I chronographed two loads out of my 30/06 today.

Remington 180 grain Corelocks -- 2783 fps
The factory claims 2700 fps out of a 24 inch test barrel.

Federal High Energy 180 Grain Nosler. Partiitons -- 2930 fps. The factory claims 2880 fps out of a 24 inch test barrel.

Federals web site lists their 300 Win Mag loads with the same bullet only 30 fps faster at 2960.

Both loads shot considerably faster than claimed factory velocity out of my rifle. I guess I must have got lucky and got a fast barrel.

The rifle is a 98 Mauser with a 23.5 inch air guaged Douglas barrel, timney trigger, Bueler style safety, redfield one piece bases, Leupold 2/7 VXII and is glass bedded itto a ram line stock. It consistently shoots 3/4 MOA with everything I put through it.

That sure brings the '06 up to magnum territory doesn't it. Once again, the old war-horse demonstrates why it's the most popular cartridge in the world.

I see that you are in texas.What was the temperature during the testing?Was the ammunition exposed to the sun.High temperatures can result in higher than normal velocities.As well if your chronograph is a chrony,they do sometimes read high in certain light conditions.I have two chronies and have witnessed variations of over 100fps with the same temperature but different lighting.

Years ago (1997 IIRC) A buddy and I were also a little surprised to see the Federal High Energy 180s leave the 22 inch barrels of two different M700 30'06s at just over 2900 fps. Unfortunately the accuracy was abysmal, running 3-4 inches at 100 for five shots with both the Partitions and Trophy Bonded versions in both rifles. (FWIW, my M700 does not have a "fast" barrel; conventional factory 180s run in the 2600s.) I haven't bothered with the HE loads since, but I likely will once I rebarrel. Good hunting!

What is FEDERAL's secret? Anyone know?

Temp was about 90 degrees yesterday. The ammo and rifle were kept indoors and out of the sun until just prior to shooting. We were just playing around so I fired one shot each over the chronograph (yes I know that I should average several shots).

As to accuracy, the HE's group 1.5 inches at 200 yards out of my rifle. The same rifle shoots the Remington corelocks and winchester silvertips into about .75 inch at 100 yards.

It was a Chroy, but I havn't used it enough to tell if the velocity was affected by light conditions.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
What is FEDERAL's secret? Anyone know?

I read an article some time back and if I remember right they use newly developed powders that are not available to reloaders and they are loaded to slightly higher pressures.

quote:

It was a Chroy, but I havn't used it enough to tell if the velocity was affected by light conditions.

I've had my Chrony read fast if it was Bright & Sunny out and the Chrony was directly in the sunlight. My Prochrono seems to read the same no matter what the conditions are so, I find myself taking it to the range most of the time. I think I'll just use my Chrony at my shady (wooded) range or while shooting bows from now on.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Why wouldn't these special powders be available to the general public?

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Why wouldn't these special powders be available to the general public?

I would imagine that Federal is probably on the edge as far as how much they can push these things and still remain safe. They probably have concerns that some nut would try to push it even further. I don't blame them.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
What is FEDERAL's secret? Anyone know?

Federal uses special "cool burning" powders and "tamps" it into the case to compress it. They drop it from a significant height, then compress, then add more. It takes a few different drops (layers of powder) and each time the amount it is compressed is different. They insert a punch/rod through the case mouth to do the compressing. The larger the case mouth in proportion to the body, the more they can compress. Some rounds don't lend themselves to tampining such as the the smaller cal shortmags (i.e. fat case, small diameter opening). I read an article about it a while back. The article stated that the powder dropping & compressing cannot be duplicated by the home reloader due to the heights involved in the drop and varying amount of compression each layer requires.

-Lou

I seem to reacall that Seafire disassembled one of those rounds and found that it contained about 2-3 gns more powder than anyone else can seem to get in it. Obviously they would have to be doing this with some fairly slow powder. If you can get that stuff to shoot than it would be like using a WSM or something of that ilk.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
What is FEDERAL's secret? Anyone know?

I read an article some time back and if I remember right they use newly developed powders that are not available to reloaders and they are loaded to slightly higher pressures.

Not necessarily special powders, but more accurately, a special loading technique. The powders are somewhat slower than one would normally use for a given cartridge-bullet combination. The special loading technique allows more of the slow powder to be stuffed into the case. Full (or compressed) loads of slow powder tend to exhibit less pressure variation from shot to shot, thus the AVERAGE pressure can be greater than with partial cases of faster powder without exceeding an arbitrary "maximum" with a given shot. Therefore you get both higher average pressures and more total powder energy since the "slow" powder has about the same energy content per grain as the "fast" powder.

Knowledgeable handloaders have been using a similar technique for years, but don't possess either the equipment with which to super-compress the powder charge or to accurately measure the pressure -- hence factory loaded "high energy" loads can often safely reach velocities hertofore only seen in (both safe and unsafe) handloads.

I have a 26" barrel on my 30/06 and don't have to load the bullets fast because of the 2" over the norm. They all go high fps.

I know it is tempting to rejoice over a "fast barrel". But do such things actually exist, or is higher than expected velocity simply a sign of increased pressure?? I guess if the bullets go faster and loads are safe, then all should be well. But is it not safe to assume, that higher velocites simply equate into higher pressures?

About the HE loads - I believe Hornady started the trend towards HE loads with their Light Magnum series. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression they were loaded with VV 5xx series powders. Can anybody confirm or otherwise??

- mike

I've used a tapped-in, plus compressed load technique for years with my 30-06 AI. I use Re25 with 180 gr. NBT bullets. I get ~70-71 grs in an 06 AI and get 3100 fps with a 26" barrel - sometimes 3140 fps. I can get 66 grs. of Re25 in a std '06 case and (I bet) equal (and exceed) the Hornady LM and Federal HE loads. I don't find pressure signs and the case hold primers for multiple reloadings. The Hornady and Federal technique must be quite similar, but amenable to rapid manufactering processes.

Found the link to the article on Federal High Energy loads I referenced above:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3730/is_200210/ai_n9115412

-Lou

Guys, I read the article above, and Federal and Hornady are doing what I have been doing for years. Basically, they're packing in as much slow burning powder as they can using a combined tapping/packing/bullet compression technique. You can do the same!

First, there are a couple of slow burning powders with high load density - IMR7828SCC and VVn560. Re25 and Re22 also have a relatively high load density. Start with these high load density slow burners, get a 6" drop tube, tap the case with a metal spoon as you incrementally drop the powder into the case through the tube, and finally tap some more after you're finished. Go slow. Fill the case to the ABSOLUTE top of the case mouth, and seat the bullet on top of the powder, compressing the powder. Re25 compresses well without causing the bullet to extrude.

You will be amazed how much slow burning powder you can get into a case. A standard Lapua 30-06 case will accept 66-67 grs. of Re25, and with a compressing 180 gr bullet on top, you'll get ~2950 to 3000 fps with a 24" barrel. The other mentioned powders should also work well. You'll be working at 60-65,000 PSI and squeezing maximum performance from your '06. Always work up to these loads in 0.5 gr. increments - it is possible to exceed 65,000 PSI.

Also, these loads are quite accurate. You might even consider using magnum primers, but you may not see any difference in performance from std primers. Try it, see what happens - you can do BETTER than Hornady and Federal?

Hey Ackley--just want you to know that my QC program confirms your RE 25 scenario to the "T". With a 24" barrel and a 180 hornady spitzer (usually one of the lower pressure 180 grain bullets) it predicted a nearly full case to the rim with 61,000 psi and 2920 fps.

It seems to me if you want 3000 fps with a 180 gr bullet, buy a 300 H+H or 300 Winchester. What Ackley said is true, provided you are using the slowest of powders. I stuff a lot of R-22 in a 6.5 x 55 with 140 gr Bear Claws. What I seen with the lots of powder I have on hand, 49 gr of R-22 is about it above that then things stard to go down hill in a hurry. But the above load will shoot 0.5 groups for those that are interested in those things, and 2,800 fps at the MZ. Case life is ok, I limit it to four and toss the case. Only once fired for hunting. This just happens to work out in one of my favorite rifles. When you start playing at really compressed loads, your rifle better be sound and don't load cases more than a few times. The above load is fine for the fall cool temps I hunt, It's a little sticky in hot weather, back off 2 gr. for Temps above 65 deg.

Another data point:

Federal HE 180 grain Nosler Partitions chronograph at a MV of 2800fps in my 22" barrel, Winchester M-70 Featherweight in Houston, Texas (~100' above sea level and the air is pretty humid). They shoot ~1" groups in my rifle. My wife and I have used this rifle on a plains game hunt in Africa, to take several head of game up to and including zebra. This is the only hunting rifle that I currently do not handload for, as I can't duplicate this load (i.e., velocity).

There are really good powders available now for getting max performance from the '06 - why not use them.

Here are some doable loads for 180 gr. NBT in a std. 30-06 with 24" barrel. Staying at 65,000 psi or less would be safe. All these would be tap-in + compression loads - but all within reason. The std '06 is underloaded and, thus, underrated. It's a great cartridge, when loaded to the same pressures as the latest-and-greatest "magnums." The manufacturers need to sell guns - new guns - to stay in business. Try some of these powders and work-up to these loads. These powders can be extremely accurate as well. Regards, AIU

180 gr. NBT with 24" barrel

Re25/120.5% case fill/66.6g/2979/65000 (great)
N560/111.5% case fill/64.6g/2967/65000
MAGPRO/114.5% case fill/67.4g/2954/65000
Re22/114.3% case fill/64.2g/2953/65000
WXR/113.0% case fill/64.5g /2952/65000
I7828SSC/111.8% case fill/63.7g/2936/65000
H4831SC/112.1% case fill/64.3g/2890/65000

If you don't want to tap and compress too much, I'd try the IMR7828ssc and VVn560. I've used Re25 - it's absolutely super in my '06AI getting 3100 fps with 180 NBT at ~65,000 psi with a 26" barrel.

More loads for the 150 gr. NBT, if you're after flat shooting - varmints, antelope, long-range deer, etc.

Cartridge: .30-06 Spring.
Bullet: .308, 150, NOS BalTip
O.A.L: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length: 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %

N560/115.0%/68.4/3198/64842 (great load)
RamHunter/106.3%/64.5/3162/65000
Norma MRP/115.0%/67.7/3160/60208(not available)
I7828 SSC/115.0%/67.3/3159/64847 (great load)
Win760/103.9%/62.5/3156/65000 (no need to tap)
N550/103.9%/61.8/3151/65000 (no need to tap)
XMR 4350/108.6%/61.9/3149/65000
IMR 4350/108.5%/61.2/3147/65000
IMR 4831/112.0%/63.6/3138/65000
WXR/115.0%/67.3/3136/61255 (great load)

CAUTION! Always start 3-4 grs.below these loads and increase in 0.5 gr. increments, watching close for pressure signs! Stop when you see clear-cut pressure signs (earliest sign should be loose primer pockets after 2 to 3 reloadings) or when you achieve the stated velocity - I would not exceed these velocities with the powders. Also, the relative position of the various powders - that is, on the fast to slow scale - may switch depending upon hard-to-predict variations within compontents, between bullets, between powder lots.

I heard one source speculate that they apply a vaccum through the primer hole to get that much powder in.

quote:

Originally posted by FVA:
I heard one source speculate that they apply a vaccum through the primer hole to get that much powder in.

While some manufacturer's ammunition sucks, the methodologies used to produce it do not.

Even if pulling a near perfect vacuum, the measly 14 psi translates to less than one pound of compression on the powder column -- considerably less than you can apply with your little finger.