Interesting, Pac-Nor barreled my 6.5/308 months before RP came out with the 260, got a blueprint of the cartridge from the ammo factory in Lonoke and confirmed that I could fire factory ammo. Worked fine, inc. factory brass.

I had a 338/06 but it was around 95-97 or so and dies were 'custom' so it must not have been a saami spec ctg yet.

I HOPE they keep things simple-308 necked up JUST LIKE the one I have had made up for 6-7 years in my drawer-with a 200 ballistic tip.

That bullet may be too deep seating. That can be a limitation but for its use, not really. I see it as a medium range big game ctg.

HOPEFULLY factory specs will be true, I dont believe reloaders will gain much if any speed over published, but some factory ammo of many kinds fall short ofnspecs when tested.

I have a hunch that Federal may be using noncanister powders, so we may not be able to duplicate factory load velocities in the 338 Federal...Rusty.

I'll take the 8x57 with 195 gr bullets loaded to it's full potential over this .338x08 anyday!

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
I'll take the 8x57 with 195 gr bullets loaded to it's potential over this .338x08 anyday!

As much as I like the idea of the 338 Federal, I confess, I already have put together a freakishly accurate 8x57 with a 21" that is hard to beat...

My only concern about the 338 Fed is bullet performance at 200-300 yds. All 338 caliber bullets were designed for 338 WM velocities - I am even wary of getting reliable expansion at extended ranges with a 338-06...

9.3x62:

quote:

My only concern about the 338 Fed is bullet performance at 200-300 yds. All 338 caliber bullets were designed for 338 WM velocities - I am even wary of getting reliable expansion at extended ranges with a 338-06...

That's a valid concern, as is the truthfulness of the predicted muzzle velocity.

However, most of today's premium bullets are a lot smarter than the "hard" and "soft" choices we had a generation ago. In fact, I think the only real benefit today's premium offers is the ability to open at relatively slow velocities ("far away," for instance), while still not coming apart at the more typical under-100 yards shots most hunters face, regardless of magnum's capabilities. Because of this, we can reasonably expect today's premium bullets to perform well at lower velocities than yesterday's "hard" bullets.

It's reasonable to take guidance from the bullet maker on the minimum opening velocity (2,000 fps? 2,200 fps? or whatever) and use that velocity to determine the max effective range. If (big "if") the 338 Federal 210 can reach 2,630 fps as advertised, I don't think we'll need to be concerned about bullet performance out to 200 - 250 yards. It should be similar to 338 WM out to, what, 450 - 500 yards?

Jaywalker

I just started hunting with one of Federal's test rifles this weekend. I am shooting the 185 grain TSX. I have not had a chance to chrono it yet, but I have spoken with Federal personnel about it and have no reason to doubt their velocity claims - they can do a whole lot more with powders than we can. The cartridge shoots well, has mild recoil and (no surprise here) is effective on game. I shot 3 whitetails with it this weekend from various angles with execellent results, but I plan to test it on some bigger game over the coming months.

I can see why handloaders and rifle cranks doubt the use or future success of this round, but I think it is a useful cartridge - particularly for lady, youth, and recoil sensitive hunters who want to launch a bigger bullet at elk, moose, bears, or plains game without getting the snot knocked out of them. If you have no need for a mild medium or already have a favorite like the .338-06 or .35 Whelan, the .338 Federal may not be for you. But I think there is certainly a place in the market for a mild medium bore with a decent selection of factory ammunition.

Greg,

Is that a prediction that handloaders won't be successful at gaining the factory's velocities?

Jaywalker

I will withhold offering an opinion on that until I have a chance to chrono the final loads and play with some hand loads. The ones I have now are not the final version - Federal called to let me know a new and improved lot shipped out to me Thursday. I will report back with an update after I shoot some bigger animals and chrono this thing after the first of the year.

Maybe it would have a place in my battery. In a rebarreled FN/FAL shorty with 300 grain bullets for personal defense!

Damn! I'm already about 4 projects behind now!

quote:

My only concern about the 338 Fed is bullet performance at 200-300 yds. All 338 caliber bullets were designed for 338 WM velocities - I am even wary of getting reliable expansion at extended ranges with a 338-06.

Well a 210 Grain partition will open up reliably down to 2000 fps.. and a 200 Ballistic Tip will open down to 1500 fps... I think they quit making the 180s, but if the round sells, maybe they will bring it back....

the 338 Federal or a 338/08... my reloading pick would be a 200 grain Hornady SP anyway....

I wouldn't feel under gunned for most game out to 300-350 yds... beyond that... I don't think I have any reason to be shooting at it that far in the first place... Just IMHO...

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by Greg R:
I just started hunting with one of Federal's test rifles this weekend. ...

Hey Greg, Always great to hear first-hand game-killing experience with a cartridge. Interesting they would use a TSX.

Are you at liberty to tell us what rifle they built it on?

Does the "new lot" also use the TSX?

What drives any cartridge is ammo availability. In this case, it's up to Federal to keep it going, which should not be too difficult considering that Federal ammo has already developed a reputation for quality, and it's offered at a fair price all over the US. Not only that, but I can see Federal loading .338 Federal HE ammo, and this ammo will be kicking on the hill of the standard .338WM loads. This would of benefit only to those who want a little more reach out of their .338 Federal, not to the average hunter.

I don't really have use for a .308, since I use a .338WM for all my hunting in Alaska. However, there is a large .308 following in the US, and those hunters, shooters, and reloaders will certainly be attracted to the .338 Federal.

The .338 Federal should be popular enough with deer to elk hunters who like short non-magnum actions.

Another wildcat that in my view would be an "all around cartridge," from Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego would be the .375 Taylor. Hopefully Federal can jump on this one before someone else does.

quote:

Originally posted by Greg R:
I just started hunting with one of Federal's test rifles this weekend. I am shooting the 185 grain TSX. I have not had a chance to chrono it yet, but I have spoken with Federal personnel about it and have no reason to doubt their velocity claims - they can do a whole lot more with powders than we can. The cartridge shoots well, has mild recoil and (no surprise here) is effective on game. I shot 3 whitetails with it this weekend from various angles with execellent results, but I plan to test it on some bigger game over the coming months.

I can see why handloaders and rifle cranks doubt the use or future success of this round, but I think it is a useful cartridge - particularly for lady, youth, and recoil sensitive hunters who want to launch a bigger bullet at elk, moose, bears, or plains game without getting the snot knocked out of them. If you have no need for a mild medium or already have a favorite like the .338-06 or .35 Whelan, the .338 Federal may not be for you. But I think there is certainly a place in the market for a mild medium bore with a decent selection of factory ammunition.

Exactly my points: The .308 crowd will certainly be attracted to this cartridge.

quote:

My only concern about the 338 Fed is bullet performance at 200-300 yds. All 338 caliber bullets were designed for 338 WM velocities - I am even wary of getting reliable expansion at extended ranges with a 338-06...

The lighter and relative soft .338 bullets will work just fine out of the .338 Federal, since they will be coming out the barrel much faster than the heavier ones. There are plenty relatively soft .338-caliber bullets, from Nosler to Woodleigh.

The same bullet manufacturers also produce tougher .338 bullets. For example, the Partition Gold is tougher than the standard partition, the Partition designed to Lazzeroni specifications is much harder than the standard Partition, and so forth.

Seafire, I like your thinking.....Hornady 200 should be great, expand and penetrate, the Ballistic tip 200 overtakes the 180 in an '06 when I ran #'s and it WORKS-accurate AND effective.

I believe the Ballistic tip-200 gr being a bt will push the edge of fitting into case w/o potruding into powder capacity, but it may be fine-depends if mag box is 2.75 or 2.85, some even go 3.0 I believe....Montana actions,,,,Kimbers?

Anyway, I hate Nosler's price on bullets when there is an option, for deer and a moderate velocity projectile, Hornady's 200 may be the ticket on deer all the way around-and it should be accurate. Occasional elk would get a 185 Barnes OR a 210 partition. A few test shots to check POI and I would be set to hunt.

Oh, in grizzly country, either bullet above would be nice to have in chamber....Chub Eastman downed a griz at point blank.....210pt in an 'o6 version.....at that range, I would think -not prefer to try.....that the 338 Fed would do the same deed.

[QUOTE]

Anyway, I hate Nosler's price on bullets /QUOTE]

check out nosler factory seconds under reloading here.

http://www.noslershop.com/

Don't overlook the 200gr SPeer either. I use them for practice in my .338-06 but they would be fine for deer size game & even elk past 100yds (I find them a bit soft up close). The 225gr Speer GS may be short enough to be usefull, but it will be hard to beat the 210grNP as an all round bullet in this one. Now to find a M700SA for a project rifle?!

Many people seem to feel that there is no use for this cartridge, since we already have the 358 Winchester and the 338-06. The big question is, how many new rifles do you see in these calibers? Weatherby made 338-06 rifles for a while. Browning makes the Blr for the 358. This seems to be about it! If several manufacturers produce rifles for the 338 Federal cartridge, it will be a definite advantage for sportsman who like a larger bullet in an easy to manage rifle/cartridge combo. Even if the cartridge flops, it will always be easy to make cases from the 308. This chambering also appeals to me because one could also easily rechamber for wildcat cartridges like the 338/284, or by opening the bolt face, the 338/350 rem mag or 338 wsm.

I was looking at one of my Rugers in 243 this evening.... Ruger has a longer magazine in their short actions than does Remington....

I have always hypothesized that it is because they chamber the 6mm Rem in their short action.... but they chamber their 257 Roberts and 7 x 57 in their Long Actions...

I can see a new stainless barrel on this rifle... with a 200 grain Hornady with an MV of about 2250 fps for thick brush hunting... essentially duplicating the old 33 Winchester.... Which Parker Ackley considered a good " thumper" as he put it, in his writings...

Have given thoughts to a 20 inch Magnum contour barrel to absorb a little more of the recoil ( not that I consider it that much, but others might)... I don't care for a featherweight barrel... and PacNor Won't build a featherweight barrel on anything bigger than 30 caliber....

A 1 to 4 power scope on a stainless Ruger action and a grey laminate stock...I think you guys talked me into it!

cheers
seafire

It is probably an OK catridge and some folks will use it because they like to give new rounds a try. It will probably be like many of the short and fats - almost as good as some catridge we already have. The 338-06 and 338 Win Mag come immediately to mind.

Seafire,
Getting into mischief again I see!
That Ruger/.338 fed would be outstanding indeed!
My .358 win has a 20" barrel and I find it to be just a tad muzzle light, very fast to aquire a target with, but little "hang" to help it stay settled.
I envision a Remmington CDL sa with their 24" tube (that maybe swinging too far, eh?)in the .338 fed or maybe the Kimber 84M even better. One of those in the Montana would be awsome as an all-arounder. Balance is the key IMO.
If Kimber would chamber for it I think it would become quite popular.
I believe that Hornady still makes a bullet for the .33 win that could also be loaded down a bit for woods deer or teaching kids or just plain fun practice and still get good performance.
There seems to be quite a bit of interest in the short action bolt guns these days. Most everybody makes one. Lighter seems to be better. Gun makers have tried to stuff WSM's into modified or lengthened versions there of and folks are finding out that they kick like hell and aren't much fun to shoot.
Maybe this is the answer to the best "heavy" for that short action platform and remain user friendly to the shooting public.?
I do know that I have been hoarding a Sako Forester rifle (23" tube) that I have been planning on reboring into a .260 Rem. But now I'm torn...what a fun gun that would be. BT53

Agree on that Sako rebore, kick myself selling 2 243's.....L579 and Newer AII, also wanted to rebarrel to 260 but thought the 6BR and even 338/08, which is why I made a round long ago with 308 case and 200 Ballistic tip.....looked good but never go around to it-now the industry has saved money for me to get into one.

I would think a Sako would be HARD to beat for a solid hunting rifle platform. SMOOTH and love the fixed ejector when you want to pluck brass.

Hot Core,

The rifle I have is a Sako with a Hart barrel. It is one of Federal's test rifles. However, Federal is introducing the .338 in conjunction with Sako, so I imagine it will be available in at least 2 or 3 configurations off the bat. I am anxious to get my hands on a Finnlight in the new round.

The new loads are 185 grain TSX's, too, but look for a 180 grain Accubond and a 210 grain Partition to come out at the same time.

With conventional powders the 338 Federal will shoot 200 grainers as fast as the 308 shoots the 180's for a bit over 3000 FP energy. Using the Federal HE technology, the 200 grainer will easily make 2750 to 2800 fps, equalling the 338-06.

My concerns about 338 bullets at 338 Fed velocities are not entirely specualtion. On the occasions that I hunt deer-sized game with my 338-06, I do so with moderate loads - a 200 gr bullet at 2500-2550 fps or so. Using 200 Nosler BT or a 200 Speer (I've not tried this with teh 200 gr Hornady). In my admittedly small sample (less than 10) deer taken with loads of this type, expansion has been poor at 225+ yds, frequently "pencilling through," often with a tiny exit hole and caliber-ish sized damage to the vitals. Some deer have dropped at the shot, but a number have taken off and run 100+ yds. In fact, the two longest "trailings" I've ever dealt with were with these loads.

I realize the Nosler advertised 2000 fps for partitions to "expand properly" and I think there is also a figure for BTs, but I have started to wonder exactly what they mean by "proper expansion."

Anyway, perhaps my experience is isolated. All I can do is report what I've witnessed...

I don't get it! all you guys are drooling over this "new cartrige" like its some kind of magic cartrige! Well it's not magic and it's not new. It has been around for sometime now. It will not equal the .338-06 in a sorter barrel it just can't. I saw a few post back and one guy says he can't wait for them to bring out a .35x308....MFG that's a .358Win.

T/C Nut, Sorry if everone does not like Vanilla.

I would snap up a Winchester M-70 in a heartbeat in 358 Winchester IF they would produce one. I MIGHT buy a BLR, but I really want a Short bolt gun, and would even enjoy a #1 Ruger in 338 Fed, OR 358 Win.

I do not disagree the 358 can do a great job, and unfortunately I had to settle for a 350 RM (Ruger Stainless) as that was the only 35 cal bolt gun I was interested in......that is being manufactured currently.

If I had gobs of $$$$$, I would custom build a 358, perhaps in the future.....but if the 338 does what I need it to.....then I won't need a 358.

On 9.3's comments, 338 bullets were made initially with the Win Mag in mind and jackets are likely built accordingly. I read where someone claimed the 200 btip is HARDER than the 210 PT!!!!! It is intended for LARGE game but out of my '06, the Btip at 2909fps muzzle flattened deer to the 200 yard mark that I took them. I would think the 200 hornady is 'softer' and would expand easier way out there, and it may be the best bet for deer, though I hear the PT 210 is soft up front to expand the front half easier......I doubt the ranges this new round will be used for that expansion will be a big issue as I would think most game is taken under 200 yards, I know a bulk of mine was under 100. Though 2 were further, 250ish and 400, the 400 yarder was killed with a 6BR 105 amax at 2800fps, deer went about 25 yards. Lungs destroyed and bullet did exit.

Amazing what shot placement can do with 'lesser rounds'

Here's some interesting values:
# 180 grain Nosler AccuBond -
# +2.7" at 100 yards, +1.6" at 200 yards, +/-0 at 233 yards, -5.6" at 300 yards; MPBR = 274 yards. 185 grain Barnes Triple-Shock -
# +2.7" at 100 yards, +1.5" at 200 yards, +/-0 at 230 yards, -5.9" at 300 yards; MPBR = 271 yards. 210 grain Nosler Partition -
+2.8" at 100 yards, +1.1" at 200 yards, +/-0 at 219 yards, -7.8" at 300 yards; MPBR = 258 yards.
This is not just a woods cartridge. Recoil is said to be in the neighborhood of 20-22# in an 8# rifle. BT53

Here is the entire article. Well worth the look. BT53


http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_federal_first_look.htm

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
I'll take the 8x57 with 195 gr bullets loaded to it's full potential over this .338x08 anyday!

I second that.

Ok, Federal is saying that the .338Fed. can push these bullets @
180 grain Nosler AccuBond at 2830 fps.
185 grain Barnes Triple-Shock at 2750 fps.
210 grain Nosler Partition at 2630 fps

At what barrel lenght..?

TC,
I dunno. Don't know that anyone else here does either. Sakos hunter models run 22 7/16", or something weird like that. Supposing that's what they'll use on the new issue .338 Fed.
In the august 2000 edition of Pedersen's Rifle Shooter magazine, Wayne van Zwoll penned a good article entitled "The Mighty .33 Magnums". He finishes his fine article with some comments and loads for the .338-08, of which he had experience with two owned by his pal Ken Nagle.
Kens model 70 Win had a 24" barrel. His model 88 ran with 22". Here are the two loads shown by Wayne and the text indicates they are from the 24" tube.
46gr accurate 2015, 185 BarnesX = 2810fps

Ooops, fat fingered last post prematurly.
The second load:
44.5gr accrate 2015, 210 nosler = 2530 fps.
Federal is in the ammo loading business, they should be able to get to this level w/o to much fuss IMO.
BT53

quote:

Originally posted by T/C Nut:
Ok, Federal is saying that the .338Fed. can push these bullets @
180 grain Nosler AccuBond at 2830 fps.
185 grain Barnes Triple-Shock at 2750 fps.
210 grain Nosler Partition at 2630 fps

At what barrel lenght..?

Like the 358 win, this number uses a fairly short bbl. My conservative computer says that 99% of max potential velocity in the 338 fed can be had from a 22.36 inch bbl. Full load density and the right burn rate could be had from AA2230.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
T/C Nut, Sorry if everone does not like Vanilla.

I do not disagree the 358 can do a great job, and unfortunately I had to settle for a 350 RM (Ruger Stainless) as that was the only 35 cal bolt gun I was interested in......that is being manufactured currently.

Huh....I didn't say anything about the 358 Win's performance. What do you mean "Sorry if everone does not like Vanilla ?" BTW..Let me know if you want to get rid of that Ruger .350RM.

quote:

I don't get it! all you guys are drooling over this "new cartrige" like its some kind of magic cartrige! Well it's not magic and it's not new. It has been around for sometime now. It will not equal the .338-06 in a sorter barrel it just can't. I saw a few post back and one guy says he can't wait for them to bring out a .35x308....MFG that's a .358Win.

TC, I was not putting you down but just illustrating every shooter/hunter has different tastes, and needs, not to mention tolerance for recoil, etc.

I enjoy shooting and like to get many rounds down a bore when at the range to learn my gun.

That chuckhawks article is very well written and I like that ballistic calculator someone posted above.

So much wisdom and knowledge, I learn more each day and enjoy hearing all sides.

I do believe reading someowhere that the TEST rifles have custom barrels, and I strongly assume they are 24", but it is MY guess only, as it is often what many non-magnum ctg are spec'd at, any real world difference likely will not make much difference in the field but I do strongly believe that the #'s advertised should be very achievable and what to expect from Fed factory loads AND I do believe with good powder selection as the 2015 above-(notice we save time, money, energy) since someone else did the intitial homework.

I think Chuckhawk was right, MOST deer are killed under 100 yards as the bulk of hunters are not at the level of shooting skill as many on this board, much less the ranges we spot/see game. I live in the south and deer LIVE in the thick stuff, sometimes venturing out but think of all the deer killed by bowhunters and the ranges they find, shoot, harvest at.

I LOVE shooting, and long distance shooting, but my 400 yd kill (my PB) with my 6BR was too easy after shooting it at the range so much, the deer really never had a chance.

Taking deer at VERY close ranges has given me the most enjoyment but I will take them at whatever range needed or possible, as the shots present and my judgement to shoot or hold.

I plan to take a few with my Marlin 357, likely open sights just for giggles. 158's at 2000+ is very intriguing vs pistol velocities.

Oh, as far as the barrel length, the expansion ratio on that 338 should give great efficiency in 20-22" just as the 358 Win and many other med. bores of 08/06 capacity. I think a 22" can duplicate federals data with good handloads.

JMO

One more point, I have and likely will take more deer in the future with my 6BR, BUT, it is ONLY for selected shots and conditions as I will not use it from all angles and in all conditions, not to mention it is a heavy single shot #1 that does not handle quickly as I want for a woods rifle. Shots in the woods often happen quickly as you all know, if you don't get on the target fast, they may be quickly out of sight moving behind more brush.

I DO NOT have any interest in a ultra-light weight shorty ie. M7 Rem as for me, they are harder to shoot because they often are TOO muzzle light, and the 338 bore likely would be very bad, =a med. sporter or heavy sporter just as are on the Win Mags would be fine with me cut at 22". That is what I would prefer. I could go down to 20-21.


Oh, TC, I will try remembering you if I ever did let that new Ruger stainless 350 go, but I believe it is going to find a permanent home...unless a new 338 Fed or 358 Win takes a preference and it may very well where I hunt.

Howdy folks! This is my first post on this forum as I just found it, and glad I did. Looks like a great place to swap stories and share info.

I got to say that this new offering from Federal has me intrigued. One of the things that caught my eye was the way it's being marketed. I didn't see it as an attempt by Federal to go head to head with another cartridge. Best I can tell their claims are relatively low recoil, comparable energy with the 7mm mag., good velocities, in a short action. They also weren't affraid to come right on out and say that this isn't a long range cartridge.

The main issue that has me somewhat confused, (and I'm sure someone here can enlighten me), is how did they do this?
I've only seen pictures of the cartridge, but it doesn't look like the case has been changed, other than a bigger bullet stuffed in the case.

I can understand how the WSMs and SAUMs are supposed to get a more uniform and efficient burn, but I can't figure this one out.

I am not sure I understand your question.

Are you wanting to know how it performs out of a standard 308 case?

If so, any cartridge gains efficiency improvement as bore size goes up, as expansion ratio improves so long as appropriate powders are used, and you typically see faster powders being used in larger caliber ctg's on the same case.

There is simply greater surface area for the powder to act on the base of the bullet, and more internal space for the powder to burn in the bore, all things equal in the larger caliber cartridges-given the same ctg case.

For the handloader, the Federal 338 might not offer anything new. However, since Federal is putting their name on this cartridege, we might eventually see a much greater selection of bullet types and weights than we would normally see from a factory. Certainly more than we would ever see in 8x57. That could be attractive to someone who only shoots factory ammo.