I have a Blue G2 contender with a 23" barrel in 30-30. I am contemplating rechambering to 30-30 AI or 309 JdJ. Is it worth the increase in ME and velocity?

I need some resident experts that have one, or the other (or all three)to chime in on the pros and cons. It's a nice, light, quick handling gun but I would like to get more out of it.

Question:
What would you choose? How much more ME/Vel. would I pick up with the AI or JdJ assuming a 165 grain bullet? I would consider the 150 gr. also if the increase was significant enough. 200-400FPS.

Choices:
Leave it alone as a standard 30-30
Rechamber to 30-30 AI
Rechamber to 309 JdJ

 

Don't think you will get 200 fps increas with either. I had a .309 in pistol form and enjoyed it, but think a standard .30-30 would have woorked fine also. There is a fella that posts on several forums named Bobby Tomek who can give you a lot of information on the .30-30AI. If he isn't on here, check Specialty pistols forum. My personal thought is that the standard version works pretty well, and Iwould look at rechamber costs and die costs before jumping to get it rechambered.

While I voted the 309 if it were mine I would leave it alone.

The AI "MIGHT" get you 75-100fps. It is normally loaded to a higher pressure. Assuming you load both to the smae pressure more like 50fps.

The JDJ case is around 50% larger and loaded to 5000psi higher pressure. So 300+ fps their websight will probably call it more.

If you feel your really need 200-400fps the JDJ would get you there the AI will not.

I know how Bobby Tomek would vote on this one. If you are seriously considering the AI chamber I'd talk to him. I've only shot the .30-30AI my buddy had in pistol form and was able to hit a prairie dog around 200 yards with a 125 grain NBT. He took his pronghorn at a little over 200 with the pistol. Needless to say I was impressed with the performance out of a 14" barrel.

I do know he formed all his brass from .375 Win. Said it was a little tougher and he got longer life from it. He shoots the .309 JDG now or did the last time I talked to him.

The primary advantage of the 30-30 AI in the Contender is that its case shape is MUCH better suited to the single shot action. Correctly formed, cases last indefinitely and do not need the frequent trimming as more tapered versions such as the parent 30-30 round.

I have both a 23" and 24" Contender barrel in the AI format. With 150 grain bullets, I can safely approach 2600 fps, and pressures are mild. One particular batch of brass has now seen 7 loadings in addition to the FF. Other than a trim to square things up after the initial fireforming, these cases have not been trimmed and have not been full-length sized, either. Primer pockets are snug, and cases simply fall out of the chamber upon firing.

Given good handloads, a standard 30-30 in your 23" barrel can safely reach 2375 fps with 150 grain bullets -- and that's plenty for most hunting applications, especially with a bullet such as the Ballistic Tip. But once you start to approach max loads, count on trimming the brass after virtually every firing. It's a personal choice whether or not the additional fps are worth it. Since you have the standard chamber, the 'smith work and shipping will put you right or even over at the cost of a true custom barrel, so I'd likely leave it as-is.

As to the 309 JDJ, it does offer more thump, but it does so at the expense of 12-15 grains more powder, and if you are not careful, you can easily reach the red-zone of Contender safety without even knowing it.

For me, the 30-30 AI gives me positive deer-killing potential out to 300 yards, which is about as far as I'll ever pull the trigger on a big game animal anyway. And it does just fine on varmints as well.

I can bump the velocity to 2804 fps with the 125 grain BT using 33.5 grains H4198 in my 24" barrel, but it does not offer any real-world advantage in terms of trajectory for my usage. Therefore, in my blued barrel, I have elected to stick with the 150 grain BT ahead of 38 grains of Varget for 2577 fps (38.5 grains Varget with the 150 grain Ballistic Silvertip duplicates its performance in my rig). In the 23" SS tube, I am shooting 41 grains of H380 with the 150 grain BT. This load is compressed and may not work in a short-chambered barrel, but it is superbly-accurate and produces just over 2500 fps. (The above are 30-30 AI loads and NOT suitable for the standard 30-30 Winchester. If you decide to try them, all applicable warnings should be heeded.)

EDITED to ADD: The velocities listed were taken at 15 feet and were not corrected to actual MVs.

Alot to be said for a standard 30/30 Winchester barrel. Ammo & componets are about as inexpensive as it gets and plentiful, too, recoil isn't to speak of and generally a great plinker of hunting rifle - if you know your limitations and where to plunck 'em.

But either the Encore or the Contender are key here since you can do alot with the ammo that cannot be done in a lever-action. Also you can wring a tad more out of your "custom" (read=reloaded) ammo than standard ammo and the AI version would add a tad more. IMO that puts this combo (Contender-30/30AI) right on the heels of a vanilla-flavored .308 Winchester which ain't a bad place to be either.

Yeah, I'm the 1 Guy who voted for a 30/30 Winchster AI ..... I'm looking into my glass Ball and I see ...... Barnes 130 gr. TTSX's ..... a stiff load of IMR 3031 ..... a Lee Factory Crimp Die ..... perhaps some nickel plated cases ...... ?

Have Fun with your decision.

Gerry-

The 130 grain TTSX shot beautifully in my 30-30 AIs, but the terminal performance in expansion media was very disappointing.

If you want a lightr bullet, the 125 grain BT would get my vote.

quote:

The 130 grain TTSX shot beautifully in my 30-30 AIs, but the terminal performance in expansion media was very disappointing.

If you want a lighter bullet, the 125 grain BT would get my vote.

Tommy,

O.K., Pal, I believe you - obviously, the Barnes bullet pic & your bullet test results speak for themself.

Like my 7x57R; many of the "classic" cartridges oftenmost don't require a premium bullet anyway to do the deed. I tried the 120 gr. Barnes TSX's in the 7x57R and went straight back to my trusty 140 gr. Sierra GameKings; no reason to switch a winning Team. It's not that the Barnes' didn't work. Simply the Sierras worked better at the muzzle velocity in the stubby barreled single-shot 7x57R.

Anyway, I'm watching this thread with interest because my Short List sees an Encore in the very near future and my two starter barrels are gonna be a 22 K-Hornet & a 30/30 Winchester AI; that can do double-duty as hunters & inexpensive shooters, too.

Great info gentlemen. I'm more undecided than ever though! The JdJ is beginning to sound like a lot of work, though the price I got from SSK was $95 for the rechamber, $68 for the dies and $20 for shipping so 183.00 for the whole conversion. Then I have to scare up some 444 marlin cases, etc. The price I got from SSK for a new barrel was just under $400.00

Has anyone used the Hornady LeveRevolution 160's in a standard 23" TC barrel in 30-30?

quote:

The JdJ is beginning to sound like a lot of work

Both require a reamer, rechamber, new dies the JDJ simply uses more powder. Cost are going to be pretty much the same.

Actually, there is a cost difference depending on your choice of dies. Lee 30-30 AI FL dies are $28-30. A set of JDJ dies runs $68 unless they've gone up (been a couple years since I checked).

I primarily use a Redding neck die, so that negates any savings on 30-30 AI vs. .309 JDJ dies.

I do have the Lee set but have yet to use it. Just my .02...

Safety and NOT hotrodding your poor little Contender should be the main focus. If you think you need more than you're getting out of that combo and still want to do the singleshot thing you should be considering an Encore that's built to handle higher performing cals. You want to sneak up on .308 performance? Just get yourself a .308 and be done with it. I considered all the hotrod options and guru recommendations over the decades and it just seemed the increase wasn't much and they were just trying to sell their stuff and complicating your life and decreacing the fun factor for THEIR gain, not your.

Bobby Tomek: If you do uses 375 Win cases to make 30-30 AI cases what are the steps that you uses to form them?

The 30-30 AI has a mystique about it and certainly an increase in velocity, the amount of which is also full of "mystique". What you actually end up with depends on a ton of factors.

There are a BUNCH of cases that I think might have better overall characteristics that can and HAVE been wildcatted to use in lever and break action pistols and rifles...everything from the 348/WSM/RSUM/444M cases at ~80 gr case capacity down to several in the ~50 plus cc like the 30 leverpower, 307, 308, 30-40, 303 including AI'ed versions, and the newer offerings like the 308 Marlin Exp that offer increased performance in a standard, fairly readily available package...PLUS some of the older wildcatted black powder rimmed cases that I guarantee will light up your life.

I've seen some chamberings in the Contender that end up with mighty thin chamber walls that I wouldn't touch with YOUR hand, that seem to work OK because the user knew what the HE** and why.

All you have to do is look at the OEM Contender chamberings and pick a case and pressure that the Contender will handle...discuss the project with a known, knowledgeable 'smith or person that has experience with the cases you happen to pick...make a decision and do it...it's not hard to do, just takes money and you "should" end up with a very usable shooter.

Dennis Bellm's offerings are excellent and a highly qualified and knowledgeable T/C man and has been around for a very long time...I've used his services several times over the past ~40 odd years and ALL my Encores and Contenders have his hinge pins and trigger parts installed. And...he will make your shooter into a bugholer at the same time.

Bobby Tomek gives you his actual and visual perceptions which gives one food for thought...and shows you what you can expect under similar circumstances. For one not wanting to get too far afield in the wildcatting world, he shows you how easy it is, what to expect pictorially and a very quick way to get there, but there are several factory chamberings that will do the same thing...choices always give me headaches sometimes.

Bottom line is you can buy an already chambered barrel from T/C, SSK or several other companies, chambered for a more powerfull STANDARD cartridge, almost as cheap as having a 30-30AI rechamber...arguably...the standard 30-30 has plenty of powder for most game...the AI'ed version DOES have it's "bragging rights" thing...arguably...with todays powders and pointy bullets you would be surprised just how much hair you can put on the ol' thutty-thutty.

Do some more searching and don't limit youself or just do it, but use a 'smith with a track record with the T/C or NEF style of receiver...all it takes is a tiny hiccup and the chamber could be wasted unless you understand or learn HOW to work with an overlength, oversized chamber.

Most people I've known in the past that have done a 30 Leverpower or 30-30 AI were extremely happy with their toys...I wanted a 30 Leverpower at one time, way back, but never got around toit...I ended up using the 308 case and went on up to 35 cal...356 Win...but every time I screw in my standard NEF 30-30 stub barrel I think about rechambering it...I never will because my favorite load gets close to the next size in my rack...a 300 Savage...todays on the shelf 30-30 offerings are no slouches and EVERY gun store has 30-30 ammo...and even though you can shoot standard ammo in a correctly cut AI chamber, you loose velocity...but it still is good to think and dream.

But Hey...wildcatting is ALL good isn't it? Enjoy your project.

Luck

Bobby has about as much or more experience with these as anyone I have seen repeatedly on the boards I visit. Time and time again he has show what they will do.

From my perspective, I shoot the shorter 14" handgun length barrel chambered in the 30-30AI.

I can say that in the past five years I haven't even bothered handloading for it, as it is simply too easy to head by the local sporting goods store and pick up a cheap box of what ever ammo and have a ball.

Most every brand I have run through it in the 150gr range has shot very well to excellent. When your resting on a front bag or even a fanny pack, and can easily squeek out 1.5" groups or less more times than not, it's hard to justify burning up the components just to try and beat it.

I will say that with my 7x30 Waters, and using the 140gr Ballistic Tip out to 283 yards,(my furtherest shot on a deer) it will put the smack down on a deer for sure, with a complete pass through including the offside shoulder. As Bobby mentioned the BT's used with these type velocities are the cat's meow.

I do have to say that when I DID use the Barnes 130gr in my .308 for my grandsons reduced loads we DID get complete expansion or what looked to be as we never found the bullets. That rifle is only a 16.5", and with the reduced loads I had it running only about 2650 or so at max from the muzzle. It did however knock a few fat hogs off their feet out to 200yds when I tested them out before letting him use them, and up close they were pretty awesome. Might have been the shoulders or thick hide but they definitely made a bigger hole coming out than going in.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill6.5:
Safety and NOT hotrodding your poor little Contender should be the main focus. If you think you need more than you're getting out of that combo and still want to do the singleshot thing you should be considering an Encore that's built to handle higher performing cals. You want to sneak up on .308 performance? Just get yourself a .308 and be done with it. I considered all the hotrod options and guru recommendations over the decades and it just seemed the increase wasn't much and they were just trying to sell their stuff and complicating your life and decreacing the fun factor for THEIR gain, not your.

Like I said: I need some resident experts that have one, or the other (or all three)to chime in on the pros and cons. It's a nice, light, quick handling gun but I would like to get more out of it.

At 5.5 pounds it's a delight to carry and I would carry it more if I had more confidence in it's terminal ballistics. I already have other calibers, but they come with the added weight. The Encore is a full 2 pounds heavier.

someone mentioned 7-30 waters. Mine has given me 20 years of fun and it would be a good consideration. VERY accurate. My 14" pistol barrel lovrd the 140 Nos BTs and a rifle would get 'em goin lots faster than a pistol. 100yd with scope=cloverleafs. 250yd 6" gong=impossible to miss. EABCO 7mmBRM would be a good choice, check him out. His stuff is high quality. His stuff, not factory T/C barrels.

Fat_Albert-

I tried using 375 Win brass a few years back and saw no real benefit. The Contender is made for a certain range of pressures (OK, there has variables and a lengthy explanation necessary, but we'll leave it as-is for sake of simplicity), as is 30-30 brass. To me, that indicated a union of the two would be about as close to perfection as you could get -- and for me, it has been.

I have some 7mm BB cases (7mm IR with the neck cut back to give a case length of 1.75") that have seen 24 firings. They are still going strong with tight primer pockets, ample neck tension and have never been annealed. And all loads have been full-power hunting loads.

But to answer your question. First, you need to run it into a FL .375 Win die to remove any imperfections/creases near the case mouth. Otherwise, you may very well ruin the case in sizing it down. I then used a 35 caliber die as an intermediate step and then the appropriate .30 caliber die.

I took it one step farther and went down to 7mm with some .375 Win brass. But the steps get tedious, and like I said, there was no notable benefit.

Bobby...do you know anyone or you that has used the accuracy locking hinge pin being sold by EABCO ? I tried a #1 step up pin from Bellm for my Contender and it wouldn't go in with a sledge so waisted the money. I am considering a EABCO pin for my Encore if they are beneficial. Any feedback ??

leave it as a 30/30.

Just get some Hornady LeverEvolution.

I did. I think I'm going to leave it as is. I might look around for a 7/30 waters barrel.

Back to the OP

308 Bellm should get consideration.

Uses .444 Marlin brass and .308 Win dies.

quote:

Originally posted by 33806whelen:
I have a Blue G2 contender with a 23" barrel in 30-30. I am contemplating rechambering to 30-30 AI or 309 JdJ. Is it worth the increase in ME and velocity?

I'm not an expert by any means, but there was a mention of a rechambering of a 30-30 to 30-40 Krag awhile back.