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You are sitting 300 yds from a nice sized southern whitetail doe. You have a scoped Marlin XLR 30-30 loaded with leverevolution ammo in your hands. You have a solid rest. Do you take the shot? If so what is your point of aim? I didn't shoot. Just curious. | ||
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Only extensive range time before the hunt could tell you if the rifle was capable of even hitting the deer at that range. Then you need to know what point of aim to use depending on how high the rifle was sighted in at 100 and where it hit at 200, etc. But the 30-30 is not a 300 yard rifle so no I would not take the shot. In over 40 years of hunting never had to take a shot at 300 yards or more. Couple were close but think 287 yards was my longest. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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I used to shoot my 336 at deer that far away in west Texas when I was a kid. It was the only rifle I had so I knew exactly what the holdover was every 25 yds out to 300 yds. this was well before any of that fancy pointy ammo. It helps to be able to accurately judge distances too. I spent a ton of time out in the field in those days and always took the time to accurately range several landmarks so I would know the distances. The question is not whether the .30-30 will kill teh deer but whther the shooter can hit it. If you are not practiced and certain of your ability then passing is the right call.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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if your gun is sighted in at 100yds, that bullet is going to drop about 25in at 300. Not to mention that it will retain less than half of its original energy. So....no I would not take that shot, you showed good restraint! "though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression." ---Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Agree with the above, but the real question is: Do you know what range your rifle is sighted in for? What kind of groups does your rifle shoot at that range? Do you KNOW the drop at 300 from the sight in distance? have you ever shot at that range before? Know the groups that the rifle shoots at that range? Anecdotally, I do not believe that the rifle mentioned is capable of, say, a 5 inch group at that range, so even with a good power scope enabling a precise aiming point, I would not thake the shot. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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No I would not. Did you think about trying to get closer? Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Depends on your rifle, your sights, your skill, etc, and especially what distance you have it sighted in at. Ballistically, ,the 30-30 is up to the shot, but it may not be accuracy-wise and many hunter's aren't either. Here is a little Maximum Point-Blank Range info... "From the Oehler Ballistic Explorer and its ammo library, the typical .30-30 170gr has a B.C. of 0.255 and muzzle velocity of 2200fps. For a 6" vital zone/paper plate and sight height of 1.5"(typical scope), it is dead on at 19.3 yards and between 175 and 180 yards (3" high at 100 yards) and 3 inches low at 206.4 yards. The LeveRevolution yields a B.C. of 0.330, M.V. of 2400fps, dead on at 27.1 and between 245 and 250 yards, 3" low at 287.9 yards, and 2.58" high at 100 yards." So, if a person held on the deer's backbone with the rifle sighted in dead on at 27 yards, the LeveRevolution bullets should strike about mid-deer elevation wise at 300 yards. OF COURSE, a person would have to verify that the LeveRevolution ammo actually performed that way from his own gun (and was sufficiently accurate with him shooting it) if he wanted to be ready to try such a shot. Me, I always prefer to carry more gun than I think I will ever require for what and where I am hunting...so I'd almost always pass if I was toting a 30-30....but I'd likely be carrying something with more vigor anyway. But if TSHTF and I really needed that meat for my family and I, I'd sight my scoped 30-30 for maximum point blank range before I began hunting, and then, yes, I'd probably take the shot. | |||
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"Hail Mary full of grace . . . " | |||
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I've seen some 30-30's that shot very well. If the hunter had shot his rifle on paper to 300 yards and knew that himself and the rifle were up to it. Then it would be very feasible. I do quite a bit of shooting at 300 yards and if the rifle would group into 4" at 300 and I knew the exact range, I could make that shot. It would be easier than a 400 yard shot with a 300 mag. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Blah, blah, blah... If a frog had wings... Show me a .30-30 lever gun that will consistently shoot 4" groups at 300 yards... | |||
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No. Nt unless my family were starving opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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doubless: does it have to have a mag tube,or bbl band attatched to it? | |||
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Post like this always remind me of a young fellow I ran acrost up behind my house in WV. He had his thurty-thurty along with an absolute Hubble scope on it IN SEE THRU MOUNTS. When I mentioned that was quite a scope he had there, he gave me a green-toothed grin and said, "yeah, that's to hep me with my long shots." Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Long time ago, viewed a gent in his 80s shoot 3 times at a small group of deer that was about 250 yards away with a 30-30 lever rifle his father had bought in a pawnshop during the depression. If I recall correctly, he told me his father had paid $5 for it. Side of the Butt stock of the rifle had U.S. burned into it, so maybe it was a U.S. calvary rifle at one time. Saw his first shot land about 100 yards short when it kicked up dirt. The deer raised their heads and then continued eating. Second shot landed maybe 30 yards beyond first shot. Third shot fell about 30 yards short of the deer, which by then realized something was amiss and slowly trotted back into the woods. The combination of one very worn out bore and it being a 30-30 caused me to have a good chuckle at what I'd watched that day so long ago. Rifle couldn't lob a bullet that far. | |||
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Lamar: Not at all. Have you looked at .30-30 ballistics? Now; add to that the inherent inaccuracy of a lever gun as compared to bolt guns, and let's talk. It's pretty darned hard to get a lot of off the shelf bolt guns to shoot 1" at 100. NOW do you understand? | |||
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Nope...just another ridiculous stunt shot. If I were a starving depression-era hunter who absolutely needed the meat...then I wouldn't be shooting a scoped stainless levergun with 21st century ammo. If I were a modern-day shooter who had that gun and ammo, AND had tested it at that range to know the trajectory and drop, AND knew that it had the accuracy, AND was familiar with the marginal killing power of the ammo at that range, AND had lasered the range exactly...then I likely wouldn't need the meat that badly. Play around with nonsense shots like that on the range all you want...I personally love shooting my .22lr at 200 yards and more. But don't experiment on living creatures. The antis tell enough fanciful lies about us now in an attempt to demonize us...we don't need to actually be dicks in real life as well. | |||
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It's all about the rifle and your skills with it... I have shot plenty of rifles out at 300+ yards Some were easily capable and others were just not capable of making hits... With the good ones.. I would not have worried about making the shot... With the ones that couldn't do it - no way. Thanks | |||
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If I was confident in the grouping of the rifle. If I thought I could nail a paper plate at that range then sure. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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Doubless, I had a 30-30 Marlin that would shoot 2" at 200 yards and I've seen several more that would also. Most of the Marlins shoot pretty good, The new Hornady bullets and new powders designed specifically for the 30-30 improve the ballistics by quite a bit. They're getting close to 2400fps with the 165 Hornady lever bullet. Even a 6" group at 300 yards is plenty good enough for deer. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I've shot cast bullet silhouette with mine many times. It will shoot between 1 to 1.5 MOA depending on the loads. Hell, even 2 MOA is plenty good enough out to 300 yds. Of course those that shoot from the armchair seldom know this. Is that kind of shot for everyone? No. But if you know what you can do and what your gun can do and both of you are up to the task, then it ain't rocket science. Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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Only if I had shot paper at 300 yards, so I knew where/how the rifle/load shot at that distance. Taking a WAG usually results in a wounded animal and considering that usually a person shoots a doe for meat, I only want one shot/one kill. | |||
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I've seen it happen in MO. But you left out details. Is the rifle sighted in for 300? Has the shooter practiced at 300? How does the rifle perform at 300? To answer the question, I'd have to say no simply because I don't own or want to own a 30-30. Not my style. Put me in the hunter's place with any of my bolt actions and the answer is absolutely w/o hesitation. It's not that the 30-30 can't do it. It can. I've seen it. But just bc it can doesn't mean you should. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Just to flesh the question out; Upon arriving at camp the prior afternoon I checked the zero of my rifles. The 30-30 was dead on at 100. The 30-06 had, for the first time is almost 15 years, gone off. Due to others hunting nearby I was not able to sight the 30-06 in until after our morning hunt so I took the 30-30. Most of my shots there have been 100 yds or less but this time Mr Murphy intervened. Had I had the 30-06 I would have taken the shot as I had previously done on plainsgame in Africa. As it was, I never considered taking the shot with the 30-30. Needless to say that was the only shootable deer that I saw. | |||
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I applaud your restraint.  An unwounded deer may or may not come back. A wounded deer in all likelihood will die a slow lingering death and WON"T come back. Good luck the rest of the season. And I mean that. | |||
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Me, not a chance would I take that shot. Couple of reasons - - I rarely practice at that range let alone with a 30-30. - Even though it may be possible, and the tables show bullet drop, retained energy, to me it's not an ethical shot. Better calibers for the shot. I often carry an 1895 45-70 in the woods, but know that when I get to the open area the self imposed limit is 150 yards for a perfect shot (broadside, unaware, not much wind). I know my personal limits, maybe the gun can do more but not willing to risk it. As others have said, you showed great restraint. ______________________ Ken A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in. --- Greek Proverb | |||
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Heck yes I would. That's not a lot of drop, and if the wind isn't blowing you should be able to wreck the vitals quite easily. A deer at 300 yards is a big target. Love shooting precision and long range. Big bores too! Recent college grad, started a company called MK Machining where I'm developing a bullpup rifle chassis system.  | |||
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300 Yards / 270 Meters? With a 30-30? NAAAHHH. Gimme a 6.5*55 well loaded and I can confidently shoot it. bye Stefano Waidmannsheil | |||
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What Jeffe said... Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Like they said. You made a wise choice. Congratulations. | |||
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No and yes. No because if you need to ask the "what's the point of aim?"...you likely have never shot the rifle at that distance and don't know what the drop is and how the rifle groups. Yes, because sighted 3 inches high at 100 with a scope 1.5 above the bore line the trajectory is only 12 inches low with 1700 fps of impact velocity with just over 1000 lbs of energy which is roughly equivalent to a 308 win 165 @ 2700 fps @ 600 yards So assuming you know the trajectory and the rifles accuracy and you are a competent rifleman the shot is very makeable. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Terry,,Let your conscience be your guide! When guideing hunters and being compelled to shoot at times we take whatever shot is offered,good or bad and hope our stopping rigs do so. Hunting for myself I don't even consider shooting unless it's an absolute bang-flop. Witnessing too many sloppy shooting episodes will do that to a person! I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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No....Wrong tool in your hands. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Like many have said in your situation NO I would not have shot. Now if I owned said 30-30 and had practiced out to 300 yards and knew I could hit where I needed to hit maybe. However I have little experience with the 30-30 past 100 yards or so and will not get into a debate of their capability's beyond that distance. As for the shot being 300 yards, I shoot that distance quite often at our range and hunting. With the proper rifle and a good rest I would rather make that shot than a quick shot off hand at closer ranges like many woods hunters do. My advice is pick your hunting rig to your hunting style and prepare for anything. Molon Labe New account for Jacobite | |||
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As a rule if you question yourself about whether it's right or wrong , it's usually wrong ! Pat youself on the back and buy yourself a beer , you made the right decision ! Don't forget to have your Liberals spayed or neutered ! | |||
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