If you need extended range shots, most don't. If you can handle the recoil, and shoot it well. If you can afford the steep price for ammo. Basically it boils down to what you want and are willing to pay for something. I know this one guy who is always after the biggest and best. To him it is worth it. He does not reload, shoot great distances, and likes to be able to talk smack.

As I stated I have shot the 30 and 338 weatherby actually rather extensively. I load for alot of people and especially with a brake I enjoy shooting them. I probably target 700 to 1000 rounds for every round I fire at game. Two of the easiest rifles I have ever worked up loads for were Accumarks in 30 and 338 378. I have never balked at the diffrence between 45 grains of powder and 60 even though percentage wise it is substantial. For some reason though when I foot the bill I have a hard time justifying 115 grains of 7828.
As far as cool goes I don't hang with a crowd that knows or cares about the diffrence between rifles or cartidges, but I do like to play with them and eventually want to try them all. I am bored with the 308 and 06 case mostly because I load and shoot sooo many rounds with other peoples guns I just don't have any interest left. Maybe that's why I like the 260 so much, I only load for mine. Anyway, I think I will wait and see what I come across and be it RUM, 340, or 338-378 whichever sings to me at the right price is the direction I will go. I am a sucker for Weatherbys in an HS stock though.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Wayne:
I have been shooting moose most of my life with a .308 win. I bought a 300 RUM. 7 year's ago, and have shot 2 bull moose with it so far, beleive me , i would NOT go back to the .308 win. The 2 bull's were shot behind the shoulder in the boiler room, and both went straight down, got love that.

Considering a 30-30 has taken moose in the past the 308 is clearly adequate for the task provided the right bullets are selected.

So, not to say you were under gunned for moose before but you are clearly over gunned today and to he honest, anything more powerful than the 308 would have shown greater performance. I do agree that the bigger and faster will always offer better performance but it just isn't always needed. Why not just use a 470 nitro, 577 T-Rex or 50 BMG, because you do reach a point of diminishing return.

Everyone thinks of the 308 as being equal to the 06 but with larger bullets it is most certainly not equal. There is a 200+ fps and 500+ ft lb. difference between them using 200 grain bullet along with the added .301 sectional density which is significant in terminal performance. The 6.5x55 swede using 160 grain bullets with a .328 sectional density has been taking moose in scandinavian countries for over a century so the bullet choice must have more to do with it than velocity.

It comes down to what is doing the work, the velocity or the bullet and obviously if we combine the two you get the benefits of both.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I am bored with the 308 and 06 case mostly because I load and shoot sooo many rounds with other peoples guns I just don't have any interest left.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I don't really have an interest in 338 win. Capable I'm sure, just too boring to me.

I know what you mean about B-O-R-I-N-G. Kinda like this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
...I think I will wait and see what I come across and be it RUM, 340, or 338-378 whichever sings to me at the right price is the direction I will go. I am a sucker for Weatherbys in an HS stock though.

Sorry Dave, didn't mean to make you read it. Just bouncin an idea off the ol' AR folks. I'll try to have a more interesting topic next time.

I just love my .257 Wby Mag, however, my shooting buddy has a .25-06 that shoots just almost as good as the Wby, but has less recoil and is much less expensive to load for. So, my honest opinion is that what you get with the Wby Mag, for example, isn't really enough better than a standard caliber to be worth the extra expense and recoil.

But, from a different angle, if you really like a particular super magnum, and you enjoy shooting it, why not get one.

IMO, they are not.

I have a new appreciation for cartridges in the 2900 fps range firing bullets with high BC's.

The 6.5mm cartridges that fit that description like the 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington and the like have no recoil, are economical to shoot with about 43 grains of powder, have longer barrel life, and in a rifle set up properly can hit targets out to 1700 yards (I've done it).

Unless you need to kill animals at over 1000 yards all the time or just want one to knock down a heavy steel plate, the Ultra Mags are unnecessary.

I'm a HUGE FAN of DRT (dead right there). Where I primarily hunt it can mean the difference between an easy recovery or hauling something out of a 350 ft deep canyon. Then there's the issue between land ownership and DRT becomes a great asset. Animal runs 100 yds. and jumps a fence and you cannot proceed......sucks.

DRT is possible with many calibers depending on your shooting ability. I prefer the 338wm. Whistle pigs to Elk the do-it-all caliber for me. It's sooooo much fun to see them just drop.

Magnums don't guarantee DRT. Nothing does.

-nosualc

quote:

nosualc
Posted 30 December 2010 01:18
Magnums don't guarantee DRT. Nothing does.

-nosualc

I totally agree. I've owned a few magnums in my time but Im down ti only one now. I don't want to carry it up & down hill any more. It weighs over 10 pounds, so it is now my beanfield rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by nosualc:
Magnums don't guarantee DRT. Nothing does.

-nosualc

There are many things that can aid in the DRT, nothing guarantees it. Bullet choice, speed, bullet weight, caliber, and so on can play a role in DRT. I agree nothing will guarantee DRT, but their are aids in the scenario.

Nosler 225-gr Accubonds shot from my .338-.378 Weatherby have sufficient velocity at 750 yards to produce 1-1/2 inch exit holes on deer. The extra velocity also reduces wind deflection. However, two deer, both does shot at a little over 400 yards ran about 200 yards after being hit. Both were lung shots and with large exit holes. I also had a well hit shed-antler buck hit at 450 yards run over 150 yards. It seems that more energy does not always mean quick kills

quote:

It seems that more energy does not always mean quick kills

Far and away the most DRTs I've ever shot was with .24, .25, and .26 calibers.....FWIW.....and I'm not talking about magnums here.....243 Win, .257 Roberts, and 6.5 X 55

Even a 8-point Wisconsin buck that was well hit with a .375 H&H ran about 200 yards before piling up!

My view is based on what is generally needed for a hunting rifle and not for tactical or sniping applications. For soft game the 7 mm and .300 calibers are typically the most popular and so faster and faster magnums have been created. In the quest for higher velocity I can briefly sight an example of how bigger cases were designed in the .300 caliber cartridges:

30-06 Spr
300 Win Mag
300 Weatherby Magnum
300 Ultra Mag
30-378 Wby

The main drawback of the .300 Magnums is recoil, which is more than most shooters can handle and so most 300 Magnum shooters are prone to flinching, which causes erratic shooting - this has also been commented on in various articles in gun magazines. The 300 Win Mag offers the least amount of recoil of the various SUPER MAGNUMS. If you can't shoot accurately, it actually becomes a distraction rather than a virtue.

Fairly recently (in 1999) Remington jumped on the current high performance bandwagon by creating their own beltless magnum and designed their .300 RUM cartridge for long range hunting. It's based on a blow out .404 Jeffery case with a 30 degree shoulder. It has a rebated rim which is not preferable in my opinion. This monster has 20% more powder capacity than the .300 Win. Mag. and 13% more capacity than the .300 Weatherby Mag. Factory loads with 180 grain bullets run at a MV of 3,250 fps.

In similar fashion Weatherby responded in 1996 by chambering their Mark V rifle for the huge .30-378 Belted Magnum. The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum is probably the limit of what can be accommodated in bolt actions as the .378 case looks much like a belted version of the .416 Rigby case, on which it was based. It propels a 180 grain bullet at a MV of 3,420 fps - being 170 fps faster than the .300 RUM.

Case life and barrel life are very short for both the .300 Ultra and the .30-378 Wby due to the massive amount of powder burned per shot. That makes for a high operational cost over time to replace barrels. Recoil is severe, particularly in the relatively lightweight factory rifles that they are chambered in. Even if you build them on heavy rifles with 26" barrels with monster scopes, they are still unwieldy implements for walk and stalk applications. Consider the negatives .... so, sometimes "MORE" is "LESS." These are the two most over-the-top .300 Magnums ever introduced by major rifle and ammunition companies. Over designed - much like a Mona Lisa with a moustache !

That leaves us practically with the only viable .300 Magnum in my opinion, namely the .300 Win Mag (even though I prefer the fading 300 H&H with 200 grain bullets). The following is perhaps the best summary of what can be said about the 300 Win Mag and is arguably the most popular magnum for elk hunting, all factors considered.

http://elkhunter2.tripod.com/300.html

For medium distance hunting, I believe the 30-06 Spr is still king - at least here in SA, and with very good reason. It is so versatile ... go down to a 150 grain bullet and you have the equivalent of a 270 Win, 180 grain bullets are the De Facto standard, go to 200 and 220 grainers and you upscale for bigger came at shorter ranges. In a way the 30-06 Spr is indelibly part of Americana that is still with us, no matter how long it has been around (1906). With modern present day bullets, we have pushed the envelope, I am sure it will be around for another 100 years.

The bullet is doing the actual killing, and not the cartridge.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
If you're not a good shot then yes.

For those that know how to shoot, no.

I think that you have that completely reversed. If anybody can gain some benefit (and that is a big "if") it is the practiced long range shooter. For a poor or indifferent shooter, the idea that a magnum will make up for inaccuracy will surely lead to disaster.

On the other hand, while a .308 is adequate for moose, I think that stating a .300mag (ultra mag or whatever) would place one in the category of "clearly overgunned" is equally ridiculous. When you consider the vast array of cartridges, from .17Rem and .22Hornet all the way up to .500 and .600 Nitro Express, then the .308 and .300Mag are practically kissing cousins. Claiming that one is adequate, while the other is too much gun, simply makes no sense.

John

If you can shoot them well, then go for it. I love the Weatherby rounds and can shoot them without any issues. Practice is the key and learning not to fear or anticipate the recoil.

As already noted here, it is really just a matter of preference. My one super magnum was a Sako TRG-S chambered in Lazzeroni 7.82 Warbird. My first surprise with the rifle was that it was incredibly accurate. Clover leaf groups out to 300 yards were the norm, at least for the first ten rounds I could get down range. After that, the very heavy recoil started to take its toll. I shot it for two years before I broke down and had a muzzle brake installed. Accuracy did not seem to suffer and it was actually pleasant to shoot in terms of recoil. BUT, it was not pleasant to shoot in terms of muzzle blast. I had to wear ear plugs and ear muffs just to get through a target session. I could clear the firing line of other shooters with two rounds. I suspected it was capable of killing small mammals with the sonics of the muzzle blast alone.
I really did love that rifle and had hopes of doing some long range shooting, but after I killed two deer with it, I decided to go back to my 7x61 Sharpe & Hart as my main hunting rifle. The first deer I shot at about 200 yards and there was considerable meat damage. The bullet took out the proximal humerus, blew up the heart, turned the lungs into liquid and tore an enormous exit hole. Basically, it left me with backstrap and hind quarters. The second deer I shot was at 100 yards and the carnage visited on that beast was worse and right then and there I decided to give up on my long range shooting plans. I do like the Lazzeroni magnums, but they are intended for a dedicated long range hunter.

I like efficent cartridges that get the job done. As you move up in caliber then more powder is justified, but once a case reaches a certian size per caliber it arrives to the point of diminishing returns and more powder is no longer worth it..

Are they worth it? In a word, "yes". The key to north american game animals retirement system is 180gr .30 cal bullets leaving the muzzle at or in excess of 3,000 fps.

Generally, faster speed equates to lower tajectories and that equates to leathel hits at greater and lesser ranges holding on the same spot.

For general hunting it is often difficult to estimate range accuratly without known distances or range finders. Magnum velocities allow more for a greater margin of error in range estimation.

Speed kills, especially when it keeps the bullet in the kill zone.

Are they worth it? In a word, "yes". I find that most folks judging the really big magnums have never fired one and in some instances have never even seen one. Until you have held one in your hand, learned to shoot it, shot and consistently taken game with a 30/378 Weatherby I say B.S. There is nothing else like really living the moment.

One of the most deadly shooters I've ever known was my best friends dad. He was a Korean war veteran, he owned one rifle for big game and I watched that man get numerous one shot kills, some were incredible shots. He knew the trajectory of his rifle and knew how to work it, Id put him and his 06 up against any whizkid with his whizbanger any day and twice on opener..

Are they worth it? Not in my book. Your endurance at the range will absoloutly vary.. And by the way, keep the damn things away from me at the range please, especialy you whizkids with the freakin muzzlebreaks..

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
IMO, they are not.

I have a new appreciation for cartridges in the 2900 fps range firing bullets with high BC's.

The 6.5mm cartridges that fit that description like the 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington and the like have no recoil, are economical to shoot with about 43 grains of powder, have longer barrel life, and in a rifle set up properly can hit targets out to 1700 yards (I've done it).

Unless you need to kill animals at over 1000 yards all the time or just want one to knock down a heavy steel plate, the Ultra Mags are unnecessary.

I just built my third 260 yesterday. That thing has less wind drag @ 1000 yds than a 300 magnum and you can shoot it all day long. I cant tell you how many times Ive seen guys go to the range with their uber mags and couldnt even finish shooting one lousy box! They are developing some skills there! And the muzzle breaks.. Good lord, rediculous.

When it comes to Elk and such you need more poop than a 260 will deliver. But the market has definatly gone overboard with the lust for power.

As often happens on these forums, this thread shown that there are two distinct schools of thought concerning the magnums.

First, there are those who believe that the extra velocity yields a flatter trajectory and a harder hitting bullet. They feel that these advantages are worth the extra recoil, blast and cost.

I would put myself in the opposing school of thought. For MOST people in MOST situations, I believe that the extra recoil that accompanies the magnums isn't worth it and is in fact a detriment to success.

First, most people don't need the extra range, and aren't sufficiently skilled to take advantage of it. With ANY cartridge at over 300 yards, you need to know how to deal with drop and wind. Most people do not. Even fewer practice it.

Second, I think that an extra 200-300 or even 500 fps does not turn a bullet into a death ray. In fact, just the opposite, I think most bullets perform better at moderate velocities.

Third, I think hunting effectiveness is all about bullet placement. Extra recoil yields to a degradation in accuracy, as it leads to flinching, and less practice.

You've all seen it. Ever go to a rifle range the week before hunting season? I've got a friend who can't shoot a .270 without flinching. I've got a cousin with a .338Mag who can't shoot it more than 8-10 times in a setting, yet insists he needs the extra thump. These are healthy, fit, military trained, young men who are both accomplished hunters. Recoil gets to them, even though they'll never admit it. Me? I deer hunt in a slug area and every year I dread practicing with my 12ga slug gun. It kicks like a mule on meth; way more than any rifle I have ever shot. After 10-15 shots I've had enough.

This is not to say that the magnums don't have a place. If you can tolerate the recoil without an accuracy drop-off, and you have the skills and commitment to take advantage of the extra velocity, god's speed to you, you are IMO, a rare guy. I think the vast majority of folks with magnums are kidding themselves.

-nosualc

There's a lot of posts here about normal ordinary magnums and not the RUMs and X-378 variety of super magnum. IMO there's quite a difference and as for the super magnums I'm not at all interested!

To each his own. Many/most of my rifle calibers are based on the 30-06. (6mm-06, 25-06, 6.5-06, 270 win, 30-06, 338-06, and 35 Whelen), but I admit that I own a 338 RUM and I like the damn thing.

Yes it kicks, but it sure is accurate. I bought it because I don't like or own a belted mag and the gun shop gave me a "steal" of a price.

I have 500 rounds of brass and enough primers and powder to not worry about the overbore. It is actually the only magnum I own.

So do what you want to do. I did.

Barstooler

I don't like recoil, nor horric muzzle blasts and noise.

The people who confuse cartridge size with gonad size can keep them.

I don't own one.

I have rifles chambered to two of the Weatherby rounds, .270 Wby and .375 Wby, and I love them both. Great cartridges; accurate, flat, and hard-hitting, but not for everyone.

Times have changed. Before range finders and ballistic reticle scopes, the MAGs were an advantage - that is, they gave a longer point-blank range for hunting, which resulted in a few more kills.

But, with modern range finders and scopes, if you know your trajectory and you have premium bullet, then there's very little advantage of a 30-378 over a 30-06.

Regards, AIU

answer for me is yes and no. In normal hunting season i rarely have an opertunity for a shot past 200 yards and for deer sized game the power just isnt needed. When we do crop damage shooting shots can routinely be out to 500 yards and a 200 yard shot is a rarity. In that casse ill take all the speed i can get. If anyone tells you one of the big mags isnt eaiser to hit deer at 500 yards with then say an 06 hes never tried one in the field. Sure there an overkill at 200 yards but out at 400 plus theres no such thing as overkill. I want to humanely kill the deer were shooting and the big mags get it done.

quote:

But, with modern range finders and scopes, if you know your trajectory and you have premium bullet, then there's very little advantage of a 30-378 over a 30-06.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Ehg5640:
I have the 340, the 30-378, and the 338-378 in the Weatherby Accumark. All have muzzle brakes. With the muzzel breaks they all shoot extremely well from the bench. I have hunted in Africa with the .340 on three trips. I have found that the .340 has met all my needs on large plains game.

I'm sure he didn't say anything but I bet the PH didn't like the brake.

It boils down to what you really want from your rifle.

I did most of hunting in Africa using a 270 Ackley and either a 416 Weatherby or Rigby.

I then developed the 375/404, the 30/404 and 338/404, well before Remington came up with the RUM cartridges.

My reason for that was I wanted one rifle that will suit my hunting.

Ever since then, I use the 375/404 whenever I am on a safari that has any dangerous game on the agenda.

I use only one rifle, and I hunt everything with it. From elephants, buffalo, lion and all the plains game. From duikers to eland.

Shots can range from 10 yards to over 500 yards.

The 30/404 I developed after hunging in South Africa, and found that sometimes one has to shoot across a wide canyon.

I shot an eland with a 270/404 at over 500 yards. Just thought a 30/404 would be nice to have.

I only took it on safari once, and shot animals with from 15 yards to about 500 yards.

So for certain types of hungting, they are well worth it.

Ultimately, one has to have an accurate rifle, and he can shoot it well.

Saeed,
Do you not believe you could do as well with a .375 H&H?????