If I never read another thread on 308 vs 30.06 I won't feel like I've missed anything that hasn't been beat to death already. However, I've never seen these two batted back and forth. Frankly I can't see any compelling reason for the 7-08. What do others think of one versus the other? Virtually identical case capacity, right?

If you have a short action the 7-08 hands down in a long action a 7x57 seated long. A 7x57 feeds better in a long action. As you say capacity is basically the same with the 7x57 being 3-4 grs larger. Your magazine will determine which has the larger net capacity.

So if I had a SA and wanted a 7mm of some sort I would look at the 7-8. Otherwise a 7x57 loaded to 7-08 pressure and go hunting. My wife uses her 7x57 for everything here and in Africa.

I have been shooting a 7-08 since it was a wildcat. I have read enough "stuff" by the traditionalist that I bought a 7x57 just to see for myself.
In the real world, there is no significant difference.
If you have a good 7x57 that you like, it would be pointless to trade it off for a 7-08 or vice versa.
I find the arguments about short action and long action kinda amusing. I hunt with both and don't have a problem. Nor has the scant savings in weight ever affected how nor how long I hunt.

the x57 can shoot heavier bullets at substantially higher velocities with a standard length action which the -08 cannot. and a 175 nosler partition is a darned good combination for lots of critters out of the x57

No practical difference.
You can throw the .308 .270 .280 .284 .260 and a couple dozen more in there too !
Having said that i still want one or two of each...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by montea6b:
Frankly I can't see any compelling reason for the 7-08. What do others think of one versus the other?

If I had the choice of a LR M98 7x57 (vs) Small Ring short action Kurz 7mm/08.

the Kurz-7mm/08 would win hands down.

The Germans did release an 8x51 cartridge decades back, but didn't released a 7mm version.
Todays 7mm/08 is in effect an improved version of a hypothetical German 7x51.

I own several 7mm-08s and enjoy them. Haven't owned a 7x57 and really see no need to as the 7mm-08 does what is necessary.

Factory ammo for the 7mm-08 is loaded to a decent level. That's not the case with the 7x57 because there are still old rifles out there and ammo makers don't want to get sued should a rifle blow up. Take Federal for example, they load the 7mm-08 140 grain bullets to 2800-2850 fps while they load the same bullet weights in the 7x57 to 2660fps. Of course, if you handload this is irrelevant.

If I need more bullet mass I'll either reach for an 06 or one of my 338 WMs. I don't know if there is a difference in accuracy between the two but Dave Petzal seems to think so. Although, I doubt it would make a difference at normal shooting distances. If the 7mm-08 is more accurate, it may be because it is based off the 308 Winchester case.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/...4/petzal-why-i-7mm08

The 7x57 for the nostaligic win in my book.

The truths fit is that in smaller bullet weights the two are nearly identical. The 7-08 is generally loaded to higher pressures and delivers the same velocity the 7x57 delivers at lower pressures.

In either case, a 140gr premium billet like a TSX or ETip will do just about anything you need. I would say it's light for Eland but it's been done and certainly works given proper shot placement.

Given both hat I like is that the 7x57 in a medium or long action...or in a nice long throated single shot can take the 175 gr bullets and thats a whole lotta penetration when it's needed.

I went with a mid-length action and the 7x57 via the Swede. About perfect.

As mentioned, both are fine cartridges. Shoot them both at paper on a regular basis.

Have 2 7mm-08s, one .243 Win, and a couple of .308s....have avoided buying a .260 Remington as I have several 6.5x55 rifles.

Have two 6mm Remingtons, four 257 Roberts and three 7x57 rifles. Kind of prefer this family of cartridges.

quote:

Frankly I can't see any compelling reason for the 7-08.

Montea,

The 7mm-08 Rem is loaded with 140 & 150 gr bullets, whereas the 7mm Mauser can be loaded with heavier bullets up to 175 grains, since their twist rates differ - 9.5" and 8.66" respectively.

This makes the 7mm Mauser more versatile as you can shoot bullets from 130 grains right up to 175 grains.

Santa Claus

I like the nostalgia of the 7X57. I own 3 of them and building a 4th. It's a great cartridge. I can think of more arguments against it than I could the 7-08. That said, it simply works.

In the real world there was no need for the 7mm-08 or the .308!!! roger

Well heck Bartsche, what does "Need" have to do with it? Besides what would we have to obscess and niggle over otherwise.

Boxhead, wow! Just wow, sir...!

Being a lefty my options were very limited when I decided I wanted a 7x57, so I bought a Savage 11FL in 7-08 instead, knowing they are ballistic twins. But I still had an urge for a 7x57 so I traded off the Savage and replaced it with a Ruger No.1 RSI in 7x57. Nothing wrong with the 7-08, in fact it was an extremely accurate gun, but I just wasn't smitten by it.

Good point.....
....and the case size should be considered if you are converting an action as in switching from one caliber to another. Might be a good idea to stay in the same "class" like .308, 30-06, 8X57.... to alleviate case shoulder width and length issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Santa Claus:

quote:

Frankly I can't see any compelling reason for the 7-08.

Montea,

The 7mm-08 Rem is loaded with 140 & 150 gr bullets, whereas the 7mm Mauser can be loaded with heavier bullets up to 175 grains, since their twist rates differ - 9.5" and 8.66" respectively.

This makes the 7mm Mauser more versatile as you can shoot bullets from 130 grains right up to 175 grains.

Santa Claus

Pick your poison and go with it.


Personally, I've got two 7x57's and see no reason for a 7mm-08


Had I got a 7mm-08 first, I'd like not shoot the x57.


I do like the ability to find 175 grain loads on the shelf.

quote:

Originally posted by Boxhead:
I went with a mid-length action and the 7x57 via the Swede. About perfect.

you win!! Beautiful stick of wood. 7x57 on a Swede: well played.

Old rifles: 7x57
New: who cares, no difference at all other than on a web forum.

I never understand why the basic facts that the larger the case the more powerful the cartridge.

In factory persuasion, the 7-08 is loaded to higher pressure and that is because there are a lot of old 7x57 Mausers that have soft receivers. Same for the 8x57, but in a modern rifle the 7x57 handloaded will shoot circles around the 7-08 all things considered.

My 7x57s have a 30-06 length magazine, and a throat to match so all bullets can be seated out and I get as much as 8% increase in powder, therefore I can get better than 280 Rem factory ballistics very easy. My chronograph shows I can get better than 7 mag. 140 gr. factory ammo ballistics, keep in mind that some factory ammo is underloaded all to hell and the 7 mag is one of them. Of course it can be handloader to beat my the 7x57 loads I use.

I have been using only H414 for some 30 years in my long throated 7x57s. I am considerably over book max in grains for a std. 7x57 book max and at proper pressures.

My chronograph shows a 160 Nosler at 2913 FPS in my guns and that is a load that I have used for years..The 7 mag ammo I tested was 2852 FPS. for 5 shots. My 130 gr. Speer load is 3211, a favorite deer load. The 175 gr. Nosler is 2622 FPS and its mild but a great load for elk in the timber..

Close to the same debate ".243 Winchester vs .244 Remington". However, I think the 7x57 has enough of an edge in case capacity to make more than a hypothetical difference. Plus, most 7x57's I have owned have had long, long throats, which further increases their case capacity over the 7-08.
As far as there being any real world advantage, except in match shooting, in owning a short action, well... if you think there is I have lots of ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you for a good price.
So, let's see, which would I choose? Hmmmm.
On the one hand we have the 7x57, a cartridge that was so effective it allowed ill-trained and ill-equipped Boers to hold off the mightiest army in the world, the British, for four years.
It also allowed 700 Spanish soldiers to repel 7000 American troops for quite awhile in Cuba.
It is a cartridge that has been used effectively in Africa for over 120 years and is still revered by folks who hunt for a living and have no room for frills in their daily endeavours.
WDM Bell shot over 1000 elephants with the 7x57 and fed his large hunting entourage mostly with the same rifle. And he expended an average of only 1.5 cartridges per elephant. That is a terrific average on a day by day basis.
Jim Corbett preferred his 7x57 over his large caliber double rifle for hunting man eating tigers and leopards in India. He hunted alone most of the time so had to have complete faith in his rifle's ability to stop a possible charge
by the determined man eater.
On the other hand, we have the 7-08, a good cartridge brought to market 35 or so years ago to duplicate the 7x57's ballistics in a short action.
I'm a traditionalist and will always choose the tried and true veteran. Every time I take one of my 7x57's out, I somehow get to share in part of the rich history of that caliber.

Corbetts & Bells 7mm Mauser launched 175gn at 2300mv,

...7mm08 will do that no problem and not even at high pressures.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Corbetts & Bells 7mm Mauser launched 175gn at 2300mv,

...7mm08 will do that no problem and not even at high pressures.

The 7X57 wins in the velocity department. Regardless of what Bell was getting for velocity. End of story.

End of story?

The long story of the 7x57 was not established by its higher max V (vs) the 7mm/08.

Thats only a new chapter in more recent yrs...

and The 7mm/08 will safely duplicate the famous Rigby .275 bore HV load of 140/2800mv.
thats nothing to complain about.
The pressures??... are no greater than what one would get in a typical .270win
so theres not much of a worthwhile argument against the 7mm08 there either.

Brittany Boddington very effectively killed her Bull Eland with 7mm/08 at 200yd.(150gn /2700mv)
I don't know how a 7x57 would have killed it any more dead.

I also doubt there be many on ARwho would attempt to shoot a lumping big Bull Eland at 200yd
even with their 'faster' 7x57.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I never understand why the basic facts that the larger the case the more powerful the cartridge.

In factory persuasion, the 7-08 is loaded to higher pressure and that is because there are a lot of old 7x57 Mausers that have soft receivers. Same for the 8x57, but in a modern rifle the 7x57 handloaded will shoot circles around the 7-08 all things considered.

My 7x57s have a 30-06 length magazine, and a throat to match so all bullets can be seated out and I get as much as 8% increase in powder, therefore I can get better than 280 Rem factory ballistics very easy. My chronograph shows I can get better than 7 mag. 140 gr. factory ammo ballistics, keep in mind that some factory ammo is underloaded all to hell and the 7 mag is one of them. Of course it can be handloader to beat my the 7x57 loads I use.

I have been using only H414 for some 30 years in my long throated 7x57s. I am considerably over book max in grains for a std. 7x57 book max and at proper pressures.

My chronograph shows a 160 Nosler at 2913 FPS in my guns and that is a load that I have used for years..The 7 mag ammo I tested was 2852 FPS. for 5 shots. My 130 gr. Speer load is 3211, a favorite deer load. The 175 gr. Nosler is 2622 FPS and its mild but a great load for elk in the timber..

I don't think anyone doubts the facts in your first sentence Ray but your second sentence says it all in terms of those that do not reload and rely on factory ammunition. In almost all cases 7mm08 factory ammo, and there is a better selection of it compared to 7x57, produces higher performance because it is loaded to higher pressure. Just as the 7x57 if handloaded will beat the 7mm08 factory or handloads, so does any of the 7mm Magnums beat out all other smaller cased 7mms when handloaded so it is pointless comparing ballistics between factory and handloads.

Funny how the 7mm Magnums are written off as a waste of time by many who in the same breath promote their 7x57 over the 7mm-08 and their 7x64, 7mm-06, 284Win, 280Rem over the 7x57 or 7mm08.

Apples to apples - factory to factory or oranges to oranges - handloads to handloads, can't mix and match to suit an argument.

BTW my father and I used most of the 7mms over many years of hunting and and will always say that the 7x61 S&H (7mm Magnum) with factory 160gr chrono'd close to the 3100fps advertised velocity and 160gr handloads chrono'd at 3000fps beat any other handloaded 7mm other than the other larger cased magnums. More powder, more noise and more recoil but it beats them and sure reaches out and hits hard on big animals.

It seem as though it boils dow to,
Do you hand load.?
The 7mm08 will do a little better with standard factory loads, while the 7x57 gets a little more boost when hand loaded .
I don't shoot any 175, in either round cause i have bigger rounds if i need them.
Either of the smaller 7mms are top notch deer rounds.
And both will kill bigger stuff too.
...tj3006

Good summary. Thanks to others for all the earlier replies as well.

My "hands on" comparison of the two did not show any magic to the 7x57 over the 7-08. Long throat or not. I did not shoot any 175gr bullets through either. I don't shoot 175gr bullets through any of my 7mm's. However I did shoot 160's through both of them. Once again, there wasn't any real world difference.
When I was comparing the two, I never tried to red line either one. I don't really load for velocity; I load for accuracy and the -08, acrost the board, was the more accurate of the two. In fact, I haven't owned a single 7-08, and I have owned a bunch, that wouldn't shoot like a house afire. But, for hunting purposes, they both were more than capable.

If memory serves (and it may not!) John Barsness thought that there was a wider variety of 7-08 factory loads than 7x57's. Then he checked and wrote, in a Handloader article of a few years ago, the 7x57 had 175 grain FL's and the 7-08 didn't. And Barsness failed to mention the excellent Norma 150 grain load available at @2600 fps (down from 2756 fps in the '70's and '80's).
I'm not trying to dis the 7-08 but I believe the 7x57 has a wider range of FL's. And how many 139-140 grain loads does one need?

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I haven't owned a single 7-08, and I have owned a bunch, that wouldn't shoot like a house afire.

roger

If it gets down to store bought vs reloaded ,let me point out the name of the forum; Accurate Reloading.
If you are going to use an 1893 or 1895 use store bought or sensibly reloaded ammo.

Should you buy a contemporary 7 x 57 commercial or a custom made rifle
,handicapping yourself with 100 year old technology, using factory ammo, would be rather silly if you are looking for near maximum performance.Most of these modern rifles are more accurate than the guys using them in either the 7-08 or 7 x 57. logically this means that the 7 x 57 is superior by having greater powder capacity. Ergo Ray is right . roger

Man You gotta love AR:

You take a so and so with a looong throat, and even loooonger barrel you stoke it up and you can beat a this and that ! No matter that the this and that has a full 30 gr of case capacity more than the the so and so !

Now you have to add it is old age and wisdom that allows you to do that

That was always the mantra of the 7x64 crowd..... you could hot rod a 7x64 and you can get to 7mm Remmie velocity....... but then the 7 Remmie boys were not to be outdone they were chasing the STW boys...... who of course were having a run at the RUM guys......

All of course with a healthy dose of old age and huge amount of wisdom !

Well, I for one and really enjoying this thread. I am learning.
I shoot the 7x57 but only for the last two years.

I am a huge fan of the 7x57 so much so that they beget children as time goes by ! Many many children But I can say this without reserve the 7x57 is not a 7x64, nor is it a 7mm Rem mag or any other bigger cased 7mm.

Hell it may be the ballistic equivalent of the 7-08 it aint a 7mm 08 either simply because the 08 is American and the 57 is European.
That in itself says a lot !

For one the Euro 7mm is not a .284, its a 287, now that may sound like not much but when shooting modern grooved or ribbed bullets it does make a difference.


Further that It's very much a matter of philosophy. The one operates from a position of low and slow whilst the other is all about velocity !

Fundamentally the leed design and whole setup in the 08 is geared to milk as much velocity from a 7mm in a 08 case whilst the 57 was primarily designed to shoot 173 gr bullets.

The same principle is at play when it comes to the classic Euro 6.5s compared to a say a 260.
The Leed and twist of the old 6.5's were set up for long ( 158gr) 160 gr bullets whist the American 6.5s are designed with 140 gr bullets in mind

The exception of course is the 6.5 x 68. This is a obligatory light bullet shooter designed for small deer and shooting blistering fast 93 gr bullets with the 127 gr bullet as max. The slow rate of twist does not allow for anything heavier.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:


For one the Euro 7mm is not a .284, its a 287, now that may sound like not much but when shooting modern grooved or ribbed bullets it does make a difference.

.287?

I thought CIP spec. for the 7x57 was .285"

.287" being for the belted .275H&H

The reason in my opinion why the 7=08 has it over the 7x57 in america is the nice cool little guns that its made in. the model 7 rem. not sure but probably the most popurler chamber. Browning BLR, ruger compact lots of savages, kimbers, and others for people that carry their rifles alot these guns really shine in 708

quote:

Originally posted by bbruce:
... Browning BLR, ruger compact lots of savages, kimbers, and others for people that carry their rifles alot these guns really shine in 708

Although Bell helped make the 7x57 famous by his elephant killing exploits with it,
his favourite rig for dumping ele bulls, was actually his shorter & lighter Mannlicher carbine(20"brl 6-1/4 lb)
HE expressed his delight in the Mannlichers lightweight and handiness.( what let him down was the poor quality of 6.5mm ammunition)

Based on the handling qualities of the Mannlicher rifle he valued, I reasonable assume he would have also delighted over a similarly
trim & lightweight smllring- Kurz 7mm08 with 22" brl running solids ..had such been available. >>
as opposed to the LRM98 7x57 25" barrel gun he used.( 7-1/4 lb)

I like lever guns too.
I have two in .308. I like model 7s also. But there are some equally cool 7x57s.
I have a Ruger #1A that is excellent.
It has been neglected buy US makers , but in something like a mauser 98 custom , or a CZ brno FN sporter. The 7x57 is real cool !...tj3006

Something that is worrisome about the 7x57.
Very few manufacturers are making rifles commercially in this caliber !

The big euro names no longer offer the 7x57, it has been replaced by the 7x64.

This is a concern because as time goes on fewer and fewer manufacturers offer brass and ammo.

Alf, I assume you live in Europe where the ammo situation may be as you said.
In the US, even though conventional wisdom says the 7-08 has more factory loadings, such is not the case.
7x57 loadings:
139-140 grain-Federal, Remington, Hornady and maybe others
145 grain-Winchester
150 grain-Norma
158 grain-Prvi "Thunder"
173-175 grain-Federal, PMC, PRVI, S&B
7-08 loadings: (and I may miss one or two)
120 grain?
140 grain-Remington, Federal, Winchester
150 grain-Remington
Please feel free to fill in any 7-08 loads I may have missed.