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I have been looking at a Sako 75 synthetic stainless or a Remington 700 AWR stainless(Rems custom shop). Both in 338 Win Mag. Both feel good and shoulder fine. Both are about the same price. Any suggestions or ideas.  | ||
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hglass, Long ago I knew there were better designs than the Remington 722-700's. Since then they have not improved them and in fact they are worse. There is no reason to buy a gun with brazed together bolt parts or a trigger that may be dangerous. Sako guns have always been made quite well. Neither however are my top choices. | |||
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Both are good rifles. but, I give the edge to the Sako, naturally.  Sako's are the best out of the box rifles in the world. IMO..sakofan..good luck!! | |||
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What would be your top choice?? | |||
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Myself, I'd take the Remington. But then again, I *like* Remington's as much Savage99 *dislikes* them... Most everything I have is Remington, and I've NEVER had a "safety malfunction", or a bolt handle come off, or any of the other horror stories. This after having dozens of rifles and sending untold thousands of rounds through them.... | |||
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They are both good rifles, however I would rethink the caliber. 338 Win Mag has to be one of the nastiest recoiling rifle cartridges out there. I would recommend going out and shooting a 338 before you go and buy one. -Spencer | |||
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If you can handle a .300 Winnie, you're good to go on the .338. In fact, I prefer the recoil (if that's possible  ) of the .338 over the .300. In my opinion, the Sako is a far better rifle than the Remington, hands down. I could be biased though as the one Remington I had was a POS and Remington jerked me around on fixing it. That left a bad taste in my mouth. | |||
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hglass, Since nobody can deny that Remingtons go bang it really gets down to features that I enjoy. Most bolt action rifles are reliable enough and can shoot well. The primary thing I like in an action is that it seem like a good piece of machinery. This is not at all necessary and others such as the Savage 110 series and Remingtons can work it's just that I have a choice. My dad owned and ran a tool and die machine shop and I worked in it for a while. He did aircraft work for P&W, Sikorsky and others. I learned what fine machinery was. My first new rifle was a Remington 722 as everyone was talking about the new 222 that had just come out. After a few years with that stamped out device I bought myself a new M70 in 1957. I have M70's, FN Mausers along with fine Schuetzen rifles and a drilling etc. and now three new Kimbers. That's what I like. | |||
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Quote: Don, See if the below looks familiar: Your comments are really out of line on a thread like this. Hglass is admiring a superb example of riflemaking. Since Remington rifles have functioned for literally hundreds of thousands of hunters/shooters for well over 100 years I suggest you vent your opinon where it's appropiate. You handed-out this original(but slightly modified) piece of un-requested advice. --- There is an old Southern phrase some of you might find interesting; Un-requested advice is only important to the fool running his mouth. | |||
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Hey Hglass, I can't give you an experienced comment on the Sako because I've never had one. Have seen some at the Range and they seemed to shoot quite well As for the excellent "Made-in-the-USA" Remingtons, they are what ALL other rifles are judged by. They have the very best, SAFEST, and quickest Lock-Time of any mechanical factory designed Trigger on the market. The barrels are always accurate and if at some later date you decide to change calibers, any GunSmith worth using can put another barrel in it for you. Two of my rifles are out of the Custom Shop and both have been the kind of rifles we all desire to buy, accurate to a fault with multiple Loads and rugged to the extreme. Saeed had a thread on the Gunsmithing Board where he "finally" had an Extractor fail on one of his Remingtons after an estimated 40,000 shots. I've NEVER had one fail. That said, anything man-made can have a problem. It is just that problems seem to be significantly less common among the typically accurate Remington rifles. | |||
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Buy the Sako and then you'll have something you can be proud to own instead of telling everyone your rifle hasn't broke yet, therefore it's a good rifle. Terry | |||
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I know a sniper that uses a 700. If he trusts his on several very dangerous missions in Iraq, I can certainly trust mine while out hunting. They are both fine rifles but, I would have too give the edge to the Remington. In my experience w/ pricing rifles, the high-end Remingtons were priced like a low-end Sako therefore, you get alot more bang for your buck w/ the Rem. I believe the Sako rifles are definitly among the best but, they are far overpriced. Several of the cheaper rifles will perform the same for a price difference you can invest towards quality optics. It is kind of like buying a Toyota 4-Runner loaded out or, the Lexus SUV. The lexus probably won't out perform the Toyota or last longer but, it sure does cost a heck of alot more. Good Luck! Reloader | |||
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The snipers were issued the Remingtons. They had no choice as to rifles. I know a retired sniper. He used a Remington in SE Asia with a Ranging scope. He does not own a Remington now but owns other brands. | |||
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A .338 should be a CRF rifle, no execeptions! | |||
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Dunno if they come in your preferred calibre, but I'd buy a Ruger!! (and I've owned Rems, Wins, and have mates with Sako's) | |||
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I would buy the SAKO, But a super grade Model 70 wuld be my preference. But thats just a mater of taste. I wouldnot wory abit about the recoil, in my standard Moel 70 I can usuly get 20 rounds out before recoil starts to bug me. How ever if he rifle does not fit you properly the recoil might become a problem...tj3006 | |||
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Both are very good rifles and I own both, but my Sako is my pet and so I would go for the Sako. | |||
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Pick the one that feels and points the best for you. shopcartracing I guess you need to shoot some real boomers if you think the 338wm is a nasty kicker. | |||
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I owned a Sako 75 in 30-06 (stainless barrel, walnut stock) and it was a real looker -too bad I started shooting with it! The screws holding the action to the stock were notorius, loosened themselves up after a day hunting so the whole piece of crap almost fell apart. Later on the barrel started "moving" so that the crosshairs of the scope had to be up in the righthand corner of the reticle. Unbef-ckinglievable! And that was before the Italians took ownership. I wouldn´t buy a Rem either -I like the bolt handles staying attached to the gun. | |||
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Horseshit, mines's a Savage stainless that I've had for close to fifteen years and been used on moose, elk and bears with the occasional deer as well. The only rifle I've ever owned that jammed or gave me problems was a POS Model 70 and it didn't take me long to get rid of it. How the cartridge gets from the magazine to the chamber is mental masturbation for the most part and not worth worrying about. To answer the original question based on my own experiences, I'd go with the Sako hands down over the Remington.  | |||
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Well, I enjoy these threads! I own a pile of Remingtons and a larger pile of Sakos. My personal preference for hunting rifles is the Sako. It is cheap/easy to turn a Remington into a very precise varmint rifle (more accessories available). Take both rifles and shoulder them with your eyes closed. Which fits your hands better? Which points more naturally for you? which trigger feels better? Which is easier for you to reload? You will find that the Sako wins, hands down, as my esteemed Canadian colleague mentions in the post immediately above mine. I have used a couple of Remingtons for hunting rifles. I put them in Sako style stocks from McMillan. Then they feel better. lawndart  | |||
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Of the two I'd pick the Sako but only because of the enormous amount of Remington quality issues I';ve read about lately...bolt handles, extractors, bad bluing, excess headspace, horrible customer service...and it seems the list goes on. A report or two can be pure Bullcrap.....but the list is now way too long. There needs to be some major changes at Remington. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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If I were going to buy a brand new .338 I would buy a stainless Winchester, work on the trigger and I'd cut the barrel back to 23'- 24"...but I like control round feed . I wouldn't buy a Sako with the key lock..of the two you mentioned...I'd go for the Remington and have the j-lock replaced. Unless the Sako doesn't have the key lock then I'd get the Sako. Sendero300>>>===TerryP | |||
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Definitely the Sako. While I don't think the Remington is the devil incarnate, it has had a lot of problems, and these are well documented. I have personally seen bolt handles come off. In just one recent thread, there wer over 10 first hand reports of this, not just anecdotes. Their have been deaths due to trigger/safety problems. While it is not an epidemic, it does happen. I would also strongly disagree with the statement that the barrels are always accurate. My finding over the last 8-10 years has been just the opposite. That may be true for some of the high end remingtons, but the several I have purchased have all shot like crap. I bought most of them to rebarrel to varmint wildcats, and in every case there was a drastic improvement in accuracy with installation of the new barre. Remington barrels almost have their own category on eBay there are so many of them, and an amazing number are from new or almost new rifles. It's not odd to find 20 for sale at any one time. Rugers get slammed constantly, and it is pretty tough to find one of their barrels listed. The price the remingtons bring is a small fraction of the price commanded by almost any other barrel. I think that is the free market's answer on their barrel quality. | |||
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Ditto unless you want less weight and less accuracy then go with the AWR. | |||
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If it were me, I'd buy the Sako. You'd get good use out of either rifle, but hell man, everybody owns a Remington. I'd buy the Sako just to be a little different. Tex Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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If you want genuine control of the round then a HS Precision style magazine is required. A staggered feed with claw extractor could hardly classed as having much control over the round. Mike | |||
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I have a Sako AV, I have never shot a new one, but I like that Sako 75 stock design. I have owned a Remington M700 Custom shop KS in 338. It was also a great rifle. Buy both! | |||
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I have a Sako Finnbear in 30/06 and a Heavy barrel Vixen in .223 the are both suberbly accurate rifles. I was fortuante to buy them new in 1970 at the Rod & Gun Clun at RAF Alconbury in England for around a $100 each. They are a lot more expensive now and I have read on this forum that since Beretta has bought Sako they are not as hight a quality as before. Someone else might comment more on this. In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 | |||
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Brystar: Although as a Dependent... I have a good old 30/30 Winchester that my dad bought just before we left England in 1966.....Also at the Good old Alconbury Rod & Gun Club...Dad was stationed there from May 63 to June 66.... Wish Dad would have bought a Sako Vixen Heavy Barrel back in 1966 also when he bought that 30/30... I learned to deer hunt with it, when we were shipped to Pope AFB at Ft. Bragg.... cheers seafire  | |||
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Seafire, I was at RAF Brize Norton in 67, moved to RAF Lakenheath when we gave Brize back to the RAF in 68. In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 | |||
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I mispoke earlier, I should have said Garcia not Beretta. Sorry, about that! In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 | |||
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I must have been on some thing thias AM iwas at Brize in 64, went to Lakenheath in 65. I am having a VERY bad day. In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 | |||
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Art: Remington barrels are popular on eBay because the action is popular to use for an accurate rifle. Who is going to use a Ruger M77 for a super accurate job? Why do all the gunsmiths who focus on accuracy jobs use Remingtons? Why do I use Remingtons, when I can get any rifle I want for free, shoot it for three months, and if I don't like it, return it to sender? I would get the Remington. Never had one that wouldn't shoot less than 1 MOA. Granted, I always bed them, but they do shoot. My .338 Win keeps them under an inch all day long. | |||
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The queston is not valid. How do you choose between a rotten apple and sour milk? | |||
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The .338WM is a pussycat. Try a .338RUM, or a .340 Weatherby without muzzle brake for comparison. As with most rifles starting with the .30-06 and up, recoil does not affect every shooter the same way. Also, a well designed and fitted stock reduces felt recoil. Other things that also help tame recoil are as follows: A well designed recoil pad on the stock, a heavier rifle/stock. | |||
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I'd choose the AWR although I don't like teflon coatings as they usually flake off but seeing how it's stainless I'd just hit it with the magic marker as looks aren't a factor here. The 75 isn't what made Sako famous. ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Personally.I would buy neither. Both are generally good rifles, but I think I'd take my chances with a Model 70 if I was buying another .338. I know the Model 70's also have weaknesses, but I just prefer the slickness of their feeding, and CRF, for follow-up shots in field positions. I have a Sako Safari-Grade .338 right now. I got it new in 1981...trading another Sako Safari-Gade in .375 H&H staight across for it. My Sako .338 is the most contankerous, picky big-bore for accuracy I have ever owned. It shoots Winchester 200 gr. Power-Points into 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Unfortunately, it won't shoot anything else it has yet been fed into even 2" groups at 100. Three inch groups are more the norm with all other ammo tried, and I've tried a lot! Honestly, I didn't buy a .338 Mag to shoot Winchester 200 gr. Power Points. I wanted to use heavier Nosler Partitions or some other 225gr.-250 gr. premium bullets. If I want 200 gr. bullets, I'll shoot them out of some kind of .300 Mag or even an '06, depending on the game and range. Although my Sako Safari Grade .375 H&H Mag was quite accurate, it was not as accurate as the original .375 H&H Magnum Mauser sporter I replaced it with, and my other new Sakos in the last 30 years (A Vixen .223 and a Finnbear .25-06) were clearly inferior to my other rifles in both trigger design and accuracy. So, with only 1 rifle out of my last four new Sakos meeting my personal standards, I'd go with something else, because I too have a choice. YMMV. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I have no experience with owning a Sako but folks I know that own one speak highly of them. For out of the box accuracy I don't think a cheap ugly Savage can be beat. I am a Rem fan myself. I heard all the horror stories but I never met anyone in my life who suffered a broken bolt handle. Rem has to have the best factory trigger and barrels on the market. My two trips down the Win 70 lane left me very disappointed in the accuracy department. I just purchased my wife a Kimber Montanna in 7mm 08. Out of the box the trigger and fit and finish is nice but we havent shot it yet. It doesnt make any sense to bash another mans goods. All rifles have there plus and minus features. It is your money buy what pleases you. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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I agree completely that it doesn't pay to bash another man's rifle. It certainly was not my intent to bash Sakos. I know many people own and love them. I also have a 7x33 L-42 Sako that I think the world of. I too have more than a few Remington's, even though I have had the bolt handle break off of ONE of the many I have owned over the years. I've also had the bolt handles break off of a number of $1,000 benchrest actions (all of one other make...nothing a little brazing couldn't fix, and did fix). Also, the last Winchester I bought (a .220 Swift HB varmint rifle) was somewhat disappointing for accuracy, but I bought it at a gun show from an acquaintance who I do not regard highly for his veracity and I have no idea what conditions of servitude it had experienced in his hands, despite what he told me. I do know he is infamous for loading his rifles WAY too hot. (I have long since traded it for a Browning.22-250 Medallion varmint model with BOSS which shoots pretty well). The main reasons I would buy a Winchester M70 if I was buying another .338 are that I could get a pre-'64 if I wanted to, I like the way Model 70's feed in hunting use, I have over 5 decades experience making them shoot, and I would feel no qualms whatsoever about altering a new one 'til it would shoot to suit my field needs, even if I had to take it into my shop downstairs and put a new barrel on it. I'd hate to do that with a brand new Sako. So, that's what I'D do. I have no bone to pick with anyone else's choice. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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