The CANADIAN 300 RULE

"300# deer at 300yds = 300 Magnum.

woods

Hmmm, seafire- not quite sure what you mean about the need for shooting @ 900yds... care to elaborate?

marc

Seafire,
I have shot a couple of deer at extended ranges and I'm glad I had a 300...I have seen folks try to stretch their 257's, 308's etc. and end up with a long chase with a good hit!!

Most of the light caliber crowd are content until they wound something, they they change to a bigger gun, and I say most...

I have and can kill deer with a 22L.R. and effectively but I have to modify my hunting style, I don't have to do that with a 300..

Most of my deer hunting these days is done behind my house with a Win. M-94 25-35 Win. but I'm willing to pass up long shots and its cost me some real big bucks, but I've shot my share of big bucks, and don't mind leaving them for the new hunters out there...

But If I am seriously after a B&C trophy deer, I will have the 300 H&H every time...

I hope that answers you question as to why one might need a larger gun and I think you should remember that the 300 is a 30-30 or even a 30 carbine at some point in its range and your smaller gun is a whole lot less as the range increases. I have seen a number of animals wounded because of folks limiting themselves with a small caliber and then trying to make it do the work of a magnum....There is a place in all hunting for both magnum and non magnum.

Interesting thread...

Here in Montana season's run together. You can be on a deer hunt and end up on an elk hunt or vice-versa. That's the beauty of the 300's... plenty of reach and punch for anything that comes one's way. I've never used the 300 Win but have spent some time with the 300 WSM and have taken elk and mule deer with it. They died. Like Allen, I see no need for bullets lighter than 180 grains in the 300's. I like simplicity and just load a 180 for everything. In the WSM the 180's go 2,950 fps with outstanding acuracy... plenty flat and hard hiting. If I were tracking whitetail's in the Maine woods I'd rather use a 308 carbine... that's a specalized situation where long shots are 100 to 200 yards. Here in the West shots beyond 300 yards on BIG game often present themselves so there's no point in limiting yourself. A 300 Mag stoked with a good 180 is possibly the best "one-rifle-rifle" for everything out here. I've said it before... the 300's combine, in a compromise, the flat shooting characteristic's of the 270 and the hard-hitting attributes of the 33's... that's a compromise worth making!

BA

I like the 200 grain Nosler Partitions in my 300 W.M. They shoot flatter than a 150 grain in a 30/06 and don't drift off target as much in a cross wind, not to mention they deliver a much harder hit. It does the job on a larger variety of game and at longer ranges than the 30/06. The recoil is greater but thats the price you pay for the expanded capability.

Orion old buddy:

It was not conveying my needs, I just think a good rifleman does not need a 300 mag.

However I never knock any man who knows how to use what he is carrying, because the name of the game is bullet placement.

Maybe not those in here, but I see normally the bigger the caliber the less the guy knows how to use it. Some magazine convinced him he would be a better hunter.

As I saw a quote in a magazine ( for once that I agreed with) if you have a 300 yd gun are you a 300 yd shooter? Normally the second half of that equation is not the fact! When it is, then I back the guy 1000% of whatever he carries.

Big Country:

I am definitely not an Anti. And if people have a range to shoot at 900 yds, or a mountain as a back drop great.

I have just seen too many times where the bullets keep on flying. We have a range to 800 yds here, and I shoot at the max all the time.

However guys who shoot some of the real big calibers at the Sillouette that use to be at 850yds, had their bullets riccocheting up and over the hillside and a farmers barn two miles away started getting riddled with bullet holes.

This is in Oregon where we have a lot more open land than anywhere in Maryland or Virginia.

I graduated High School in 1970 in No Va. Left to go to college and have never moved back even tho most of my relatives all still live there.
I agree with you, Virginia is not the state I grew up in that is for dam sure. People in Arlington use to speak English and had a drawl doing so. Fairfax and Loudon County use to be mainly farms. I lived in Manassas during the centennial in 1961 and 1962. It had the same population then as it did in the Civil War, 2500 people. By 1980 there was close to half a million, which is amazing considering how much land is battlefield park that they never will sell.

And guys with jacked up pickups with Monster mudders, we have them here in Oregon. Here there are tons of places for them to actually use them and take advantage of the lift kit and tires. I still think they look like a bunch of idiots putting it all on a street driven vehicle.

3 miles to the gallon when gas is $1.60 a gallon, in a town where the average family of 4 makes about $20,000 a year. yeah they drive macho trucks, while their kids don't have enough money for school lunch, and live in a 25 yr old house trailer.

It is okay for a kid who maybe has no financial responsibilities, and has enough money to feed it. I did not need a muscle car in High School, but I sure wanted one. But when I was in my late 20s and married and the guy next door who had 6 kids, bought a 280Z and that was his only car, I thought the guy was a self centered asshole.

I love my "toys" but not at the expense of my families and childrens needs first.

If that makes me an Anti, then I am an "anti".

Well, Seafire-

Still aren't sure why the hell you were ragging on me- and you choose not to address it- that's fine- Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics, anyhow- even if you win- you're still retarded

Marc:

Aren't ragging on you! I just get sick of seeing idiots wherever I hunt who use magnums on deer who really can't shoot a 22 for shit.

However if you are a man who can shoot a 300, then I support you a 100%. Most who haul it can't. It is more gun that I need, even tho I own one, and two 338s.

It is not the gun I rap on, it is the idiots that carry it.(most of the time). We hunters have to keep our shit wrapped tight ( as they said in the Army), to keep the antis from Yelling "See>>>>>".

I gather you are a man that knows how to use your 300 and that being the case please accept my humble apology.! I stand pleasantly corrected in your case and all who carry a 300 or bigger and can shoot it!! the bullet in the boiler is what it is all about.

Hi@All

First of all: i love the 300WinMag, i got a Browning A-Bolt European, i got mainly for wild boars, it makes nice holes, and does not stick like a 30.06, even on 50 yards or shorter. Sometimes its better to have a little more power than less. I use 180grains Sierra GameKing with 70grs. Hogdon 4831. Works great. Even on deer under 30pounds - just aim a little back. And with an illuminated Leupold Vari X III 4,5-14x50 German 4 you can shoot at night and hit far.
Waidmannsheil,
Marcel

Apology accepted, sir:
And I can fully relate to what you said about idiots; we have our fair share here. Heck, nearly all of MD is restricted to shotguns only, for deer hunting. Only Western Md, which is mountainous and much less densly populated, allows rifles on deer.

And true, most of the time, you don't NEED a .300WhateverMag to drop a skinny ol' whitetail- and I would not think of lobbing bullets at deer waay out there, but lobbing them at gophers and such as far as possible is pretty darn fun provided you are very careful about your backstop and all.

Good comment about keeping our shit wrapped tight: we must account for every bullet sent downrange, and not be skipping bullets across the countryside with no regard for where they end up. Anytime I am not 100% comfortable with those considerations, I won't shoot. I sure don't want to be the guy all over the news who lets a bullet get away and goes through someone's house (or worse)... many a time I have let gophers and such go.... just dry-fired on his ass and said, "I'll get you next time"

But I must admit, from a pure fun standpoint, the more gunpowder it burns, and the louder it goes BANG, the more fun it is to shoot (for me anyway) No one who has shot my .300 or my .454Casull has ever turned back to me with anything other that a huge grin

I know it doesn't make sense to blow a $1.00 on a gopher, but it sure is fun!
marc

Probably out of line, there Seafire. So if I was sorry, but I just hate to see people say no need for this or that in our shooting community. I don't shoot a AR-15, and really don't want one. I mean I would have one, but not my cup of tea. And some of the jokers I work with say, "I am ok with you guys that hunt, with bolts, but why the need for a AR". You know why, because those guys at the range that shoot them are our brethen. Alot of them I see don't hunt, but I take up for them. We all need to stick together. I don't use a 300mag for deer. But will take up the use of them. Now they recently let crossbows legal in MD. I have been openly opposed that however. Why, lets be honest. Cause I bowhunt 90% of the time, and now this year, every guy will start bowhunting then on opening day, my secret spot will be in use before I get there. I will be hunting on a monster farm in Dorchester county. 3000 acres and the shots are far. So I will consider taking out my 300mag for that.

I'm curious as to how you can tell if someone carrying a 300 can or can't shoot it, some kind of telepathy or what...Most of the folks I know and book that shoot the 300's and bigger calibers shoot pretty darn well...

When I hear about all these nuts out there hunting, it makes me wonder why I don't see them as much as some do.. and I'm in the hunting business, I think that is a gunwriters paragraph that has been used up by some to show great knowledge...

I will say that 95% of all the hunters out there are pretty darn good shots, we seldom get a bad shot in one of our camps these days, and most gun nuts and paying hunters can sure out shoot the locals simply because they are into balistics, shooting and love to hunt, its the weekend locals that are a pain with all there knowledge and bragadocious bull crap..Trust me on this one, I have observed it for some 55 years or so...finally said it, now I'm glad I did...

RAY, you have answered your own question. 95% of hunters who pay good money and have a passion to hunt may be good shots I will give you that BUT 95% of all hunters are "weekend locals" in someones area.

Ray,

I know of you as a man with experience, and I trust your judgement. maybe things are different over in Idaho.

However I base my opinion not on what I see in the field, but what I see at the range when so many of these guys come out to zero their scopes.

When I see some guy show up, with 5 or 6 boxes of ammo and they set up a target at 300 yds to start zeroing their new magnum. Most of the time it is equiped with some high powered scope with a 50mm objective. You casually start up a conversation with them by complimenting their new gun.

I don't criticize the guy at the time, because I know they just shelled out a lot of cash for this rig, and don't want to burst their bubble.

After a couple of boxes of ammo, they have hit nothing, but they have seen me shooting and sheepishly come over and ask to pay me to zero their guns. I always do it for free, and most of the time the scope was at least bore sighted.

To these guys, it usually meant to them that it was already to go. They crap their pants when I get it right on at 100 yds in 3 to 6 shots.

Then they shoot at 100 yds if they have any ammo left and usually still don't even hit the paper.

I don't see this that often with guys zeroing smaller calibers of 30/06 or down.

My Elk hunting buddy was convinced by a few guys a couple of years ago that he needed a 300 mag for elk hunting and to hang up his 270. So he is out in the field opening morning with his new 300 Mag, it was zeroed as I did it for him, and his new 6 to 18 scope. We are hunting in woods that I am carrying a 4x on mine.

He sees a big bull at 150 yds starting to bed down, sets up a rest over a log without the bull detecting him. Put the cross hairs on the bulls neck/shoulder junction and pulls the trigger.

By his own admission, he said the barrel must have been 45 degrees in the air when the shot went off. He said he bet the bullet must have been 200 yds over the bulls head when the bullet got there.

The bull just got up and and trotted into the thickets.

My hunting buddy is a pretty honest guy. I really think this scenario plays itself out, more than not.

I can also justify it, from dropping over at the range on Sunday night after the Saturday opening morning. There are more guys there than the previous Friday night before opening. Each one is re zeroing his scope because he missed something over the weekend. They blame it on the scope, instead of their lack of ability to handle a magnums recoil.

I would say about 75% plus of that crowd is shooting some sort of magnum, usually either 7mm or 300.

It is not the round, just those who carry it that really can't handle it. to those that can, I have no qualm.

each hunter has an ethical responsibility to be able to handle his equipment and what it does.

Just a lot of guys with mags don't seem to in my experience. I see the Non guided hunters,, not the ones paying 5 grand to go elk hunting with a guide who is making everything a lot more perfect.

A lot has been written about hunters coming to go antelope hunting with a magnum and keep missing a lot of shots. The outfitter keeps a 243 around to loan them, and a lot of the time then the hunters connect.

I am amazed at how many of these guys at the range, that ask my help on zeroing their rifles, that when I give them the rifle with a case that has already been shot ( but they don't know it) and I have them aim at the target and fire.
How they still have the barrel recoiling in the air, and are bewildered because they saw no shot go off. I think that pretty much explains the problems right there.

I used the .300 Win Mag and 2 190 gr bthp match bullets on 2 whitetails back in the mid '80s. Both were instant kills.

This past season, I used my .300 WSM custom, the near ballistic twin of the .300 WinMag and 4 150 gr BSTs and one 180 gr FailSafes on 5 whitetails. One with a BST entrance at last ribs and exit between fore legs. She ran about 60 ft and tumbled down a ravine. After that I brained 3 with BSTs, the most distant at 200 yds. The last week of season I double lunged one with a 180 gr FailSafe just to disprove to myself all the negative comments on that bullet design. She went less than 50 yds.

Just a couple of weeks ago I killed 2 feral hogs with 190 gr Sierra Match Kings at 675 yds. Both were instant kills, the 1st so quite that the rest of the herd did not react till after I dropped the 2d one.

I intend on using the same 190 gr Sierra Match King bullet for all my hunting next season. I am still playing with powder and charge but my best loads so far have all been 2930-2980 fps and grouped less than 1" vertical at 600 yds with horizontal dispersion dependent on wind. If I travel west season after that I will use it on elk and pronghorn.

If shots on deer are to be close with a .30 mag you might consider tougher heavy bullets to limit meat destruction, 180 gr FailSafe or 180 or 168 gr Barnes X. If the rib racks are unimportant wait for a broadside shot with any bullet of at least 150 gr and double lung the deer, then you better have remembered your field dressing kit. Braining them is an option too depending on shooter + equipment precision.

[ 06-22-2003, 09:24: Message edited by: RuffHewn ]

First off, I don't shoot a 300 Win Mag, never have, and nor do I care if I ever do (short neck thing ). But, sure, it is a good deer cartridge. If your hunting larger deer, like up here in Canada, and your shots could be on the far side of 300 yards, it comes into its own. Also, if your deer season is the same time as the elk or moose season, even more incentive to pack a 300. To say a 300 Mag is needed for deer hunting is a bit of a stretch, even at longer ranges. Anything a 300 Mag will do, a 7mm Mag will do (on deer), and anything a 7mm Mag will do, a 280 or 270 will (on deer). It is all about what you shoot well. For the one gun hunter, a 300 is a good choice, if he sometimes hunts stuff bigger than a deer. I can handle the recoil of a 300 Win, but that doesn't mean I'm going to trade my 260 Rem in for a 300, just because it has the same energy at 500 yards as the 260 has at 200. I have a 416 Rem, but I don't pack it for deer often, but I could. Is it too much gun? Maybe, maybe not. I've only shot one deer with it, and the deer made it 20 steps after I hit, even after a marginal hit where I hit one lung, liver, and some green stuff. Obviously the larger calibers can turn a marginal shot into a very lethal one, within reason. Not talking about pure gut shots, but fringe hits. Now a 300 Win isn't the cannon some may lead you to believe, but it is a bit more gun than a 270 or 30-06. Maybe it is capable of some shots that these smaller cals can't do with sure results, but only if you can use the advantages the larger calibers offer if you flinch, etc.

Few hunters can use this reach, and you see it at the gun ranges every year. Yeah, I'm talking about you You, yes you. Your the guy that shows up with the new stainless/tupperware 300 Win Mag, with his bore-sighted Leupold (substitute Bushnell Trophy if you are from Canada ) big variable scope, and fires off a few Federal Hi-Shoks (not too many, they're expen$ive), shoots a buckshot pattern, fiddles with the scope a bit, then packs up to go wail away at a poor deer the next day or week. Yup, the 300 Win is one hell of a deer cartridge!

P.S., this probably isn't like most AR members in hindsight, but you all know who I'm talkin' about.

[ 06-22-2003, 10:15: Message edited by: todbartell ]

RuffHewn:

You are the type of guy I speak of that totes a 300 and can actually know how to use it, and make it connect. Guys like yourself I have no problem hunting around them carrying a 300 because they can shoot it.

In your post you indicate some of the Whitetails you have shot with a 300 and how far they went and then dropped. I assume you are speaking of Alabama whitetails? When I have been to Alabama, most of the whitetail I saw were the size of the deer here in Oregon ( blacktails).

This is my humble opinion and is not meant as a criticizm so please no one construe it as such.

I shot a deer last year, at about 300 yds. I had the luxury of the hood of a friends 1986 Ford F250 to use as a rest. The scope was a 3 x9 Leupold, with the Dot reticle set on 4x at the time. I actually watched the deer drop straight down in the scope as the bullet hit it!
( Did not see the bullet hit of course, for all the critics).

I'd like to say it shows the power and decisiveness of a 300 Win Mag, but I can't. The bullet was only a 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip shot out of a Ruger 77 Mk2, chambered in 260 Remington. Using IMR 4064 ( 43.5 grains), it was chronographed at 3350 at the muzzle. Recoil was nowhere near a magnum either.

Penetrated the right lung and basically blew up like a star burst in the left lung, destroyed about 10 pounds of hamburger on the left shoulder. Will be using a Partition the next time I carry that load.

The deer was just an average sized Blacktail, no trophy at all. ( however my biggest blacktail, about 175lbs on the hoof with a rack of 5 points on each side, dropped instantly also)
Head shot at 125yds, with the only gun I had with me. Last day of the season, but I was actually scouting for Elk. Oh the round: that was a Magnum!!! 22 Win Mag to be exact. (NO I don't advocate it for deer hunting, but it will do the job if you put the bullet in the right place).

Back to my point: bullet placement!! No matter what the caliber of the rifle it comes out of.

Seafire,

I have to agree with your appraisal of most hunters with rifles that are grossly in excess of what is needed for the chosen quarry. Many have had misses and insufficient hits with a .243 or .257 Roberts so move to a much more powerful caliber with much harsher recoil, then have even more poor hits and many more misses.

Your experience of rapid and instant kills with cartridges having much less power than a .30 mag is no surprise to me. I have killed most varieties of North American game with both a .270 Win and a .338 WinMag and whitetail deer with both a .300 WinMag and a .308 Win. The critters seldom remained mobile for more than 3-5 seconds. I have witnessed kills made with calibers ranging from .243 to .358 NormaMag and with perfect shot placement none killed any quicker or any deader than another. I embrace an opinion expressed by W.D.M. "Karamoja" Bell that bore size is largely unimportant if a vital organ is disrupted.

We could all just select 7x57 Mausers because it is really all that is needed for any animal that walks the earth. Of course this forum would be a lot less interesting then.

If I had to explain my choice of a .300 WSM, I would have to resort to wind drift and trajectory at longer range. A slight shift in wind direction or a variation of 1 mph in speed is much less of a concern at 600 yds with a .300 WSM starting an SMK 190 at 2950 fps than a .308 Win starting an SMK 175 at 2600. Also incorrectly using 600 yd come-ups for a 605 yd shot would not be a catastrophe with a .300WSM/SMK190.

The ballistic coefficient of no .277 bullet compares with that 190 gr Match King, although .270 Win velocity is more than adequate. There are outstanding bullets available for your .260 Rem and I am sure I could have done exactly the same on the 2 feral hogs with that caliber. The .260 Rem is IMO in the same category as most cartridges .257 Roberts to .338 WinMag, and that is suitable for all North American big game. If you tell me a .243 Win is also within that group IN YOUR HANDS I would not dispute it, because I know more than a few hunters that can do whatever needs doing with one, though several of them elect to do it with .300 magnums instead.

[ 06-23-2003, 09:10: Message edited by: RuffHewn ]

Seafire,
Perhaps it just the folks I deal with in my business who spend big bucks on hunting, and they are reloaders, shooters like most of the folks on this forum...thoes guys I see at the local range here like you describe are all locals, some are great shots but a bunch of them probably shouldn't be allowed a license, I'll give you that.

Lofter, take my word for it. This is one of those things that the reward if much greater when you have waited pateiently, and have picked the right trail, hid your scent perfectly, and waited until you actaully smell the animal. Bowhunting, there is nothing better. When I shoot with a gun, I am having fun and its cool and all, but when I actually get one with my bow, I am so excited, the treestand rattles from my shaking. I swear, that last monster I shot, I was so excited, I thought I was having a heart attack waiting that hour.

Bigcountry,
It's all irrelevant,man. Unless you've dropped umpteen thousand dollars to go to Africa to chase a big,wild cow around the bushes with a double rifle, or CRF, your just a want to be hunter, like me.
Trigger

Thats my plan man. Saving up for a Africa trip as we speak. Sounds like a blast. You know going here and there to hunt here in Canada or US has been fun, but after you shoot that one animal,its kinda downhill. A guy at my range got me into wanting to go to Africa. He said its nonstop action. And it will be with a gun. Leave the bow at home for that.

I've said it before but its worth repeating. When younger, I used to fish a lot of bass tournies. Conventional wisdom was to rig for the largest fish you hoped to catch in the worst conditions you might encounter. That is good advise for hunting also. Also, for me. it was a convience thing. I would spend a couple of months in Colo and Wy. I might hunt antelope, mulies, and elk. Rather than take an arsenal, I'd take a 300winnie with a good supply of 200gr Grand Slams and use them on everything. Worked good. In another thread, it seems that grizzlies have been protected for so long they have little concern for man. When one decides I am just another link in the food chain, I don't want to be standing there with some little pissy .243 in my hands.

Those of you trashing the 300 win mag really seem to have a thing about recoil. 300 winnies don't have any recoil, at least not enough to get all worked up over. I hunt with one, also a 270, 7x57, 30'06, 308 and a 338. In a reasonably built rifle none of them has excessive recoil, my 300 is a BLR and it's a pussy cat.

If for some unknown reason I could only have one rifle for NA hunting you can bet the 300 would be high on my list. It does just about everything well, with moderate recoil.

I can also say that at least the Houston contigent of AR members are shooters. We had 18 or so members at our recent shoot and no one there that couldn't shoot.

Beeman;

You described the exact place that I think that a 300 is a perfect rifle to take. Alot of guys who haul one don't get the opportunity.

Once again, I am not bashing the round, as I own one and Two 338 Mags. I just think if hunting rules were like in Finland where you have to shoot and hit a moving target of a moose before you can purchase your license, I think a lot less guys would be hauling 300s.

While I am against any government involvement of the dictates of our sport, If that was a requirement, I really think we would have a better quality of hunter.

Several seasons ago in Oregon here, I kicked up a large bull elk down in a creek bed thicket.

The Elk went charging down the creek bed, which was full of underbrush on each side. All you could really see was the top of his rack at times charging down the creek bed. I of course did not shoot, as their was about a million hunters all over the place. However about 8 shots went off at the elk.

When I got back up on the road, as I headed that way, when the " fire fight" began, guys were coming out of the woods, onto the road and asking "Did anyone hit it??"

Each one of these guys were not in a party together, we started talking about what we were carrying, each guy had a magnum, mainly 300 and 338s ( One 7 mag). Each had the big 50mm scope of some sort.

These are the guys I refer to that carry the 300 mags, or whatever mag. Unfortunately they are the typical guys who do so. Not fault of the round, as the gun did not go off by itself. However none of them ever got the Elk in their sites, all they saw were antlers and fired.

Its an attitude I refer to. With no ethics or care for safety of anyone else in the area. I went and got in my truck and drove to another area about 40 miles away up near Crater Lake.

I assume most of us on here are the type of hunters who more a less at least have a clue of what we are doing. Hell when I carry a 300, I don't load even a 200 grainer in it. I load a 220 grain Nosler Partition or a Round Nose.
I also load it hot, which I won't mention unless the critics on this board will jump on that too.
However it is chronographer in excess of 2950 using H 1000 powder. And mine carries a 4 x scope. It is flat shooting enough, just put the cross hairs on it, even with a 220 grain RN and it will hit right where I aim at 300 yds.

It is set up for Elk, plain pure and simple. However in most other circumstances I don't need something like that.

But we all know it is still Bullet in the Boiler that does the job, regardless of caliber. It is like a car with 600 horsepower. Any 16 year old would love to have it. However it is a man with experience that needs to be handling that, without killing himself. It takes experience. I unfortunately think a lot of Mag Carriers don't have it. It start this at 300 mag, because I don't think a 7 mag kicks any more than an '06. However a 300 mag does, and does so quite a bit. Especially with my handloads for mine.

But for a man with the balls and brine to carry one and use one, then it is the best thing in the world for him, and I would rather see that guy happy, than feeling like Beeman put it best
"standing there with a 'pissy' little 243".

Instead of this post being about a 300 mag for deer, it should be " do you have the ability to handle a 300 Mag...." Those that CAN and want it, then they DESERVE 600 horsepower!!!!

And I always have a seat for a 'HUNTER' at my campfire! Not so for a guy who is just out harrassing mother nature and couldn't hit Texas with his hat!!

Seafire,

The hunting rifle that I got and stayed serious with is a .270. Its good for almost everything I hunt, but a bit light on moose, elk or some bears. So when I hunted in griz country I decided to get a heavier rifle. An '06 is ok, but so close to the .270 (same case) that I couldn't see the point on a practical level of having the '06 and the .270. I still wanted something practical enough for Canada but heavy enough for griz. So I settled on the .300. If I'm hunting anything in griz country I'd like the option, even if I don't always carry it. When I do carry it, its good for whatever I'm hunting plus Brer Bear if need arises. To me its a practical issue, not at all ballsy.

Question: What is the heaviest possible .308 bullet available? I presently use 200 gr Barnes X or 180 gr Speer SP, depending on wallet size at purchase time.

Seafire, I've shot quite a bit at the Josephine County Sportsman Park. I remember quite a few magnums there, not to mention the jacked up trucks. I've killed a couple blacktail in our area with my elk gun, a 300 Win. I used it because I wanted to, not because it was needed. If I have small man's desease or not enough hair on my butt or my truck is not jacked up enough, I'm sorry. Why the hell do I need my 308 Win when I have my old rusty 30-30. Why should anyone ever bow hunt with a compound bow instead of stick bow.

Seafire, here's a real gem by you: "Contrary to this crew, I think the 300 Win is way too big on deer, anywhere. The main appeal is for those with too much testosterone." -Why don't you bring your .243 and do a 10 day blacktail hunt on Kodiak?

Also, "It was not conveying my needs, I just think a good rifleman does not need a 300 mag."

My younger brother was given his first rifle at age 14, a Ruger M77 in .300winmag. I've seen him kill around 40 blacktails with it, all on hunts in coastal Alaska brown bear country.

These sweeping remarks by you piss me off. If you want to stereotype some bozos you saw in the field or range, whose minds you can apparently read, go ahead.

Just don't go trashing a perfectly legitimate cartridge or those who use it in perfectly legitimate circumstances. You sound like an ass.

FWIW, I use an '06. Both of us have killed every deer we've ever taken with 180 Noslers.

DavidAK,

Who is trashing a round? I own one and Use one. Not that I am going to get a chance to do a 10 day blacktail hunt on Kodiak. If I came to Alaska, I would be hunting something bigger than what I can shoot in Oregon.

I tried to make clear that my point was not against the round, but the problem with a lot of guys who get it, that I don't think can shoot a 22 straight and they think it will make their hunting and shooting skills better.

If you think I am an ass, then more power to you. Not all of us can be as evidently sophisticated as a guy from Alaska. We really don't shoot here in the lower 48 anyway. Heck we don't even hunt. We don't have an ounce of experience.

If a man carries and knows how to use a mag of any type, I support the guy 100 % the same as I support a guy who can shoot a 243 and take Elk with it.

If someone who has a different view than you is an ass, I hate to tell you this, but evidently by your standards we have a lot of people who are asses in this country.

Heck, why be a pussy and own a pissy 300 Mag, when I know you can go down to any store in Alaska and get yourself a 375 or 416. If you want to be a macho man, don't do it half assed, get a man's gun!!

Its interesting on reading this post again...

The question was 300 Mag for deer....

Then a lot of guys who want to argue with someone who thinks it is too much for deer,
all of a sudden want to talk about needing it with you just in case of a grizzly or Brown bear coming nearby.

Not everyone experiences this people.

If anyone can't kill a deer with a 300 mag, then a bigger gun won't kill it either, because you aren't hitting it.

If anyone needs a 300 mag or thinks they do to kill a deer, then you hunt where the deer are really big suckers.

I think more people are just interested in arguing because their poor little pet round got criticized. Then the same crowd criticize me on other posts for loading rounds too hot.

Just wanting to argue or call someone an ass, or something else is evidently their reason for reading this board, not sharing of opinions, like their own or contrary.

We are all hunters and everyone of you is my brother... politics or firearm opinions different or not, we all share the same interests and passions. Arguing that this gun or round is better than this one or not is as dumb as two painters arguing which paint brush is better to pain the garage wall with.

If you can use it and get the job done, caliber and power or lack of it, doesn't really matter.

Name calling in any direction doesn't make anyone look any smarter or their target any stupider. In fact just the reverse. This post in getting ridiculous at this point. It has migrated a long way from the original question.

BBBruce and Ruffhewn

quote:

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Question: What is the heaviest possible .308 bullet available? I presently use 200 gr Barnes X or 180 gr Speer SP, depending on wallet size at purchase time.
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The heaviest commonly available .308 bullet I am aware of is the 240 gr Sierra Match King. The deepest penetrators are probably the 180 gr Xs and FailSafes and the 200 gr Barnes X.

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Nosler makes a 220 gr.partition semi spitzer.

I've loaded it for the 300 weatherby as a griz load.

[ 06-25-2003, 11:03: Message edited by: boilerroom ]

I have a 300 Winchester Magnum because that's what the guy who wanted one of my shotguns that I had for sale had to trade with.

It's a Sako 75. I truly don't need a 300 Win Mag when all I hunt is deer, and maybe elk one day, since I already have a 30-06.

I agreed to trade because I thought a Sako in that caliber would be easy to liquidate. But then the UPS man came with the rifle, and I just had to keep it.

I'll surely agree that you don't need a .300 Win. Mag. for blacktail deer, Texas whitetails, etc. For these you can easily get by, and have excellent results with anything between .243 Win. and .280 Rem., and enjoy the benefits of light recoil and all that goes with it.

Even so, a .300 Winchester is not too much cartridge at all for any deer hunting if you use strong bullets, and if you can shoot it well. Believe it or not, there are those who can and I know some of them.

I often use a .300 Winchester for deer, simply because I frequently use the same rifle for a half-dozen hunts in the same year, and quite often that rifle is a .300 Win. Mag. I might load a batch of ammo (including practice ammo) with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions in January, then hunt spring black bear, African plainsgame, New Mexico antelope, Oregon mule deer and elk, then Texas whitetails all in the same season and with the same batch of ammo. No, I don't need a .300 for the light stuff, but the utter simplicity and familiarity of using the same rifle and cartridge all year long is of great benefit, and saves untold hassles, especially if you're busy and don't want to screw around with whole bunch of rifles.

AD