Hello guys I am looking at picking up a Mauser Oberndorf 30-06 type B Sporter serial Number 53674 circa 1912 in overall good condition. All matching serial numbers

I am looking for inputs concerning the barrel condition. I am unable to post pictures as the barrel interior is the most difficult to photograph however I will endeavor to describe it as best I can.

The rifling quite clearly with lands and grooves visible although the bore is quite dark.
There appear to be small scratches on both the lands as well as in the grooves, these seem parallel and in the direction a bullet would travel/spin.
The bore has been thoroughly cleaned and still maintains the same dark appearance.
The muzzle the grooves and lands are not worn out and inserting a cartridge into the muzzle end does not swallow the round.
The throat area has definite ridge or ring apparent where the bullet would jump from the throat into the rifling. In this area and for about 3/4 inch the lands appear to be rounded. Then seem to sharpen out.
I tired this gun at the range with Federal 180 gain rounds but at 50 yards it was about 12 inches high and the groups were about 6 inches with iron sights.
At 25 Yards was about 8 inches high and the group as about 3 inches.
The crown appears ok with no visible dings/ mars etc.

I need to get some advice on the barrel condition, I ave read that old Mausers will need to be re regulated for 100 and 200 yards with a taller front sight.

There is no bedding in the receiver section of stock and it is quite possible the trigger guard front may be in direct contact with the recoil lug.

It barrel is not free floating and bedding appears to have been put in the fore grip area keeping the barrel in contact with the stock in more than one area.

Please give me some advice as to what the barrel bore on a mauser should look like again this is a sporter and not a on a military surplus rifle.
What kind of accuracy would be appropriate and how much would and improperly bedded stock effect accuracy.
If necessary I can post pictures of the gun and stock.

Any inputs suggestions or advice will be most appreciated.

thanks

If the price is right I would buy it reguardless of the bore. It could be rebored.

Hi all can I get some advice from you on the following:
1)What should the internal of the barrel look like on an older gun should the bore be bright and shiny?
2)What kind of groups should I expect with a Factory loads on a 100 year old gun.
3)Any suggestions for simple tweaks that would aid accuracy, like bedding,things to check.

Thanks in advance

Welcome; Without a direct look see I hate to comment: A dark bore does not necessarily mean the barrel is cooked, more of an indication that mercury primers were used in the past without almost an instant cleaning. On a Mauser the guard does in fact attach directly to the recoil lug - find yourself a schematic and you'll understand. As far as shooting high I would be very suspicious of that bedded area in the fore-end, just perhaps it is forcing the barrel up. FWIW --- John303. *** yes post some pics.***

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
If the price is right I would buy it reguardless of the bore. It could be rebored.

It could probably have a liner installed for less. That would keep the caliber original if that matters.

Dennis Olsen used to do liners for $250 but that was a few years ago.

401

I agree ith Doug, if it is priced right.

The open sighted Military 30-06's I have will group 1.5 to 3" @ 100yds, 3 different rifles all made in the early 40's or earlier.

12" 100 yd(6"X2 for 50 yds) groups from your rifle, and the fact you say the bore is dark, probably indicate a well worn bore. Bedding and float will contribute to opening the groups up a bit, but not to that great an extent.

Reline it, like has been suggested, if the prices and stars all line up for you.

Jerry

quote:

Originally posted by 401Nitro:]

1)What should the internal of the barrel look like on an older gun should the bore be bright and shiny?

Thanks in advance

Yes it should look bright & shiny regardless of age.

I have a 30/40 Krag that is well over 100 years old & the bore is pitted some from being stored improperly, but other than that, still bright & shiney.

I have several 8X57 Mauser barrels of various vintage from the mid '30s to mid '40s & those are all bright & shiney, some of them are still pristine. One is better than any new factory barrel I have ever seen.

A dark bore probably indicates improper cleaning after use of corrosive primers & is most likely beyond help from the groups you discribe.

If the price is right & the rest of the rifle is in good condition, buy it, spend $250-$300 on a lining job & enjoy a fresh bore in whatever caliber you like.

If it were me I would keep it 30-06 if the barrel is so marked.

As all the other posters say, if the price is right then buy it if you like the rifle. My only concern is the groups you are getting with the rifle, they seem very large. I suggest you try different bullets, both round nose and spizer, and also different bullet weights to see if the groups shrink in size since sometimes bullets don’t stabilize correctly.
Finally try to use an electronic bore cleaner. I made one similar to the one in the link bellow and it is surprising the amount of crud that it cleans from the bore of a rifle.
I bought a 77 year old rifle with the bore in very good condition (no pitting or scratching but somewhat dark and dirty) after much cleaning the regular way I used the bore cleaner described bellow and now it’s very good plus to excellent.


http://www.surplusrifle.com/re.../copperout/index.asp

Jorge01 the barrel was cleaned with electrolysis and a huge amount of crud came out after reading the exact same article. After this I still have not tried it again but am trying to eliminate all the other factors especially the upward pressure created on the fore grip by the bedding in the area.

place it in a mule stock.. a 50 fajen will work, and see if the groups change.. this eliminates 100 evils, for 50 bucks

An excellent action, the bore is pretty much shot out it appears but who cares, you can rebore it..

Also I have plenty of original 8x57 stepped barrels off military rifles all with excellent bores otherwise they become tent stakes..I also have a couple of nice custom German barrels in 8x57 off German Sporters..If that would help you give me a email at ray@atkinsonhunting.com pretty soon as I have a guy that comes and picks them up every 6 months or so, and he is overdue.

Thanks guys for the suggestions and offer on the barrel, problem is I live in India where re-boring or changing a barrel is not an option due to regulations in place. So I am going to give it another try there was a lot of pressure on the barrel from the stock especially on the right side of the fore-grip so I will get rid of that and give it another go, if that does not work I do not think it will be of any use trying to play around more and the best option maybe to go for another option which works out of the box. Will post and let you know how I get on.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

I have plenty of original 8x57 stepped barrels off military rifles all with excellent bores otherwise they become tent stakes..I also have a couple of nice custom German barrels in 8x57 off German Sporters..If that would help you give me a email at ray@atkinsonhunting.com pretty soon as I have a guy that comes and picks them up every 6 months or so, and he is overdue.

A military "stepped" barrel can be turned to a constant radiused sweep from the muzzle "step" to achieve a very pleasing contour.



Unlike stepped barrels that are turned to a taper making for a too thin profile, this contour still has enough "beef" to maintain zero W/consecutive shots.



As you can see from the above, the twist rate of the military barrels achieves great accuracy W/200gr bullets..

There have been no modification to the throat or other internal spec's, just a flat recessed crown job on the muzzle.

Hi Guys just an update on the type B, I just could not get it to shoot right, I was lucky that in the end I got another option with some nicer wood and a bright clean bore came up that was able to shoot a 1.5 inch group with open sights at 70 yards. So my decision was made simpler, rather than modify or play around go with somethings that worked straight out.
Interesting thing on this rifle though is that is has Birmingham British proof marks on the reciever i.e BV,BP, NP with the crown above, it is in 30-06 caliber.

Glad you got a new rifle. What make is it? I have found a Mauser 10.75X68 in Madhya Pradesh and am trying to find ways of exporting it out to NZ.

I have a 6.5X54 mannlicher Schoenauer which has a dark bore though the grooves and lands are obvious. It used to shoot 3" groups with open sights at 100 meters but I tried to polish the bore by fire lapping it with 80 grit material on lead bullets and then I tried poslishing it with a cotton swab & lapping compound. The bore did not improve much & ended up with those parallel lines but now it shoots 6 inch groups at 25 meters! Worse still, the odd bullet key holes. So I wonder if I have damaged the muzzle while trying to lap it & therefore it need to be re-crowned. I did have the barrel slugged & it was within spec.

Have you really cleaned the barrel with a good copper solvent and a carbon solvent?

Please post some photos of your new rifle.

Nakihunter,
Yes I have also seen a few mausers in 10.75X68 in India one was type A lying in a gunshop the owner had no use for it since you cant get rounds in India for it.
My other rifle is a Type B Oberndorf Sporter in 30-06, like I said with British proof marks on the receiver, bore almost new, the rifling is perfect as is the throat.
What you have described on your 6.5X 54 mannlicher is exactly was was happening with the rifle I got rid of, it was keyholing as well every few rounds.
The best way to really clean out a barrel especially an old one is with lab grade ammonia solution and a 3volt set up to an electrode, really gets the gunk out. There may be better ways but I found this takes out more after using solvents like Sweets 7.62, Robla Solo Mil, Hoppes etc.
I will post some pictures in a bit, just getting some furniture polish off the stock which is what gun dealers do to it in India for asthetics.
Good luck getting your 10.75X68 out of India mate!!

I had a nice 10.75x68 Mauser type B and a Henry Akin custom rifle (sold it to 404 on AR) both were in excellent condition and both shot well. I built another full custom on an FN action and sold it on AR also.

I shot a few buffalo with the caliber and it worked like a charm with a 400 gr. .423 Woodleigh at 2150 FPS and some more buff with a 350 gr. Barnes X at 2300 FPS and worked equally well..It pretty well clones the 450-400 balistically and that my fiends is high praise indeed.

The 10.75 x 68 is a super gun, mild of recoil and kills big stuff very well indeed. A much overlooked option of a DG caliber..The only drawback I see is how long will brass be available..