Ask the deer which is better

as a 270 user for past 7 years on a lot of deer, and having used a 308 for the past 2 years decking quite a few.
I use 130gr corelokts at a slower speed due to using varget, I penetrated Sambar deer at 350 meters with this combo on several times, I then got handed some vortx ammo and it flattened my trajectory and improved my penetration out further and I was edging to 400m confidently with a mono metal where I would of been iffy with the cup an core due to my 2850*fps muzzle velocity.

the 270 Winchester is a big game rifle originally made for flat fast and effective... right? for when the hunter knows what he is doing and doesn't need firepower to replace shot placement.
todays bullets are top notch and 130gr is where you want to be with your .270 up around that 3000 fps .

the 308 on the other hand I used with 150gr corelokts successfully out to 200m and then loaded 150gr Accubonds for an all round bullet and as in the past have 100% confidence with that Projectile for the Deer I hunt.

You would have a hard time noticing muc difference in the 150gr 277 or 308 bullet at similar speeds, some say big holes bleed better, which is true to a degree but a hole in the heart stops everything.

WL

PS- I just bought a 7mm 08...... if a commercial 270-08 was made it would of been my #1 choice 7mm will have to doo

I agree with p dog; all the talk about drop is ho hum. If you have a rangefinder, you adjust for drop. If you don't have a rangefinder, get one.

The .308 being okay to 300 yards? Hell, it works great at 500 yards. I can normally hit a clay pigeon with mine shooting sitting with a bipod at 500 yards. Accuracy will ALWAYS trump velocity at long range, and BC trumps velocity as well (in other words, use heavy for caliber bullets for the least amount of wind drift).

If both guns are equally accurate and have enough energy, pick the one least affected by wind.

There are trade-offs with everything but the best is high velocity AND a high ballistic coefficient. It's BC AND velocity that gives the bullet a flatter trajectory and less wind drift.

The reason wind drift is negligible between so many loads in the same cartridge is because usually with higher BC the velocity is lower and with a lower BC the velocity it generally higher (because of bullet weight affecting velocity).

There's a balancing act to find what is just right for each shooter and there are damn few hard and fast rules.

Yep, there are trade-offs with everything.

Zeke

I was just figuring out the vel I should load a 100gr spire pt to in my 257 rob.

To match the LR reticle of my leupold I brought for it. Any where around 3150 works out great. plus or mins 50fps well get me with in a couple of inches out to 500

It really doesn't matter. Both will shoot practically the same to 350 yards. After that you are going to have to put the time in to become familiar with your gun/load for either. Distance for distance the 130gr 270 will match performance of the 150gr 308 and the 150gr in 270 will match the 165gr in 308. pick the rifle you like long action vs. short and enjoy. Better yet...get both and give the one you like least to the wife. I wonder if my wife will ever shoot any of her guns?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I was just figuring out the vel I should load a 100gr spire pt to in my 257 rob.

To match the LR reticle of my leupold I brought for it. Any where around 3150 works out great. plus or mins 50fps well get me with in a couple of inches out to 500

PD:

If you have the Boone and Crockett or similar reticle, zero at the farthest range you have (say 500 yards using the 500 yard hold off). Errors at closer ranges will be pretty negligible.

FWIW, Leupold Vari-X IIIs in the middle ranges (the ones that estimate range on the power ring) subtend 7.5 inches at 300 yards. If you zero at 200, the post is normally a good 300 yard zero. Shot tons of game using that hold.

As far as velocity vs BC, I agree with you, ZekeShikar to a point, but at the end of the day, the best long range bullets are always the heaviest for caliber or nearly so - not the ones that give the highest MV.

Another reason to favor high BC over velocity for loads of equal wind drift: the higher the BC, the less impacted it is from environmental changes such as temperature and pressure. Learned that about 20 years shooting in the winter in MN - my super flat .220 Swift dropped (relative to summer trajectories) significantly more at 700 yards in -25 F temps than my 7mm and 30 caliber loads (oh, to have been as young as Tyler Kemp when I discovered big .338s rule). Once I rebarreled to a fast twist shooting 75 grain and heavier bullets, there was a HUGE improvement in winter to summer conditions. And no, I wasn't using ball powder shooting lighter bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
Better yet...get both and give the one you like least to the wife. I wonder if my wife will ever shoot any of her guns?

I tried that years ago and ended up on a deer hunt with my wife when she had her gun and I had one of "her" guns. She wanted to know what the hell I was doing with "her" rifle!!!!! LOL

Now I just tell her they're all hers and that I'll borrow them whenever I want.

Seems to work.

Zeke

AZ
shot the 257 r today

My long range is snowed in for the winter.

First results look promising had a bunch of different ammo laying around used it for getting scope close.

Had 5 rounds loaded with bal c 2 they went into .5 at 50.

Loaded 5 with 100gr serria with WC852 max load for 3200 fps they went into .4 at 50.

When the snow leaves this spring I'll get her out to 5 and 600

Doing the math the reticle should be with in a couple of inches or closer all the way out to 5

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
Better yet...get both and give the one you like least to the wife. I wonder if my wife will ever shoot any of her guns?

I tried that years ago and ended up on a deer hunt with my wife when she had her gun and I had one of "her" guns. She wanted to know what the hell I was doing with "her" rifle!!!!! LOL

Now I just tell her they're all hers and that I'll borrow them whenever I want.

Seems to work.

Zeke

Unfortunately, this trick does not work for me since I shoot left handed and my wife shoots right handed. If my wife shot left handed, she would probably have a few guns of her own!

A properly made 308 will take advantage of its short case length to make a smaller, lighter 'handier'/rifle. I hunt with a browning X bolt in 308 and my brother uses a great Rem 700 bdl bought when the BDL was a BDL in 270 and is the only high power rifle he has fired on durn near 40 hears. They are different rifles, so its not apples to apples, but I would take my light and generally compact XBolt any day for the deer hunting we do and have done. It's situational and really rather academic. If you think you will be taking all your shots at over 200 meters, then go for the 270. If you are carrying the rifle and take your shots UNDER 200m, then take the 308. The flat shooting of the 270 is utterly irrelevant until out past this distance. But you carry heavier and longer ammo, action and , therefore, rifle all the time .

quote:

Originally posted by Sylvaneous:
A properly made 308 will take advantage of its short case length to make a smaller, lighter 'handier'/rifle. I hunt with a browning X bolt in 308 and my brother uses a great Rem 700 bdl bought when the BDL was a BDL in 270 and is the only high power rifle he has fired on durn near 40 hears. They are different rifles, so its not apples to apples, but I would take my light and generally compact XBolt any day for the deer hunting we do and have done. It's situational and really rather academic. If you think you will be taking all your shots at over 200 meters, then go for the 270. If you are carrying the rifle and take your shots UNDER 200m, then take the 308. The flat shooting of the 270 is utterly irrelevant until out past this distance. But you carry heavier and longer ammo, action and , therefore, rifle all the time .

I have an X Bolt .308; it is the most accurate out of the box factory rifle I have ever bought with the exception of my Savage Lapua. I shot it Saturday at 710 and 800 yards; all of my shots would have hit a paper plate. Granted, wind was fairly calm, but I still had to hold almost 2 MOA at times, some a left hold and some a right hold.

I also shot my custom barreled.220 Swift with 75 Hornady AMAX bullets and the .308 kept with that rifle.

Hey, what happened here, we just replaced the 30-06 vs. the 270, with the .308 vs. the .270 the age old camp fire worthless but fun conversation. But guess what nothing changed as the .308 is for all practical thinkin gentlemen the same round as the 30-06..

If you don't believe that look how many icons fit the subject and I didn't even include all of them!

Yes, it is a very similar campfire discussion. There is one slight difference.

The 30-06 can get 100 fps advantage on the 308, 'all things equal', because of larger capacity. That means that the 270 and 308 end up much closer in muzzle energies and the muzzle energy advantage of the 30-06 over the 270 disappears when the 270 is compared to the 308.

Since you just wrote on another thread that the 30-06 is the most flexible and widely applicable cartridge available today, would you say the same about the 308? If not, why not? And so the discussion revolves.

And for a short action rifle, is the 308 the best of the best, or should it be amplified by the 300RCM (capacity equivalent to the 30-06), or augmented to the 300 WSM?

Pass me a cold Tusker.
Those steaks on the fire are about ready.

quote:

Originally posted by Sylvaneous:
If you think you will be taking all your shots at over 200 meters, then go for the 270. If you are carrying the rifle and take your shots UNDER 200m, then take the 308. The flat shooting of the 270 is utterly irrelevant until out past this distance. But you carry heavier and longer ammo, action and , therefore, rifle all the time .

The flat shooting ability is also irrelevant if you know the distance and trajectory.

Well I took Tanzan head on, did my best to lead him down the yellow brick road, but failed miserably as he stayed fast to the 270 WCF, and the bottom line is HE IS CORRECT ANY WAY YOU CUT IT, BUT NOT BY MUCH.

There isn't much practical difference between the two. Just for fun, I had a 270-08 built on a 700 Remington and it is now my favorite deer rifle. It has minimal recoil, it is scary accurate, it has sufficient power, and shoots very flat with 130 bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by duckboat:
There isn't much practical difference between the two. Just for fun, I had a 270-08 built on a 700 Remington and it is now my favorite deer rifle. It has minimal recoil, it is scary accurate, it has sufficient power, and shoots very flat with 130 bullets.

Splits the very small difference between the 7-08 and the 260 Rem!

I shoot both.

I always seemed to get faster killing from a 165gr 308 than a 150gr 270.I do think that the variation is probably wider in bullet choice than calibre performance. That said I think the ability to shoot heavier bullets and the slightly larger bore diameter does count for something. I've hunted quite extensively with the .308. My favourite bullet is the 165gr North Fork, but I've used other bullets with success.

The .308 Win is a very underrated calibre in my opinion and I've used it effectively to about 300m on African game. That said I like to think of it as a 200-250m rifle if choosing a rifle ahead of a hunt. That said beyond that distance I like other calibres more than the 270 as well... unless the game is smaller. I like the 270 up to the size of Red Hartebeest / Black Wildebeest / Nyala bulls and I guess Lechwe for example.

On longer shots a rangefinder beats a flat shooter and at longer range you usually have time... THat said beyond 300m thee are better choices than a 308 or a 270.

My 308 compares equally on paper and in the game fields with the .270..All I do is put more powder im my 308..48.5 grs. of Varget under a 150 gr. Nosler partition or whatever gives me 2982 FPS in my 22 inch barreled Kimber 84, and that is book max in some reloading books, and its fine in the Kimber bolt action.

The cases stick or come apart with that load in my Savage 99F! so it must be max! I keep the .308s in opposite corners of my reloading room well marked for Kimber only. Its incredibly accurate with that load in the Kimber and it handles brass very well without due loss of cases.

Comparing calibers can be real confusing and in most cases just a conversation among hunters around a campfire and variable amounts of intoxicating beverage.

Split the difference with a 7MM-08 using 140 to 156 grain bullet and an appropriate powder. If you need muzzle velocity for varmints, go with a 120 grain projectile. The 7mm-08 is a versatile caliber IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by tjroberts:
416, and all you guy,s thanks for making this such an informative thread.
A couple of points i would like to make. The foot lbs are not part of the argument to me.
Both rounds have plenty of power to kill even the biggest Mule deer at 300 yards.
After 300 I don't shoot ! I just think at that point the deer wins. If i can't get closer i would probably pass.
I guess for me its pretty sure that the .308 will do just fine.
...tj3006

Practice practice practice with the one you choose and it wont matter which it is,

Kinda like trying to separate fly shit from black pepper.....

quote:

Originally posted by Biggs300:
Split the difference with a 7MM-08 using 140 to 156 grain bullet and an appropriate powder. If you need muzzle velocity for varmints, go with a 120 grain projectile. The 7mm-08 is a versatile caliber IMHO.

You could also split the difference with a 280. And Ray could solve his hot loads coming apart by moving up to the capacity of a 30-06. There are a lot of light rifles (under 7 pounds, both RH and LH) that will handle -06 length.

Pfffft! Another useless argument. Futile arguments and discussions about shit that doesn't really matter and has no real right or wrong answer.

Save your energy for more important issues, like .375 H&H vs. .375 Ruger.

Let me see I own a 270s 308s 30-06s 7mms 300Wm 8mms and others any of the game I have shot with them have all died.

Why do I chose one over another feelings. It what is what I feel like using when I go hunting.

Or maybe it is one is newer than another or is it because it is older.

Well some of you are correct, it is a worthless argument or discussion, depending on what camp your in...but then most discussions or arguments on the internet are! Its only a pastime folks!

I so love reading & doing the mental gymnastics when it comes to cartridge selection. lol

My advice, when in doubt..go with the short fat powder column!

Each cartridge is best suited to an appropriate platform.

I saw something 'silly' while looking at 308's. There was a 26" barrel, long-range 308Win.

That seemed counter productive and made me laugh. Such a rifle should have a long-range cartridge. A 308Win belongs in a compact, little rifle, 22" max, 20" is good, too.

A 270 and larger-capacity 30 calibre rounds can profitably 22, 24" and 26" rifles. Such lengths are appropriate for 270, 30-06 and 300 magnum cartridges.

Up here in Canada, we have bigger deer and moose! And some of the boys are loading their .308's with RL-17 to 2800 fps from 180 Noslers. Do that with a 180 AccuBond and you have OVER 2100 ft-lbs at 300.

I've never owned a .308 Win and only one .270, but today, where I hunt and what I hunt, it would be the .308 over the .270 because of the heavier and wider bullets that have excellent BC's and SD's. They are pushing the 200's to 2650. All that is into "hot" loads for the .30-06, and encroaching into original .300 H&H ballistics.

I'd choose the .308 because of new powders and bullets, and because it's more efficient in a handier package.

But in truth, I like mediums and Big Bores for most things. And in a .30-cal it's a .300 Win Mag, always.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca