quote:

In the last several years of hunting deer in Wisconsin and Nebraska,

We're talking about ELK, not "deer." Roosevelt Elk in Pacific NW in heavy timber where most are taken inside 100 yds., 350 or 400 gr. Speer SP over 4895 works well in a lever carbine for heavy cover. Scopes run 1.5 - 6x and 32mm heavy duplex reticle so it can be seen in the woods. In 30-06 they use 180 gr. or heavier bullets. Lots of .338 Mag. stuff in the woods.

Open country and Rocky Mt. Elk where ranges run 200 yds or more, the preferred caliber is 300 Win. Mag. 3 - 9x scope, 40mm and duplex reticle.

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How far was that shot at Adobe Walls that killed an Indian chief, or his horse? Wasn't it about a mile and wasn't it a 45/70?

I shot a gopher at just shy of 200yds once with my 22LR. DRT. I also have a snowballs chance in H*LL of ever duplicating that shot intentionally.

A Brit sniper whacked a guy in Afganistan at what 2000+ yards? Made the papers because it's one hell of a shoteven with a 338 Lapua and a $2500 scope and a spotter helping him dope the wind.

Get a book on probability and statistics, chaos theroy is a good place to start. It's probable that eventually given the number of rounds fired in any situation that you will have some get lucky, or unlucky if you happen to be on the wrong end of the Indian and the 45/70 story.

If you regularly make 300 to 1000 yard shots with a 45/70 without any type of ranging device, in new country (not the local range or anywhere else you "know" how far away something is) with NO sighters, one shot cold bore, iron sights etc. Then you are a god, not the G*D but at least a local deity.

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Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
I wonder how many Bison have been killed with a 45-70?

Quite a few. I killed one in 2004 with my high wall 45-70, so it wasn't an oddity of the 19th century that Buffalo would die if shot with a 45-70.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
I wonder how many Bison have been killed with a 45-70?

I doubt any of the buffalo hunters of the day cared much about humane kills or hunting ethics. So hit a big bull & he runs off a mile & dies, find him two days later or maybe never, who cared? I would use my 45-70 to hunt but hitting & killing cleanly are two diff things. I'm sure I could hit an elk @ 200yds, but kill him cleanly, maybe not w/ a bullet arriving @ such low vel.

fred, not to pick nits but your post above would be inaccurate. the professional buffalo hunters of the day had a very big interest in pinpoint accuracy and clean kills.

think about it - a big herd of buffalo - what would happen with a bunch of thrashing and screaming animals?

stampede - there go all the profits.

There's a post in singleshot forum on billy dixon and his shot. 7/8 of a mile, surveyed a couple days after the shot was made, with a 50/90. Dixon at the urging of bat masterson shot at "a tight group of horseman" and hit one.The shot was recreated, and proven to be possible.

vapodog--That is a very nice elk. If he stepped in front of me at 300 yards and I had my Sharps 45-70, the shot would be a gimme. Not only that, I would shoot through and through both shoulders with a lead bullet and black powder.

Not only would I do it with the 45-70, I would do it with my 45-90 or my 45-110. I killed a 1600 pound bull bison in Dec. at 84 yards with my 45-70 and got complete pass through on both shoulders. I also shot a bull bison in 2004 at 200 yards and got complete pass through with my 45-110. I shoot only barrel sights, lead bullets, and black powder. FWIW, I have taken a number of animals in Africa at distances over 300 yards and have yet to recover a bullet. I have most of it on DVD.

A 300 yard elk with my Sharps 45-70 is really a gimme. Honest.

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vapodog--That is a very nice elk. If he stepped in front of me at 300 yards and I had my Sharps 45-70, the shot would be a gimme. Not only that, I would shoot through and through both shoulders with a lead bullet and black powder.

Very impressive....may I ask what weight of bullet and what velocity you're shooting?

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Originally posted by sharpsguy:
A 300 yard elk with my Sharps 45-70 is really a gimme. Honest.

occasionally I shoot with a couple of guys like you. I usually watch in ahw with my mouth droped open. I've chronoed their loads,550 grain cast bullets, at 1100 to 1150 fps. roger

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Originally posted by Low Wall:
daniel77,
Take a look at this thread:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...hy_a_45_70_pic_heavy

He was using a 45-110 but said that the 45-70 would do the same thing and is fact going to use a 45-70 when he goes back to Africa in Oct. of this year...
Here are links to his two African hunts at the Shiloh forum:
http://www.shilohrifle.com/for...711&highlight=africa

http://www.shilohrifle.com/for...1261&highlight=zebra

It all boils down to how much time and practice you can spend to learn your rifle..

...holycow, eh vapo..

vapodog--I usually shoot a 511 grain paper patched lead bullet at 1195 fps in the 45-70. In the 45-110 the same bullet goes 1330.

I sometimes use a 480 grain flat nosed bullet at 1240 fps in the 45-70 and 1330 in the 45-110.

We, in general, as shooters are used to shooting lots of differant guns, scoped, unscoped, flat shooting or not, that we are good shots with most everything. But, and it's a big but, folks like sharpsguy or billy dixon ect are tuned into one type of shooting. Take the buffalo hunters, they lived and breathed their rifles and terrain. they knew distance by the size the animal looked to them and they looked at hundreds of thousands. Those rifles were a part of them, not something to try one load today and a differant load next time at the range. Look at some of the scores from the 1000 yd shoots of the day, truly amazing. I admire and respect the ability of folks like sharpsguy keeping the tradition alive.

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Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
fred, not to pick nits but your post above would be inaccurate. the professional buffalo hunters of the day had a very big interest in pinpoint accuracy and clean kills.

think about it - a big herd of buffalo - what would happen with a bunch of thrashing and screaming animals?

stampede - there go all the profits.

I doubt they agonized over lost animals though. We also know that the avg buffalo hunter was shooting very close, not 300-400yds.

The buffalo hunters didn't want to get TOO close. They preferred something on the order of 200 to 300 yards, but reaching out to 500 or so was certainly not uncommon.

The idea was to get a stand and not spook the herd. When you got closer than 200 yards it was much easier to spook the herd. The better marksmen would commonly hold a four inch group at that distance, and an average shooter could do close to that.

The last one I shot was a 1600 pound bull at 84 yards, and I'll tell you that I don't want to get that close to a herd of 200 buffalo on foot again. They are just not that difficult to hit and kill at two or three hundred yards with a properly loaded Sharps if you know how to use the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
vapodog--I usually shoot a 511 grain paper patched lead bullet at 1195 fps in the 45-70. In the 45-110 the same bullet goes 1330.

I sometimes use a 480 grain flat nosed bullet at 1240 fps in the 45-70 and 1330 in the 45-110.

Yeah, the black powder and paper patch boys locally are shooting silhouettes at 1000 yards off cross-sticks, iron sights. 45-70, but more 45-90 and 45-110.

Native Americans (Indians) called the Sharps, "The shoot today, kill tomorrow gun."