The Accurate Reloading Forums
A light rifle for an old man
19 September 2012, 13:23
WstrnhuntrA light rifle for an old man
quote:
Originally posted by Hunter54:
quote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
After 25+ years of carrying around his 9lb hunting rifle, I convinced my father an upgrade might be in order. The only thing my father hunts is white tailed deer at ranges less than 100yds. His only request is that the rifle be as light as possible. Here is what I was thinking: the local pawn shop has a Winchester 70 classic stainless in 243 WSSM for cheap. I was thinking of a re-barrel to something with a little more punch. I was thinking of either 7mm WSSM or 358 WSSM. I was thinking of a Lone Wolf Summit XL for the stock if they still offer it, if not then probably a McMillan Edge. What I am still not certain on is the barrel length and contour, should the barrel be fluted. Lastly, what scope would you recommend?
You mentioned "his" once and you mention "I" six time! Obviously it's not about what your father wants, it's about what YOU want.
Stop being selfish, pay attention to what HE wants and get him a lightweight rifle in a practical standard cartridge (243 win., 260 Rem, 7mm-08, 308 win) for deer under 100 yards.
Exactly.. What does HE want? That is the first question that should be asked.. Damn near anything will suffice for whitetails @ 100 yds.
If it were my old man I would think he would prefer something a bit more nostalgic than a wsm. ??
And if he is going lightweight, whitetails @ 100 yds or less then you could easily use a round that is very pleasant for the old boy to shoot all day long.
7X57, 260 rem, 30-30 and 35 Remington comes to mind. But again, what does HE like??
AK-47
The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like.
19 September 2012, 13:26
buckeyeshooterIn his declining years my father carried a remington 600 in .308 with a 2x7 leupold. Very light and handy, with not very much recoil. I carry it now and then myself now.
19 September 2012, 17:08
scottfromdallasquote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
We went back to the shop that had the Win 70 in 243 WSSM to see if he could do any better with the price. The guy went down to 500.00 so we bought it. If it were up to me I would just do a stock swap. However, my father seems to think that anything under .30 cal is too small for deer. So I will be going with the 358 WSSM. Mainly because I can get preformed brass and dies from:
http://www.bfgcartridges.com/358BFG.html
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
35 Remington?
358 Win?
I'm with boomy, why do a 35WSSM for whitetail under 100 yards? The man is just going to get older (like us all), give him something he can shoot comfortably for years. I'm sure he will appreciate something light with a lighter kick. You did not mention what he is currently shooting but if you are looking to chop 2 lbs off his rifle, a lower recoil round should be considered to offset the weight loss.
19 September 2012, 17:48
chuck375quote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
So I had my father check out the Kimber's, likes everything but the stock fit. They had one in 257 Bob that looked promising but at 1200.00 it was a little much for a rifle that still needs a stock swap. I showed him some tikka's, model 7's and the Sako (Base model). He is the most finicky person as to what he likes, doesn't like foreign and gun has to be CRF. We went back to the shop that had the Win 70 in 243 WSSM to see if he could do any better with the price. The guy went down to 500.00 so we bought it. If it were up to me I would just do a stock swap. However, my father seems to think that anything under .30 cal is too small for deer. So I will be going with the 358 WSSM. Mainly because I can get preformed brass and dies from:
http://www.bfgcartridges.com/358BFG.html
Sounds like you got a great deal. The plain old 243 is a great whitetail cartridge. The 243 WSSM should be awesome. Use good bullets at those speeds (Partitions, A-Frames, TSX's etc.)
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
19 September 2012, 17:58
BohicaI built a 338 WSSM for a guy with the same [rotator cup]damage as your dad and me. It was supposed to be for these little Blacktail deer hereabouts but so far three elk in three years. I [personally] still shoot either my trusted old [30yrs] 600 Rem in 250 Sav Ackley with kevlar stock and Redfield 1 3/4-5 or it`s clone in 260 Rem Ackley Imp. Both weigh in at a tad over 5lb 12oz. Heck! Treat the old guy good. Hopefully he`ll be hunting for a long time yet. All my hunting pals are dead so it is me and my 1979 Suzuki Brute chugging along the logging roads and not looking DOWN into those deep holes anymore.
Aloha, Mark
When the fear of death is no longer a concern----the Rules of War change!!
19 September 2012, 21:10
BlacktailerYou might see if you can find him a M700 in a suitable caliber for cheap and have a light syn stock fit to your dad. My M700 with a syn stock in 30-06 weighs 7lb 2oz with a Leupold 2-7 Ultralight scope. Is that light enough?
Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
19 September 2012, 22:18
cobraHere ya go, doesn't get any better than that. Chambered in 7mm-08 topped with a 2x7 compact, it's one of the sweetest rifles ever made.
http://www.remington.com/produ...seven-synthetic.aspx 
19 September 2012, 23:35
thecanadianquote:
Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
35 Remington?
358 Win?
I'm with boomy, why do a 35WSSM for whitetail under 100 yards? The man is just going to get older (like us all), give him something he can shoot comfortably for years. I'm sure he will appreciate something light with a lighter kick. You did not mention what he is currently shooting but if you are looking to chop 2 lbs off his rifle, a lower recoil round should be considered to offset the weight loss.
358 WSSM should be the ballistic twin of the 358win, maybe slightly better. I will probably load 180gr bullets to about 2400f/sec. The WSSM rifle action is a half inch shorter then the standard short action. I will take weight reduction from anywhere I can get it. Plus I got a great deal on the rifle. New they are supposed to go from 800-900 dollars new. We got this one at 500.00.
"though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."
---Thomas Jefferson
20 September 2012, 00:06
richjHas anyone seen the Savage Lightweight Hunters up close. 5.5lb wood stock, 20" bbl.
20 September 2012, 00:24
cobraquote:
Originally posted by richj:
Has anyone seen the Savage Lightweight Hunters up close. 5.5lb wood stock, 20" bbl.
Not yet, I have two Savage Sierras, 20" barrels and just a touch over 6 lb. with synthetic stocks. When did they come out with that one?
20 September 2012, 00:35
richjhere's one in 6.5 creedmoor. from 8/2011
www.gunblast.com/Savage-11-65Creedmoor.htm20 September 2012, 01:09
boom stickIf you have a WSSM donor than either a 35 with 35 Rem bullets or a 6.8 WSSM makes the most sense due to magazine length issues. I would go with a mild recoil classic for dear O'l Dad. Kimber makes a nice light 257 Bob still I think.
The 6.8 SPC should get some consideration too. Ruger makes a nice light bolt action for that chambering. Deer to hogs its a great round.
Consider a red dot sight for weaker eyes.
I would say a 30-30 with red dot would be quite practical.
20 September 2012, 04:46
oldunquote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
my grandma hunted till the year she died, that was at 82. She is the one that taught me how to gut a deer.
You obviously come from a great line of hunters, good luck to your father what ever he chooses.
20 September 2012, 04:53
Grumulkinquote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
After 25+ years of carrying around his 9lb hunting rifle, I convinced my father an upgrade might be in order. The only thing my father hunts is white tailed deer at ranges less than 100yds. His only request is that the rifle be as light as possible. Here is what I was thinking: the local pawn shop has a Winchester 70 classic stainless in 243 WSSM for cheap. I was thinking of a re-barrel to something with a little more punch. I was thinking of either 7mm WSSM or 358 WSSM. I was thinking of a Lone Wolf Summit XL for the stock if they still offer it, if not then probably a McMillan Edge. What I am still not certain on is the barrel length and contour, should the barrel be fluted. Lastly, what scope would you recommend?
There would be nothing wrong with any of the cartridges you mention for deer at the range you specify including the 243 WSSM. Personally, I'd probably just leave the chambering as is.
Get whatever stock you like.
Barrel fluting does nothing significant regarding weight reduction and there are no other advantages to it other than some think it looks cool. I wouldn't change the barrel length or contour.
As for a scope, I've found a 2-7X Leupold adequate even to 300 to 400 yards. As a bonus, they're light and cheap.
Just a question; if your father is happy with his 9 lb. rifle why are you trying to get him to upgrade?
20 September 2012, 04:56
foxhoundEasy decision. Older Win or Marlin 30-30 lever. Cheap enough, light, handy and for sure will do the job, always have and always will. Or go fancy and get a FW savage 99.
Rick
DRSS
20 September 2012, 07:17
thecanadianquote:
Originally posted by foxhound:
Easy decision. Older Win or Marlin 30-30 lever. Cheap enough, light, handy and for sure will do the job, always have and always will. Or go fancy and get a FW savage 99.
Rick
If you only knew how much my father hates lever actions and semi-auto's. There is not a year that goes by that we don't hear someone in the woods shoot round after round, presumably missing every time. My dad would always say something along the lines of "cold day in hell" before he would carry one of them. The difficult part of finding him a rifle was that it had to fit his criteria: had to be a bolt action, CRF, not savage and had to be a domestic gun. Oh, and it has to be as light as possible. Between my brother and I, we have a number of rifles that were light enough (including a savage 99 in 303 Savage) but they just did not fit his criteria of a gun.
"though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."
---Thomas Jefferson
20 September 2012, 07:28
DrWatson69Brass Pro still has Browning A-bolt ii Composite stalkers in 308 and 7mm-08. for 499.99. Just bought one in 7mm-08. nice lite gun.
20 September 2012, 08:03
duckboatIts funny how this topic reads almost exactly like the many threads that discuss "What gun for my 10 year old?" or "What gun for my wife?"
20 September 2012, 22:22
Dave BushI am 64. My deer rifle used to be a Remington 7mm Magnum. It's been traded off on a nice little Ruger in .257 Roberts. I shoot 100 grain TSX bullets at 2900-3000 fps. Works great on deer, mild recoil and report, and nice and light and handy.
I love big bores but Jeff Smith and Michael458 have really sold me on the light and handy concept. So much so that my .338 Win Mag got traded off for a nice little Ruger .338 Compact Magnum with a 20 inch barrel. God, I wish I had this little RCM years ago when I was chasing elk through the mountains in Colorado.
Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
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Krieghoff 500 NE
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21 September 2012, 05:08
chuck375quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I am 64. My deer rifle used to be a Remington 7mm Magnum. It's been traded off on a nice little Ruger in .257 Roberts. I shoot 100 grain TSX bullets at 2900-3000 fps. Works great on deer, mild recoil and report, and nice and light and handy.
I love big bores but Jeff Smith and Michael458 have really sold me on the light and handy concept. So much so that my .338 Win Mag got traded off for a nice little Ruger .338 Compact Magnum with a 20 inch barrel. God, I wish I had this little RCM years ago when I was chasing elk through the mountains in Colorado.
I understand, I took my 11 lb 500 Jeffery elk hunting at 11,000 feet in Colorado (where I live) last year. Got a cow elk at 225 yards, didn't have to shoot her twice lol It's a bit much with my heart condition. I think I'll take either my 8 1/2 lb 270 Weatherby or the 6 1/2 lb 375 Weatherby this year.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
21 September 2012, 22:06
TerryRIf he doesn't like lever actions than, if I were him, I would look for a Rem model 7 in 7mm08. If I wanted CRF I would look for a Model 70 featherweight compact. I personally believe that a 7x57 is the ultimate whitetail caliber, 7mm08 is identical.
24 September 2012, 09:21
wympleI picked up the Mossberg 4x4 in .270. It touches 8 lbs with a scope, but feels lighter. It's accurate, and I like not just the odd look of it, but it shoulders quick and easy. They've gotten good reviews and come, I think, in 4 calibers.
24 September 2012, 09:50
waterratI just spent 10 days sheep hunting with my 30 Gibbs, pre-64 wood,9 lbs+.
Upon returning home I traded a 250 gal propane tank and a 30' Rohn Tower (for a windmill) for a Kimber Montana in 308 Win!!!
I'm not a spring chicken either but I do my best to pretend I am.
I tend to use more than enough gun
24 September 2012, 16:47
ron williamsquote:
Originally posted by LJS:
I would look for a good used Sako Finnlight. I prefer the model 75 and you can find them easily. Now that I'm in my seventies a Finnlight 6.5x55 is my whitetail gun. I like it with a 2x7 scope.
Got one of those too. Probably one of the best choices I have seen listed.
24 September 2012, 17:38
Woodrow SI agree with TerryR, the Winchester featherweight compact with CRF and WOOD stock is a hard to beat combo. Short, light, handy and even looks great(blue and wood just go together well). I have one in a 308 that remains unfired...but I will get it scoped and fired one of these days. BTW, most old guys like the 308 Winchester...it has a stellar reputation for getting the job done.
25 September 2012, 04:03
Blacktailerquote:
Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I agree with TerryR, the Winchester featherweight compact with CRF and WOOD stock is a hard to beat combo. Short, light, handy and even looks great(blue and wood just go together well). I have one in a 308 that remains unfired...but I will get it scoped and fired one of these days. BTW, most old guys like the 308 Winchester...it has a stellar reputation for getting the job done.
Given your criteria of bolt action CRF this seems to be your best choice. Top it with an ultralight 2-7 from Leupold and you have a very nice (and nice looking) combination. Your other option would be a Kimber in 308 which is what my wife shoots.
Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
25 September 2012, 04:12
JpatSince you picked up the rifle, hope all works out well. I had some surgery a few years ago that could have limited the felt recoil my neck could handle. Weight is also an issue as is how smooth the action is, those are personal preferences. I picked up 2 rifles, a 1943 Husqvarna 9.3x57 and a 1962 Husvarna 1600 small ring '98 action. Both are very mild recoil and very light even w/ wood stocks. Both are a hair over 6lb.. I've been shooting rifles w/ decent recoil for a few years since, but will never part w/ these rifle. They are just too good and a pleasure to stalk with.
25 September 2012, 04:22
Lamarwell the domestic gun part leaves winchester [owned by F.N.] and remington and marlin and bushmaster [freedom group from france] out then.
25 September 2012, 04:59
SlenkSavage light weight hunter short action,topped with a compact scope will be just over 6 pounds.
25 September 2012, 06:00
boltshooterquote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
If your dad is in fairly good physical shape, why limit him. If he is in fairly good health and enjoying himself it might not be a good idea to start treating him like he is old.
I know and have known quite a few guys in their 70's and 80's that enjoy hunting and go every chance they get. I may be some what prejudiced about this, and I guess at 62 I am still a kid, but I don't want anyone putting me out to pasture before my time, no matter how good their intentions.
Its not so much his age that is the problem. He has a rotator cuff problem and it hurts him to lift up and cycle a rifle. This why he wants to go as light as possible, it is much easier for him to hold up a 6.5lb rifle than a 9lb rifle.
On Sept. 11 I killed a cape buff in Hoedspruit South Afrika with a 9.3 x 62 shooting 286 grain bullets AT AGE 69. My backup gun is a CZ550 375 H&H.
Three years ago I had rotator cuff surgery and now have 5 small clamps in my shoulder. After physical therapy and now regular exercise I shoot just fine. My surgeon said injuries to the shoulder are cumulative. IF YOUR DAD HAS PROBLEMS YOU MIGHT CONSIDER GETTING HIM TO SEE A DOCTOR INSTEAD OF A LIGHTER RIFLE. I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED THE SAME THING YOUR DAD IS EXPERIENCING. ONE DAY AFTER A DUCK HUNT I COULD NOT LIFT MY ARM. THE ROATOR CUFF WAS TORN VERY BADLY.
A LIGHTER RIFLE ONLY DELAYS THE INEVITABLE.
25 September 2012, 06:06
MileHighShooterJust curious....of the many of you guys responding that he should buy X or Y or ABC....did you guys fail to read the OP's post that he already BOUGHT the WSSM?
If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
26 September 2012, 03:47
JpatNope, never read a line. Have you??
26 September 2012, 09:36
gumboot458quote:
Originally posted by TerryR:
Whitetails at 100yds or less. Pick up a used 30-30. Marlin or Winchester. They are light, handy and have been reliably taking whitetails forever.
I was wondering how long it would before someone stated the obvious. . Put a compact fixed 4x scope with a heavy duplex reticule. . Make sure the trigger is nice. And he's set.
Myself I would go with a Marlin in 35 Rem. But the Winchester 94 in 30-30 is pretty classic.
.If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined ....