Based on what you know about firearms and bullets, which rifle/scope/load combination do you think was most likely to have been used to shoot this group?

The answer to be posted in several days.

Question:
Which rifle/scope/bullet combination was most likely used?

Choices:
Blaser R 93, 3-9X Ziess Conquest and Nosler Ballistic tips.
Remington 700 BDL, Leupold 3-9X and Sierra MatchKings
T/C Encore, Leupold 3-9X and Remington Core-Lokt
Savage 116 FHSS, Nightforce 2.5-10X, Hornady Interlock

 

I went with the Remington. Had a hard time between the Rem and T/C Encore. It is hard to find a factory rifle that will not shoot well. Just figured it would be about the cheapest rig (rifle, scope, & bullet combo) you listed.

My old Parker Hale .270 is capable of producing groups like that on my good days. I usually use 130 grain Sierra GK's out of it and have a cheap 4-12X40AO Bushnell Sportview on top of it. I usually get 5 shots under an inch with about any 130 grain bullet I try out of that rifle.

The pic of target isn't showing up for me???

I have no idea what was used there. But, perhaps the better question is, "What would that tiny cluster look like if there were five rounds in the group or, better yet, ten rounds?"

Not meaning to take anything away from that fine target at all but I've seen many 1" shooters produce a random three shot group that small on RARE occasions. Of course the better the rig is the more likely we will "get lucky" but it seems most any rifle can shoot a tiny group from time to time. The proof of real accuracy is in consistancy, not the occasional exceptionally small cluster of three holes, is it not?

I thought you said "group". Where's the other 2 rounds? Why not ignore the one shot and tell us about your great 2 shot "group".

I agree with Jim C.; consistency is important but there are guns and bullets that would NEVER come close to a 0.286 in. group no matter how long you shot them in your lifetime.

I would also agree that a 5 shot group has more statistical validity than a 3 shot group and a 10 shot group has more validity than than a 5 shot group. Since anything I shoot at hunting is going to be either dead or gone in 3 shots, a 3 shot group works for me and it saves me a lot of ammo. I would also submit that two 3 shot groups has more validity than a single 5 shot group.

As for wasbeeman, if I just hadn't had the "flyer" the group (yea, 3 is a group) would have been about 0.15 inches.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
Since anything I shoot at hunting is going to be either dead or gone in 3 shots, a 3 shot group works for me and it saves me a lot of ammo.

Excellent point. I'll go a step further: Tight groups are fun to look at, but equally or perhaps even more important is that first shot out of a cold barrel. I'd give you an A+ if you can hit the dime every time.

I do a lot of 5 shot groups as well as 3. I usually only do 5 shot groups on hunting rifles when I do load development. Reconfirming zero and just shooting for practice I find that 3 shots work great.

Using the rational of saving money (ROFLMFAO)and that seldom do you shoot at an animal more than 3 times, since I am fortunate in that I seldom shoot at an animal more than once so why not, as posted, shot single shots? You know, shoot one time and then put it up until next hunting season. That'd save a bunch of money.

I picked the bullet over the rifle because those Hornady bullets shoot good for me too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40165144@N04/3692318492/

I really don't think that one 3 shot group tells us anything about the bullets or rifle used. You could have the worst combination on earth and still get the occasional small 3 shot group out of it. So although it is a good 3 shot group and I'm not taking away from that I think for us to say that the rifle/bullet combinaton was shooting well we would need to see 5 of those groups or, even better, 5 groups of 5 shots. Those 5 groups would need to all be shot one after the other with no option to throw away any that didn't quite make the grade.

here's a 416 AR 3 shot group .. shot in the rain, cold front blowing in, near dark .. 400gr at 2400, 2x7 scope ... i was just verifying zero, and WOW, i was happy ..

it's normally a sub-moa gun, but this was an exceptional group

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
consistency is important but there are guns and bullets that would NEVER come close to a 0.286 in. group no matter how long you shot them in your lifetime.

You must not shoot much. Every gun I ever shot has put the odd tight group together if you shoot enough groups, it means nothing. Those are the groups inexperienced shooters like to carry around with them to show off how accurate they and their rifle is. I got rifles that average 2" groups at 100 yds, yet every so often they will throw a group in the .2's or less.I kinda liken it to throwing rocks at pop bottles, sometimes you will throw 3 or 5 rocks in a row and hit the bottle every time then you will throw 50 more rocks and not hit it. We've all loaded up some sample rounds and tried them at the range and they shoot a nice tight all shots touching group, you think you got a load and you go make a bunch more and the best they do is 2". Or you load up 50 rounds of a particular load and shoot 10 5 shot groups and find that they shoot crappy, but you always seem to get one tight group out of the batch, it just happens. I don't get excited unless a guns shoots every group tight, then you got something.

Yup! Conversely you can have a good load that you can depend on and one day for whatever reason, you can't hit a barn wall from inside. Often that will send young shooters running in here angsting over one bad group. And folks are more than happy to tell them to have it recrowned, rebarreled, send it off to the elf factory for an "accurizing" and such.

In a factory match, I shot a certified .111 (don't forget this was not a bench rifle), however, my agg for 5 groups of 5 shots each was .7xx. (I had one killer group that you couldn't cover with a bed sheet) I did win the match however. Think about that when you hear the guys talking about old trusty rusty that'll shoot .25 groups every time, every day.

Nothin better than pissin on a guys parade eh fellas?! Typically if amunition is loaded with care and the rifle is well maintained, a proven load will open groups up if the wind is bad or the shooter is bad, or the sun is beating down. Usually the shooter is bad. I bet it's the Savage.

I voted for the Rem. but...it may be the savage..

No offense taken on any of the comments.

I'm not sure what the definition is of not shooting much. I have a 50, 100 and 200 yard range in my back yard and, when I'm home and the weather is suitable, usually use it at least once a week. When I shoot, it's usually benchrest shooting at targets.

Now there are those who will bring 100 rounds to the range and shoot them up in one sitting. I generally do less; maybe 20 or 30 rounds. I'm not sure I would get more benefit from shooting 100 rounds than I do with 20 or 30 carefully placed shots.

In shooting MULTIPLE different cartridges (read over 30), there are some gun and cartridge combinations that I doubt you would ever even get a 0.5 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards with (for instance my 458 Lott or 458 SOCOM).

One of the most unbelievable groups I've had was a 100 yard 3 shot group with an M1 Garand with iron sights that measured about 0.5 inches (I think I was wearing glasses at the time). That won't happen again any time soon.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
here's a 416 AR 3 shot group .. shot in the rain, cold front blowing in, near dark .. 400gr at 2400, 2x7 scope ... i was just verifying zero, and WOW, i was happy ..

And as always a FULLY LOADED Lead Sled. Pitiful and pathetic!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
here's a 416 AR 3 shot group .. shot in the rain, cold front blowing in, near dark .. 400gr at 2400, 2x7 scope ... i was just verifying zero, and WOW, i was happy ..

And as always a FULLY LOADED Lead Sled. Pitiful and pathetic!

Actually, no,sir. As i have tried to explain to you, which you refuse to hear, is that the leadsled is used for load dev and rough sight in. "fully loaded" means a bag, repeat, ONE bag of shot, for what its worth. the 416 doesn't kick enough to bother with one, unless you are going to take 30-40 rounds of chrono work.

i was shooting with a front rest, and wearing a fleece jacket, if that makes you feel better.

Man I hope the weather gets better soon for everybody so you all can get out and shoot. This thread had the makings of something interesting but all the sour moods chimed in with their bitches about where's the other 2 shots and ragging about lead sleds, jesus guys lighten up!
What the hell does it matter to anyone if the guy shoots 3 or 5 shot groups or whether or not a recoil reducing sled was used?
Anybody ever think about a pleasant or uplifting comment "ever"?

If I were a benchrest target shooter which I'm not I "may" be interested in 5 or 10 shot groups but I'm not I am a hunter and if my rifle groups something impressive in 3 shots I'm happy! If I am still shooting "at" an animal after 3 shots the last thing on my mind is how my tiny groups come apart a bit for shots #4 and 5. If you are still shooting after 3 shots your problems are bigger than the difference between a 3 and 5 shot group. Or whether or not the load was developed using a sled.
Lighten up people....................

Hey Snellstrom, It is beautiful weather here, plenty of Pollen in the air to let a person know Spring has sprung and a great day to go do some shooting. Or fishing, or Turkey Hunting where I am. Saw a HUGE Gobbler yesterday strutting around trying to impress the ladies.

I prefer the cumulative 1-shot groups myself. All from a pristine clean and lightly lubed(followed with two dry patches) bore.

No doubt 20-100 shots tells you if a rifle will do fine for BenchRest, but the first shot from the pristine clean barrel is what interests me the most.

I've never needed a third shot at Game in over five decades, so they just don't interest me. But for those of you who do, perhaps something else is wrong, like not enough Trigger Time.
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quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Actually, no, ...

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

For me, three shots is enough. I prefer three or four good three shot groups to prove consistancy.

Well Ron, I'm more impressed with your group than with mine. I wouldn't have thought a 30/30 leveraction could do that well.

I shot my next 3 shot group using the same load as in the first picture the only difference being that I used Remington brass rather than Federal brass. I used 43.5 grains of powder for this load.

In addition, I shot 3 shot groups with 43.0 grains of powder and with 44.0 grains of powder; both of those groups measured about 1.0 inch so it would appear that 43.5 grains is near the sweet spot. Further testing should tell me if Federal brass makes more accurate loads than Remington brass and I'll also test the load with Winchester brass.

I suppose you notice that this group is actually centered over the center of the target and just a bit high at 100 yards; exactly how I wanted it. I should be good to go using this load for groundhogs, coyote and deer this summer. I was gratfied to learn that the scope I'm using tracked well and there were no wild shots after a scope setting change as happens with some scopes. I did run it past my desired setting by 3 clicks and then back to the desired setting which may have helped.

I haven't been a huge of the 270 Winchester (sorry Jack) but, during the height of the Obama scare, I aquired enough excellent 270 Winchester once fired brass at a very attractive price to wear out at least one barrel. I have a hard time passing up a bargain; probably because of the influence of my frugel Norweigen father.

I'll post the details of the gun, scope and load tomorrow.

The gun used was number 3; the Encore shooting Remington Core-Lokts.

Compared to other bullets the Core-Lokts look a little rough and weight variability between individual bullets is more than with some others but they seem to shoot well.

You'll be happy to know I got a BUNCH of these bullets at a very good price from the same guy I bought the brass from.

Core-lokts are a very good bullet. The 120 6.5s and the 8mm 185s give me exceptional accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
The gun used was number 3; the Encore shooting Remington Core-Lokts. ...

The Rem Core-Lokt Bullets do not surprise me, but the Encore sure did. Not a fan of T/C at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I should be good to go using this load for groundhogs, coyote and deer this summer.

A 270 wouldn't be my first choice for chucks or yotes. But I'm intrigued about Ohio's summer deer seasons. Care to elaborate?

It's after dark and there's a light involved.
A .270 wouldn't be my first choice for that either.

quote:

Originally posted by ron williams:
[IMG:left] [/IMG]

For me, three shots is enough. I prefer three or four good three shot groups to prove consistancy.

Nice group, but you completely missed that round orange thing...

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
A 270 wouldn't be my first choice for chucks or yotes. But I'm intrigued about Ohio's summer deer seasons. Care to elaborate?

It's kind of a joke. I have a farm and it's a soybean year. In most soybean years deer come through regularly eating soybeans and the leaves of my fruit trees. I get nuisance permits and shoot them.

Sometimes there is a light involved; perfectly legal under the circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by ron williams:
[IMG:left] [/IMG]

AWESOME group with a 336. Good shooting!!
My son and I both have 336's in 30-30, and they do NOT shoot that well.
Our loads are similar to yours; 30.5 gns of IMR-4895 only with Nosler's 170 gn partition.