I need a rifle for a 14 year old. He is pretty big, 6'2" 150 pounds. I was thinking a 300 ultra in a remington sendero. He has already shot one from the bench and it didnt bother him. What other calibers are good choices.

What was he planning to shoot and from how far away? Best rifle could be anywhere from 22lr to 416 rigby!!
SR

He'll be hunting mule deer and elk, mule deer could be at 500 yards.

I would get him a true classic like a pre-64 M70 in 300WinMag or in 300HH. I don't believe the 300 Ultra is appreciable better than the other 308 Mags. An excellent alternative would be to give him a rifle of yours of which you are particularly fond and you get the 300 Ultra. In the future, your rifle will mean more to him than the new one you gave him, although that one will have more signifigance than any he'll buy for himself! If you get or give him a Rem 700, please replace the trigger group. Ku-dude

The sendero that we shot had a pretty bad trigger in it. He has told me that he just wants performance and it looks that the Ultra is gonna be it unless I hear a good reason not to. I will buy n aftermarket trigger i just need to know what kind to get and how much it will run, any suggestions?

Avidhunter: My father took me to a gun shop twenty four year's ago to buy me my fist true white tail rifle. Model 70 carbine, chambered in your's truly .277. Finaly put the same scope I have on that rifle for the those past 24 yrs. to pasture, don't get me wrong the scope is still fine just wanted a diferent TASCO. I have had that rifle in the thickest swamp's wood's... you name it it has been there and back and never let me down. Oh yeah I to have the sendero's, the medallion's, ruger's, they are all good rifle's but I will never ever part with my model 70 so help me God. Oh yeah before I forget try adjusting that trigger before you buy one you will be surprised

For what it's worth, I'd take him into a good gunstore and let him shoulder various models and makes of rifles. Whichever fits him the best and feels good to him should be the winner. He may want a M70 or M77 or ABolt or No. 1 or, well, you get the picture. I'd place a definite emphasis on woodsmanship, hunting and tracking skills and getting as close to the game as possible, rather than long distance shooting. That is important, I don't mean to belittle marksmanship, but we owe it to the game to be as vigilant and skillful as humanly possible. As the chambering, well, there's lots of cartridges that in that 300 ultra range. Lots of cartridges that might be better if he's just learning to shoot a medium game centerfire. If he likes the sendero and that round, and you don't think he'll develop bad habits or grow to dislike range work because of the kick, go for it. But make sure it's his decision, if he gets it just because it's what someone recommends or to please his dad, he'll probably trade it away at some point.

I still have my first rifle, though my family didn't pay for it (I did!!!) my father and I walked out of a second rate pawn shop with new used Winchester 94 in 30 WCF. I still have that old rifle, even though I don't take it to the field anymore. I wouldn't trade it for the David Miller custom rifle that has been posted on this forum. Don't get me wrong, I can only dream of having a rifle that nice (it is a beaut isn't it) and would get one if the opportunity arose, but not at the cost of sacrificing that little Winchester.

Just an opinion.

To be honest I would just reccomend a 30/06 in a decent bolt gun, you probably couldn't go past a cz 550 American in 30/06. If I were buying another 30/06 I would by-pass my Ruger and get a cz 550.

I do not see any reason for the .300 ultra as a first centerfire. Just my 10c worth.

avidhunter,

A bolt action rifle in .308, that's enough to start to shoot. Very effective, low recoil great accuracy.

I gave my son my old model 70 featherweight 270. He wont hunt with anything else, and I bought a new gun for myself. one of the greatest moves a dad can do.

He is now 16, and we are going for elk and deer next month, and I offered him one of my foofoo german guns and he just smiled, and said he would stick with his "bearkiller".

There is lot more that a teenager wants or needs than a new cartridge or rifle that dad wants.

I could have sold that rifle for maybe 500 bux, but it is invaluable to him.

and it is a good trainer for shooting skills, with not enough punch to create a flinch.

You asked for it!!

You should let your son try the .577 T-rex,,with 200 grains of H-4831,,and 750 Barnes monolithic solid,,,JUST KIDDING !
A .308 Win mag,.30-06 Springfield,6,5 mm x 55 would be good alternatives. I would say .300 RUM in remington rifle and full house loads( 3300 fps and 180 gr.) will scare him to death if the scope is too near that he'll have it right over his eyebrow !!Then he won't go visit the shooting range anymore

I'll go on a limb and recommend a little known brand that has surprised me and exceeded my expectations: Howa. In particular the Model 1500. I bought a 1500 Lightning stainless/synthetic .30-06 NIB for $399. Slapped on a set of Weaver bases to mount a old Weaver K4 on Weaver steel rings that I had lying around. Once the rifle broke in, I was shooting 1.3 to 1.0 MOA groups. The ammo it likes best is $11.00/box Remington Express Core Lokt 150 grain.

I decided to upgrade the accuracy by switching to a Sightron SI 3-9X40 in Burris rings and replaced the flexible plastic stock with a Bell & Carlson fiberglass/kevlar stock with an aluminum bedding block. The rifle now shoots honest .6 to .7 MOA groups at 100 yards from sandbags, with the scope set at 8X.

Also, the B&C stock comes with a 1" thick Pachmayr Deccelerator pad, making recoil a non-issue.

I know some will question that level of accuracy from an stock rifle with a sporter contour barrel, using cheap ammo, but that's what it does.

[ 09-27-2002, 19:38: Message edited by: ksduckhunter ]

I dont think anything below a 338 would be too much, im 6 even and 138 lbs at 17 and I can shoot just about every cartridge this side of the 375 UM my dad hand loads without a problem, but a 06 or 308 would probably be best, I do however like the 300 H&H or winmag as they give u a bit more room and you can always load them down if they hit too hard.

Get him a 30-06 in whatever model or brand feels best to him at the gun store. He wont be undergunned and ammo is readily available. swede

Hello Avid Hunter - you mention mule deer at 500 yds. Believe me this translates into a lot of range time. I posted something about my experiences on recoil under "How light for a 9.3" by Merkelmeister. Read it and relate those values to what your son has used and experienced.

I started hunting in 1951 and over the years I've seen too many enthusiasts come a cropper because they were seduced into using a rifle that was too heavy to carry all day or with too much recoil to enjoy practicing with at the range.

I went hunting in the Kalahari last month and after getting my Springbok I had almost more fun teaching another engineer friend of mine how to shoot with my 250/3000 than I got from hunting myself.

Because of the light recoil he was able to concentrate of target acquisition and trigger control and ended up with 4 Springbok of his own. (OK he also missed seven others!)

He then wanted me to promise thatI would give him first refusal if I ever wanted to sell the Winchester - or failing that, would I leave it to him in my will.

These shots were all at ranges from 250 - 350m and a Springbok generally weighs in at about 40 - 48 lbs - so as a target it isn't all that big.

Guess what I want to say is - buy him a light, low recoil rifle so that he can learn to hunt with confidence and introduce the heavy firepower a bit later.

A 0.243", 250/3000 or a 7x57 (which, with a 150 gn bullet, is quite adequate for Kudu sized animals) will start him on a long and enjoyable hunting path.

Cheers edi

The Senereo is a lot of rifle to carry around chasing elk and that caliber is way too much for a 14-year old. This isn't a slam but I don't think 1 14-year in 5000 has the discipline or experience to take advantage of the capabilites of a rifle like you suggested....range estimation, trigger control, etc. Anything more than a 30/06 would be a disservice and I would rather see him with a .308.

I have a sendero in .300wm,the thing is heavy enough to make the felt recoil lighter than most of my .308win and /06 sporters.The only way I'd take it on a hunt is if I was riding horseback,or,sitting in a stand.It's not a rifle for carrying over hill and dale,then having to pack it and whatever you bag back out.Kind of side with DB. At least with a .308 you'll be able to get cheap ammo for practice.

I have a 300 ultra in a PSS. I think it would be a whole lotta gun for a 14 year old. If he's solid he may be able to handle it. I'd say if he can't benchpress his weight then get something lighter in recoil.

Kids vary greatly in physical capability at this age is why I mention this.

I am not a hunter so my opinions are as they say "for entertainment only" but these new short Magnums have caught my interest. I think he would be very interested in something "New" and powerful and I will say it... way cool. The 270WSM looks like an amazing round. The press (yeah I know) says the recoil is moderate and these cartridges are turning in great performance. A bit of pride and confidence will go a long way for a new shooter/hunter. He may feel you have given him a winning edge and make the amazing commonplace. Remember he is a kid, The kid in me wants one of these short magnums....... NOW......but first I must have a 6.5, Oh well, I will defer to the game getters I have read. I just thought I would put this out. I guess I would say to the collective hunters, Would you take one of these if offered and rememger your 16 and a .308 was your grandfathers gun! ha.. JB

JBMauser,
To answer your question, No, I wouldn't use an RUM or an STW for GP hunting even if you bought it. I'd I'd sell for whatever I could get for it and buy another .308! (my dad used to say "I'd trade it for a yellow dog , and then shoot the dog" That's about what I think of Hyper-magnums. but I like yellow dogs )
They are a very specialized, niche cartridge/rifle.

Avidhunter,

Do yourself and your son a favor and get a 308 or similar cartridge in a solid rifle. Practice. And just go hunting. If he wants to put the time in on the range and invest in a specialized rig later, after he's got some good experience under his belt that's fine.

Barry

270

The thought of shooting "at" big game at "500 yards" nauseates me.

In my opinion, your son would be best served with a standard weight rifle in anything from .260 to .30-06 with a fixed power scope from 2.5X to 4X, and--most importantly--he should be limited by you or his guide to taking shots within the point blank range of the gun and cartridge.

First time hunters should never have to deal with trying to estimate hold over on game, and giving a first time hunter a long-range rifle chambered in a long-range cartridge with a high magnification variable scope does him or her, the game animal, and the sport of hunting a disservice.

"If you can get closer, get closer; if you can get steadier, get steadier."

Well guys he was making 500 yard shots on silhouetes that are the size of a deer's vitals with the ultra mag that he shot, and I will be right by him wherever we are and i will be able to tell him where to hold. The kid knows how to shoot. He has decided that he wants the Model 700 Sendero with the stainless fluted barrel. You guys gotta remember, kids have much better eyesite and are just as good if not better shooters then we are, they just have to be disciplined. Numerous trips to the range every month will be at hand.

You're telling me that a kid can consistently hit a 10" circle at 500 yards??? That's 2 MOA...Add in wind, estimating holdover, etc. and couple that with the fact that the vast majority of off the shelf factory rifles strain to shoot 2 MOA off the BENCH at 100 years. Bullshit!

I don't mean to offend but this is the most un-sportsman like comment I've ever heard. It just sickens me. Think of the pain and suffering he is sure to inflict on some beautiful game animal. This is the height of irresponsibilty.

If the kid is a good as you say, he ought to be the winner at Camp Perry every year; and with a sporting rifle to boot. What a crock.........

Because he is capable of it doesnt mean that every shot he takes will be at 500 yards. And yes he did consistently hit that target at 500 yards.

Let me rephrase that-once i figured out the hold, he hit consistently.

Mmmmm - man asks for advice and guidance for his son's rifle .....

14 recommend a lighter calibre for the youngster

3 feel a powerful magnum is OK - one says that he doesn't hunt.

3 only comment

Despite the odds, Man says that he will buy the magnum .... oh well.

Good Luck - edi

Alright, since you guys know everything about the kid I'll just get him a Remington 700 in 270.

Avidhunter - a better choice.

At present I'm busy fitting a Walther barrel in 0.270 into a K98 action for a long range mountain rifle. If possible I am hoping to have the finished weight down to around 6 lbs.

When I dream back over my years of hunting I keep seeing that until this season my longest shot was ~ 160m. OK a lot of that hunting was in bush - but then on the plains you learnt to stalk close to Springbok - becomes a game of its own to see how close you can get. Helps pass the time too.

As the result of my hunt in August - where the animals were so skittish, and sand dunes provided no chance of stalking, I found the need for a rifle that would make long range ie > 400m shots.

I finally settled on the 0.270 - and since I once spent a year walking and working in desert sands - I also knew that I needed the lightest possible rifle that I could make - and recoil be damned.

But that is all with a lot of experience.

Beginnings are so terribly important.

My Dad first took me duck-hunting with him when I was only 8-9 and later, when I was about 11, he led me up to my first shot at a prairie-dog sized animal. He stalked us up to within 20m of where the poor chap was sunbathing on top of a rock overlooking a small ravine.

After we climbed down to recover the animal he made me carry it back up the mountainside - and did it get heavier and heavier ...

I then had to field-dress, skin and butcher that animal. All the time fighting back the overwhelming desire to vomit.

At 14 your son still has a lot of living to experience. Make his first hunt a sure thing, a memorable experience, a start for a lifetime of outdoor pleasure - as sure a hunt as you can "arrange". This means among a whole lot of other things - close range shots, a low recoil rifle, fairly level terrain, the correct clothing, boots etc. A warm place to get to in the evenings and recover from the cold exertion of the day. All of us can easily expand on this list - if he takes up and follows the sport he will experience the lousy days all too often - but he will only have one first hunt - ever. Stack the odds in his favour.

Best of luck - wish I was there with you - cheers edi

I'm with RickMD. Shooting elk at 500 yards bothers me. Teach him to be a good hunter. If the best he can do is close the range to 500 yards, he's not much of a hunter.

There is too much bragging these days about long range shots, and shots on running game. Both instances tell me you've made a mistake as a hunter. You blew it.

I've also noticed no one ever wounds game at 500 or 1000 yards. They always kill them instantly or miss them entirely. (My guess is that after the game runs off they never walk the 500 yards or 1000 yards to check for blood, they just chalk it up as a clean miss and move on.)

I'd start him out with a 25.06 Rem. or .270 Win. then in about three or four years reward him with a .300 WSM or equivalent if he wants more firepower. He sounds like he's big enough to handle about everything, just needs to learn some hunting skills and you've got him started just right.

Sorry if it seems I've come down on you and your boy. I consider long-range silouette shooting as totally different than hunting. They are unrelated.

I'd opt for something that he could get ammo for anywhere and that he will enjoy shooting. I think a 270, 280 or 30-06 would make a lot sense. If he really likes a 'magnum' why not a 7 mm rem mag or a 300 win mag. I agree with going to a gun store and letting him see which make and model fits him best, and he would enjoy carrying in the field. I don't know your son but most people shoot what they have confidence in and are comfortable with, therefore the rifle/caliber that he likes and belives in would proably fit his needs best. I'm sure your experience and guidence will help guide him. But just for the the heck of it my pick would be a model 70 winchester 24 ' barrel in -06.

Well guys i found a used Sako L691 270 and put a nikon monarch 4-12x40AO on it and it shoots .5 moa consistently and it is very soft recoiling. 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips for mulies and 150 grain Nosler Partitions for elk.

Nice rig! When you take him out to the range, get him off the bench and have him practice shooting from field positions--including getting into them smoothly and quietly--under modest time pressure, say, 20 seconds to go from standing with the rifle in his hands to getting into a supported shooting position (will you teach him how to use a shooting support sling?) and taking the shot. I'd be surprised if he could reliably put all shots into 2 MOA under these simulated field conditions at first. (As a point of comparison, Gunsite's nominal time after spotting the target to get into shooting position and take a shot at unknown range is 10 seconds.)

In the field, keep shot distances within the point blank range of the rifle/cartridge at first (say, 250 yards as a maximum and under 150 if at all possible) and you'll be on your way to making an ethical hunter out of your son.

[ 10-07-2002, 17:37: Message edited by: Slingster ]

ok...i'm 14 going on 15 all over again....and daddy is well off. Let's roll on down to the upper end gunshop and ........Gawd I want the Sako Hunter in 25.06...let's top it off with a Leupold VXIII in 3.5-10x50!!! Yeah baby!!

Ok I'm done dreamin now. Get him what he wants...but be helpful and take all the BS in here with a grain of salt. I started my kid out with a 243 but he isn't the bruiser your boy is.

Wow, .300 RUM for a first rifle! How much shooting experience does he have, both with the RUM and other high powered rifles? I only ask cause if you shoot the .30 cal magnums too long and they will get to you. If he intends to do a lot of shooting, I think you can do better than a super mag for him. My brother and I both do a fair amount of shooting and even the "lowly" .300 Win Mag gets a little tough after 30 some odd rounds. The Sendero is a heavy gun, which can help, but will also be a pain to pack around. If he is going to be sitting all day watching a tree line, and he is exceptionally recoil tolerant, the .300 RUM will work. Personally, I would prefer a M700 BDL in .30/06 or maybe 7mm Rem Mag. Both will be lighter, easier to handle, and the elk ain't gonna know the difference if your son does his job.

Although it takes practice, I see nothing wrong with a 500 yard shot, assuming the person is capable of the shot. I work with a guy who consistently shoots 4 inch groups - at 700 yards. He carries a range finder, and know the ballistics of his rifle to the inch. The fact is that I trust his ability on a shot at 500 yards more then 90% of the hunters out there at 100 yards.
BTW, he shoots a 7mm STW in a Sendero.

at least the kid has been shooting for a while,I saw a young kid and his dad getting ready for the special Michigan youth hunt two weeks ago,kid never shot more than a .22 before,after 15 rounds with his dad`s 30-30,hitting a gallon milk jug 3 times the proud dad was almost jumping for joy,his son was "ready to hunt his first deer".the jug was 35-40 FEET away if that.when they asked me where to try to find a good place to "hunt" I was lost.I even offered extra ammo at no cost for a little more practice,but his dad said he was doing as well as he could shoot (the kids dad)and didn`t need any more practice.I don`t know if I want to hunt around here anymore.this doesn`t relate to this question,but everyone shoots to a different accuracy (or lack of) standard.I`m glad steel targets don`t suffer slow lingering death`s or require a sometime follow-up shot for these long range "shooters".I hope avidhunter`s son does well and learns the fun is in the hunt not just the shot.let`s not give the anti`s ammo for their (so called) cause by extra long range wounding of game animals.