You heard me. A BOSS-endectomy, cut off and gone, amputated.

I have a .338 Win Mag Win M70 Supergrade Classic that came with a BOSS on it when I bought it. I have really liked this rifle with the exception of the big chunk of pipe on the end of it, however I was able to adjust the BOSS to shoot tiny groups with it I never loved the rifle. Well I took the rifle to Kevin Weaver and he bobbed it off and crowned it beautifully (as usual with his work). I got it together and took it out and shot it yesterday and granted I didn't turn in a .5" group but I was able to shoot an inch at 100 yards in off and on 25 mph wind spitting rain and snow (I rushed it) I am happy and have no doubts if I shoot it a bit more and maybe mess with adding some bedding to change the frquency I think I'll be close to the groups I shot previously.
I'll post pictures Sunday of the rifle and maybe I'll have time to shoot a new group with it.
My favorite load is 70.5 grains of IMR-4350 and 225 grain Sierra's that move at 2815 fps.
We shortened the barrel a bit to get rid of the threads and numbers so I'll chrony the loads again too. Barrel is 21.5" now actually just about 1" shorter than the previous working length not measuring the BOSS.

I have a 30/06 Browning Stainless Stalker with the Boss. I have the non-ported one on the rifle and the loud ported one is in a box where it will stay. I sure like the way it shoots but hate the way it looks.

I don't use the rifle much and have thought about selling it but might use it more if I chopped off that ugly Boss. I just think I would be terribly disappointed if I chopped it and could not get it to shoot MOA like it easily does now.

Keep the Boss or chop it - what do y'all say? Merg

If it works why fix it? roger

Is there a big change in felt recoil?

Is the added recoil worth not having the added noise?

quote:

Originally posted by merganser1:
I have a 30/06 Browning Stainless Stalker with the Boss. I have the non-ported one on the rifle and the loud ported one is in a box where it will stay. I sure like the way it shoots but hate the way it looks.

I don't use the rifle much and have thought about selling it but might use it more if I chopped off that ugly Boss. I just think I would be terribly disappointed if I chopped it and could not get it to shoot MOA like it easily does now.

Keep the Boss or chop it - what do y'all say? Merg

I say chop that mess off. I love an accurate rifle but I had one and could not stomach the BOSS on the end of this nice rifle, now I'm proud to show it and I will get it shootin tight.

"Is there a big change in felt recoil?"

I rung my ears real bad with that rifle once in the field (only time I ever shot it without ear protection ) after that I eliminated the "brake " and used the "CR" fitting on it that uses the BOSS features and no brake. A .338 is very shootable in my book.

No recoil is worth a brake! at the range didn't get on my nerves TOO much, but friends and neighbors sure hated it. used it on a hunt though, so no ear protection on. had that f-ing brake cut off.

If I couldn't handle the recoil with a pad, shield or other such for practice, I wouldn't own the rifle.

congrats on cutting that BOSS off, I'm sure you'll like the rifle a lot more now.

Red

Sounds to me like you just cut off your nose to spite your face.

Why take a rifle that is shooting tiny groups (the objective of accuracy) at a great velocity (of which it now has less) and ruin it just cuz you don't like the way it looks?

It makes absolutely no sense at all unless you have rifles for the sole purpose of eye appeal!

You've taken a high velocity, accurate rifle and made it less accurate at a lower velocity....Congratulations!

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Sounds to me like you just cut off your nose to spite your face.

Why take a rifle that is shooting tiny groups (the objective of accuracy) at a great velocity (of which it now has less) and ruin it just cuz you don't like the way it looks?

It makes absolutely no sense at all unless you have rifles for the sole purpose of eye appeal!

You've taken a high velocity, accurate rifle and made it less accurate at a lower velocity....Congratulations!

The slight velocity loss will not be noticed, by the animals you shoot.

Thanks guys,

Mine has the CR Boss fitting so it makes no more noise than a regular rifle. It came with the the ported one when my neighbor bought it, but he took it off and replaced it with the CR type. He could not handle to noise nor could I.

I have two other 30-06's so I may just try to sell this one with the Boss on. As Mr. Bartche said, "It ain't broke", but it is ugly. Reminescent of the old Poly Chokes, ugh! Merg

Adjust your loads a bit and you'll find the the same accuracy. Congrats on loosing that horible looking dildo on the end of your barrel.
The ammount of velocity you lost is about the same as load development on a 70deg day and hunting on a 40deg day. Big deal.

That's the problem!
Now you have to do the load development the BOSS did for you!

I have 2 super grade BOSS guns, 300 win mag and 30-06. I love em, I use the CR on the 06 and the brake on the win mag. I love knowing I can shoot inside a quarter with these guns.

Congrats on getting rid of that ugly sewer pipe on a nice rifle. Maybe you can adjust your loads and gain the former accuracy back but hey, it's already shooting inch groups. That's plenty good for hunting and as was mentioned, any velocity loss will be unnoticed.
I use 225 gr. bullets in my .338, get 2800 fps and I use a PAST recoil pad on the bench when at the range. I can easily get thru a box of cartridges with no problem. Shooting at game? No problem - I never feel the recoil.
Continue on!!!
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Congrats on getting rid of that ugly sewer pipe on a nice rifle.

Agreed! Much improved - Classic. If, the gun builder, whoever they are? FN? Browning? Had a sense of taste, they might try to make a smaller, discrete unit, I am sure it could be done, just a 3/4 inch long cap on the end. As-is that is the butt-ugliest worse looking POS hanging on the end of a so-called Winchester (what ever that means these days).

Well done.

I would be curious to see if there is actual velocity loss as I recall the BOSS itself is larger than the bore diameter except at the very muzzzle and is not rifled. Am I correct on these points?

I think that is correct and I also believe, now I think about it, there was an option to cap it off.

IMHO the boss system was all was a piece of shit made for guys to lazy to load up round and ajust them to there barrel harmonics. To achive accuracy which is all the BS BOSS did OH and freaking deafen you.
AS a wish old man once said I would not have one of those up my ass if I had room for a township

My 338 wm has the BOSS. I wouldn't buy another one with it, but I won't saw it off. I have shot one hole groups with it using Federal Premium 210 gr Partition's. I also shoot less than MOA with Hornady 225 gr Heavy Mags. I used the brake once and never will again. I will never own a rifle with a brake.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
You heard me. A BOSS-endectomy, cut off and gone, amputated.

I have a .338 Win Mag Win M70 Supergrade Classic that came with a BOSS on it when I bought it. I have really liked this rifle with the exception of the big chunk of pipe on the end of it, however I was able to adjust the BOSS to shoot tiny groups with it I never loved the rifle. Well I took the rifle to Kevin Weaver and he bobbed it off and crowned it beautifully (as usual with his work). I got it together and took it out and shot it yesterday and granted I didn't turn in a .5" group but I was able to shoot an inch at 100 yards in off and on 25 mph wind spitting rain and snow (I rushed it) I am happy and have no doubts if I shoot it a bit more and maybe mess with adding some bedding to change the frquency I think I'll be close to the groups I shot previously.
I'll post pictures Sunday of the rifle and maybe I'll have time to shoot a new group with it.
My favorite load is 70.5 grains of IMR-4350 and 225 grain Sierra's that move at 2815 fps.
We shortened the barrel a bit to get rid of the threads and numbers so I'll chrony the loads again too. Barrel is 21.5" now actually just about 1" shorter than the previous working length not measuring the BOSS.

Nice! I love the idea.

I am a confirmed BOSS and Muzzle Brake hater!!

Good for you there snell. I hate brakes. They look like hell and hurt my ears.

I never liked that stupid muffler on any gun, I did the same thing with a 300 mag. I got better accuracy after the mufflerectomy and the barrel being bobbed to 22 from the factory 24 incher.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Sounds to me like you just cut off your nose to spite your face.

Why take a rifle that is shooting tiny groups (the objective of accuracy) at a great velocity (of which it now has less) and ruin it just cuz you don't like the way it looks?

It makes absolutely no sense at all unless you have rifles for the sole purpose of eye appeal!

You've taken a high velocity, accurate rifle and made it less accurate at a lower velocity....Congratulations!

Agreed!


Sure, a person can adjust loads so that they are (possibly) quite accurate without having a B.O.S.S. on their rifle. Most of the time....

The nice thing is though, if he has a B.O.S.S. on his rifle and can't get to handloading components or equipment, he can adjust the rifle to get the maximum accuracy from whatever ammo he CAN get.

I have two Brownings with the B.O.S.S. and that does work with them.

I don't worry about the muzzle brake noise because I can always figure out how to put my Peltor Tac-7s on. For that matter, out in the open fields, so long as I stay behind the gun (which is a good plan regardless of the rifle type) I do not find the noise bothersome anyway.

To me, the beauty of a tool like a rifle is inherent in its perfomance. A rifle which shoots "pretty" IS usually pretty enough for me. A rifle which is cranky and which I have to constantly treat and feed "just so" to get it to perform well always has at least a bit of an ugly side to it from my point of view.



Your money, your rifle, your choice. Same for me.

Here's an idea!! Saw the BOSS off and then replace it with one of those rubber donuts that is supposed to do the same thing with the harmonics. That way whenever your friends are around you can take it off and show them your "pretty" rifle, then when they leave slip it back on and you have a "shooter" again.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
The slight velocity loss will not be noticed, by the animals you shoot.

Exactly, and I thought load development was part of the hobby.

I also don't like the Boss.

If it were my rifle, however, I think that I would have rebarreled and rebedded it, to get a twenty four or twenty five inch barrel and top velocity and accuracy.

But I do sympathize with your desire to saw the Boss off the end of the barrel, and I would have only a few worries about the approach you took.

The keys to me would be that accuracy and velocity should not suffer too much, and that the rifle's balance and handling should not be adversely affected.

The Boss was an idea whose time should never have come.

So, Snell doesn't like the looks of the BOSS, and he cut it off.
It's his rifle, and it sure looks better to me since the circumcision..
I think knobs on the end of rifle barrels look like crap...

Snell,

I meant no harm to you from my post, it's just the way I feel about rifles...they are a tool. I don't care too much about the way tools look as long as they do the job they were disigned for as good as any can.

In my opinion, I have rifles to accurately send projectiles to my intended destination. The BOSS system is brilliant. You can find a safe max load if you are a reloader, and then simply tune the BOSS to shoot the bullet into one hole. If you are not a reloader, you can buy the factory ammo you want to shoot and tune the BOSS to shoot it into one hole. Don't give me that crap about how loud they are...we all wear hearing protection. Or you can get the non-ported version.

Yes we reload and tune our loads to be accurate as our hobby and derive all kinds of personal satisfation from it. I wish I had a BOSS on every one of my rifles because I derive a heck of a lot more satisfaction shooting tiny groups and hitting tiny distant targets with ease than I do from the trials and tribulations of finding accurate loads. My guns would last a lot longer and my pocketbook would be a lot fatter too not having to shoot all those components down range in search of THE LOAD.

quote:

To me, the beauty of a tool like a rifle is inherent in its perfomance. A rifle which shoots "pretty" IS usually pretty enough for me. A rifle which is cranky and which I have to constantly treat and feed "just so" to get it to perform well always has at least a bit of an ugly side to it from my point of view.

Well Said AC..

In closing, if you can talk to your gunsmith and get that BOSS, I would even buy it from you, or since you hate it anyway, you could send it to me....I'll pay the shipping.

I'm serious.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Snell,

I meant no harm to you from my post, it's just the way I feel about rifles...they are a tool. I don't care too much about the way tools look as long as they do the job they were disigned for as good as any can.

In my opinion, I have rifles to accurately send projectiles to my intended destination. The BOSS system is brilliant. You can find a safe max load if you are a reloader, and then simply tune the BOSS to shoot the bullet into one hole. If you are not a reloader, you can buy the factory ammo you want to shoot and tune the BOSS to shoot it into one hole. Don't give me that crap about how loud they are...we all wear hearing protection. Or you can get the non-ported version.

Yes we reload and tune our loads to be accurate as our hobby and derive all kinds of personal satisfation from it. I wish I had a BOSS on every one of my rifles because I derive a heck of a lot more satisfaction shooting tiny groups and hitting tiny distant targets with ease than I do from the trials and tribulations of finding accurate loads. My guns would last a lot longer and my pocketbook would be a lot fatter too not having to shoot all those components down range in search of THE LOAD.

quote:

To me, the beauty of a tool like a rifle is inherent in its perfomance. A rifle which shoots "pretty" IS usually pretty enough for me. A rifle which is cranky and which I have to constantly treat and feed "just so" to get it to perform well always has at least a bit of an ugly side to it from my point of view.

Well Said AC..

In closing, if you can talk to your gunsmith and get that BOSS, I would even buy it from you, or since you hate it anyway, you could send it to me....I'll pay the shipping.

I'm serious.

Understood
Please also understand that I view rifles in the sam way, purely a functional tool and I also keep my hunting rigs simple and similar to aid in function under all conditions.
The BOSS on this rifle worked very well and I understood its function intimately. Even though this rifle shot tiny groups with full power 225 grain bullets I could never warm up to it no matter how hard I tried. Beautiful wood, deep blue gloss blueing Supergrade furniture and fittings whats not to love? I had the rifle 10 years trying to get used to it, I put a "CR" on it (the muzzle Brake eliminator on the BOSS ) because I hate muzzle brakes (not because of looks) and in 10 years and all that I could not love this rifle. In one simple stroke I had it cut off, Sold the BOSS on E-bay and had it crowned and blueing touched up and voila I have a new rifle that I am really impressed with its fit, balance, feel and I'm sure after some target sessions, function.
Trust me I'm not a fancy rifle guy I have tools but this rifle now may get some use being 3/4 of a pound lighter and not quite as weildy in the woods.
If you really want a BOSS I'm betting I can find you another!

Now, I will admit I was ignorant, I had no idea that th eboss was a tuning system, I thought it was just a brake. but I checked back in on here and found that out and went and watched a video.

while some of you may love load development, to me it is a pain in the ass. I don't mind loading, but working up loads, testing velocity, all that other hassle, yeah, I could do without. I just don't have a lot of time and would rather spend it shooting or hunting.

can these boss be installed on guns or they only come with browning rifles?

here is an idea, everybody would agree a banded front site looks good on a rifle, you'd have to do full rotations (or thread fine enough that a single full rotation would give very little movement) but what about one of these designed to look like a banded front site? That would be slick.

Red

I have a group of Elk hunting buddies that make the trip to Colorado each year. We hunt on our own, after paying a rancher a trespass fee to cross his land. We then hunt BLM ground on a mountain range behind his ranch. There are 14 to 16 each year. 8 of those hunters, all experienced hunters with many a Bull under his belt, hunt with a .300 Win mag Model 70 Winchesters with the Boss system. If you will remember Winchester offered those rifles only one year, Browning still offers them. Those rifles are tuned to the tee with 180 grain Nosler Partition or North Forks loads. All basically the same load of RL-22 and Fed 210M primers. Those hunters don't think their rifles ugly, I assure you. Their beauty is in what they will do when the shooting time comes up on the mountain. They all wear ear plugs around their necks for when the shot comes. The remainder of the group shoot a .270, two .358 STA's, a 7mm Wby, a 7mm Rem, a .308 Norma, a .270 WSM and as far as the last one, no telling what he will bring, but no doubt about it, the rifle will be a fine shooter. For what it is worth, that is the way we do it. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
8 of those hunters, all experienced hunters with many a Bull under his belt, hunt with a .300 Win mag Model 70 Winchesters with the Boss system. If you will remember Winchester offered those rifles only one year, Browning still offers them. Those rifles are tuned to the tee with 180 grain Nosler Partition or North Forks loads. All basically the same load of RL-22 and Fed 210M primers. Those hunters don't think their rifles ugly, I assure you.

Sounds like a case of mass hypnosis to me.

Yea,

Their rifles outfitted with the BOSS that shoot every bullet in the same hole have a hypnotic effect.

My A-Bolt .223 has hypnotized me too.

I bought a Browning Medallion Boss in a 22-250 when they first came out. I took it out and sighted it in, a lengthy process of around 40-50 rounds, and ended up with some really good groups considered the barrel set up which was a thin 22".

I fiddled around with the Boss setting and ended up with a setting that was very good and off we go hunting coyotes. I took one of our sons with me and after setting up a stand in comes a coyote. He was following the calls and it ended up being around 70 yards when I popped him. Prior to hunting I had shot all the sighting in rounds with ear plugs and muffs. WOW was that monster load!!!! My ears were ringing profusely and my son also. I had shot that coyote without any hearing protection. I asked my teenage son if he wanted to shoot the rifle and he declined quickly.

I called up Browning and talked to a customer rep and told him the story and also the fact that there were no warning labels or info and no disclaimers on the noise level. He was very understanding and said "Would you like to trade that rifle for another Browning firearm ?" I said that I had my eye on a Browning shotgun A5 Mag 12 but that the retail value of the shotgun was greater than the retail value of Medallion. He replied "That's not a problem at all and upon receipt of your Medallion we will return ship your Browning A5!!!!!!"

I was very impressed with that amount of customer service and sure enough a couple of days after I shipped off the Medallion here comes a brand new A5.

I found the Boss to be as advertised according to the accuracy that could be obtained but was debilitating to shoot without ear protection. I have not since be interested in the Boss set up even after they changed out the features later but have used suppressors for big game rifles where sound has been a factor or used some 2nd generation Vais muzzle brakes with a 1-2 decibel increase.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
... Prior to hunting I had shot all the sighting in rounds with ear plugs and muffs. WOW was that monster load!!!! My ears were ringing profusely and my son also. I had shot that coyote without any hearing protection. ...

No, that level of total STUPIDITY in teenScum is no surprise at all to anyone who has wasted time reading his posts.

When it comes to Firearm Incompetence, teenScum sure sets the Standard of Ignorance. Pitiful and Pathetic!!!

I also have cut the BOSS off my 338 Win mag. Did it several years ago, and never missed it. I tried the non-brake'd BOSS also, it shot like crap with that thing on there. Never did find a "sweet spot" with the CR-BOSS, not on my rifle. Plus it just screamed "UGLY".

Mine's cut just back of the threads, and yes, you can still see faintly, the last of the index marks on the muzzle end. Big deal. It shoots great still, every bit as good as it did with the original BOSS on it. Yes I did have to redevelop the load, slight variation in powder charge, and seating depth, but the load it likes is a max charge of IMR 4350 and a 225 Partition.

With some effort, starting with the rifle like it is "new" to you, I'm sure you can dial in a good load.

Those that prefer to "diddle" with the BOSS settings instead of load development, either way, you're shooting loads and making adjustments, back and forth. I don't see how one is any "better" than the other.

If you want a "noise maker" on the end of your rifle, great. Your choice. Some of us choose not to. The recoil isn't worth getting worked up about. My 375 H&H doesn't have a brake on it either. I hunted elk with it for a few years until I got around to cutting the BOSS off my 338. Now my 338 is my elk killing tool again. Life is good.

When I bought mine, it was the only wood stocked 338 win mag model 70 in town at the time. I literally called every gun shop I knew of in town. If I could have found one without it, I would have bought it instead.

Hotshit,

At least some of us are still out there hunting, not just "pretending" through their keyboards... any luck finding any pictures of those "thousands of deer" you've killed?

8300+ posts... AR posting is your full time job, isn't it? And you talk about "wasted time"

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
... Prior to hunting I had shot all the sighting in rounds with ear plugs and muffs. WOW was that monster load!!!! My ears were ringing profusely and my son also. I had shot that coyote without any hearing protection. ...

No, that level of total STUPIDITY in teenScum is no surprise at all to anyone who has wasted time reading his posts.

When it comes to Firearm Incompetence, teenScum sure sets the Standard of Ignorance. Pitiful and Pathetic!!!

Wow, that's a little harsh. So, you hunt with hearing protection?

Naw,

That's not "harsh" for Hotshit. Just wait, he's just getting warmed up. He even wears hearing protection when he pounds the keyboard, which is about all he does...

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
... Prior to hunting I had shot all the sighting in rounds with ear plugs and muffs. WOW was that monster load!!!! My ears were ringing profusely and my son also. I had shot that coyote without any hearing protection. ...

No, that level of total STUPIDITY in teenScum is no surprise at all to anyone who has wasted time reading his posts.

When it comes to Firearm Incompetence, teenScum sure sets the Standard of Ignorance. Pitiful and Pathetic!!!

That's a pretty ignorant post.

Why the hate for the guy? Got a hate on for the guy or what?

Loosers defending the resident Board Lier - teenScum. Ah yes, birds of a feather. But, you all are still missing a few of the stooges - chuckee, jeffee, slam, beafoole, etc.
-----

Hey Snellstrom, Never mind the people who think you should have left the BOSS on it. It is "your" rifle and you absolutely should do with it as you please.

One of my Deer Killing buddies has a (rag) M70 with a BOSS in 270Win( ). He fiddled with the BOSS until he nearly drove himself crazy. Finally just used the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method to get it to shoot well.

He put one of those non-ported BOSS "Thingys" on his because he had enough sense to know the ported Thingy would be LOUD(apparently unlike a bunch of the resident fools).

Your rifle looks great without the Thingy!