Dave, I have now recovered two consecutive 180s. Both got pretty seriously pancaked. Distances were 110 and 150 yds. One had the core separate when I skinned it out. I've thought about monometals, but have a supply of both 200 and 220 gr NPs.

So was wondering if they would open quickly enough for deer with a 2600 fps MVs. It is extremely unlikely I would ever take a longer than 250 yd shot up here so 2600 fps is plenty. Not like Columbia County, NYS. Sam

quote:

Originally posted by Samuel_Hoggson:
Over the past couple years I've been mulling the idea of slowing down my .300s. In NY I was having longer shots. But here in ME, the 180 PSPCLs @ 2950 are not penetrating so well on closer shots. Last two failed to exit big whitetails when placed low neck and broadside....no shoulders.

So I've been thinking about targeting 2800 fps with the CLs. Yeah, I know. Get a .30-06. Well, I own the .300s.

The other thought is to load 220 gr NPs (which I just happen to have) to 2600 and have one load for literally anything from deer to moose.

My questions: will the 220 NPs open up enough on whitetails shot through the ribcage? Ie., are they like lighter .308 NPs (front half always opens)? Or should I stick with slower 180 CLs?

Thanks,

Sam

Sam, Like Dave said, I'm pretty sure your bullets are coming apart at that distance and muzzle velocity. A few years back, I shot a pretty good size south Texas Whitetail in the neck with a 300 WSM using 180 grain Rem Coreloks with a MV of 3000 fps. It was just before the rut and his neck was really swollen. He was about 75 yards.
The bullet blew-up like a grenade with no exit wound.

The 180 or 200 grain Noslers would be a good idea for your situation. Or even 200 gr. Sierras leaving the tube at 2700. Just my thoughts.

The 180 CL will open up at 2600. The work fine in the '06 at 2800 MV.
Also the Nosler 220 Partition will also open on deer at 2600 and work on an NA critter at that speed as well.
Good Hunting.

[

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
trax,

i think some of your points are in error; time of flight? really? i think we're talking milliseconds here so I dont' see a real difference.

drift? a ballistics calculator can help here. less recoil? doub it; a 300 grain 375 at 2400 in a 9 lb rifle assuming say, 72 grains of propellant comes up for me with 37 ft lbs at 16 fps recoil while a 250 at 2800 using 74 grains shows 40 ft at 17 fps.

more penetration? at what range? while a mono seems to penetrate like hell what of momentum which a heavier bullet has over a lighter one?

Are you simply assuming, or do you know for a fact that I am wrong?

Recoil .338win 9lb rifle
200gn,74.5gn charge, 2930mv - Free recoil 27.50 impulse 3.92 vel 14.03
225gn,73.5gn charge 2800mv - Free recoil 30.06 impulse 4.10 vel 14.67

Penetration
I said no less penetration, however in many cases monos have more.
Finn Aggaard found a lighter BarnesX regularly out penetrating the 180NP [30/06] the Barnes-X became his std 30/06 load for big game.
My .338win with Failsafes was astounding in how well it penetrated for a soft point,> why?.. less frontal area on expansion & more retained weight.
It killed game rather convincingly[with full penetration & good blood trail]..even approaching 400yd.


Time of flight
Yes we are talking small fractions of a second, the less time of flight, the less exposure to crosswind effect[drift]

Drift
I can understand an accurate calc for Drop,because it remains a constant for that bullet at that MV at that particular location above sea level.
How does the general hunter accurately calc the variable of drift in the field?
Higher BC and higher Vel. are the factors that reduce Drift.


Even just choosing a big game bullet with high BC makes difference:

the slower mv & lower recoil mono-loaded 30/06, does not take a backseat to cupcores in .300mag.

.300win.180-NP 2960mv.....................400yds:2206v/1945e Drift:11.5"
.300win.200-NP 2800mv.....................400yds:2087v/1934e Drift:12.11"
.300win.180-AF 2960mv.....................400yds:2084v/1736e Drift:13.84"
.300win.200-AF 2800mv.....................400yds:2032v/1834e Drift:13.25"
.30/06 177gnGSC-HV 2700mv......400yd:2166v/1844e Drift:9.33"

another case:

.300win 200AF [bc .444]..2800mv[250yd zero] @400yd: 2032v/1834e, Drop 18.02, Drift 13.25, TOF .51, free recoil 26.3
.300win 177HV [bc.638] ..2960mv[250yd zero] @400yd: 2391v/2247e, Drop 14.18, Drift 08.28, TOF .45, free recoil 24.4

The lighter mono is a winner in every regard.

all well and good, Trax and some great info but, for most of us, 400 yard shots on game are the exception rather than the rule.

in my mind, i'm wondering where the advantage to the mono is given the following factual data:

last year's buck shot by me while tracking in snow: 375 H&H, using 270 gr CnC at a range of 18 yards (it's called hunting at those ranges rather than shooting). shot was offered broadside and, as one may imagine, was a total pass through.

600+ lb cow moose shot by my wife at 51 yards in 2011 with a 150 gr 7mm NP. first shot side on and finisher 10 minutes later was quartering away and a total pass through on both shots. non-chrony load but assuming impact velocity around 2500 fps or thereabouts.

1100+ lb bull moose shot by me at 73 yards in 2008 with a 220 gr CnC 308 cal bullet. first shot was right on the point of the right shoulder as it quartered to me and left nickel sized hole in right scapula and was never found in the rumen. second shot broke spine just ahead of hips and was never recovered.

in fairness, a sampling of three is meaningless. yet, the point is these are pretty typical hunting distances for many hunters and the only "premium" bullet in the lot was the cow moose. all three animals were killed quickly and humanely as possible. i fail to see the value of the mono here although it may, in fact, be possible that it offers a heightened sense of security when offering angles are less than ideal.

further, i'll cite to the gregor woods tome, Hunting Rifles for Africa where he at length quotes a hunting study using Barnes bullets and the findings, again at normal sounding ranges, suggested the best performance from the barnes was at the velocity the OP began with while most people now seem to believe the monos need to begin at warp speed. that said, i wonder how the classic cartridges became so classic operating at such anemic velocities with their CnC bullets???

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
i wonder how the classic cartridges became so classic operating at such anemic velocities with their CnC bullets???

Hmmm, could it be because people actually hunted to within reasonable range on their game during that period of time, so warp velocity was unnecessary?

On another note but of the same vein; warp speed is not necessary even at extended ranges. I usually load down my 22" barreled 270Win to around 2850 with a 130grain Sierra SBT bullet. The three antelope I've shot so far at over 400yds each certainly didn't complain about it, and none went over 30 yards. No bullets were recovered, and all appearances were that they functioned flawlessly, resulting in three very dead antelope.

I've also shot whitetails at 150-250 yards with a 170grn sierra flat base spitzer from an 8x57 launched at a sedate 2450-ish (Chronographed), and every deer died from the shot... very quickly I might add. In fact, a couple were bang-flops on the spot, and again, none went over 30-40 yards.

Just my $.02

Well, today I tried the ".300 Slow-Roy" on paper. 180 PSPCLs w/72 gr 4350. With a 2 MOA dot had no trouble getting.....well.....2" at 100 yds. Chrono placed 25 yds out said 2660 fps.

Something about that velocity. Conjures up a vague recollection of an ancient .30 cal cartridge some guys named O'Connor and Whelen praised.....lemmethink.....uhhhh.......

Even felt like it. Strange, eh?

Sam

.30 cal 180grain bullet @2660... yup, sounds an awful lot like a traditionally loaded 30-06 to me... Hard to go wrong there.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:

..in my mind, i'm wondering where the advantage to the mono is given the following factual data:

last year's buck shot by me while tracking in snow: 375 H&H, using 270 gr CnC at a range of 18 yards (it's called hunting at those ranges rather than shooting). shot was offered broadside and, as one may imagine, was a total pass through.

and I am wondering what advantage the big boomer .375hh offers at such close ranges, on bucks.

when a .358win would be more than ample.

I guess you have your reasons for using a .375hh as do people have for prefering to use monometal bullets.

For those that prefer to hunt elk and plainsgame with a .375hh -but with reduced recoil,
a faster lighter mono[225gn] would help them achieve that.

quote:

and I am wondering what advantage the big boomer .375hh offers at such close ranges, on bucks.

Why does it have to be an advantage? Whatever happened to the Old American concept of "Freedom Of Choice".

I use a .375 H&H and also a .35 Whelen, both with Barnes bullets. Is it necessary, No! Do they kill any quicker, No! Does the combination provide the results I want, Yes!

Luckily in America, at least for now, the individual has the right to establish their own parameters concerning the performance, they as an individual want from their guns and the components they want to use in those guns.

All of us hunt under different conditions and have different expectations concerning the performance we want from our equipment. Why has that become a seemingly "Bad" thing????

Does anyone have any feedback on a 250 gr tsx out of a 9.3 x62 at 2450 fps? Barnes should have thought of the speed when designing this bullet for this calibre but just looking for actual field experience to confirm.
Thanks.

I think that the point of a 'big boomer' is to be ready for a wider selection of situations.

There would be no advantage, of course, if the 'big boomer' were loaded down to 'non-magnum' velocities. Then everything would be equal, except perhaps the weight of the gun.

quote:

when a .358win would be more than ample.

now you're into a whole 'nuther discussion trax; I direct you to a series of much more entertaining threads regarding the 223 as a deer round over on 24hourcampfire!

I used the gun because that is what I wanted to carry that day knowing full well any shot offered would be really close. the kind of close a hunter wants to be and I was curious what the wound would look like. I can assure you the 375 does not disappoint. one can eat right up to the hold unlike other rounds i've used in the past at short distances. i intend to drag that rifle about this year, too with the very intention of increasing the size of my sample pool and it will be with a moderate velocity load.

in the end, that's what makes for horse races, eh?

cheers.

Well, I've been thinking about all the input, and much of it is very helpful.

Several options, among many, are available for elk-sized game in a small rifle with medium-recoil.

1. 338 RCM in Ruger Hawkeye Compact.
A 210 TTSX at 2600fps would be easy to achieve in the 20" barrel. Drop at 300 yards, 2" arc, is -9" .

2. 338 Fed in Tikka T-3 Hunter Mountain.
A 210 TTSX might be limited to 2475-2500fps in a 20" barrel. Drop at 300 yards, 2" arc, is -10.6" .

3. 308 Win in Tikka T-3 Mountain or WinM70 Compact Featherweight.
180 grain at 2500fps should be doable in a 20" barrel. Drop at 300 yards, 2" arc, is -10.6".

In Africa, there are many small and medium antelope, but also larger ones like waterbuck and eland. The comparison takes on more urgency when one considers that an aggressive, stubborn lion could enter the scene. (This has happened to me once, a long time ago.) Which gun above would I want in my hands, or perhaps more fairly stated, would any of the above choices make any difference?

The three rifles above might all stop a lion but the first listing would have a wider margin for success. Certainly, the three rifles would be practically the same in normal hunting situations against animals like a wildebeest.

Should a buffalo wander into view, the first two choices could probably send a 300 grain bullet down range at 2300 and 2150 fps respectively. 300 grains at 2300fps within 100yards, is it enough for a buffalo? Probably, but it is illegal in TZ, so we don't need to go there. Still, strange situations can develop in a forest and I like to consider the extremes. Maybe next month my wife will try out some of these loads in a 338WinMag that we have in the US. See if she likes 210 gn at 2600fps. I suspect that such a load would easily handle most normal hunting situations in Africa.

This past season i shot a whitetail buck with a .375win 200gr Sierra @2,250fps he dressed at 145lbs and the shot just flattened him, velocity is not always everything.

With that said i also just received a box of .358 TTSX's for my .358win and want to drive em as fast as possibe(2,700-2,800fps) and see how they work on deer. Will be interesting in my 35 Whelen, should get 3,000fps with em.

Sorry the TTSX's are 180gr, new to the market

Too many varibles to make a outright statement on the subject, but I believe a good deal of velocity kills deer size animals best, and big slow bullets work best on Moose, Buffalo etc. and you have to take range in consideration also as the slow bullets get really slow out yonder a ways..

One thing I do along these lines is I shoot 200 and 220 gr. Noslers in my 20" barreled mod 54 Win 30-06 and it has a receiver sight, so I'm not going to be shooting it beyond the heavy bullets limit..On my 24" mod. 70 30-06 I shoot mostly 150s, but still shoot some 200 gr. Noslers at 2700 FPS for elk in Idaho, but 2700 is not slow IMO..

I like 300 and 320 gr. bullets in my 9.3x62 at 2400 and in my .375 I like 300gr. bullets slowed down to 2500 and the 350 gr. Woodleigh at 2400.., I also like the 450 gr. Woodligh in my 404 and 416. but on the savanas I'll bot with lighter bullets at more velocity in all the above.

Just use common since when you pick a bullet, there is no one answer, both have a place in each caliber IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
...knowing full well any shot offered would be really close. the kind of close a hunter wants to be....

I like others on AR have long given-up on holding a narrow ideological view on what a fine hunt should entail.

People have had highly challenging hunts [that if you mention the distance] would not impress some folk,
who are of the mindset that it cannot be as good as a hunt where game is taken at much closer ranges.

A hunt does not necessarily have to take place under a certain distance,
to be considered highly challenging,satisfying and memorable.
...unless one has programmed their mind to believe that.


I have had circumstances where near 400yd shot is the one on offer,
I have had circumstance where I have repeatedly stumbled across game at ranges much closer than I ever expected,
...without putting in any arduous long stalk --- [call that good fortune if one likes]

but which would be sort of an anti-climax in some peoples minds, because the animal presented little challenge.

In hunting I accept and take it as it comes, without feeling it should have been this way or that.

Each hunt is an individual experience and relative to circumstance at the time,
so it find it wise not to compare.

The funniest one was where I was in the monsoonal[dry season] tropics...hunting wild boar.
while walking the dry creek beds, I had cause to relieve my bladder,
...after putting my .338win on the ground,
I soon had a large boar wake from his sleep[under the roots of a tree on the bank just a few yards away],
I didnt see or hear him until he passed[casually trotted] directly past me within a few yards,
....while I was still in the process of relieving my bladder....

At the other extreme [on same hunt] my guide and I had been treking around for several hrs without seeing anything.
Decided to stop and have bite to eat[in shade of some trees], on the edge of a large floodplain.
Whilst sitting, I glanced across the plain and noticed some blacks dots in the distance, near a tree line.
asked the guide if he thinks they are pigs,[he needed to look through his scope]he confirmed they were.

Instead of getting closer I elected to take the shot from our treeline.
Dropped the first [stationary] boar,...& cleaned up another - as he bolted away trying to reach his treeline.

Trax

Is that a 35 Whelen you keep parading in the thread? Does it like 2400 fps?

I run 140 grain bullets at a shade under 2600 fps out of my 6.5x55. Drops deer like the hammer of Thor out to 300 yards, and doesn't blow them apart in the process. Cup and core bullets work like magic at velocities in that range

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Trax

Is that a 35 Whelen you keep parading in the thread? Does it like 2400 fps?

No, its the .350 Rigby!...it predates the .375H&H...and does so with a more modern/intelligent case design.
The first true British branded magnum-Mausers were Rigbys.

Factory figures were 225gn steel jacketed soft @2625mv....actual chronographed figures have shown more like 2500mv.
Taylor killed a whole pile of African DG with that load and merited the .350.....

In African Rifles and Cartridges, Taylor wrote:

"There is nothing spectacular about this cartridge; it has never had the write-up that the .318 and .375 Magnum get from time to time;
nevertheless, it is a splendidly effective shell and at ranges of up to at least 150 yards kills as instantaneously as the .375 Magnum.
In addition, it has an appreciably lighter recoil."

A modern loaded 35Whelen trimly built on a small ring action,.would be a great rig.

NoslerCustomAmmo are claiming their 35Whelen: 225AB & 225NP @2800mv....250NP-2550mv

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Your reason is to have a relatively low recoil for members of your family.

The 338 is not legal for any of the big animals, so if they wish to hunt buffalo for instance they need to shoot a 375 or a 9.3.

So for plains game, why don't you use something like a 270?

I have shot literally hundreds of African game animals with various 270s.

They include supposedly tough animals as zebra and sable and eland.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Your reason is to have a relatively low recoil for members of your family.

The 338 is not legal for any of the big animals, so if they wish to hunt buffalo for instance they need to shoot a 375 or a 9.3.

So for plains game, why don't you use something like a 270?

I have shot literally hundreds of African game animals with various 270s.

They include supposedly tough animals as zebra and sable and eland.

نصيحة صائبة يا سعيد

The 2600fps came up because we are looking for a 13" LOP off the shelf. The stature of the family members is 5'0" and 5'5". It seems that most everything in a short rifle prefers the "308Win" length cartridges (243, 7-08, 308, 338Fed, and the fatter 338 RCM).

So if you were going to decide between a 270 Win and a 338 RCM, which one would you prefer to carry into the forest? Or wouldn't it make any difference?

please tell us about this more intelligent designed case.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

So if you were going to decide between a 270 Win and a 338 RCM, which one would you prefer to carry into the forest? Or wouldn't it make any difference?

Depends on what you're hunting for. For deer, the 270. For elk, moose and African plains game, the .338.

People can get carried way with bore size, velocity figures just as they do with energy figures.
somehow assuming that the higher figures are better killers/more lethal.

It makes me laugh when people say things like;
'the animal absorbed several well placed large calibre bullets[equal of 40,000e]..and refused to die!"
They seem somewhat dumfounded.

Yet elephant have been very effectively[lethally] shot with broadheads , that have vel. well below 200fps,
and energy on impact of about 110ft/lb,...with complete pass through.


the efficiency with which a projectile utilizes the force[momentum] available to it, is a most important factor.


Momentum is the measure used in physics to quantify the "impulse" or force exerted over a period of time in one specific direction.


Kinetic energy is the capacity to do work, the total energy of a body in motion- it is nondirectional in nature.
As applied to a projectile[in motion], K.E. includes such things as:
radial energy, rotational energy, sonic energy[vib.], heat energy[fric.],and potential energy{all other remaining energy}.
K.E. alone as a predictor of penetration fails to take into consideration the mechanical advantage of the projectile and coefficient of resistance.
The KE of a projectile, by definition, is not a direct indicator of the penetration capability of the bullet/cartridge combination.

One could severe an aeorta or penetrate the chamber of an organ[heart/lung] with a thin pointed stiletto blade,
or smash through a ribcage with a heavy wide blade spear,
with the spear one will make a much bigger incision and mess, but the organism will be no more dead.

Hunting Euro-style...2400-2600 ft/sec....7x57, 7x57R, 7x65R, 8x57IRS, 9.3x62, 9.3x74R....it works

The available rifles changes one's thoughts, too.

The 338 RCM and the 338 Fed would both be great guns for smaller statures in Africa. However, where will such guns be found in 2014? The 338 RCM is still available on websites, but has been discontinued in the Ruger Compact Magnum model.

That brings me to a special little off-the-shelf rifle, the Tikka T-3 . Chuck Hawks doesn't like them because they use several shortcuts to minimize expenses like free-floating a barrel, and changing the bolt stop for 243 and 270. But they really are accurate, light, slick, and handle nicely. And since the "308Win" cases and "270" cases are using the same receiver, a person can choose the larger calibre with no loss. So a Tikka Hunter in 270 Win makes a lot of sense.

For eland I would still want a full-power load like a 129LRX at 3100fps. But for most hunting from impala, even hartebeest, on down, the same bullet can be loaded to 2600fps and take everything out to 300 yards.

Killing and animal quickly and not wanting to end up with a lot of bloodshot meat is at ends with each other, you can't have one without the other to a certain extent and thats not in all cases..

I would say however if long range isn't in the equasion that any bullet say 100 grs or over at 2400 FPS will kill well enough and not normally get you a lot of bloodshot game, its about as good a trade off as your going to find. There are other options like the 30-30, 25-35 but the range shortens with the less velocity.

I always thought the 300 Savage was the meat hunters ideal gun for anything up to and including elk at reasonable range and omitting goint away shots perhaps, I would anyway. but we need to be careful as none of are the shooter police.

On another thread dealing with the 270 I'm intrigued by the 129grain Barnes LRX at 3100 fps. That can't be a bad choice, but I come back and ask about 2600-2400 fps. A real 2600-2400, not just a reduced load of a cartridge like the 270. (For the 270, one could drop into that velocity with the old Barnes 180 grain roundnose, but I'm not into roundnose as an all-around bullet...so...).

The 338 Federal drops just about perfectly into a 2600fps-2400fps range. The 185 grain bullets, Barnes and Nosler should get 2600 in a 22" barrel, and the 210 and 225 grain bullets should be able to reach 2400fps. At least Barnes lists a 225grain at 2457fps in 24", but Nosler suggests that 2350-2375fps is more likely in 22" with 225grain bullets.

So for short case cartridges, the 338 Federal is about a perfect match for 2600fps-2400fps . Why don't we hear people beating a path to its door?

I think Ray nailed it at least for Americans.

I just received notice from GSCustom that some 450 grain HV .510" bullets are in the mail. They should work out well at 2600 fps in the 500 AccRel Nyati.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
On another thread dealing with the 270 I'm intrigued by the 129grain Barnes LRX at 3100 fps. That can't be a bad choice, but I come back and ask about 2600-2400 fps. A real 2600-2400, not just a reduced load of a cartridge like the 270. (For the 270, one could drop into that velocity with the old Barnes 180 grain roundnose, but I'm not into roundnose as an all-around bullet...so...).

The 338 Federal drops just about perfectly into a 2600fps-2400fps range. The 185 grain bullets, Barnes and Nosler should get 2600 in a 22" barrel, and the 210 and 225 grain bullets should be able to reach 2400fps. At least Barnes lists a 225grain at 2457fps in 24", but Nosler suggests that 2350-2375fps is more likely in 22" with 225grain bullets.

So for short case cartridges, the 338 Federal is about a perfect match for 2600fps-2400fps . Why don't we hear people beating a path to its door?

because Americans have been trained to rate max velocity as a first consideration. it's the same mentality which explains why the 7mm rm is a perennial best seller in Maine.

In keeping with the velocity range, how about 2405fps with a 300gr RN SN Hornady from a .375 Ruger. Rifle was a Ruger Mk II with 20" barrel cut down to 17" barrel, the Factory Hogue stock replaced with an original Ruger synthetic stock, and a Leupold 2.5x fixed power scope installed using Ruger factory rings.

Shooting the rifle proved recoil to be very easy on the shoulder and accurate at the ranges that I shot it. I also watched my buddy shoot very accurately at 325yds from standing, field sitting, and field braced against the vehicle bumper - but then he's very familiar with this rifle/load combination which he promulgated for use in Oregon woods which open into large clear cut areas where an upclose or the 300-325yd shot may be your only shot for that day's hunt.

As much of a big bore slow bullet fan that I am there is always a place where it isn't the best choice, that is why I have a 270 and a 300 H&H. In the wide open spaces I want a muzzle velocity of 3000 FPS. where I have mostly hunted Gemsbok shots are long, in the So. Texas Sendero country a 400 to 600 or further shot is not uncommon albiet I seldom take a shot over 400 even in the Senderos. In certain areas of Idaho elk are normally shot across big deep and wide canyons and I like a 200 gr. Nosler at 3000 FPS in my 300 H&H but in the black timber I like my 9.3x62 or .338 Win. even a 375 at about 2400 to 2500 FPS...There is room for both in my gun cabinet.

quote:

The 338 Federal drops just about perfectly into a 2600fps-2400fps range. The 185 grain bullets, Barnes and Nosler should get 2600 in a 22" barrel, and the 210 and 225 grain bullets should be able to reach 2400fps. At least Barnes lists a 225grain at 2457fps in 24", but Nosler suggests that 2350-2375fps is more likely in 22" with 225grain bullets.

So for short case cartridges, the 338 Federal is about a perfect match for 2600fps-2400fps . Why don't we hear people beating a path to its door?

Those velocities are easily exceeded. I get 2800 with the 185 TTSX out of a 22" barrel using Barnes data and 3000 with the 160 TTSX. The 200-210 bullets shoot 2600+ and the 225 Deepcurl went 2500+. Not sure why it's not more popular with the wide range of bullets available in 338 and the availability of 308 brass.

I haven't played with mine too much lately because my gun range was sued and banned any caliber over 7mm.

the .338 Federal is in the class of; 8x57,8x60s & .318WR.... which cant be a bad thing.

Mauser chambered its rather compact pre-war Kurz actioned sporting rifles,.. in 8x51mm.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
On another thread dealing with the 270 I'm intrigued by the 129grain Barnes LRX at 3100 fps. That can't be a bad choice, but I come back and ask about 2600-2400 fps. A real 2600-2400, not just a reduced load of a cartridge like the 270. (For the 270, one could drop into that velocity with the old Barnes 180 grain roundnose, but I'm not into roundnose as an all-around bullet...so...).

The 338 Federal drops just about perfectly into a 2600fps-2400fps range. The 185 grain bullets, Barnes and Nosler should get 2600 in a 22" barrel, and the 210 and 225 grain bullets should be able to reach 2400fps. At least Barnes lists a 225grain at 2457fps in 24", but Nosler suggests that 2350-2375fps is more likely in 22" with 225grain bullets.

So for short case cartridges, the 338 Federal is about a perfect match for 2600fps-2400fps . Why don't we hear people beating a path to its door?

Perhaps because those who would chose to use such a load already have a 300 Savage, 8X57 or a 358 Win.. Nothing wrong with either of them and they all have a reputation for strong killing ability with relatively low levels of recoil. One very simple approach to achive what you seek is to take a 308 win with a fairly heavy bullet and start with 300 Savage data working up until you find what you are after. You will end up with much the same results as the 2600-2400 load you seek from the 338 fed with a bit flatter trajectory.