What are the advantages/disadvantages of one over the other?

The reason for my question is that I have a nice pre-64 action that I haven't decided which I want to chamber it for. I have one of the special run Ruger 35 Whelens that is shockingly accurate with factory Federal Premium TBBC's and all of the reloading equiptment. Mims Reed has my arm twisted behind my back to get me to make my project a 9.3x62. It will be one or the other, I would just like to hear your opinions of the two.

Longbob,

If both were loaded to equal pressure, the 9.3 X 62 would be slightly more powerful since the case is a little big bigger and of course it has a slightly larger bore.

The 9. 3 X 62 is legal in Africa for buffalo and it will be possible to make a trimmer lighter rifle in 9.3 X 62 than any other caliber that quialifies for buffalo etc.

The 35 Whelen will be far more practical if you want to play about with a lot of different loads because of the bullet availability from pistol bullets through to 310 grain Woodleigs.

If you were making a high level custom rifle, especially on a Mauser, then I think the 9.3 X 62 has a higher desirability factor and much more so if in conjunction with a 7 X 57. Although a 270 and 35 Whelen is not real bad though.

Mike

You might look at the 375 Scovill (375 Hawk)as well. It necks up the 9.3 case to 375 and uses 35 Whelen brass (cheaper) for the case. Loads are listed on Z-Hat.com.

Longbob,

I would go with the 9.3x62 over the 35 whelen, it just sounds like it has a nice ring to it, and from what I have read it is a very effective caliber. It has a bit of an odd-ball appeal to it as well.

Longbob,

The .35 Whelen is a little bit more slower thna the 9.3X62 for same bullet weights.

This is why P.O. Ackley has improved the .35 Whelen in creating the .35 Whelen AI.

The velocity of these two calibers (9.3X62 and .35 Whelen AI) are very close.

As I live in EU, the 9.3X62 is a better choice regarding availabilty of componants like brass, bullets,...

If you are planning to hunt North American games both caliber are good even the .35 Whelen.

if you want to hunt in Africa the 9.3X62 or .35 Whelen AI are better choices.

As a hopeless traditionalist, I believe American actions should have American cartridges and European actions should have Euro cartridges.

That being said, the 9.3 can do everything the .35 can do, and more. Versatility would rule in favor of the 9.3x62.

Looks like you are just gonna have to break down and join us here at the 9.3 x 62 ranch buckaroo!
The new CZ 9.3 I ordered for son should be here Tues. at the latest.

I think the 9.3 is the route that I am going to take. Mike mentioned that it was legal for Buffalo. Not necessarily preferred, but legal. Is it legal for all dangerous game in all of the African countries?

I have to disagree that the 9.3 is more versitile . That quality definately favors the Whelen with it's tremendous variety of bullets , both jacketed and cast . The 9.3 bullets are mostly geared for very large game . The Whelen has those plus such stuff as 200 gr roundnoses meant for the .35 Remington that would be ideal for downloaded whitetail rounds .

Finn Aagard's penetration tests showed that depth of wound channel and overall expansion would be very close between the two , given similarly constucted bullets . He also calculated that the slight capacity advantage of the 9.3 would get you a whopping 30 fps advantage , all else being equal .

The way I see it , if you are an African resident , you would want the 9.3 . But for the American shooter , the Whelen is much easier to live with . Unless you don't mind mail ordering all of your components .

Well

I have never like the 35 caliber because the bullets give up all their SD and BC compare to 338 cal or 9,3. I have never liked 35 whelen either. 9,3X62 is beeing loaded by NORMA but label says WINCHESTER with 285 grains Partitions. 9,3X62 ammo can be found in every gunshop in the world, perhaps yankees will learn too. As far as I know only one manufacturer loads 35 whelen?

You will never find a 35 cal in my gun vault.

/ JOHAN

So tell me Longbob...when are you going to start on this project? You aren't going to be a wishy, washy Charlie Brown kinda guy are you?
As far as I know... it is legal for buffalo anywhere.
It is fun to fling those old 286 grn puppies out there and not get the hell beat out of you.
Make one up and maybe we can go to the ranch and see if we can end to end some whitetails!

Mims,

I've got to get two of my guns back from Speedy before I let him start on this one. He should be finished in about a month. You know how that goes.

I'm thinking that I would like the rifle to weigh around 8.5 lbs before I scope it. I'll probably use a Shilen match grade barrel and have open sights installed. Besides function, I just like the way they look. Especially on a pre-64 action.

I've never done a rifle project before. I would like to put a nice grade wood stock on it. Do you think I could do it in the $500 to $600 range? If so, who would you suggest I get to make the stock? Do I send them the barrelled action first or can they make it and send it to Speedy to bed?

Longbob

You already know this, but I'll say it anyway...

The wider bullet selection for the 35 is only meaningful for the guy who is "rifle limited" and wants to use one caliber for a fairly wide range of game.

I'm guessing you do not fall into that category. Therefore, do the 9.3X62, IMO.

Tim

If you are building a classic, the 9.3 is the only way to go. If you invest in open sights, especially. Use simple open sights, a long barrel ( 24 to 25 inch ) a short forearm, barrel band swivel and select scope mounts that fit to that look! No Weavers or Redfields. Yes they are practical, but look at Talley!

Have fun! Hermann

Longbob...
This winter I got my self a Ruger M77 MK II rebarreled to 35 Whelen (22" Shilen stainless). I have not had the chance to hunt with it yet, but so far it has proved to be wery accurate on the shoting range.
I see a lot of 9,3 x 62 around and their field records are exellent on roes, reds and moose.

But for me it was simple. Starting with an American action, it had to be an American calibre.

If I had an FN, M98,or CZ / Brno action, I guess I would have opted for the 9,3 and build a classic European rifle.

Performencewise I cant see the big difference in the two calibers. So for me, its a toss between the blond and the redhead, and this time I ended up in bed with the readhead

The main downside of the 9.3x62 is the bullet selection. I'm not a real fan of Barnes bullets. They are the only ones that I can find in the 286 grains. Who else makes the components?

Longbob,

Because of my christian ways I pulled this off the Woodleigh site, just for you

This the link to the 9.3 bullets

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/catlog3.html

I feel that one of gods blessings to me was to have no interest in having a 9.3 X 62

Seriously, I think living in America or Australia, to get the full benefit of the 9.3 X 63 it has to be in the right rifle, which will be a Mauser and have 7 X 57 as well.

Mike

Longbob,
:
They are the only ones that I can find in the 286 grains. Who else makes the components?[/QUOTE]

Norma in Sweden made one of the most usefeul bullet for this caliber (231 gr and 286 gr), Lapua 270gr Forex and a 286 gr Mega. With these 2 bullets firm you can't go wrong.

Longbob

Again , the 9.3 is no doubt a great cartridge. If you lived in Europe , sounds like you would have an excellent choice of components . But in the back waters of North America ? Ha . I have yet to lay my eyeballs on a single box of 9.3 bullets , cases , or loaded ammo . And I scout out every gun show and shop within 150 miles .

But I can stroll into a piss ant shop in Watertown , SD and choose from several styles of .35 caliber bullets , buy a box of factory ammo , and what do I have to say about the number of 06 cases around. One easy pass thru the sizing die away from being Whelen brass ........

[ 06-13-2002, 17:47: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

sdgunslinger,

If my memory is working right, I think there is a 35 Brown Whelen which would about duplicate the case capacity of the 9.3 X 62.

The one plus that the 9,3 does offer over the 35 Whelen and its variations is being legal for Africa. For an expensive custom rifle, even if Africa was not likely, it would be nice to know it was OK. In that sense the 9.3 makes for a more complete caliber than the 35.

The 9.3 of course would allow fora much lighter rifle than the 375 H&H

Mike

Longbob,

Nosler is now making a 9.3mm Ballistic Tip - 250grs I think.

However, I think that Lapua thay I have is what you need - hehehehe

Back off Wildcatter! Before I......I......end up buying something from you again.

Longbob, you already have a good .35 whelen so the custom job should be the 9.3x62.

It's going to be a 9.3x62. I just need to load up on the components. Harry (Mims) has given me a couple of good leads on a stock maker. Speedy should be through with two of my rifles. I'll turn this project over to him once those two hostages are released.

Atta Boy!

Longbob,

Did I also mention that I have a 338-06 done on a 1954 Model 70?

Hehehehe -

Well...Lets throw more gasoline in the fire. PA Wildcatter: Are you giving Longbob .338-06 ideas? If so, he should look at an African version of the .338-06 (below).
http://sss.sabirifles.co.za/sabi338.htm

Ray,

Nice rifles!!!!!!!!!

I have owned a customized .35 Whelen Remington Model 30S with Douglass 24 tube and a 1 in 14 twist. This rifle is the most accurate medium bore rifle I have ever owned or fired. My accuracy and hunting load in the Whelen is 57.5 grains of IMR 4320 in WW case fired with a WLR. The bullet is the Speer big 250 gainer. Velocity is about 2630 FPS. Accuracy is phenomenal...11/16" at 100 yards and 1.5 to 1 3/4" groups at 200 yds. Drop, actually measured at the target at 300 yds was around nine inches if I remember right...equivalent to the 30.06 180 grain round.

I have fired many other .35 Whelens, and generally, I have found them accurate and very powerful big game rifles.

I have shot 3 elk with my rifle and load, and that big speer in the shoulder put them down right now! Bullets busted the shoulder, tore through the lungs and wound up almost through the off shoulder!

I consider the .35 with the above load the equivalent to the .338 Mag with same bullet weight. I think the Whelen is superior is some respects,as you can shoot 300 grain bullets with very heavy punch and fairly good down range ballistics.

If you read the popular gun press, you'd think the .35 Whelen was a weakling and the 9.3x62 was the son of Hercules. I've never understood the difference in attitute toward these 2 deserving cartridges. Just recently John Barsness (whose writing I like) reviled the Whelen for attaining only 2400 with 250 grain bullets. The 9.3x62 gets 2350 or so with deep-penetrating 286 grainers.

Otto Bock's baby has less case wall taper than the Whelen and the shoulder is farther forward, both equating to an increase in case capacity, but it can't be THAT much. And, Barsness' own rule says that velocity increases at a rate of 25% the increase in powder capacity. So, a powder issue it isn't.

I think most folks load these 2 rounds to different pressure levels.

The Whelen also has the disadvantage of being standardized with 250 grain bullets and barrel twists to match. I doubt many Whelens will stabilize .358 bullets with sectional densities equal to the .366/286, the standard 9.3x62 load. Moreover, heavy .358 bullets have been hard to find in the past. Northfork offers a 270 grain and Swift a 280 grain A-Frame. Hawk offers up to 300 in RN configuration, and Woodleigh has a 310 that ought to be, uh, smashing.

Just my 2 cents....

[ 07-19-2002, 06:09: Message edited by: BigIron ]

I was hoping this thread would die. Quit giving me good ideas because Harry is going to be on my ass wondering where I am on my project. So let's keep it down.

Longbob,
Do I hear the tap, tap of little hammers or the turning of little screws or the the wood chips hitting the floor? Nah....I do not!
Thou best get thy butt in gear! A rash of poop is headed your way otherwise.

Big Iron, I second your comments on the 35 Whelen. It and the 9.3x62 would be peas in a pod with the same bullets, rates of twist and pressures. But alas, they are different.

In my book, the only reason to pick either one over a 30-06 is a heavy bullet, and those START at 250 grains. Bullets over 250 grains are neither cheap nor common for the 35 Whelen, but Speer's 270 gr. 9.3 semi-spitzer costs only a bit more than their 30-caliber bullets and is widely available. (Once upon a time, Hornady made a 275 gr. Whelen bullet and Speer made a 300 gr. bullet, but those days are gone.)

Also, factory 35 Whelens have a 1:16 twist to shoot light bullets and keep pressures low, and factory ammo is woefully underloaded.

So what are my choices?

1. Spend about $500 on a factory 35 Whelen and be satisfied with 250 gr. bullets at 2500 fps in handloads or 2,350 in factory ammo.

2. Spend at least $1,500 on a custom 35 Whelen and wait 6-12 months for delivery. Spec a 1:12 or 1:14 rate of twist and be satisfied with about the same ballistics as above, but with greater ability to shoot heavy and very expensive custom bullets.

3. Buy a Sako 75 or CZ550 in 9.3x62, form cases from 30-06 brass, handload inexpensive Speer 270 grain spitzers and don't look back.

Yeah, I think that settles it. Okie John.

There is a fly in the ointment with that plan Okie . Alot of people report that the 9.3 270 gr Speer is very soft and can fail on heavy game . You will note that most of the 9.3 fans are bragging about results with Noslers , Swifts , Barnes , Woodleighs and the like .

I'd be willing to wager that a 250 gr Hornaday out of a Whelen will out penetrate the 9.3 Speer , and in fact , run right with most premium bullets in any caliber .

[ 07-20-2002, 00:07: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

Johan,

With all due respect. Please go back and re-read my statement. I was looking for other manufacturers for the 286 grain bullets. I found Barnes (which I don't care for) and you gave me a good lead on Nosler, but I am having difficulty finding other suppliers in the US for these bullets for reloading. I'm not seeing anything from Swift in 9.3 (.366) from Midsouth or Natchezz. I do know that Lapua sells the brass. It is the 286 grain bullets that are somewhat elusive in our neck of the woods.

Yo...Longbob...When in doubt...talk to Uncle Mims.
I bought the 286 Nosler Partitions and the Nosler 250 Balistic Tips from Graff and Sons in Mexico,
MO
I have 100 rounds of new Norma brass however some feel the Lapua is better quality. I am not going to enter the benchrest contest...I just want it to shoot minute of Black Wildebeest!
Get your tush back to work and make some money so you can spend it on your new 9.3 x 62. You are gonna mess around and miss deer season at my ranch.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make....never mind.