Anyone seen one of these new offerings by Ruger yet or are they sometime in the future to show up?? A lot of speculation about going up from the 375 bore, but Ruger went to the smaller size as in 300RCM and 338RCM. Who'd a thunk it??

it didnt suprise me very much. i, like many i'm sure, was really hoping for some smaller bore rounds with the 375 Ruger simply necked down without shortening the case, but, short mags are popular. i got a 300 right when they came out and i love the round. however, until these magic powders become available to the handloaders, the RCM's will fall short of the WSM's. now funny you posted this, cause I was about to...but what I can't wait for is these super powders to hit the shelves, and stuff them in the larger capacity WSM case! should blow the RCM's away!

Well, you may be correct, you may not be correct, for the short magnums are a dismal failure in sales of firearms. Have friends in distributor system and they are offering all sorts of incentives to dealers to purchase short magnum rifles. Sales are dismal to say the least.
After the initial introduction and observations many ask the basic question as to Why?? What's the point??
I have no problem with mfg.'s introducing new rounds, calibers, etc., but if anyone can pull it off wil probably be Ruger. If memory serves me correctly, Winchester is a failure, Remington sold out to Bushmaster(might be a good move for they are a quality driven firm and hard core group in most respects)and pretty much leaves Ruger with very broad product line, quality for the money paid, and service second to none. No, would not believe anyone is going to blow Ruger away, quite the contrary, Ruger will survive with solid future ahead of them. Might want to consider buying their stock. Any other mfg's of firearms that you can buy stock in the USA?? Think about it.

I get what you're saying. I was speaking more on the handloading aspect with the new powders on the wsm vs rcm case as far as speeds. FWIW I just looked up the figures on the 300 RCM after I posted, and the RCM is pretty much dead on with the WSM's, so would I be right in figuring the same powders, but with more capacity, would make the WSM faster?

Yes, would think that you are correct. I just believe that Ruger has more staying power than most and will "force the market..." more than others. It seems somewhat of a switch for Ruger to offer the smaller bore sizes when all the pundents were putting forth a 416 Ruger, 425 Ruger, etc. and then they turn around and come out with the smaller bores. Would imagine their market folks have seen the sales will take place in the .308-338 range. Direct attack on Winchster 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag. Much larger market than bore size larger than 338. Don't know the percentage, but those owning and shooting more than .338 has to be quite small compared to those less than 338.
Short,compact, heavy recoiling rifle is not what I would opt for myself, but to each his own(length of case does not equate to recoil as compared to powder charge/weight of bullet.) I am more from the old school and prefer the 375HH which pretty much covers the "water front..." no matter what part of the globe you might find yourself. It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks!! Hope you have a Merry Christmas. ( I know, old school, but frankly I don't give a damn!!)

I have not been a fan of the short magnum thing. How ever , if I could get to talk to the boys at ruger I would ask for a cartridge buit expressly for the #1 as a long range deer lope cartridge.
My choice would be a quarter bore.
If need be for the sake of liability
put it in a case with a large rim that takes it out of consideration for a bolt action.
But really any of the short mag cases would do.
I would want a 28 inch tube.
Man that would be new capability.
I think It should be faster than the .257 weatherby , and remember in a #1 you can make the case longer if you want , say somewhere beetween the .375 Ruger and the RCM.
A 100 grain barnes tripple shock at speed in the 3800 FPS mark and or 115 grain in the 3650 range would excite the hell out of me.
...tj3006

I like the short mags, for no other particular reason then they're different. Mine killed well, shot VERY well, and suited me well. Had to sell it to make rent on hard times, but I'll have another. I still think a lot of folks get the misconception that when something new comes out you're supposed to trade in ol' thumper for the new whiz bang round. I see it more in the lines of being in the market for a new gun, now you have more choices. Staying power....well that one can only be decided in one way, and thats time lol. I think the WSM's will be with us for quite some time personally. The sales might not be stellar, but what I DO see, is more and more rifle models being so chambered, nearly every major manufacturer carrying them, and most importantly in MY mind - new loads being commercially available each year. The 270 and 300 I think will be the ones that we can buy for years to come. The SAUM's are already pretty much dead except for wildcatters (I'd like a 6.5 SAUM, the shorter case and longer neck would make a better base for a 25 or 26 caliber wildcat IMO) The 7mm WSM was a miss for sure, and the 325 I think shall be fully eclipsed by the 338 RCM just on the fact that Americans trust a 338 more then 8mm.

OH! and BTW I have no problem with old school haha. One of my planned purchases this year is a CZ550 in 9.3x62

A few things that catch my eye when I look at the 338 RCM is that it should have better ballistics than the 338-06 in a short action, lacks the rebated rim of previous short mags, and has a wider selection of bullets available when compared to the 325 WSM or 350RemMag. Hornady also reports that it will fit one extra round in the magazine when compared to the WSM's if that means anything to you. The edge on the 338-06 should be available even to handloaders I would think. Sounds to me like a sensible cartridge that will provide a superb balance between portablity and power without causing excessive recoil. At first, I thought that Ruger missed the boat and should have just necked down the 375 Ruger, but taking a second look I have changed my opinion. What would a full length 300 or 338 Ruger offer over the 300 or 338 Winchesters? You loose the belt, but would you really gain much performance. They still fit the same action length as well. In the shorter variety, I believe it will be easier to find a niche role without competing in a true head to head comparison with the Winchesters; though they are sort of being marketed that way. Also, Ruger gains a shortmag without having to deal with the Jamison factor.

Hondo's last line I think really hits on something! It also makes sense as to why they pulled the WSM's out of their line up recently. Everyone speculated it was because of the Jamison problems....but all along it might have been about the RCM's! I kinda wonder about this extra round in the mag though. At .532, its still the same diameter of a belt on standard mags. From what I've seen, when a rifle is made in 300wsm and win mag, they usually hold the same amount of rounds. Now, if Ruger is making a deeper mag well...it makes sense.

My distaste for the short mag,s is not based on performance, Nor would I turn my nose up at a gift of a short mag rifle,
I just don't see any reason for them.
I supose there is some advantage . you can have a slightly lighter rifle with slightly less recoil.
My model 70 .338 win is a load to haul around, but the same cartridge chamberd in a ruger hawkeye hauls around prety easy.
On my other post about my hoped for .257 mag of some kind, I gave my example of a cartridge that gives new capability.
Without new capability why bother spending all the money required for R&D tooling up advertising and all. adds up to quite a bit.
In the case of the SAUM remingtons the money was a complete waste.
believe me there is a chunk of that loss in the price of every remington product you buy.
Different just to be different does not apeal to me.
Differnt that includes better.
Now you got somthing...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by steve4102:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dsiteman:
the short magnums are a dismal failure in sales of firearms. Sales are dismal to say the least.
.

That's very interesting. The 300WSM and the 270WSM are two of the biggest sellers around here.

It is good to hear that there are sales in your area, but from what I have been told the sales overall are less than desired and can say that at the local Gander Mtn. store they are discounted fair amount to generate sales I would assume. With the soon to be announced "reawakening..." of Winchester that may well increase sales overall. One can always hope.

PS Might be too early to do so, but perhaps can verify sales via ATF records. Usually a couple years behind, but the data is out there if you look long enough. Usually listed by mfg. and caliber I believe. Some years ago reviewed this data and a lot of myths were dispelled rather quickly as to who sold the most,etc.

As we all know Ruger has not manufactured any rifles in WSM since the lawsuit fees associated with them. Yet, they are working very hard along with Hornady developing their own line of "Short" fat cartridges. If the market is so "dismal" as you put it, then why is Ruger working so hard for a piece of that pie? Seems that they would be better off sticking to the old favorites and stay away from the shorties.

Now my next question is...will other manufacturers see the RCM line as a way to deal with the Jamison factor? Hornady also seems to make an argument that it is easier to chamber the RCM's than the WSM because of the lack of modifications needed to get them to feed properly. It does seem to me that it would be easier to get them to feed properly when compared to the fatter rebated WSM's, but I am not a gunsmith and can't state this as fact. Steve Hornady did make some interesting observations in his Guns&Ammo interview. By the way, for those that haven't read the RCM article, it is available online.

Well, as I eluded to in my earlier posts, Ruger may well be able to pull it off due to marketing ability whereas the others have not done so to date. Winchester produces a "short" cartridge, Remington makes and attempt, but both are under new or no management/out of business as we speak??? I personally see no real advantage in the offering by Ruger compared to the 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag and will probably take a number of years before it becomes any sort of standard cartridge if at all. Again I believe if anyone will pull it off it would be Ruger. '06 and 375HH both make the others look like upstarts when you consider their time of service and overall world acceptance. Believe Ruger will soon announce the larger bore version of the present 375 Ruger and there with the ability to utilize the '06 or std. length action, it is logical/practical to do so. As to making a short, short action, why??? Perhaps I just have more faith in Ruger than some, but time will tell.

Seems to me like I see a lot of WSM's at the range, so don't know about dismal sales. I don't believe from what I saw that the RCM will outdo a stout loaded .338-06. Why won't someone build the .338-06? and 9.3x62?

Considering that the 338 RCM has a slight case capacity advantage over the 338-06 it should at least equal any 338-06 loadings and do it with less pressure or slightly exceed it velocities.
Though we are talking about only a .9 grain difference, but who knows how the short case geometry changes the comparison. That being said the reports I have seen so far have the 338 RCM averaging real close to 2700fps with 225gr Hornady SST's out of a 20" barrel. Those are pretty impressive numbers, but they do utilize the Hornady Pixie Dust loading so take it for it is worth. I do feel the 338-06 and 9.3x62 should have more popularity here in North America. That being said, I find some advatages to the 338 RCM when comparing it to the 338-06 and can't see any drawbacks unless a magazine capacity of 4 isn't sufficient. The 9.3x62 is in another league though; in my opinion.

I love this forum more every day

OK! I'm gonna start from the last points and work back. My personal theory on the commercial failure of the 338-06 is two fold, but tied together. I made this same arguement on the 338 Fed thread. 2 reasons the 338-06 was legitimized and failed, expensive rifles, expensive ammo. You want a total off the shelf 338-06? You're buying a Weatherby, and a V, not a Vanguard. Now you want to feed it? Your ONLY choice is A-Square. So you're looking at a rifle well over 1000$, and ammo well over 50$ a box, and if you look on Midway, its probably a 3 month backorder. The 338 Fed was ALMOST heading down the same path, but Fusion ammo and Ruger and Tikka saved that one.

Overall, yes, I can believe the various shortmags look to be lacking in sales. But, that has a lot to do with where you are at. Lets face it, 75% or better of all the hunters here in NA are white tail hunters, and you simply dont need that level of power. Now step out here to the west where elk are the primary game, with mule deer being combo hunts so you better pack for elk, and a lot of antelope.....go to my local Gander and you'll be hard pressed to find a rifle thats NOT in a WSM (remingtons included) that isnt also chambered in a standard. In fact, you'll easliy find a 3:1 of short mags vs standards. My local Gander and Sportsmans Whorehouse will have Rem, Wins (yup, still some around) Tikka, Sako, Savage, Howa, Browning, CZ and Kimber rifles all in 270 and 300 wsm guaranteed, MAYBE 325wsm. In these rifles, and this is in all honesty here, you will find a few of most models in 30-06, 270 and 25-06, as well as .243 and 7-08, with less 308's. And again, pure honesty here, there are a F E W in 7mm Rem Mag, 300Win and occasionally a 338WM. I look often for deals, so I'm in these stores a lot.

Now, on the used racks, or in pawn shops (again, always on the look out for donor actions) I hardly EVER see a shortmag for sale. However, 7 Rem and 300 Win mags are quite common, and I see more used 338's then new. My particular Gander usually has 5-9 Weatherby mags for sale, usually 300. Now it shouldnt have much to do with recoil, as those who have shot shortmags know the "reduced felt recoil" is hooey. Use a similar amount of powder with the same weight bullet in a usually lighter gun, yea, it kicks. I dont know if its that 1/2lbs weight reduction...who knows. They work and work well, thats never been argued. For whatever reason, they are very popular here.

OH! and I forgot to add one more point. As far as the feeding issue, I think this was more focused on gun makers who tried just to apadt to the WSM's and didnt do R&D. USRAC rifles had reworked magazine followers and feed ramps that made feeding a non-issue. Now I can't speak for the CRF Win 70 classic, but I do remember reading about the standard 70's and the Brownings having work done to make them feed. I never had a single problem with my A-bolt, and will probably buy another.

Hello MileHighShooter,
Lots of the short ones on the shelf, eh?? Well, wonder why that would be. Might want to consider that they were sold to the outlets such as Gander, etc. on very good terms, deals, but if they are still sitting on the racks, sales must be something less than brisk wouldn't you think?? At local outlet, several on separate display racks, stands, etc. but from what I am told sales are very spotty at best. Many fear eventual drop of round and worry about ammo source and I may be mistaken, but can you re-barrel one of these shorty rigs/actions and convert to std. caliber in the future if needed?? I do not know for sure, but have been told tough to do??

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
OH! and I forgot to add one more point. As far as the feeding issue, I think this was more focused on gun makers who tried just to apadt to the WSM's and didnt do R&D. USRAC rifles had reworked magazine followers and feed ramps that made feeding a non-issue. Now I can't speak for the CRF Win 70 classic, but I do remember reading about the standard 70's and the Brownings having work done to make them feed. I never had a single problem with my A-bolt, and will probably buy another.

I'm in agreement with you Mike. We had an open site in at our gun club for about 5 weekend here in Colorado Springs about 400 shooters showed up before season started, about 1/3 had short mags 1/3 standard calibers (non maq) balance had 300mag,338mag,300wby,300RUM,7mag etc. Besides the 300WSM I see alot of 300Wby,30-06. We have one shooter who comes every year to recheck his factory Browning 308 Norma Mag.

Most local guys here have back up rifles that they take along and most times the back up rifle isn't the same caliber. I really don't know what is the best selling caliber but here you can walk in most gun stop and buy a 243,308,300wby,300wsm,30-06,270 then we have the varmit calibers.

I just traded my Browning BAR ShortTrac 300WSM for a CZ Model 3 300WSM last night at Gander Mnt. They gave me a hell of a deal. After the deal was all done I asked them if they were going to have trouble selling my old rifle as it was a WSM and sales are down. The guy laughrd and said "this gun won't last 2 weeks on the rack". We sell the 300WSMs like hotcakes and it is rare that we get a used one.

dsite -

I really hope you dont take any of this as pot stirring lol! If we had just a few standards, what would we discuss all day

But to answer your question as far as a rechamber if by some chance the WSM's dissapeared. But of course! The original short mags are still around, granted scarce, but still here. A rebarrel to 6.5 or 350 Rem Mag would be a matter of a new barrel and nothing more. Do I really see that happening? Well, only time will truly tell. And heck, if the Ruger's DO take off (and thats not a bad thing) I think any WSM could also be rebarreled without trouble.

In my opinion, new rifle cartidges are like Jell-O, there's ALWAYS room! Useful or not, they drive this market, and in doing so will bring us even more premium bullets, better powders, and accuracy that just 20 years ago probably seemed to be a thing of custom rigs with handloads.

I'm sure people said the same thing 60 years ago when the 300 Win Mag was introduced. We already have the 300 H&H why do we need anything else? I openly admit the RSAUM's have 2 feet minus a toe in the grave, and the 7mm WSM can't be far behind. Likely the same fate for the 325wsm (i tel you what though, on the old shortmags.org forum, MANY of the elk hunters there traded many different guns for that new one) just on the bigger then .30 issue in the US. We'll see what happens with the RCM's. However, I have a decent feeling the 270 and 300 will be with us for a while. Is it better? No. Is it ground breaking? No. Does it get the job done? Oh hell ya! Are there a LOT of popular rifles currently chambered? You betcha.

I'm lovin this thread, so please keep contributing lol we'll never change each others opinion, but it sure is fun to try

If my memory is right the 300mag came out in 1963 was alot of talk about the new mag Win was coming out with alot figured it be the 30-338 mag. Big disappointment for the 300mag was the short neck. 308 Norma mag came out in 1960 same year I enlisted. Fred Huntington wildcated the 30-338 mag in 1958 same year 338 mag came out and Rem chambered the 40x in 30-338mag later. You also had the 300Wby and 300 H&H so if you look from the mid 60's hasn't really be any new 300 mags, out side of the 30-378Wby and 300RUM. I understand change is hard took me about 30yrs before I'd get a 300mag and I've started over 45yrs ago shooting the 300H&H,300 Nomra Mag and I still shoot these today 300Wby and 30-338mag, retired the 300 H&H. I have a hard time understand how any shooter can dislike a caliber so much as the WSM line and some are pleased if it fails just to say I'm right. I'm not going to post on this subject anymore just seems stupid having to justify a caliber.

the manufacturers cannot live on sales of existing cartridges in existing models. Who would trade in their five year old Ruger 77 in 30-06 for a new one just like it? Generally speaking, new shooters buy off the used rack, unless they are steered into the latest golly-gee whiz-bang whomper by a well meaning friend. All of my nephews and nieces have come to me to talk buying a new rifle because I have seen many calibers come and go, and have owned a lot of them. I tell them they might not live long enough to make all the mistakes I have, so ask me. I tell them two things:
1. Never buy a cartridge you (I) can't reload for.
2. Never buy a cartridge younger than you are, unless you can justify the use over an older, proven design.

Niece Jessica in point: bought her a Ruger Tang Safety Mannlicher stocked carbine in 243 last summer. Found her a 100gr SP load that grouped in 1.25" at 100 yards, and zeroed at 200, shot under 2" for 5 shots. Two mule deer bucks and one cow elk with four rounds over two seasons, anybody here doing any better taking themselves out on public ground with anything else? Didn't think so...so a fifteen year old girl with her 243 has a near perfect record on big game in Oregon. And over thirty coyotes the last two winters.

Newer is only better if it's better! Write that down.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

When the 243 was introduced, did it replicate the performance of some older cartridges and eventually replace those? Fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it, enough people actually gave the upstart 243 a chance when it was introduced and it is available today for your niece to shoot. I keep wondering...If I have can have 338-06 performance in a short action without any percieved drawbacks, why have the long action? Are there any advantages to having a long actioned 338-06 instead of the 338 RCM design? I do not ask these questions in an attempt to be flippant. I just can't see a reason to kill the RCM series off before it is even born.

MileHighShooter,
As you say, not to stir the pot, but the example of the defunct 6.5 and 350 Remington cartridges may not be the very best example! Again, my whole point from the beginning is/was that the current offerings by both Winchester and Remington can not claim to be a great success in the market place and if anyone can pull it off with these "shorty" rounds it will probably be the folks at Ruger. Rest of them have either sold out, gone via Winchester, merged as with Remington and even Marlin, etc.

the 30 cal offers a 180 at 2900. whats the difference between that and a 30-06?
exept for ammo thats double the price.

Good points everyone!

KStephens - If i recall right though, that 2900FPS is in a 20" barrel out of the RCM...where thats a 24" in the '06. The RCM's are offering the same numbers, with much less gun. I'm still waiting for these magic powders to hit shelves so the rest of us can buy them too! Should make for interesting loadings all around. I'm sure its also these powders that get 150gr pills in the 30 T/C to match 30'06 speeds out of a shorter then .308 case

Well, the 300 RCM does have about a 5 grain capacity increase over the 30-06 so it stands to reason that there should be a higher performance level (or less pressure at equal performance). Will this boost on paper mean squat in the on-game department; probably not. Look at this another way though. There will be performance levels between the 30-06 and the 300 WSM, but you don't have the long action of the ought-six or the rebated-rimmed fat case of the WSM. What would the masses say to a 25 RCM or 6.5 RCM? In my opinion, I would have considered entering the short market with a 25 RCM and a 338 RCM. Those two would be unique factory rounds that would give a good low recoil mountain rifle and handy thumper option respectively. The 300 RCM I think will have a tougher road to hoe. I will end with another question. Do y'all think manufactureres other than Ruger would be willing to chamber the RCM's to not have to deal with the Jamison/WSM royalties? Is this issue a big deal to the arms makers?

While I had my thinking (or idiot) cap on I thought of another combo that would be appealing to me. That would a trim model 77 RSI or frontier chambered for 45 RCM. In the Smoky Mountain bottoms that I hunt, this would make a superb handling thumper that could kill anythings that roams this region with grim efficiency. Maybe I just am going all Boomstick when I look at the possiblities for this case, but that isn't such a bad thing

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Good points everyone!

KStephens - If i recall right though, that 2900FPS is in a 20" barrel out of the RCM...where thats a 24" in the '06. The RCM's are offering the same numbers, with much less gun. I'm still waiting for these magic powders to hit shelves so the rest of us can buy them too! Should make for interesting loadings all around. I'm sure its also these powders that get 150gr pills in the 30 T/C to match 30'06 speeds out of a shorter then .308 case

ok, so lets say thats true and Hornady starts selling thier magic powders that allow the RMC to reach that velocity in a 20" tube.
whats to keep me from using that powder in a 30-06 w/ a 20" tube?
If the only way to compare the round is w/ factory ammo then i really dont see the use.
if the powder does become avail to mere mortals for loading then i can still use it for other orunds.
its the same mystery powder thats getting the 308 express up to 2650 w/ a 160 gr pill right?
so i'd guess a 160 from a 308win with that ought to be good up to around 2800 from a carbine.

my point is whats the real advantage?
300 ruger short mag isnt gonna produce more than 150 pounds of energy more than an -06 w/ the same barrel length at average kill distances.
whats an extra 150 pounds over the grass? .4" flatter trajectory w/ a 250 yard zero?

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
It is good to hear that there are sales in your area, but from what I have been told the sales overall are less than desired and can say that at the local Gander Mtn. store they are discounted fair amount to generate sales I would assume. With the soon to be announced "reawakening..." of Winchester that may well increase sales overall. One can always hope.

PS Might be too early to do so, but perhaps can verify sales via ATF records. Usually a couple years behind, but the data is out there if you look long enough. Usually listed by mfg. and caliber I believe. Some years ago reviewed this data and a lot of myths were dispelled rather quickly as to who sold the most,etc.

Who told you that sales overall are less than desired? The Winchester Short Magnums are selling like crazy up here. I've seen the numbers myself due to a privileged position, since the WSM rounds have been released they've been close to .30-06 and .270 in terms of registration numbers, and in several instances, they've exceeded them. The Remington rounds did poorly in comparison. But hey, those are only the cross Canada numbers.

The Ruger rounds might do okay, but since the "magic powder" used to achieve the advertised velocities isn't available to handloaders and the WSM rounds have already a sizable market share and are chambered in a large number of rifles, Ruger faces an uphill battle in the short magnum arena. They tried to find a niche in an oversaturated market.

Hondo -
I agree with you! I would have loved to see some off beat calibers on the RCM case, such as a 257 or 264, and a 358!! I think Rem's original shorties didnt fare well due to the rifles they were chambered in. Too short to make velocity, or too light leading to a real shoulder slapper. But dont worry, I'm sure as soon as brass is out, there will be wildcats in every caliber from 22 to 45 lol

Kstephens -
Nothings to stop you! If you read one of my firsts posts on the upper part of this thread, I made the same general comment. I want these super powders in the larger capacity 300wsm case! Or even a .308, this might really make it the equal of the 30-06 pound for pound, not an "almost kinda there with lighter bullets". Now I'm sure you CAN stick these in even larger cases, but something tells me these particular powders are more of a burn rate for use in smaller capacity cases. Heck we see that with powders now, big cases do best with powder X, and smaller cases do best with powder Z.

Now you ask whats the advantage? There isnt one, frankly. Neither was there with the WSM's, or the SAUM's, or the RUM's, or the Dakota's, or the STW's, or frankly probably about 75% of all current production rounds, and probably even more wildcats. Advantage has nothing to do with it, never has. I really dont see any new round as someone saying trade in your trusty, well hunted and proven rifle. However, people are constantly looking for and buying NEW rifles to add to their armory. This, is why I love all these new rounds coming out. It gives you a chance to get on boards like this, and have these kinds of discussions, and really put some thought into your new rifle. Its a chance to try something new!

i suspect that these powders do thier magic by being coated w/ a inhibitor of some sort to slow initial burn down. i wouldnt want anything to do with them.
what if the coating deteriorates or comes off over time. whats that going to do to pressure and reliability. what if the coating settles into the bottome of the case?

no thanks.
ill stick to 4895 and the 308 and 30-06.

It is always interesting to read these short cartridge vs. old cartridge debates.

The last rifle I bought a month ago was a 30-06, so you can see my (old school?) bias.

My only concerns with the short rounds are magazine capcity and feeding, both of which are fundamentally more of a potential problem than the longer, skinnier old rounds. I don't know if they are in practice problems, though.

There seems to be this constant desire to get another 50 or 100 feet/sec out of some round or another, in a short barreled little pea-shooter, but on the flip side I hear all the whining about too much recoil! Is that inconsistent? And according to my chronograph there is as much as 50 to 100 fps variance in the same handloads!

If you really want more velocity, go all the way and buy 375 RUM cases and neck them down to any diameter that you believe is the magic caliber.

Most of the weight to be theoretically saved by shorter actions can be saved by slimmer barrel profiles, where most of the weight is anyway. Or having plastic stocks. Or buying a Browning semi-auto that doesn't weigh anything to begin with, has no recoil, and is quite accurate as far as I can tell!!

A lot of options, including the short cases, I guess. But I don't believe that they have any magic powers, as the rag writers have never seen a gun or cartridge they didn't like.

Just to confuse things, I did hear that CZ is going to bring out a rifle chambered in 338-06.

Just keep buying something, to preserve the industry!

Another answer to a question that wasn't asked. I'd rather have a full length .338 Ruger, kind of a stepped up .338 WM in a light standard action.

I have a "stepped up 338"...It's called the 338 Remington Ultra Magnum and I darned sure don't want any part of it in any rifle that weighs less than 7lbs. The RCM rifles itself looks like it would be a great rifle just to sling onto a shoulder and carry for a hike. I really do think that Ruger should market a mountain rifle version with a 24" light contour barrel and lightweight kevlar stock; a Kimber clone. If Ruger had just necked down the 375 case to 338, would be people actually have bought it or would they bash it as doing nothing superior to the Winchester. I think it would be a poor strategy to try to go head to head against the 338 Winchester in an apples vs. apples comparison. Look at the RCM rifle that is being marketed. It sure doesn't look like the average 338 Winchester or 300 ____. That RCM rifles has easy totin' woods rifle written all over it. They seem perfect for the shooter that wants a "Magnum" 308 Win, 338 Fed, or 358 Win. That rifle/cartdidge combo seems to fill the niche between the true magnums and the standard short actions in the most sensible way released to date, in my opinion. Will it succeed? I don't know.