 100 yds from a 7x64, and although that is way more caliber and bullet than required, it still did not manage to exit (the deer died, though).

As far as bullet placement is concerned, I have to plead guilty as charged. It is not my favorite shot, but if a full frontal shot is all that a critter presents before I can expect it to run off, I normally take it. Even on roe with calibers as "over size" as the .30-06, it is extremely rare that I get a bullet to exit on a full frontal shot.

- mike

Holy crap! No wonder it didn't exit. I've never seen a bullet expand that large. To me, that would be serious over expansion. On a big animal I'd be very concerned about penetration.

22 October 2011, 18:50

Grumulkin

If the bullet goes through and doesn't expand we're unhappy.

If the bullet goes through and ruins too much meat we're unhappy.

If the bullet breaks apart but the animal is DRT we're unhappy.

If the bullet doesn't go through but the animal dies that's apparently bad too.

And now a bullet can over expand even though it didn't come apart?

You guys must be smoking some good stuff.

22 October 2011, 18:53

Gerard

If a bullet/cartridge combination does not exit on a broadside shot, I consider it inadequate for the species hunted.

22 October 2011, 19:31

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by Grumulkin:
If the bullet goes through and doesn't expand we're unhappy.

If the bullet goes through and ruins too much meat we're unhappy.

If the bullet breaks apart but the animal is DRT we're unhappy.

If the bullet doesn't go through but the animal dies that's apparently bad too.

And now a bullet can over expand even though it didn't come apart?

You guys must be smoking some good stuff.

Yes, I'm very unreasonable. I like a bullet that mushrooms 1.5-2x it's diameter and retains at least 60% of it's weight in moderate velocity cartridges. If I'm using the correct bullet weight and hit them in the right spot, I will have good performance.

22 October 2011, 20:08

mho

quote:
Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Holy crap! No wonder it didn't exit. I've never seen a bullet expand that large. To me, that would be serious over expansion. On a big animal I'd be very concerned about penetration.

I don't necessarily disagree. We used to have to worry about jacket/core separation, but bonded bullets took care of that. These days, some bonded bullets tend to deliver this very high expansion. Running the risk of stepping on somebody's toes, I have also seen very high expansion from bullets such as the Norma Oryx or (some of the) Woodleighs.

Clearly, we are not talking bullet failure here, but perhaps other bullets might get the nod for heavier game?

- mike

22 October 2011, 20:21

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by mho:

Clearly, we are not talking bullet failure here, but perhaps other bullets might get the nod for heavier game?

- mike

Agreed.

22 October 2011, 20:42

woods

200 gr Accubond, Elk 150 yds, 30-06, 2700 fps MV

23 October 2011, 06:08

George Semel

I'm pretty happy with the performance I get out of the bullets I shoot these days. I tend not to get all tied up picking nits in my coming old age. I just go with the construction of the bullet for the game I am going to hunt, for example, I been hunting with a 7 mm Remington Mag for the last 6 seasons. My rifle likes 150 gr Bullets, so that is what I shoot, If I am hunting White Tails, 150 gr Speer SP or 154 gr Hornaday or Federal Fusions or Blue Box will do just about perfect. Going for Elk then a little more bullet is called for Nosler Partitions and Swift A Frames is what I go to, having gotten around to a Barnes X yet but I will. Now in the pass I have shot every thing with the said cartridge using 175 gr Nosler Partitions. Bullets in general these days are so good, there is really no really bad choice as long as the bullet you choose is intended for big game hunting to begin with. Nosler Partitions will always be the Standard by which all bullets are judged performance wise, some are a tad better at a cost + money wise and some work just great with in limits that are dirt cheap. A 120 gr Speer SP in 6.5mm for 260 and 6.5 x 55 comes to mind, just about perfection on deer. Dittos for bulk 120 gr Remington Core lokt. About as cheap a good bullet as you can get.

23 October 2011, 06:33

boom stick

SRose got a deer today with the 130 grain Raptor out of a 308 at 250 yards. He got what I want out of a hunting bullet. Deep 30" of penetration, straight line penetration even going through bones, DRT, He even posted the video of the shot. Not a broadside shot obviously and recovered the bullet under the hide.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...581001561#4581001561

23 October 2011, 23:29

Gerry

quote:
I'm pretty happy with the performance I get out of the bullets I shoot these days. I tend not to get all tied up picking nits in my coming old age. I just go with the construction of the bullet for the game I am going to hunt .....

George,

We need to sit down sometime & have a Beer together ..... I guess we could talk bullets, too but that's not the driving force of my hunting passion, either.

Like yourself I use what's required to get the job at hand accomplished but sure don't worship at the altar of "it's just gotta be this bullet or my life doesn't function" because they're the Holy Grail today, either.

24 October 2011, 01:29

Ken Cline

Don't have to worry about performance issues since switching to TTSX bullets. They are flawless every time.

24 October 2011, 10:50

Wstrnhuntr

Ive never had to worry about performance with cup and core slugs. Just use what is appropriate for your quarry and enjoy.

I too like to be able to practice a lot.. So I aint throwing down a buck per slug to punch paper or slay beer cans and I like to be able to hunt with the same load I practice with..

Long as you feed enough slug for your quarry, Remington core locks, Hornadys, Speers and so on work just fine.. Call me cheap, I dont care. But if I need more than a good heavy for caliber cup and core slug to kill ANYTHING, then it must be time to load up some solids..
Then again my average rifle only runs @ about 2700-2900 fs max, I dont do shoulder shots and I got no plans to go to Africa, so bullet integrity aint that hard for me to get..

I have to admit though, accubonds are nice bullets..

24 October 2011, 13:37

Trax

I dont see why bullet integrity should be more important in Africa than anywhere else in the world.

24 October 2011, 21:22

larrys

OK, here goes. I want a bullet that will exit my rifle, whichever one it is, at the exact speed listed in whichever is my favorite loading manual. I want it to follow the book trajectories all the time. Upon beginning impact, I want the bullet to sense the thichness and toughness of the skin and automatically adjust for that before passing through. Once through the skin, I again want it to adjust the wall thickness and toughness for whether it contacted bone or not. Once past the bone, I want it to explode and make goo of the innards before either traveling to the spine to cause immediate CNS trauma and have the animal drop DRT. Then it should lodge in the off-side skin so I can pull it out and see how pretty it looks.

I will still do the field dressing, of course. Until that bullet arrives, almost any bullet will suffice given the improvements that have been made in recent decades.

25 October 2011, 04:10

sambar02

I want it to go where i point it,leave a fair hole going in a bigger hole coming out,,i like to let in a lot of air and let a lot of blood out,makes recovery in the thick stuff a lot easier.

25 October 2011, 19:45

Wstrnhuntr

quote:
Originally posted by Trax:
I dont see why bullet integrity should be more important in Africa than anywhere else in the world.

I never said it wasn't important elsewhere, just that its not that difficult to obtain. But when your going up against the biggest baddest critters on the planet that does imply a bit more of a need.

26 October 2011, 05:18

I want my bullets to expand FAST so they work on smaller animals, also doing a lot of internal damage on all animals, then drive in DEEP, (i prefer them to exit) so they work perfectly on bigger animals too!

That's why i prefer NP's to all others, as i can depend on them to work EVERY time for me!

DM

26 October 2011, 07:21

scottfromdallas

quote:
Originally posted by DM:
I want my bullets to expand FAST so they work on smaller animals, also doing a lot of internal damage on all animals, then drive in DEEP, (i prefer them to exit) so they work perfectly on bigger animals too!

That's why i prefer NP's to all others, as i can depend on them to work EVERY time for me!

DM

I'm with on that. The Nosler Partition is still the best all around bullet made in my opinion.

26 October 2011, 08:48

boom stick

The Raptor acts like a mono metal partition but looks like a ballistic tip.

26 October 2011, 09:49

Trax

quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
The Raptor acts like a mono metal partition but looks like a ballistic tip.

The nolser E-Tip is probably the closest thing to the concept of[acting & looking like] a BT-monometal-NP.
(The Raptor being brass multi-banded & unable to have it petals bent back around its shank)

26 October 2011, 11:34

Gunsmoker

For deer I want a bullet that expands fully and makes it to the far side, exit optional. A 150 gr. bullet, Sierra Gamekings or Hornady SST being perfect fired from a 308 or 30-06. I once really liked the Nosler BT but you characters beat that drum so hard it is no longer such a fast expander. I like bullets that drop deer when well placed, blood trailing is for all you tough bullet guys. For bigger game Nosler Partitions are just fine.

27 October 2011, 17:51

465H&H

I want a bullet that kills cleanly, humanely and quickly from any angle or range. I really don't care if it exits or not (except on DG in a herd situation)or what it looks like afterwards.

465H&H

28 October 2011, 03:28

Atkinson

I want to big holes, one in each side, an intrance and an exit hole..in case he doesn't fall at the shot, and runs 50 to 150 yards and they actually do that you know except on the internet where DRT is a password..I always worry that a DRT bullet is a bit soft..

Soooo two holes mean a good blood trail and when he runs out of gas he is there to take home. Its not as fast but its a sure thing in my Opine.