http://www.raacfirearms.com/Los_9-1.htm

I found this on the internet, and wonder if it's worth considering?


Also see:

http://www.raacfirearms.com/Volk.htm

I would like to see one in person.

what i read about them, they are a little bit loose and has not so good accuracy. But spetznatz use a Dragunow style rifle in 9,3x64 and they have used with good result i Chechnya and some other places (Afghanistan and Iraq) . thay see it as a medium sniper rifle like the 338 lapua is used in the west.

Carcano91 who is a member here has a Tigr sporting model rifle in 9.3x64 (the civilian version of the sniper rifle) and he loves it immensely. I hope he posts here about his experience with his rifle.

As far as the bolt rifles are concerned, I have no idea about this particular design - they weren't available when I worked in Russia - but I have written to the company concerned and shall check them out. There are some very high grade guns made in Russia as well and I think it is a shame that some of these never come to the USA - the KBP Shipunov guns for example.

Let's see how these budget guns turn out.

Besides the one from Russia that started this discussion, does anyone know of a production rifle being chambered in 9.3x64 anywhere in the world?

If so, is it available in the USA?

Regards,
KB

The German company Frankonia currently lists their Frankonia Favorite Safari Luxus in 9.3x64. It sells for 1,399 Euros and is a Standard 98 mauser with classic stock, sporting sights and stock.

I would much rather have one than a Zastava.I have had a couple in smaller calibres. They used to make them on DWM actions but I am not sure if that is still true.

They are simple but very rugged guns with all steel sights, stocks with oil finish allegedly treated for tropical conditions, and a barrel band. Many Tanzania Game guards have them and they work for decades with no maintainance of any kind. They likely work fine right out of the box.

Frankonia has an export department at export@frankonia.de People there usually speak English. Their phone number, direct dial from the USA is 011-49-18 05 37 26 79. There would be at least a 9 hour time difference from Alaska. If you called at 6 am in Alaska it would likley be 3 pm in Germany.

My 9.3x64 is a Frankonia, it's a fine rifle.
The main reasons for liking it are that it's on a 98 action, balances very well, is easy to carry and thumps game as hard as a 375 without the extra magnum action rifle weight.
I have shot mine with max loaded 285 grain bullets from the prone position, recoil is none too violent.
Any one who wants a x64 would do well to buy a Frankonia.

The 9,3x64 is a great caliber. I've played with a wonderful custom built on a Pre-64 M-70 Winchester. I think in the US the most practical way to a 9,3x64 is to just have a Action of your choice properly rebarreled and set up for the wider than normal case.
The number for Frankonia Jagd might be real handy when trying to find some brass! It can be pretty scarce over hear and they had it on the shelf last time I checked in the Stuttgart Frankonia................DJ

Blaser had a rifle in that caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
Carcano91 who is a member here has a Tigr sporting model rifle in 9.3x64 (the civilian version of the sniper rifle) and he loves it immensely. I hope he posts here about his experience with his rifle.

At your beck and call. I used it in championship recently. Very well controllable in rapid-fire series (5 shots between 16 and 25 seconds). At the end of the four series, the barrel smoked nicely. The gun is rather accurate.

I used RWS DK factory loads. Both Barnaul and LVE load the 9,3x64 in civilian loads (LVE also makes one unavailable military sniper load with steel-core FMJ bullet).

The only problem is that the Russian and Bjelorussian POSP scopes have too short eye relief with only 68 mms. But the open sights (which I used in match) are excellent.

Carcano

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
http://www.raacfirearms.com/Los_9-1.htm
I found this on the internet, and wonder if it's worth considering?

Having handled it several times, I would say:
No.

Okay, maybe for under 300 US-$.

Carcano

Carcano, I agree.
A 9.3x64 with a 21.6 in barrel, is in my view, too short, further I would not buy such a rifle with a birch or beech stock and finaly it's too heavy.
On the positive side is the magazine capacity of 5 rounds is good.

Blaser still makes 9.3x64 for the R93.

This is the Russian military sniper ammo from LVE Novosibirsk:



And here is the civilian Barnaul hunting ammo:



Carcano

Yeah, but what is the 9mm caliber in the auto rifle???

quote:

THE SAIGA 9-02 IS AN AUTOLOADING RIFLE with a synthetic buttstock and fore-end. The Saiga-9 autoloading hunting rifles are intended for hunting big and medium-sized game under various climatic conditions. This rifle chambers the 9x53R cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Blaser still makes 9.3x64 for the R93.

Yes and they are marginaly better than the Russian model.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by D99:
Blaser still makes 9.3x64 for the R93.

Yes and they are marginaly better than the Russian model.

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
Yeah, but what is the 9mm caliber in the auto rifle???

The Tigr-9 is chambered for the 9,3x64.

The Saiga-9 and one of the Medved models are/were chambered for the 9,3x53R (a necked-up 7,62x54R, factory loaded by Sako and LVE).

Here is a pic of the Tigr-9:



Here is a pic of the Saiga-9:



Carcano

quote:

a necked-up 7,62x54R, factory loaded by Sako and LVE

thank you!

OK you guys, now I think I'm about to become confused.

I see on the web page: http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga_9-02.htm

I think they have a few typos there, but I sent them an email message asking for clarification. I simply didn't see this rifle when I previously looked at the web site, and the first time I looked at the specs, I thought I read 9.3x64, as it seems that some of you did. I do not think this is chambered in 9.3x64, but instead in 9.3x53R. If this rifle is available in the USA, well I don't know what to think now. Maybe it's something really special. This could be a real discovery. I'm wondering just how good those iron sights are? Personally, I wouldn't shun it because it's an odd cartridge in the USA. I say this because the brass can easily be made from the 7.62x54R or the 7.62x53R, and this brass is readily avaiable. Lapua makes the excellent x53R brass.

I think this is the 9.3x53R referred to by carcano91, but with a synthetic stock. I also think it is the same cartridge he used in competition rather than the 9.3x64, but I could be wrong about that. My guess is because I do not see this SIAGA being offered in 9.3x64. If it is the 9.3x53R then the 21.8" barrel would be plenty long.

For your information, this 9.3x53R cartridge should be excellent. It is a derivative of the 7.62x53R, (.308 bullet) which is the Finnish military round. Furthermore, the 7.62x53R is a derivative of the Russian military round – the famous 7.62x54R (.311 bullet). With the right rifle and shooter, most certainly any of these three cartridges are very competitive.

This 9.3x53R is probably close to the ballistics of the 9.3x57. I get this info from the Vihtavuori/Lapua data manuals I have, which is interesting regarding the history. Apparently the Finns created this cartridge to get around some restrictive laws, and to hunt moose. They simply necked up their military cartridge to the readily available – for them – 9.3 bullets. They did likewise with 8mm bullets.

Anyway, it’s unfortunate that this cartridge is not more well known in the USA because I think it is excellent in any action which it will feed well in, including the Encore, and any of the semi-autos or bolts which will feed the 7.62x53 or x54 will also feed the 9.3x53R.

Thanks for the interesting conversation. Keep it up.

KB

looks like the ungraceful child of a rem788 crossed with a cz medium... with a nagant as a grandparent.

299, sure, i'd have one... 500? no

the dragunov is a semi auto, or, more specifically, normally operated in that mode, as it is a precision weapon, like an AR 10 sniper

jeffe

I got a response already to my email inquiry. I suppose this means it's not 9.3mm, but 9mm or probably .356". I dunno?

Probably a moot point anyway. Just another strange 35 caliber. We already have enough of them.

jeffeosso, Are you saying that this Siaga is a dragunov is a semi auto? I am not familiar with the Russian stuff, names or terms.


Response to my email inquiry:

RUSSIAN AMERICAN ARMORY COMPANY
WWW.RAACFIREARMS.COM

THE SAIGA 9-02 CHAMBERS A 9X53R ROUND. THE MAG IS A 5RD MAG. THE RIFLE WEIGHT IS A MISS PRINT. THE RIFLE WEIGHTS 8.9LBS. THIS WEAPON IS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE US AT THIS TIME, BUT IT IS ON THE LIST TO BE IMPORTED. THIS RIFLE IS ONLY AVAILABLE IN THE 9X53R CALIBER.

THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST

The dragunov is a (highly) modified kalisnakov design (notice i didn't say AK, as that means aotyamate kalisnakov model 1947) .. as well as the saiga, though of different origins.

if they are waiting for annex B regulations to change, it will be AT LEAST another 18months for them to be considered for import to the US

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I got a response already to my email inquiry. I suppose this means it's not 9.3mm, but 9mm or probably .356". I dunno?

If I say it is a 9,3x53R, then it is a 9,3.

It's only the Russian nomenclature (not to be confused with the Nomenklatura) that might mislead here. It had also misled me for some time in the past, alas...
The military load of the 9,3x64 is also called 9x64, but in each case, it is the same bullet diameter.

Best regards,
Carcano

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:

If I say it is a 9,3x53R, then it is a 9,3.

It's only the Russian nomenclature (not to be confused with the Nomenklatura) that might mislead here. It had also misled me for some time in the past, alas...
The military load of the 9,3x64 is also called 9x64, but in each case, it is the same bullet diameter.

Best regards,
Carcano

Now, that's a relief. Of course I thought you were correct all along, and I bemused the subject because there was enough conflicting info (especially from the distributor) to cause me and perhaps others some slight confusion. I'm glad we cleared this up.

It simply didn't make sense for the chambering to be 9mm rather than 9.3mm, when the Finns already invented - so to speak -the 9.3x53R.

In my opinion, the 9.3x53R maybe makes this rifle worthwhile. In 9mm, it would be too unusual in the USA.

Anyway, it would be darn good fun to shoot.

Thanks, and Best Regards,
KB

Carcano 91,

Thanks for stepping in here. I was wondering whether the Medved rifles were revived after they were discontinued in the late 80s/early 90s? If I remember right they were offered in the 9x53R, weren't they?

Kabluewy,

The guns are already in the USA and are available with the company's distributors.

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
I was wondering whether the Medved rifles were revived after they were discontinued in the late 80s/early 90s? If I remember right they were offered in the 9x53R, weren't they?

Originally, in 9(,3)x53R, indeed. But the presently revived Medved rifles are not chambered for this cartridge, but for the .308 Win.

Carcano

The Tigr sniper rifle is for sure a 9.3x64.

The AK based rifle is a 9x53R.

The Russians really like the 9.3x64 as a sniper rifle, and the Russian bear hunters love it as it's fast, accurate, and kills big brown bears dead.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
The Tigr sniper rifle is for sure a 9.3x64.

No.
The Tigr is (exclusively and only) a civilian hunting rifle. The prototype of a military sniper rifle is called SVDK.

quote:

The AK based rifle is a 9x53R.

50 % right. The Saiga is based on the AK-47, while the Medved was (allegely) based on the Dragunov.

quote:

The Russians really like the 9.3x64 as a sniper rifle, and the Russian bear hunters love it as it's fast, accurate, and kills big brown bears dead.

Yes and no, as to the moniker "sniper rifle". The Speznaz guys who tried it may have liked it, but apart from a a few trial prototypes, it is nowhere introduced. All SVDKs so far have been prototypes.

Carcano

Carcano,

Ok, if your so smart tell me where I can get a Tigr 9.3x64 in the USA?

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:
50 % right. The Saiga is based on the AK-47, while the Medved was (allegely) based on the Dragunov.
Carcano

Carcano,
you know you are using semantics on this, rather than cold hard facts... this is like saying the 358 winchester isn't based off the 30-06 because it's a redsigned 308 case.. which itself is a redesigned 30-06 case.

the Dragunov is a scaled up and modified rifle, based off the 47 kalisnakov design. just like an ak74 isn't a kalsinakov design (he was dead then, right?)


the reason it's listed as 9mm to the russians is that even then 9mm Makarov is a .365 bullet.. and a .366 bullet, with a .358bore, is going to be called that...

exactly the same as why the russian 7.62 aint.

jeffe

I thought Kalishnakov was still alive!

Anyway, Jeff your welcome at my fire anytime!

Just checked out your website, some nice stuff on there.

I have another year in Italy before it's back to the states. I'll send you an action and one of Lawson's 90% inlet thumbholes for the 338 Lapua project, when I get back.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
tell me where I can get a Tigr 9.3x64 in the USA?

You can import them from here:
http://www.waffenschumacher.com/shop/index.htm

Price is (1690 € - 16% VAT =) 1420 €uros

But it's also available in Italy.

Carcano

That is outrageous, I bet you could buy 6 of them for that in Moscow.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:

Anyway, Jeff your welcome at my fire anytime!

Just checked out your website, some nice stuff on there.

I have another year in Italy before it's back to the states.

I'll send you an action and one of Lawson's 90% inlet thumbholes for the 338 Lapua project, when I get back.

Man, sam here.. anotehr year in italy? at least it aint france!!

you really want to build a tactical 338 next year? ...LOL.. man, what have I done??!?!

Actually Jeff, I would prefer to be in France, you can hunt and own guns in France it is part of the Status of Forces agreement (SOFA).

Our SOFA here in Italy sucks. No guns for Americans or Brits.

They are taking the guns out of the Spanish SOFA. So I was in on the tail end of that. 2 great years in Spain.

Gentlemen,

I just received a very detailed catalogue from the Russian American Armory Company and they have several different models of rifles and shotguns on sale including some with wood upgrades which look nice to my eye. There is a semi auto rifle (not the Medved) in the 9x53R and they offer ammunition for it as well through their distributors.

They are nice people to talk to and whoever is interested in their products would do well to talk to them.

Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by mehulkamdar:
There is a semi auto rifle (not the Medved) in the 9x53R

Yep, the Saiga-9.

quote:

and they offer ammunition for it as well through their distributors.

Oh. Now that is very interesting news indeed. Thanks !

Incidentally, I just got the price quote from LVE for their 9,3x64 ammo. Somewhat more expensive than Barnaul at US-$ 782 per 1000 rounds, FCA Novosibirsk, but still a trifle compared to the hideous RWS/RUAG prices.

Best regards,
Carcano

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:


Incidentally, I just got the price quote from LVE for their 9,3x64 ammo. Somewhat more expensive than Barnaul at US-$ 782 per 1000 rounds, FCA Novosibirsk, but still a trifle compared to the hideous RWS/RUAG prices.

Best regards,
Carcano

Do they have a distributor in Canada?