quote:

you just make a X between the eyes and the ears and pull the trigger in the middle of the X.

Paul that is exactly how I do it as well, I never said I tried to shoot through the chest. I just said I don't think the .22lr is efficient enough. I'm sure every animal would have died eventually from the wound, but that it didn't end all vital functions instantly with the head shot. None of the livestock I've shot this way has ever got up and walked off either, but waiting minuets for them to die is too long in my opinion. If you want to continue to use the .22lr for that kind of work go ahead, I just choose not to.

The average US hunter should never take a shot beyond 200 yards.

The vast majority of rifle ranges I've been to are 100yds. With a few 200 yarders here and there. All shooting is done from the bench - no kneeling, no prone. This, and about 10 or so rounds down range constitutes getting ready for hunting season for most hunters.

Yes there are those on the forum who say: Not me, not me! You guys are the exceptions, not the rule.



.

Hey Taylorce1, Apparently you missed this question:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
So if you see a 350-400 class Bull at 200yds and know you can't get closer, how will you feel about the decision to take the 30-30?

quote:

Originally posted by Taylorce1:
My personal limit on elk is I will not use a bullet diameter smaller than .277 caliber or a bullet weighing less than 150 grains. ...

Uuuuhh..., how many ft# do you think that Cartridge/Bullet combination "typically" has at 400yds?
-----

Limited Experience, a lack of Ballistics knowledge and poor Shot execution result in many wrong conclusions. ... Hot Core

quote:

Hey Taylorce1, Apparently you missed this question:

quote:
Originally posted by Hot Core:
So if you see a 350-400 class Bull at 200yds and know you can't get closer, how will you feel about the decision to take the 30-30?



quote:
Originally posted by Taylorce1:
My personal limit on elk is I will not use a bullet diameter smaller than .277 caliber or a bullet weighing less than 150 grains. ...
Uuuuhh..., how many ft# do you think that Cartridge/Bullet combination "typically" has at 400yds?

Well the question is how much practice I've done at 200 yards with the .30-30 and is this the first or last day of the hunt? 200 yards would be out there for a .30-30 but with the right amount of practice I'm sure the shot could be done. You defiantly will not be able to break the shoulders, but a 170 grain bullet with a full on broadside shot should anchor an elk at 200 if the shooter does his/her job. 200 yards is well within the realm of a shot for some pistol hunters why couldn’t it be done with a short rifle.

Remember I live where the elk are and don't spend the money that some people do every year to hunt them. If I was coming from SC like you are no I wouldn't bring a .30-30 to the hunt. If I was just out hunting for the fun of it and not caring if I brought home an animal that season then why not use a .30-30? I try not to take marginaly shots anyway regardless of the caliber I'm using when it comes to elk or any game animal.

As far as your second question what cartridge did I mention? I just gave a bullet diameter and a weight so I have no idea how much energy since I never specified. Uuuuhh...., you tell me what ft lbs I could expect with just bullet weight and diameter and no cartridge to push it. Lots of people out there hunt with a wildcats, so mine would only have to produce 1000# of energy at 100 yards to be legal. For example if I were to hand load a 6.8 Rem Spcl with 150 grain Partition and push it 2000 fps then I could legally hunt with it as it would produce the legal energy requirements and meet my self imposed caliber and bullet weight restrictions. So I would then have a .277 caliber rifle with roughly the same amount of power as a good old .30-30 Win.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
...As far as your second question what cartridge did I mention? I just gave a bullet diameter and a weight so I have no idea how much energy since I never specified...

Excellent point!

Best of luck to you.

Hot Core

Thanks for keeping it . This is what happens to me when my big game hunting season is over too early, I get too far off track sometimes and hijack these threads. I really shoud take up bird hunting so I'd be in the field more and on here less.

I wonder if I could get away with hunting ducks and geese with the .30-06 as long as I used all copper bullets. Of course I'd keep it to head shots only and make sure there was a proper back stop.

Hope your hunting season last longer than mine.

Your welcome.

I saw earlier this year where KY has "some" Public Hunting Land restricted to Non-Toxic Shot for Doves. Pitiful!

I've hunted with city slickers with the best equipment and cowboys that put a lot of time in the GREAT OUTDOORS, Damn few could consistantly place a bullet beyond 200 or 250 yards with a leaning rest.

One day I witnessed 7 or 8 good ole Colorado boys jump off their horses an off handed unload their rifles at a buck, down hill, at about 150 yards. When the smoke cleared that deer walked away. They did make him jump once or twice.

Of course that was 37years ago and I'm sure the shooting breed has improved some what. roger

bartsche,

I'll bite since I know you are .
I know guys who can consistently knock down 300m torso sized silhouettes with the little bitty M16 from a prone position without optics. So why would it be unreasonable for a practiced shooter to do any different at 400 yards on a target the size of an elk? Sure a .30-06 has more recoil but I know people could learn to shoot it well from a number of different field positions.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
bartsche,

I'll bite since I know you are .
I know guys who can consistently knock down 300m torso sized silhouettes with the little bitty M16 from a prone position without optics. So why would it be unreasonable for a practiced shooter to do any different at 400 yards on a target the size of an elk? Sure a .30-06 has more recoil but I know people could learn to shoot it well from a number of different field positions.

i shot 10 for 10 at the 500 yard line at the USMC KD range every year i qualified.
that was with iron sights and a rifle that rattled inside.
no big deal, i felt.
still, the paper targets not gonna limp away to die an agonizing death w/ a bullet through its guts if you fail to hit your mark.

quote:

i shot 10 for 10 at the 500 yard line at the USMC KD range every year i qualified.
that was with iron sights and a rifle that rattled inside.
no big deal, i felt.
still, the paper targets not gonna limp away to die an agonizing death w/ a bullet through its guts if you fail to hit your mark.

I know those 500 yard targets are pretty big, but you have had the training and spent the time learning to shoot that far. What makes you loose your confidence to shoot an elk at that range? I'm not saying that an average hunter can make those kind of shots. The hunter taking these kind of shots needs to have spent the hours at the range working on loads and techniques to do this. A .30-06 with optics and a bi-pod in the hands of a box of ammo shooter a year has no business shooting beyond the 200 yards a lot have mentioned.

I just feel that if you have spent the time learning to shoot your rifle a 300 yard shot on elk should be pretty easy. 400 yards is not beyond the capabilities of an 06 in the hands of a skilled shooter. I live in areas where 200 yard shots are more of a normal occurrence, sure I've shot game inside 200 yards plenty of times. I've shot game outside of 200 yards plenty of times as well.

I'd have a hard time shooting a deer at 150 yards off hand as well with my 06. Get me down in a kneeling, sitting, or prone position, well that deer would be in my freezer. Off hand is a shooting position that I rarely practice, because even using a sling I'm still not that comfortable with it.

quote:

I know those 500 yard targets are pretty big,

the 500 yard target at the KD range is equak to 1/2 the width of the front sight at that distance.
pehaps with a scope it would seem big, but, i assure you it is like aiming at bottlecap at 100 yards with iron sights.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
...I'd have a hard time shooting a deer at 150 yards off hand as well with my 06. Get me down in a kneeling, sitting, or prone position, well that deer would be in my freezer. Off hand is a shooting position that I rarely practice, because even using a sling I'm still not that comfortable with it.

While I wait for barrels to cool during the summer, I do a lot of Off-Hand shooting with a 22LR Marlin 880SS Bolt Action. The trigger needed a bit of Tuning on that Model, but the new Marlin Trigger might not need a thing.

Set a few soda pop cans out at 100yds, ease into the Hasty Sling and set the cans to dancing. A couple of my old buddies enjoy this as much as I do and have tried to Out Equipment me by getting some fairly snazzy 22LRs. But the old Marlin does right well.

Should you decide to try it, if you are dead on at 25yds, most of the Standard Velocity promotional ammo is about 6"-7.5" low at 100yds.

Best of luck to you.

First and formost are conditions, weather can ruin the best of shooting but personally I'd say 300 to 400yds under Vgood conditions and the ability to hit where you aim at that distance.