I was at the range after work yesterday. Only one other guy was there and he was shooting a Ruger 77 MKII chambered in 270WSM. I'm sure it was a factory barrel, since I saw the typical Ruger warning stamped all over the barrel. The stock was laminate, no checkering, with a monte carlo, so I suspect it wasn't factory. He said he bought it off Gunbroker for $300 plus shipping.

He was shooting handloads with the 130gr blue tipped TSX bullets. Said they were loaded hot. We were shooting on adjacent ranges with a big dirt berm over 10 feet tall seperating them. While I was busy on the other side of the berm at the 100 yd range, shooting my 300WM, he set up a target at 200yds. Then while letting my barrel cool, I walked down to his target with him. He had shot about a 2" group at 200 yds. I figured it was an accident. But then he moved the target all the way to the end of the range, about 330 yds.

Daylight was fading, and the fog had moved in, and he was shooting off his camo day pack, so I figured he was dreaming. I made a point to ask him too showme the target, but I finished and packed up before he fetched the target, so again I walked to it with him. The group was a little bigger than 3 inches.

I have never seen that done. So now I have to apologize to all of those who I may have insulted in the past by accusing them of showing 100 yd targets, and claiming they were 300 yd targets -- shot with the Ruger 77 MKKII with a factory barrel. I seriously didn't think it could be done, but now I know differently. Of course I'm still sure that not all Rugers are that accurate, but that one sure was.

BTW, my NOS Ruger 77 MKII in 300WM shot real well yesterday too, but I shot factory loads and only the 100 yd target.

KB

I bought a Hawkeye in 257 Roberts, and it shot very poor accuracy. It was so bad that I gave it away, and the guy I gave it to still doesn't have it shooting well, although he said he knew what to do.

KB

After checking the obvious (scope, rings etc),
these "non shooting" have often needed a re crown
from listening to others who have had a gun that wouldn't shoot.


Did you look at the "star" pattern on the barrel
after shooting ?

I really like the Hawkeye rifles, so I bought 2 in .30-06 (one with a wood stock, one with an eraser stock), a .338 Federal, .300 Win Mag and a .375 Ruger. I know that 's a little excessive, but I have a very large collection of Rugers. Anyway, all of them are extremely accurate (1.5 to 1 moa) except for the .300 Mag. I tried all kinds of things, but it shot pie plate groups at 100 yards. I ended up selling it to someone who wanted it for the stock and action.
My experience with the model 77's is that most of them are accurate, but every now and then you really get a lemon.

My problem has been that it seemed that every one I tried, and I lost count how many, would shoot no better than about 2" at 100 yds, at best, and some were a lot worse. I had basically given up, and just planned on re-barreling. Hopefully this 300WM is an exception.

I just wouldn't have believed the accuracy that fellow was getting, if I hadn't seen it myself.

BTW, how do you like the 338 Federal?

KB

I'll get to see how good the new Hawkeyes are in November, as I'll be working up a load for an unfired one then.
It's LH stainless with the laminate stock in .270Win & it'll wear a Leupold VX-3 in 3.5-10x40.
Going to use it for whitetails in Oklahoma for its first outing.
It'll be fed with 130gr bullets - Gameking or some other non premium type.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I was at the range after work yesterday. Only one other guy was there and he was shooting a Ruger 77 MKII chambered in 270WSM. I'm sure it was a factory barrel, since I saw the typical Ruger warning stamped all over the barrel. The stock was laminate, no checkering, with a monte carlo, so I suspect it wasn't factory. He said he bought it off Gunbroker for $300 plus shipping.

He was shooting handloads with the 130gr blue tipped TSX bullets. Said they were loaded hot. We were shooting on adjacent ranges with a big dirt berm over 10 feet tall seperating them. While I was busy on the other side of the berm at the 100 yd range, shooting my 300WM, he set up a target at 200yds. Then while letting my barrel cool, I walked down to his target with him. He had shot about a 2" group at 200 yds. I figured it was an accident. But then he moved the target all the way to the end of the range, about 330 yds.

Daylight was fading, and the fog had moved in, and he was shooting off his camo day pack, so I figured he was dreaming. I made a point to ask him too showme the target, but I finished and packed up before he fetched the target, so again I walked to it with him. The group was a little bigger than 3 inches.

I have never seen that done. So now I have to appologize to all of those who I may have insulted in the past by accusing them of showing 100 yd targets, and claiming they were 300 yd targets -- shot with the Ruger 77 MKKII with a factory barrel. I seriously didn't think it could be done, but now I know differently. Of course I'm still sure that not all Rugers are that accurate, but that one sure was.

BTW, my NOS Ruger 77 MKII in 300WM shot real well yesterday too, but I shot factory loads and only the 100 yd target.

KB

There are a lot more factory rifles that will shoot 2" groups at 200 yds and 3" at 300 yds than there are shooters that have the ability to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
My problem has been that it seemed that every one I tried, and I lost count how many, would shoot no better than about 2" at 100 yds, at best, and some were a lot worse. I had basically given up, and just planned on re-barreling. Hopefully this 300WM is an exception.

I just wouldn't have believed the accuracy that fellow was getting, if I hadn't seen it myself.

BTW, how do you like the 338 Federal?

KB

The .338 Federal shoots fine. I just haven't taken it hunting yet. I'm still not sure whether it is a keeper or not.

I have to float barrels on all my Rugers for a start. Then fix triggers. Best fix on my .280 Mk II after all that other was a crown job. It shoots very good now; consistently under MOA with my handloads using Nosler BT's or Solid Base in 150 gr. Have not bedded the rifle.

Should have just bought a Tikka first and that would prolly be all I have. I was told that but I just had to have a .280! Merg

quote:

Originally posted by merganser1:
Should have just bought a Tikka first and that would prolly be all I have. I was told that but I just had to have a .280! Merg

You mean like this Rky Mtn Elk Foundation Tikka in 280?

My "go-to" rifle for deer is a MK II .300 Win Mag stainless boatpaddle.

I'm ashamed to say, I've never actually done any load development with it whatsoever. I have one load with a 180 gr. Grand Slam that shoots +/- 1.5 MOA in all 5 .300 Win's I load for and I just stuck with that. I am certain it will shoot under 2 MOA. But I have no clue as to how much.

I have two rugers that shoot great, sub moa, but they are very particular about loads. Some loads they don't like will go 2"+, but with loads they like, they are consistantly good.

My last group I shot with my 300wm m77 mII was 1.02" exactly @ 100yds. This rifle will shoot just about any 180grn bullet under 1.5", but 150grn bullets are a nightmare.

I have shot groups with my M77 mI .257R down to .27-.56" with plain 117grn Hornady interlocks.

i dunno but i do have a heavy bbl ruger varminter in swift that shots 1" groups at 300 (after bedding it)rare but i'm keeping that one

I only have one Ruger in my armory now. That should tell you something. The keeper was my first centerfire, a heavy barrel 22/250. It shot ok with lots of work, about .6MOA which is nothing to sneeze at with any 22/250 I would argue. Sadly though it had an oversized chamber that was a dog for handloads and case life. I had to work hard to get it right. It also had heaps of freebore and required well above book charges to perform. I was able to get it to work, but it would have been a disaster for a less experienced handloader. Also most factory ammo only clocked in the 3450fps mark, well short of a proper chamber.

I've had friends struggle to get MK1 270 and 280 respectively o shoot better than 2.5MOA, both of those went away.

Current shooting buddy has a hawkeye M77 in 257 Roberts. Again, really struggling to get anywhere near MOA. To my mind a 257 should do better than that.

Sadly, whilst Ruger sporters have lots of great qualities they can be a pain to get to shoot well. If you persevere you will end up with a bloody good hunting rifle.

For the record, my 22/250 is on it's third barrel and second stock. It will easily hold .5MOA and is my favourite varminter. It took some getting though!!

I'm by no means a M77 expert, but I have worked w/ a bunch and have observed a consistent pattern with these factory Rugers:

M77s come out of the box torqued from the factory upwards towards 100in-lb on the front angled action screw, and with the rear and middle action screws torqued all over the map. Having universal one size fit all inletted stocks, many of those will have the mag box completely in a bind, acting like a fulcrum, with much added stress on the barreled action. Add to this that many of the factory ringmounts come out of the package with much less than 50% surface contact area on the scope tube further adding stress to the equation. This is above and beyond any stress added from the barrel forend pressure point. With all this torque and binding, to me, it is not surprising to find examples that come out of the box showing much less than potential accuracy.

In my experience, removing this stress so that the barreled action can be torqued stress free within the bedding has improved accuracy unleashing far more potential than first observed out of the box. Even with those that shot well out of the box, this has always added to consistent accuracy.

I find that I rarely can torque a factory stocked M77s much beyond 35in-lb front/25in-lb rear/15in-lb middle before the mag box binds. Some can go a bit higher, some must go lower. This simple step will often help on non-magnum chamberings in non-bedded stocks. But, when in magnum calibers, you may run into issues with cracking the wood stocks without bringing the angled screw up to factory recommended torque as the magnum cartridges are less forgiving and will take advantage of any bedding loosness for a running start to develop a crack.

When the factory stock is properly bedded, I've had no issues at normal torque settings without seeing any issues of movement to include Rugers up to the 375R in an African stock.

To address the ringmounts, I always hand fit these to insure they mount squarely with approx. 80% surface contact area.

Once beyond this, you can always use the old tried and true method of using shim stock to relieve pressure from the forend pad. If the rifle responds positively, then you make a permanent correction. If the rifle responds positively to having a pressure pad, you then fine tune the amount of pressure and make a permanent correction.

I've found that the M77s can be made to shoot very well with these simple techniques making for accurate and reliable hunting rifles.

Best

Gary,
I appreciate all that info. Let me tell you about one annoying little Ruger 308 that I have.

First, I'll say that I don't use the Ruger rings. I gave up on that a long time ago, primarily because I think more of my scopes than that. I just hate to see the ring marks those factory Ruger rings cut into a $400 Leupold. I have used Warne, but lately I've used Leupold rings which are nicer looking, lighter, and they don't bugger the scope tube.

Now, about the 308 Ruger 77 MKII. It's stainless with a laminate stock. I bought it off gunbroker for what I thought was a good deal, mindful that I don't buy Rugers unless I figure I'm willing to pay that much for the action, and the stock in the case of the laminate, and consider it a bonus if it shoots well with the factory barrel. So far I've only bought donor actions, with maybe one exception - the 300WM I just started testing, which shot pretty well first time out with factory ammo - several one inch groups. I think that rifle has potential, so I ordered dies and 180 gr TSXs for it.

Side-track -- the 300WM is now wearing a Hogue full aluminum stock, with a piece of thin plastic, cut out of a Leupold ring package, layed horizontal behind the recoil lug in that flat area, to get the barrel to clear the stock all the way out. It tightens up well, front and tang, but I don't tighten the middle screw - just snug. I can hear the magazine box is loose, as it rattels when empty - like it's saying feed me, feed me.

Back to the 308 -- The guy advertised it, saying he was a benchrest shooter, who preferred Remingtons and clones etc. by email in answer to my questions. Either in the ad or by email, I can't remember which, he said the rifle had been worked over and shot real well. It was glass bedded in the tang, and the barrel shank area, the barrel had been pulled and set back a turn, re-cut the chamber, crowned, and the action face trued, and the lugs lapped. It also has a Timney trigger. I played the odds, and bought it. I thought it was odd that I was the only bidder.

As it turns out, everything he said is true, except the accuracy part. I keep thinking it just has to shoot well, and I've been to the range several times with a variety of factory ammo, and handloads. I've managed to get some 1" three-shot groups, but not consistantly. Usually it's shooting 3" or bigger groups. Also, the first shot - cold barrel - hits in a different place than the next two shots. I don't like that at all.

I can just see the frustration that rifle caused the previous owner, especially if he really was a benchrest shooter. He probably thought - I'll fix it, and make it shoot - so he put a bunch of time or money in it - and didn't succeed, then dumped it on GB.

My plans are to re-barrel it - probably in 308 - and put a matt black coating of some sort on the metal. It will be a neat rifle when it's accurate.

KB

PLEASE keep talking trash on the rugers .. it keeps the prices down!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
PLEASE keep talking trash on the rugers .. it keeps the prices down!

Jeffe,
I know what you mean. I'm not intentionally trash talking Rugers, but instead expressing some annoyance with them, and telling my actual experiences. Frankly, and IMO, the darn rifles would be worth a lot more if the majority of them shot 1" groups.

So as it is, they can be bought at very reasonable prices, sometimes, in used or slightly used condition. I've bought at least three stainless Rugers for $200 (or less) when I lived in a native village in SE Alaska. One is now wearing a PacNor barrel in 9.3x338. Another, bought elsewhere, is now in 458WM. They both are now very accurate. I had a 243 given to me, after a friend's son had a four-wheeler accident. The kid was ok, but the rifle had a bent barrel. I gave him $100 for it anyway, and I still have the action.

Trash talk or not, I still like Rugers. In fact, I bought one last night off Gunbroker. It's a like-new stainless 30-06, with the laminate stock. The price was fair, but not exceptional. I'll shoot it, in hopes that it's not accurate. That's because I have a PacNor pre-threaded and chambered 9.3x62 stainless barrel for it. If it's like the majority of my experience, it won't be accurate, but if it is, then it will make a fine 30-06 shooter. I call that a win-win.

My intentions for it are some kind of coating for the stainless metal (haven't made up my mind what brand yet) and a Timney trigger. I'll have to do something to improve the grip of that slick laminate stock. I may have to paint it in one of those neat patterns shown in AR and elsewhere. The laminate wood should do well in bad conditions, when sealed properly. Also, the Ruger stock works well with open sights, which I plan on having installed on the 9.3x62 barrel. There are some rubber grippy thingys ( http://www.grafs.com/retail/ca...duct/productId/12292 ) that stick onto the forearm and pistol grip, instead of checkering, which might do the trick whether on the clear finish or over paint.

KB

Those Ruger lam stocks have a couple things going against them when used on a sporter, one being they're a tad heavy, and two being they're like a bar of soap when wet

With your 308, there's no telling at this point being the rifle is no longer in factory new condition, was worked over by someone else, and has since changed hands. We could speculate all sorts of things at this stage.

Good Luck

You are right on about the 308. I don't know what to do with it except rebarrel. In fact I'm speculating a little about the prior owner's experience with it. I can see why it was sold. I could put something under the forend tip to cause pressure on the barrel, but I hate to do that, since with a good barrel that's just not necessary.

That's a good way to describe the laminate stock, with no checkering - "like a bar of soap when wet". I think I can fix that, as described. The good thing about it is that I don't have to buy another stock because I actually like the way the factory Ruger stock fits. If it was just plain walnut, I wouldn't bother with the paint, because it would probably warp or swell anyway, if exposed to rain. I would rather use the factory laminate than buy another Hogue, which is heavy IMO. I actually find the Ruger laminate OK in weight. Other alternatives, such as McMillan or HS are just too expensive, although very nice stocks.

I did luck out and bought a used McMillan that is going on the 9.3x338 soon. It's beefed up inside for the 375 Ruger. I plan on using the Hogue with the full aluminum insert on the 458, since a little weight won't hurt, and distributing the recoil over the entire insert may help avoid problems.

KB

My experience has been that most all premium barrels respond well to floating with all else equal in a properly bedded stock. But that is not always the case with production barrels and it is often not the case with a poor barrel as they may respond better to a forend pressure point.

Bottom line with the Ruger is they are simple and heck for stout making for a dependable hunting rifle that goes bang when you pull the trigger. Most I've seen with kinks could be traced to an issue and worked out to give more than adequate accuracy for shooting game animals in the field.

Best

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

That's a good way to describe the laminate stock, with no checkering - "like a bar of soap when wet". I think I can fix that, as described. The good thing about it is that I don't have to buy another stock because I actually like the way the factory Ruger stock fits.
KB

Guys,

FYI you can use skateboard tape to help (cure) the no chekering issue. Cost S/B about $10 for a good sized sheet of the stuff. It seems rough like sand paper, but no sand and won't scrape your skin at all. It just feels like it will

Try it, it really works well. But ya gotta make sure there's no oils (from skin and such) on the stock (clean with alcohol) and make sure the stock and tape are both good and warm to the touch. So it will stick and conform to the stock shape.

Roi (Who lives in rainy Washington)

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
i dunno but i do have a heavy bbl ruger varminter in swift that shots 1" groups at 300 (after bedding it)rare but i'm keeping that one

Butch, I have the same gun in Swift. One hole at 100 yards, if you do your part.......Tom

Had my eye on a MkII in .300 Win. for several months. It was in and out of the pawnshop, and when it was In, I was Broke. When I had cash, it was gone. FINALLY got up with it and brought it home, fired ONE shot and knew what its Problem was. The barrel vibrated like a tuning fork! And made the stock Sing like Aretha Franklin! Shit! Yet I shot dime-sized groups at 67 yards(the width of the creek bottom-only safe backstop). Well, the 1895 will do THAT. Anyway, took it to Douglas Barrels last week for a new tube, 26" Standard Target. Can't WAIT to get it back into the Hogue Full-length aluminum block stock and try it out. My thought was the factory barrel would be great for a 30-06 or .308, but not stiff enough for the Magnum. Stan asked me if I wanted it back, I just laughed. 'No, cut the piece of shit into 2-inch chunks,' was all I said.
The stock trigger seems good, though, yet it WILL have a Timney, Just Because. I've wanted a Long-Range AT&T rifle since I was a kid, this one will have to be It. I will never buy any other stock for a bolt gun but the Hogue's. It was EVERYTHING I wanted at HALF the price of ANYONE ELSE. I don't see how I could destroy it short of tracking over it with a dozer.

Hate to be a nit picker, but the blue tipped Barnes is a TTSX