HOEHNE, For some reason the .338-06 seems to be an up and coming cartridge. I have difficulty understanding this since the .35 Whelen is fading out. I'm sure the other ammo makers will offer loads. If you're like me and hate to pay the cost of the Wby ammo, you may want to consider what I did. I bought two tapered expander buttons, the first I used to expand .280 Rem cases to .30 cal. the second expanded the necks to .338 in the Redding .338-06 die. I used the .280 cases because the chamber was a little long in my rifle and the .280s gave me the length I wanted. Standard '06 cases would be simpler. There is no reason why a reloader has to mess with such outlandish cost. If you are not a reloader, this may be the time to consider reloading. Good luck.
A year or so ago, I heard that Winchester's Custom Shop could make one for you, but I have no idea if they still do. It should be very easy for them to use one of their .30-06 actions and install a .338-06 barrel.
Pac-Nor, E.R.Shaw, and a great number of shops have barrels for it, and the price is not too high. All you would need is a used .30-06.
Posts: 2448 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 May 2002
My belief is he 338-06 won't make it far in factory guise... the 338 WSM and its ilk will pull what little rug there was from under it. I had one and think it's a grand cartridge. Still, those that have 30-06's will stick with them and those that want more will pass over it to something bigger. It also infuriates me that A. Alphin had the audacity to saddle the cartridge with the "A-Square" name...
quote:Originally posted by BigBob: HOEHNE, For some reason the .338-06 seems to be an up and coming cartridge. I have difficulty understanding this since the .35 Whelen is fading out. I'm sure the other ammo makers will offer loads. If you're like me and hate to pay the cost of the Wby ammo, you may want to consider what I did. I bought two tapered expander buttons, the first I used to expand .280 Rem cases to .30 cal. the second expanded the necks to .338 in the Redding .338-06 die. I used the .280 cases because the chamber was a little long in my rifle and the .280s gave me the length I wanted. Standard '06 cases would be simpler. There is no reason why a reloader has to mess with such outlandish cost. If you are not a reloader, this may be the time to consider reloading. Good luck.
BigBob, the main reason for the .338/06 sticking with us is that it is a much better caliber than the .35 Whelan. It has better bullets, and more of them, it is a wildcat and that frees one from the pressure limits of the Whelan which is set by SAAMI to conform to the limits of that stupid set of "clacken-crunchers" from "Rummytoon", the "pump misser" and the "auto destructor". In the real world the .338/06 is not very far short of the .338 Win. mag., and with cheaper brass, less powder and less recoil. I have been shooting a .338/06AI for over 30 years and find it to be a near perfect hunting round for the Western Hemisphere.
quote:Originally posted by richard10x: BigBob, the main reason for the .338/06 sticking with us is that it is a much better caliber than the .35 Whelan. It has better bullets, and more of them, it is a wildcat and that frees one from the pressure limits of the Whelan which is set by SAAMI to conform to the limits of that stupid set of "clacken-crunchers" from "Rummytoon", the "pump misser" and the "auto destructor".
The .35 Whelen can push bullets of the same weight faster than the .338-06. Sectional density will be slightly lower, but the .35 Whelen is at least the equal of the .338-06.
There are several excellent bullets available in .358 now; how many do you really need? One for deer-sized game, one for elk-sized game. Period.
As for SAAMI standards, since both .338-06 and .35 Whelen are based on the same .30-06 case, and they shoot bullets of the same weight, then it stands to reason that they can operate at the same pressures in the identical rifles without any trouble.
George
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001
To SDGUNSLINGER and GEORGES: I stated my honest OPINION, in YOURS I hpoe you stated as an opinion also. However, mine is not BS, just take down a stack of loading manuals and check the velocities obtained with 250 grain bullets. The .338/06 is always faster because load data for the wildcat is loaded to the max allowable pressure for cases based on the '06 case, the .270wcf. The SAMMI specs for the .35 Whelan must take into account the RIFLES for which the Whelan is most routinly chambered.
Sure richard , it is just my opinion , but I have reasons for that opinion . But why would the reloader of a bolt action Whelen worry about the function of his loads in a pump or auto ? Why can he not load it just as hot as the user of a bolt .338/06 ?
If you take the trouble to look at the loading books that post pressure data , you will soon realize why some of them put the .33 faster than the .35 . In fact , the larger bore will always beat the smaller bore if all else is equal . The .35 beats the .33 the same way the .33 beats the .30 bore .
But all this doesn't mean the Whelen is inferior to the .338/06 . That idea is what I call BS .
Assuming equally suitable powders and equal pressure for both the 338/06 and 35 Whelen, the 35 Whelen will always be faster than the 338/06 and by about 80 f/s for equal weight bullets. The 35 Whelen, when all else is equal, will be about 70 f/s slower than the 338/06 when bullets of equal sectional density are used.
If this is not the case, then Swamp on HA was right when he persisted with the view that the moon landing was a hoax.
By the way, whatever story or features etc, are raised in favour of the 338/06 over the 35 Whelen will automatically prove that the 30/06 must be better then the 338/06.
Mike
[ 08-20-2002, 03:43: Message edited by: Mike375 ]
Posts: 7206 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
ok, ok, I give up! This was not ment to start W.W. III, just my opinion. I know that loaded to EQUAL pressure the .358 bore will be more efficient than a .338 bore due to greater expansion ratio, the point I was trying to make was that the writers of loading books GENERALLY do not do so, and in defference to those who use PUBLISHED load data I was not going to propose using the same pressure criteria for his M7400/M7600. As for the bullet question, you are correct that you do not need many ONCE YOU HAVE FOUND THE RIGHT ONE! I just ment there were more choices available in quality bullets for the .338 bore, more are available for the .358 than ever before but still not as many as the .338. Can we put this to rest now, I still like the .35 Whelan, just simply prefer the .338/06 especially in the Ackley Improved version.
quote:Originally posted by hoehne: Hey Richard10x - Would like to know more about your .338-06 AI, tried to e-mail you but it was returned. Karl
Karl, my currant .338/06AI is on an FN Mauser action, 21" Shaw barrel that I fit, chambered, throated in a seperate operation, and hand bore lapped in house. It is stocked in "English Stalking Rifle" from a very nice peice of Bastogne walnut with cheek piece. I fitted checkered steel skeleton grip cap and butt plate and did the wrap around checkering in borderless 26 lpi. Sights are Williams "Foolproof" receiver sight and Shorty ramp with ivory bead. I added a "Jaeger" three position saftey and reworked the trigger to provide a crisp 3 pound let off. The bolt lugs have been lapped in and the action squared. All the metal has been deep rust blued. I did this rifle while I was waiting to work in Alaska with big dreams of it being the ultimate bear protection but thus far it has only taken Elk in Montana where it is 11 bulls for 11 shots.
quote:If this is not the case, then Swamp on HA was right when he persisted with the view that the moon landing was a hoax.
Mike... wow... it all makes sense now... you're not kidding, right?
The 338-06 is NOT vastly superior to the Whelen except in the mind's of folk's who've spent too much time with their nose in a loading manual. My 338-06 (22" bbl) ran 2,700 (just) with 225's and 2,550 with 250's... that's darn good. Still, the 35 Whelen, when it's all said and done, makes a bigger hole... SD's and BC's be damned. I'm a die hard 338 WM user... if the 358 Norma weren't "Norma" and was more available I'd use it over the 338 WM. Also, to interject more reality, there is actually a wider assortment of .35 cal (9mm) bullets for use in lightly loaded "plinking" rounds (if you go in for such stuff).
I think some of you need to read the article tittle "Medium Bores: .338-06 vs .35 Whelen" by Finn Agaard.
All the details on both are explained there, and I bet the arguments about both will also end there. The average .338-06 shoots just a little flatter than the .35 Whelen, and at least in theory .33 bullets should out penetrate .35 bullets. Also of two similarly constructed bullets and equal powders/charges, the narrower one should at least in theory be more aerodynamic (lesser wind resistance). But both of these cartridges are so close to each other (same case) that there are no reasons to argue about it. Again, please read the article mentioned above. I was mailed to me by a faithful .35 Whelen user, and it is very interesting.
Posts: 2448 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 May 2002
I think the .35 Whelen and the .338-06 are so close its not worth worrying over. Personally I'm a .338-06 fan but nothing wrong with the Whelen either. So close to each other that with similar bullets I don't think the game can tell the difference?
I tried a box of the Weatherby ammo and got 2800 fps if I remember correctly, but it shot mediocre. Too short for my long throat gun, which is set up for 250's.
Winchester used to list the .338-06 as an option in its Custom Shop M70's but didn't see it in this years catalog.
I'm another one who would love to see Remington come out with next years CLASSIC chambering as the .338-06, have Federal or Hornady load some ammo or maybe Ruger start chambering it in the M77's . Its a great cartridge.
FN
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
I've got the article Ray . In Finn's rifles he was able to push a 250 gr Nosler to 2600 fps out of the Whelen and it showed a 9.3 inch drop at 300 yards . His .338/06 got 2530 fps out of a 250 gr Nosler and it had a drop at 300 yards of 9.7 inches . (both from a 200 yard zero)
The slight ballistic advantage of the .33 bullets is canceled out by the slightly higher muzzle velocity of the .35 .........
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001
I've been shooting a .338-06 for some years now & really like it for just about anything out to 300yds. I probably would be just as happy w/ the Whelen and the bullets available today. In the past though it was another matter. Good bullets in 35cal haven't been available until relatively recently. I like my .338-06 & won't switch, even if I have to reload for it the rest of my life. It is great cartridge.
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001
Why argue about it when the 9.3x62 is avabile in the CZ 550 and the ammo would cost about the same and is a better cartrige than both the 338-06 or the 35 Whelen. However if the 9.3x62 was not avabile to me I would opt for the 338-05. Cheers.
quote:Originally posted by Brad: The 338-06 is NOT vastly superior to the Whelen except in the mind's of folk's who've spent too much time with their nose in a loading manual. Brad
That's right. It's like thinking that the 350 rem mag is superior to the 35 whelen, or thinking that the 300 WSM is superior to the 300 Win Mag.
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
Hoenhe, Unless this is a caliber that you absolutely must have, why don't you just buy a 338 Win Mag caliber in any of the gun Mfg's of your choice. Being a reloader yourself, you could download (match 338-06 specs), midload, or what ever you want to load it at. Brass would be easier, and cheaper to get a hold of. If it's gotta be 338-06 than so far I think it must be a Weatherby (ultra Light)..... Dennis
My 338-06AI was baesd on a Rem 721 action. It has a heavy sporter Douglas barrel on it, Armoloy treated, Marbles sights, Quiet Brake, Sako-type extracter. The Armoloy treatment was supposed to inhibit rust, but it produced a few faint rust spots (my 358 also shows a few faint rust spots, too. Damn treatment don't work much at all, like they said it would.) I don't rcommend Armoloy (I have no idea if they are still in business, I don't rightly care anyway) It shot 200 Hornady's and 210 Partitions to 2800. Three shots inside a nickel-size were normal groups. Recoil was like a 243. I sold this rifle to my best friend a few years after having it made. I recommend a 338-06 or it's improved version to anyone who wants one. ~~~Suluuq
You guys are funny. Battling to the death between the .338-06 and the .35 Whelen, while at the same time there is another thread in which they are fighting over the Whelen and the 9.3 x 62. What's next? The .30-30 vs. the .32 Special? I guess this is the place for such discussions.
Posts: 92 | Location: Western PA | Registered: 06 July 2002
BigBob, before he adopted the .338 Win., indeed, before there was a .338 Win., Elmer Keith decided his .333 OKH was just about the best all-around rifle for North American game. The .338/'06 is just an updated version, made to use the wide variety of .338" bullets now available.
This reminds me of an old saying... Witch is hevier, a pound of lead or a pound of sand? Whenever there it takes this long to argue wich is better, both sides must be right. I went the 338 WinMag dirrection myself
Posts: 741 | Location: NB Canada | Registered: 20 August 2002
And all ol' Elmer did was copy the .318 Westley Richards with bullets from the .333 Winchester! That's what he could get at the time. Then he thought that a fatter version with a "magnum" belt would be cool and came up with an entirely new bore diameter for reasons that have never been completely clear to me. They all work just fine and the exit holes are awesome!
Posts: 2690 | Location: Lakewood, CA. USA | Registered: 07 January 2001
Sorry, but Cartridges of the World lists the .33 WCF at .333. If Winchester had used that for the magnum it would have given new life to a grand old cartridge but I guess they worried that someone would blow himself up trying to use the magnum loading data in the old levergun. Who knows?!
Posts: 2690 | Location: Lakewood, CA. USA | Registered: 07 January 2001
I don't know why you would be infuriated by Art Alphin "saddling" the .338'06 with the A-Square name. Up until he submitted it to SAAMI as a SAAMI member and therefore standardized it, it was anyone's coice as to what dimensions it had. Now of course you can still make whatever changes you want but factory ammo is now available and for convenience it would make sense to have the chamber reamed with the .338'06 dimensions. That way if you lose your ammo, you could walk into any well-stocked gunshop and replace it. You could have your 'smith just make it A-Square chamber under the barrel shank so no-one would see it if it was really an issue.
We Montana folk apparently think alike. I agree with Brad that Alphins "A Square" on the .338-06 ticked me off too. I would have been much happier if it was left as a simple ".338-06" or what about ".338 OKH" as a tribute to Keith, O'Neil and Hopkins the original Fathers of the old .333 then .338-06.
As stated previously I'm one of those PRO .338-06 guys. IMHO a neat cartridge thats very useful either here in NA or for African plains game. Its worked well for me on elk as well as over in RSA. I would so like to see Fed, Rem or WW come out with some factory ammo as well as a standard rifle chambered for the cartridge. Remington is running out of chamberings for the yearly Classic, I've hope the .338-06 would make it one year.
I am VERY happy that Weatherby came out with the Ultra Lt Wt in .338-06 as its a neat combo for a lt wt elk rifle.
Probably a much better choice for the average Joe as a shootable .338" hunting round than the various magnums.
FN in MT
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
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