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Guys and girls, meet my new reason for living:    I am one happy man... Tim | ||
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What caliber is that? I hope its a 270 ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} as it should be. Kinda reminds me of a scissor jack, can you change a flat with it? I am joking, its not my cup of tea but any gun that furthers the shooting sports is ok with me. How much do they weigh and what does one run? | |||
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FullAuto, Congratulations! I am envious of very few individuals, but you are now among that few. Please give us a review of accuracy as well as your opinion of the stock, scope, and trigger. | |||
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full-auto: Are you Tim, Member No. 1, from over at full-auto.com? I remember seeing (or thinking I saw) Tim having gotten a rifle just like yours. And yes, there was dignified envy and appreciation for your fortunate situation by everyone who read the post. Good shooting! | |||
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The AI may be 'ugly', but it's designed purely for accuracy. Nothing on the rifle is there for appearance, and there isn't a more accurate rifle you can buy 'out of the box' in the world. It's only 24 degree's here today and I'm only in town for another 24 hours then off to other places. I won't get to shoot it until next weekend most likely. What I can tell you so far; 1) The stock fits you like a glove. By design this thing forces you to hold it the exact same way every time. Amazing. I own custom rifles that don't feel this good. 2) The trigger is un-real. It's a two stage trigger with a VERY crisp let-off around 1/2lbs. It's fully adjustable by the way. 3) The action is like silk. Savage, I believe your story. The AI can make a poor shooter a good one simply by its design. Imagine what an experienced shooter can do with one. A few guys on the snipershide.com have them, and they shoot 1/4 MOA well past 500 yards with them. I researched the rifle for about a year before buying it. I swear, I've not met a single AI owner who didn't like their rifle, not one. I've never heard of one that doesn't shoot well either. AI will take the rifle back if it doesn't shoot properly. Price? I got in before the price hike. I paid $2,300 for the rifle and the NightForce set me back another $1,200. The rifle alone now costs $2,800. Oh, and yes - I am "Tim" from Full-Auto.com, it's my board. Tim | |||
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Oh yes, and it's a .308. You can get them in just about any popular caliber though... if you want to pay for it. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} My next one will be a .338 AWP. But that will set me back $4,000 for the rifle alone. Maybe next year. Tim | |||
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Great rifle, hope your shoots as well as mine,its a 338Lap | |||
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Do they sell them in Australia in .338 lapua ?? Well done that rifle looks great you must be very happy !! | |||
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Sure looks all business! Enjoy your new toy! - mike | |||
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accuracy is as accuaracy does... glad you love it.. hope it shoots in the zeros... jeffe | |||
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Nice rifle. But here's my pick for balls-out accuracy Scoped:  Not scoped:  Designed by David Tubb, built by McMillan Brothers. Currently smashing records in NRA highpower. I'm currently saving pennies for the highpower version (w/o scope). $3900 + ~$600 for the aperture sights. | |||
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Orion, Cool looking paintball gun. All kidding aside, I believe these two rifles are designed for two different purposes. The Tubb's AR is designed to be a range queen/king. If you took that thing to the field, either hunting or sniping, it would be reduced to rubble in no time. The AI is designed to be beaten, bashed and abused yet still provide world class performance - which it does like no other rifle. Well, the TRG-22 by Sako is a tough contender for the AI as the most accurate practical rifle on the planet. The AI is currently mopping up in competition (tactical) and there is no end in sight. Tactical rifle matches tend to be more realistic in their courses of fire. They involve shooting up hill, down hill, shoot/no-shoot targets, firing from cover, etc. And I doubt 1/4 MOA is anything to laugh at, which the AI consistently produces and under the most extreme of conditions. If I shot in NRA matches I might consider a range queen/king gun. They would be fun to shoot, but I'm likely to break it. Tim | |||
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I wonder if AI sell there rifles in Australia ?? anyone know ?? | |||
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quote:www.accuracyinternational.com Email them and find out. Tim [ 11-13-2003, 05:04: Message edited by: full-auto ] | |||
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Tim, first of all, the TUBB 2000 is not an AR, nor is it an AR derivative. There is some resemblance, but it is superficial. David Tubb likes the no bedding design of the AR, but his rifle has a one piece receiver, not a two piece deal held together by pins. The TUBB 2000 is a bolt action rifle like no other. It is ALL metal. There isn't a single piece of plastic on it, at all. It doesn't get more rugged than that. The only reason the TUBB hasn't made inroads in the tactical shooting community is probably the same attitude you display. It's a "range queen", with no knowledge of its construction, design, or features. It was designed by a HP shooter, so how could he possible know how to design a rifle that will take on everything? Have you examined or shot a TUBB? I have, and it is not the flimsy contraption you seem to think it is. Here's some education on the TUBB 2000, from the master himself. TUBB 2000 concept None of the above is meant to denigrate your rifle. It is an outstanding example of a conventional bolt action. David Tubb, however, did not start with any preconcieved notions of what a bolt action rifle should look like. He only had preconcieved notions on how a bolt action rifle should perform. The end result is, IMO, the first significant advance in bolt action rifle design since the Mauser 98. | |||
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Interesting rifle, no doubt. Still not 'field grade' in my opinion... Has anyone outside of NRA rifle match shooters adopted it for real world applications? Just curious. Looks have very little to do with field performance or how well something is received in the tactical/practical shooting community - just look at the AI. As for the Tubb's being the first major leap in technology... well, here I soundly disagree. I think the AI with its aluminum chassis design - where the stock is incidental to the function of the rifle blows away anything else in terms of functional design currently on the market.  Tim [ 11-13-2003, 09:52: Message edited by: full-auto ] | |||
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Thanks for the link FL. | |||
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| <RomaRana> |
quote:I really really hope you did not take your AI out of its stock. I hope you wrote down the torque setting of the screws, and you have a good wrench like the anshutz one to get it back to where it was. | ||
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quote:Give it to kilgore lets see if he can break the bolt banging it on a tree. | ||
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What I know the most accurate "out of the box" is AMP TS DSR-1 rifle, accuracy could be 2mm center to center at 100m . . . http://www.amp-ts.com | |||
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quote:Good point, the TUBB 2000 has NO BEDDING. It does not matter how you put the rifle back together, POI does not shift. No way, no how. | |||
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quote:Interesting rifle. Looks very similar to the TUBB, but the bolt is positioned too far back to be useable during rapid fire. Highpower rifle matches in the US requires rapid fire, as well as single shots. Much like CISM. | |||
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quote:The AI design still relies on bedding between the action and the aluminum chassis. The TUBB, like Stoner's AR series, has NO BEDDING. No bedding is better than some bedding, when it comes to maintaining accuracy and repeatability. As for who's using the TUBB 2000 in tactical applications, I don't know. I bet David Tubb does, and I bet he wouldn't mind telling you. Why don't you e-mail him? You never answered my question about whether you have even held a TUBB 2000 in your hands..... | |||
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quote:There aren�t' any torque specs as taking the stock off has nothing to do with the action or the 'frame'. As I mentioned, the stock is incidental to the rifle and is really a disposable element of the rifle. Just two plastic halves held together with a few cross bolts. The 'frame' and action are for all practical purposes "one". Also, replacing the AI's barrel is so simple that even a hobbyist gun smith with the AI armorers tool can swap them out - no machining is required. Tim | |||
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quote:Nope... but I would like to. Have you ever held or fired an AI? Tim | |||
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quote:No, but I'm not denigrating it. As I said before, you have an outstanding rifle. You, OTOH immediately dismiss the TUBB as unsuitable for tactical and practical shooting without knowing anything about it. I bet that if you read David Tubb's essay on his rifle, your actual understanding of it increased from nothing to something. You did read it, didn't you? What I said is that David Tubb has a (for a bolt gun) radical design that is taking the HP world by storm. I also said that I strongly suspect that the tactical and practical shooting communities see it as a something useful only for high power because that's where it came from. A rather parochial and uninformed point of view. Still, enjoy your rifle. | |||
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Actually, this months issue of Rifle Shooter magazine (November/December) has an impressive article about the Tubb's 2000t (Tactical), authored of course by Mr. Tubb's himself. Seems he's very interested in the tactical rifle market and is making a play for it with this unique looking rifle. Check it out. www.rifleshootermag.com Tim | |||
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| <Scott S.> |
Full-auto, The AI is no doubt top of the line. I saw where the Royal Marines (UK) utilize them in .338. There was a Guns magazine article about a year ago on the AI in .308, and what impressed the hell out of me and something I will never forget, is the rifle shot sub .5 MOA out to 300 yards (less than 1.5 inch group @ 300 yds), with factory ammo and bullets weighing from 110 to 175 grains !!! I can not understand that, as bullets prefer a certain twist rate, and with that bullet weight spread, 110 to 175 and all printing .5 MOA. Where did you buy the rifle for 2400, I thought they were like 4500 a year ago. Thanks for the pics. That is one special rifle! By the way Mickey Fowler did the shooting test for the magazine article I'm referring to. And Mike Voight's team won the Snipers Challenge with an AI last year. | ||
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I bought it from Tac Pro (http://www.tacproshootingcenter.com) for that price. With the NightForce scope, bi-pod, rings and mount, and StarLight case, I paied $4,300 for the gun.  That's my last 200 yard target from Satruday. 5 shots into a 3/4" group using Winchester Supreme 168gr'ers. Besides non-match factory ammo, I haven't found anything it doesn't like. Federal Gold Medal, Winchester Supreme, Black Hills, you name it. All of it shoots 1" or less (usually less) at 200 yards. Tim | |||
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full auto, Is Malcolm Cooper's shop still turning them out? I have a friend there who's dropped off the radar. I have heard they're no longer in the Oak Ridge area. What's the scoop? My two cents - as someone familiar with both the tactical and competitive fraternities, I'd say we're comparing apples and oranges with the Tubb and the AI. YMMV, but the finest rifle in the world is always the one you have zeros for when you need it! | |||
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This AI just keeps shooting better and better! Here's a 1/4" group from 200 yards today. I found this old ammo made by Talon that is called "White Feather". It's a 175gr load that shoots very well, as evidenced by this group.  Tim | |||
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full-auto I have been shooting an AI for several years. They are certainly one of the most, if not the most, accurate factory rifles around. I knew Malcom Cooper and shot the prototype rifle many years ago. He flew into the country with it and we shot it at the Airport police range. The rifle was basicly the same, except that every edge on the stock was very sharp and the bolt operation was not as smooth as on the production rifles. He wrote down our comments and flew back to England. While for the last 20 years Federal Match has been the most consistant factory ammo, lot to lot, In my and several other AI rifles the Winchester 168gr. Ballistic Silvertip shoots as good or better than Federal Match. I also know the Tubb Family, having shot in tournaments with them. Not only was the father a great shot, but David Tubb is probably the best rifle shot in the history of mankind. Any rifle he makes is going to be one fine shooter I can asure you. | |||
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Here's a cool video. I was shooting at a 6" steel plate (about the size of a human head) at 300 yards with the AI. It's a close-up shot of the 175gr rounds finding their mark down range. http://www.full-auto.com/images/forums/Video/300_yard_ringer.wmv Tim | |||
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I gave up shooting at 200 yards a couple days ago. I'm shooting at my max range on my property right now, that being 300 yards. Here's one of my 300 yard groups from today. I'm getting the hang of this rifle as my 300 yard groups are now as tight as my 200's used to be. I think the rifle is breaking in, and so am I.  I'm still firing off a bi-pod from a bench and using factory Federal Gold Medal 168's. My 5 shot 300 yard groups are right at an inch or less. The rifle is extemely consistent. The barrel is so easy to clean that I can get the copper out in just a few minutes. Tim | |||
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That's some impressive shit! What's the wind been like when you shot those groups? $4300 doesn't sound like much when you get every cent's worth, and then some. [ 11-27-2003, 08:34: Message edited by: Orion 1 ] | |||
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The wind varies this time of year. My range is somewhat protected in that the firing line is cut through some pretty thick trees. The wind usually doesn't break 5 - 8 mph usually. Tim | |||
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Here's a neat video with a tight 5 shot group (right at an inch) at 300 yards. I took the camera on the back of the dirtbike to show just how far 300 yards is (to those who don't already know). You'll see some other tight groups on the target holder at the end of this video if you hit 'pause'.http://www.full-auto.com/images/forums/Video/300yard_5shot.wmv Tim | |||
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Full Auto, is that chassis a AI 1.5?? Forgive my ignorance..sakofan.. Iam soon to own a tacticle rifle myself. Thanks!! Nice, nice rig!! | |||
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Full Auto, some questions : 1) Could the AI be "turned" into a take - down rifle (I mean in a practical sense, not the exact definition) 2) A couple of weeks ago I had a long range session with a Sako TRG21... impressive is the least, in every sense. No better design and execution 3) Since you have shot both, can you give us some feedback on both rifles? tks in advance! | |||
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