Looking at the 338F - find a 185 TSX @ 2750 mv

and a 350 RM 225 TSX @ 2700

Running #s I find BOTH are w/in about 1" of the other in drop at 400 yds and both impacting around 1800 fps at that range.

Considering this, I wonder if there is anything the 350 Rem Mag will do on game to 400 yds, that the 338 Federal won't duplicate, giving the above bullet choices?

I hear great things on the 185 338 load.

Thanks.

I'm one to look at the FT-LB energy and at the range you stated the .350 Rem Mag generates a fair bit more energy and as a matter of fact If one uses the 1500 FT-LB as a guideline for elk, then the .350 Rem Mag makes the hurdle and the .338 feeble (sorry scott) doesn't!

I hear ya...the 338 shows 1501 at 360 yds....not a bad stretch....but yes at 400 it shows around 1375. I'd still think either bullet at same impact speed might well penetrate similarly as both Barnes.

Thoughts?

quote:

Thoughts?

Possibly.....I must say that the .338 Federal is quite impressive for such a "weenie" cartridge.

Put a 180 grain accubond in it with the better ballistic coefficient and see how it rolls along.

If one loads a 225 Accubond at 2400 he makes the grade easily.

I have 338 Federal in Sako 85 and I really like the round for the amount of recoil. It is a really a under appreciated round. I guess if you don't have magnum in your name you don't count! I am going to try Hodgdon/Hornady Leverevolution powder in my .338 Federal with 215 grain bullets and see if it is hype or fact. 215 GR. SIE SP .338" 2.810" 52.0C 2668 57,900 PSI

Hmmm, not run those numbers, I hear the 200 ABs are tough, but the nose might not clear OAL as well keeping case capacity in a tight SA.

Just thinking.....

Still looking at a 9.3 in a long, sure was impressive watching it flatten stuff on youtube...might be a tad smidgen better than my former 338-06 when after big game.

Looking at say a 140AB in a 7/08 at 2900, it gets you 1488 but you use 400 fps more to offset 45gr less than my first example. No doubt it would make much anything real sick thru lungs.

That said, I feel mass and frontal area must account for something

I really feel for MOST all my hunting any good 6mm thru 7mm is all I will ever need, but a few possible hunts if they come thru might warrant a mid bore. 338/358/366 are on my short list.

I wouldn't be afraid to take the .338 Federal for big game to 400 yards from the numbers I just ran on Nosler's website. But I'd pick the 225 accubond for the high BC.

If one has the inclination he can rechamber his .338 federal to .338/284 and step up the range at least another 50 yards.....it's equivalent to a .338-06 and that's no slouch!

Not sure on slick feeding, but for an SA in 338, that 284 would knock on an '06' cased door.

Thanks.

Interesting ideas, but the two are not considered to be 'same class' cartridges. Look at consumed powder, muzzle blast, felt recoil, and cartridges in magazine.

This would be like comparing the 350 Rem Mag against the 376 Steyr on heavy game, or the 270 and 7mm Rem Mag.

comparing vastly differnt weights to make the case? means one is playing silly buggers to make a point that can't be made ...

but, just pretending, let's take the 180gr 338 whatever, and a 200gr barnes TSX bullet ...

oh, and let's not pretend that forcing to fit ina 308 length action is normal for somone building a 358remmag -- its going on a mauser and we all know it

and the 220gr TSX will go, with no sweat, 2950fps ..

why there's 1000 ft/lbs of energy different aint there?

it AINT hunting past a certain distance .. and that distance is up to the hunter .. for me, that's about 200 yard.. anything past that should be stalking

the 338 federal is a 308 case.. you should compare it to the 358win .. which it looses to, in terms of SD and ME and BC .. yes, really

playinig numbers games to find where if you trump up one load and handicap another just to find an intersection that one can say "ahah! under these perfect circumstance they are equal" means that in all other circumtance before that event, one is plainly superior

wanna bet the 350 remmag is "superior" your terms, within 200 or 300, or even 399 yards, as your 400 yard measurement suggests?

face it, a 308 is smaller than a 3006 .. and while you can load the 3006 down to 308, you can't load the 308 UP to the same powerlevels, if you used the same loading techniques ...

338 federal? does nothing better than a 358 win, and can't shoot 9mm/357 pistol bullets for fun, practice, and varmits

I own one and spent a lot of time reloading for it. To me, it's a great cartridge that is probably best suited for 300 yard on Elk and 400 yards on deer.

I was able to get just over 2800 FPS with the 185 TTSX using AA2230. I've pretty much settled on the plain old 200 Hot Cor at 2600 fps. Speer claims a .448 BC so it's actually better than the Accubond which I don't understand because the Accubond looks much sleeker.

Once I bought a 9.3x62, i stopped trying to push the limits on the 338 Fed and accepted it for what it is....a really nice CXP3 round inside 300 yards. Just my opinion.

I don't get it - 180gr @ 2800 is solid .30-06 territory. What has the .338Fed got apart from less BC for your 300-400yd shots?

Great stuff, no doubt - the 350 Mag is more horsepower and in a race on that merit wins, and granted I shot pistol bullets some in mine for grins on water filled milk jugs - quite responsive and entertaining to 200 yds - Read Vaporized , much past 250 they nose dived.

As to game, Scott I'd agree, do recall Layne Simpson quoting he busting THRU elk shoulders on a bull around 314 yds, at what range a shot on elk becomes 'iffy' is likely closing in on 400 is my guess, but shot placement rules, and expansion must be had to maximize your odds.

In the end, I kill 90% of my game under 200, maybe 6-8% up to 250, and only rarely fired and/or taken game to 400.

I do say being guilty myself, it's sometimes easy to get into a debate of pitting one round vs. another on paper, yet field performance when discussing hunting is where the rubber meets the road if you will.

When looking at lesser known entities like a newer round with a unique performance window, it does help conceptually look at comparisons against other rounds that have had alot of history behind them.

Maybe I should REALLY simplify all this and shoot two rounds:

6mmBR for paper/varmints/deer to 400 yds (yes, my further deer dropped w/a 105 amax at that range LRF).

And a 9.3x62 if I really want to put the smack down on something. Nothing a good 350RM or 338/06 would not handle, and perhaps a 338F steered well.

Thanks all for the posts.

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
I don't get it - 180gr @ 2800 is solid .30-06 territory. What has the .338Fed got apart from less BC for your 300-400yd shots?

308 based case? and, as most 338 bullets are tough, one may recall the many complaints of 338-06 owners, what good is a low vel 338 especially at long ranges.

Lack of expansion for a given bullet below it's threshold of impact speed is a concern no matter what causes it, lowered mv or longer distances/low bc.

When a bullet is fatter to begin w/it seems it would be easier to expand all else equal. They simply would offer more 'drag' ...

Low vel ~ open to interpretation as long distances.

I don't view the 338F or 350RM are low vel and I view MOST modern 308/06 case sized rounds very adequate to 300-400 yds - caliber dependent for game intended. No doubt, MUCH greater range than many shooters are capable of consistently hitting vitals, yet perhaps a good bit less than the ultra long range shooters/hunters that specialize in taking game.

I think what would answer many concerns would be further tests on game and ballistic media, the latter better for giving consistent results in a controlled environment.

In a hunting scenario, one might want to drive thru shoulder or other heavy bone by necessity or choice, and it may well only enhance performance in say a stout bullet at modest speeds.

There is no doubt, bullets are all made to be either 'softer or harder' depending on intended application - round and how it will be used.

To date, MOST all I have read has been positive on field results using the 338 Federal. I don't recall alot of complaints by 338-06 owners, and the reason I built one myself, was finalized after speaking to an advocate who drove a 225 Partition thru a large Bull Elk at around 380 yds, breaking the off shoulder.

The guy advised he had witnessed/killed 9 elk from 40ft - 380 yds, all 1-shot kills. IIRC- he was the originator of the 'Buzztail' brass company, I am sure had at his disposal, any round of his choosing.

I felt it offered penetration AND expansion, combining to give good killing effect.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by JabaliHunter:
I don't get it - 180gr @ 2800 is solid .30-06 territory. What has the .338Fed got apart from less BC for your 300-400yd shots?

308 based case? and, as most 338 bullets are tough, one may recall the many complaints of 338-06 owners, what good is a low vel 338 especially at long ranges.

The 338 Feeble barely duplicates full power 8X57 performance.

And like the above example it will have inferior BC & SD.

Why all the hype?

If you're willing to drop 20% of bullet weight, the same argument could be made that a .308 pushing a 150 gr bullet 2750 fps will do everything the .338 fed will do out to 400 yds.

Honestly I just can't see the niched that the 338 federal fills. Everything I'd use a .338 fed for I could do with a .308, and anything I'd find the .308 lacking for I'd take my 350 rem mag.

You guys keep chit chating about shooting game at 400 yds. and novitiates are going to start believing that is standard practice and the thing to do. Meanwhile, back on the blue planet. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
You guys keep chit chating about shooting game at 400 yds. and novitiates are going to start believing that is standard practice and the thing to do. Meanwhile, back on the blue planet. roger

Roger shows a considerable amount of traditional wisdom in his posts and it's hard to argue with this....

There is one great thing that has happened lately that makes the "400-yard" shot much easier.....and that's the incredible accurate and long range rangefinder. This thing takes most of the guesswork out of the equation.....

Get the range within a yard all the way to 500 yards if you wish and turn the turret knobs on your scope to the appointed number of clicks and you're right on the money as far as hold over.....and yes....now for judging the wind.

If one has the exact range and knows the exact scope setting to use and has a fine rest (walking sticks can provide this) then he really has no major challenge for a 400 yard shot..... It does however require that the shooter does his homework and shoots in practice all the way to 400 yards.

to me, 400 yards aint hunting ...
do the math at 200 yards... changes most everything on the scale

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
Looking at the 338F - find a 185 TSX @ 2750 mv

and a 350 RM 225 TSX @ 2700

Running #s I find BOTH are w/in about 1" of the other in drop at 400 yds and both impacting around 1800 fps at that range.

Considering this, I wonder if there is anything the 350 Rem Mag will do on game to 400 yds, that the 338 Federal won't duplicate, giving the above bullet choices?

I hear great things on the 185 338 load.

Thanks.

I bet both would work wonderfully on whatever you may want to shoot with them.

The difference will be in impact. I bet you will most likely and more often see an increased reaction from any critter hit with the 358 RM than with the 338 FED.

I wouldnt hesitate at all to use the 308 win and a 165 X for that range and both of the other rounds send more bullet so to me its just more of a good thing.

The 308 with a 165 grain bullet penetrates quite nicely. At least it did on a moose I shot with it .

Good stuff, no doubt, 400 yds is far for many shooters under ANY/ALL conditions and wind is a factory, that said, I truly prefer getting up close and personal to anything I hunt, save I would put a limit on the big stuff like Bear should I pursue them or bump into one. If need be, I can run, but not fast enough! LOL.

Often 1/2 my hunting in my terrain is in the brush, under 100 yds. I see a rifle like a 338F or 350RM being a nicety, not necessity, should one want a generous albeit perhaps very short blood trail when using on evening hunts, esp. if you might have wet ground or it's raining....harder to seen blood no doubt.

That is the very reason I once headshot a doe around 45 yds w/a 6BR loaded w/105 AMAX. It was a DRT, but could have been worst case, a clean miss. It was dark thirty and in heavy brush and I HATE doing any tracking at dark.

If I use a 338F or another 350 in my future, it will hopefully see some use in elk country and/or up in Alaska. Barring me doing a 9.3x62....another topic...no doubt they are more than needed on WT, but do double duty all the same.

Thanks guys.

6.5BR,

For the distance you hunt and what you hunt, the 338 Fed should be perfect. The recoil is about like a 308 so it's very manageable. My 338F will probably become my primary hog thumper once I close on some land at the end of the month.

None of them impress me for all of the same reasons already stated by others. The federal isn't loaded with bullet weights that offer any ballistic or terminal performance advantage over the standard 308 or 06 and the bullet weights offered for all of the 35's are to light to offer any ballistic or terminal performance advantage either. I have crunched the Federal numbers allot trying to find a real advantage but there isn't one. It is better than the 358 because it uses the same weight bullets with better BC's so there is a trajectory advantage over an obsolete cartridge. Not much to get excited about unless you like buying into the hype!

Have to agree on both of you. That said, the 358 I like and admire as the 350, but the 35 seems to find favor in MY liking w/one bullet weight in the short action rounds - the 225. In the 338F, it's the 185 and 200s.

I like the idea of lesser recoil via less bullet wt., yet same BC for same Impact speed. No advantage ballistically, yet in my mind they ALL will kill fine when used at modest ranges w/shot placement. I suppose if I wanted a proven round like an 06 or 308, it would do as well when placed thru vitals - as most rounds do.

Yet the 30s truly bore me, I guess I like using something different than the masses, hence long ago my gravitating from 7 mag to 243 then 708, then 6.5x55, then 6.5-308 prior to the 260, to 6BR and 7BR rifles - and now back to 260 - sold a 6.5x55 recently. ALL killed fine when I did my part, never had any problem save a couple of bad hits thru the years, both at the ragged edge of legal light - NOT optimal for my placing the shot I am embarrassed to admit.

That said, I have used a 357 Lever, and handguns in 7TCU and 44 as well to take deer, hoping to use my now 41s on deer/hogs in the future.

The 338F just floats my boat you could say, seems a little more svelte than the 358, though the 350 rocks on at good speed w/225s. The 358 I would expect launches a 225 around 2500 in many short actions, vs. 2700 in the 350RM. Again, I see the 185 giving similar trajectory and impact velocity to 400 yds, which would most often be at the very farthest of ranges I would normally encounter, let alone shoot.

That said, there are no flies on the 358 WCF, let along 350 or Whelen. I do see them at their best using 225s, as 200s seem to fall out faster past say 250 yds from numbers I ran in the past.

Thanks guys. BTW Scott, did I see in another post you were looking for land in East Tx? If So you will be coming my way - I may try to go to the Market Hall show this Sat or Sun - pm me if you plan to go.